The Smiley Smile Message Board

I assume this is where to post a question like this - saw in another thread a poster said AGD had been banned?  Is this true?  What's up with that?  I know he gets on people's nerves but we need a good curmudgeon around here.

and actually has some facts to present. There is already enough opinions going around in this place. Unban AGD, NOW!

Should we start a petition?

AGD was banned for a month for making rude remarks towards someone.

Yeah, a real stretch in here. I say, grant the man clemency.

No AGD, No Peace!   :smokin

 :lol

Hey, I didn't say I agree with it. I'd love to have AGD back.

It might pull us out of the black hole of The People vs. Mike Love.

I missed it.  Didn't realize he was gone.  What thread did the written abuse occur?   I wanna see who the abusee was to see if he deserved it.

Here's the thread:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15947

Rocky Raccoon really didn't deserve it, but there didn't seem to be any hurt feelings in the end.

Well, no one deserves it, but a few ask for it and get it. Bring him back and as penance writes "I shall not make rude remarks to dumb-asses" 100 times.

Seriously, for "some kind of special stupid"? Really? Not even a cuss-word? A month? Wow, tough Judge! :)

I didn't make the call but have no beef with it. I think he has two more weeks left on it.

He's spouting on the BB threads on the Hoffman board which is what I did while doing hard time here. ;)

AGD, bring him back!

Just because he's a living Beach Boys encyclopedia doesn't give him free pass to act like a total asshole. Calling somebody "special stupid" over something as simple as a misreading (which was even pointed in previous posts) was "asshole-ish" enough to deserve a few weeks off, in my opinion.

Hopefully he'll come back rested with fresh invectives to hurl our way.  I can't wait!

Calling someone a name is not being an asshole. It's called being irrate. People have been called worse in here with lesser penalty involved. Besides, why is it OK for you to say hes's an asshole ("...act like a total asshole" or "asshole-ish")? Shouldn't you be banned for a month, now? It sounds a helluva lot worse than "total stupid".

He needs to control his emotions better, a BBs historian of his standing shouldn't fight with every random poster he doesn't agree with.

So do a lot of us in here. It doesn't matter what or who he is, we all need to treat each other better. We don't respect each other enough in here. I don't know about you, but once I have an issue with someone in here, I become a bit leery about dealing with them again. It's human nature to get defensive, and in here words are all we have as a way to direct our anger and frustrations.

I don't think it's the same situation. AGD called RockyRacoon stupid for simply misreading a year. I called AGD an asshole because of the way he behaved in that situation (and many, many others, to be honest). But I shouldn't have commented in the first place, since this is none of my business. I just don't like the guy and his attitude pisses me off whenever I read what he has to say (which in many cases = useful information). I guess that's just the way things are, and I'll have to deal with it. I mean, who am I to tell one of the most respected and informed members here how to behave.

Indeed, it is a personal thing. They always are. I don't think everyone's an asshole, just the one's I have issues with. Like you just said, you have no issues with the ban because you don't like him. That's a personal reason. I like AGD and I think it was excessive. I'll say one thing though, I like people who don't pussyfoot around. Who will call me out when I act stupid (and I do act stupid, sometimes). We are getting too sensitive with words. When I was growing up, I was taught a saying that I still follow: "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me". I might get mad in the heat of the moment, but if someone calls me an asshole, I am not going to lose sleep over it.

SMiLE Brian - we know that "emotion control" is not the strong suit, on this forum. Passionate people become passionate and hot under the collar.  Knowing that someone as knowledgeable and researched as Andrew is participating, makes me try at least to do a little investigatory check prior to posting. 

And we've disagreed hotly about many things. No big deal. Reasonable minds can differ. But, I truly respect his scholarship.

A month seems a mite long. 

Sentence commutation?   ;)

While you are exiled a  :beer Smiley brew for Andrew!  :lol

He also made some kind of threat involving a bomb or something toward Phil Cohen. I appreciate the f*** out of everything the guy's done for the fanbase, but that in addition to the great number of outright mean-spirited insults towards several others here kind of crosses a line, to me.

I also remember getting in fights as a kid and saying to the other kid, "I kill you". Or Moe of the Three Stooges saying "I'll Murderlize you". We all say stuff that we have no intention of carrying out. I laugh in here, because when directed at someone else, people say to have a thick skin, but when directed straight at them they take offense.

May I say something about Andrew? He has been a friend, mentor, and basically all around decent guy to me. Honestly he has real heart and I cannot tell you enough how rare that can be in our business.

The difference is, you were a kid and he's a 50 year old man.

Also, no, I never say "Have thick skin" and I wasn't the one being told my house was being bombed, but I still thought it was too much.


I believe it, I just hope from now on he'll cool it with the really mean-spirited insults and threats.

I also hope that we discuss more intelligently in here. You have to admit that some really stupid sh*t goes on in here, and this is why tempers get lost.

I agree completely.

If you can't deal with a message board, just what can you deal with? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Get a grip for Christ's sake. None of this crap is effin rocket science and it sure isn't gonna wipe cancer away. I find the agdster more of a comedian than anything else. It's so damn cool to see his panties bunch up-and you know it's gonna happen sooner than later. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

I dunno...maybe it's me, but I prefer to treat people online how I would treat them in 'real life'.

So, this is why you are here? If we have intelligent, respectful discussions, then we don't have to argue and piss each other off. You have great stuff to add when you stay on topic, but you get so hung up on your bashing of Mike that every thread winds up degenerating. I would just ignore it if it was just a couple of topics, but it goes on in every thread. Hell, you have been banned a few times, yet you persist in the same activity. Quite a few of us have lost our tempers more than once, and most of the name calling comes through frustration from going around in circles.

The brilliant musicians of smiley smile should record a cover of "Brian's back" for AGD's much anticipated return

"They say that Andrew is back
Well i’ve known him for oh so long
They say Andrew is back
Well i never knew that he was gone

Still they say Andrew is back
I know he’s had his ups and downs
They say Andrew is back
But in my heart he’s always been around"

I think this place needs to be taken offline for a week or two. All of us are spending way to much time with each other and need a break. Having this place "taken away" from us might also serve as an effective "warning" of what can happen if we don't respect each other and the rules of this board.

Wrong, OSD. You DID get banned once already for crossing a line when you named ML’s wife and daughter a bunch of whores (and that alone was probably worth way more than just a 1-week ban, so consider yourself very lucky). Whether intentionally or not, with your unorthodox way of posting, you should have been aware that you are taking risks with your continuous negative ML posts.

For all of you here:
It’s very simple: if you decide to post here, we expect that you have read the rules of this board, and that you have the decency to apply to these rules. And even then - despite these rules - we do allow a lot on this board. In fact, if the moderators would strictly follow these rules then we’d probably have (temporary) banned at least 10 more members these last couple of months.

In case you forgot them, I’ve quoted the board’s rules at the end of my post. You’ll see that rules # 2 and 4 (and 5) aren’t always supported by measurable tools. Therefore it’s up to the moderators to make a judgment if a certain member has broken one or more rules, And that judgment doesn’t have to be made on one particular post, but can also be based on a series of posts. So, when it comes to acting on the negative vibe or intentionally derailing on some of the topics (which happens a lot lately), the moderators will see what caused it, who caused it, if it’s crossing a line, and if there’s a pattern.

For instance: AGD got banned for making a rude comment. It might have looked like as this ban happened totally out of the blue, but the sometimes rude personal approach had happened quite a few times before, and this particular post was the last straw, so to speak.
If you call Mike Love a "jackass", because you think he is, fine; it's your opinion, be happy with it. If you decide to post that same message 20 times in a row in different topics, even if the topic doesn't give any reason to spread that message, then it's not fine

On one thing the rules are VERY clear: if you cross a line and a ban is in order, a 1st ban lasts a week, a 2nd ban a month, and a 3rd ban is permanent. If one continues to misbehave, don’t say you didn’t know the potential consequences.

@ OSD:
No, apart from the abovementioned case, you weren’t banned for making your not-so-occasional ML bashing; and that goes for other members here as well. One can be critical here on one of the members of our favorite band. There’s no rule on our board prohibiting that. The recent rumours that the moderators are acting like brianista’s and therefore are threatening anti-Mike viewers with a ban is simply not true.

But in light of – I quote –
you should be aware that your behavior is closely screened. IMO you are on your way to become the next Phil Cohen here. And mean as in “type of behavior”. As you know Phil wasn’t banned for making just one single tiny little negative remark. It was after a process of continuously questioning Beach Boys, management and record company decisions on delaying or not releasing new/unreleased BB-product, which caused a very negative vibe on this board. A similar negative vibe occurs now on several topics regarding the position of behavior of ML (from nowadays or in the past), even if the original poster’s intentions with that topic were totally different (the “BB's at TAGS NY” is good example of that). I’m not saying you’re the only one doing so, but you’re one of them. If you (or someone else) continue to derail topics into a new anti Mike Love statement, you can expect there to be a moment that the moderators decide enough-is-enough.

O and, by the way, telling another member to have a big skin and accept the fact that you would have the right to either ruin or derail his/her potentially good topic, is not an excuse for such behavior. If I (or one of the other mods) notice that your (or someone else’s) behavior is also resulting in several other members – who do have the intention to have a constructive discussion on this board – to leave this board then I will take action.

To close this lecture: we all became members of this board because we are fans of the Beach Boys. We do have different views, sometimes extremely different views, but that makes this board an interesting place for a discussion. We don’t have to agree with each other, as long we can accept each other different points of view, and as long as the bottom line is that we still all have that shared passion for their music. And if we all try to show our respect towards the other fans here, things should go just fine here.

We (moderators) are fans as well. And we don’t like to having to act on unwelcome behaviour. Some of those who were banned I actually respect a lot. I do not ban a member because I want to, or think it’s fun, of because I don’t like that particular member. I do that because it’s necessary to show what the limits are on this board to both the “banned one” and the other members. If I don’t do that, I might as well stop moderating this board at all.

The last time the site was down the membership was rolling around in the fucking fetal position sucking their thumbs wondering where the board went...

That is funny, in an ocean of angst...

You know the drill, Shady...

It's Friday - Smiley Brew day...

Frosty!   :beer

Yes they say Andrew is back
We don't know where he was goin'
So they say Andrew is back
Maybe he went to see Phil Cohen?

 >:D

The board was gone for an hour and I broke out into the cold sweat.  :o

And two   :beer :beer

For you !   :lol

Wow, wasn't he banned twice already? I remember back in May he had an outburst (again) but apologized for his actions. He seems to get angry a lot with people he doesn't agree with for some reason

I don't remember & don't want to remember when & how many bans Mr. Doe had in total. I'm not interested in it, it's moderators' business. I think they did the right decision to stop his arrogant attitude/insults towards the other posters. Just because he's a BBs historian (for that I respect him), doesn't mean he must talk with average people the way he did, yet completely get away with the rules of the board, as if they don't concern him. I'm all for equality & fairness , i.e. either all must be punished for doing the same exact thing or no one. But the reality is, if it were someone else - not Mr. Doe - you'd be all against their behavior, complaining, being angry/strict to them and so on. Sad fact indeed - both in the Internet & in real life.

As for the thick skin, well yes, I agree that everyone needs to have one, but let's not forget that Mr. Doe isn't thick-skinned enough, too. Or else how would you explain that he gets angry for really small & insignificant things?

I'll say this much, in the beginning I used to come here to get away from the stresses that go on in my life. Anymore, many times this place can be just as or more stressful, which just shouldn't be. We supposedly come here to talk about the love that we here have in common with each other. I rarely feel the love. It's more of a bitch-fest about what we don't like. Hell, I'd rather deal with that with people who really don't like the Beach Boys much, or is that exactly what I am doing, hmmm?

You don't really have the right to judge AGD or really anyone on this board, IMO. AGD was never as antagonistic or flame-tastic as you where when you were banned.

I see your point, drbeachboy, but I was talking about Mr. Doe's situation & how fair it was of mods to ban him - it emphasized that rules are for everyone, regardless of status. Of course, I understand that some posters found friends here, have their favorites, gained much respect for somebody etc. but is it that difficult to treat each other equally? For example, I like hypehat, I think he's a very good poster, as well as a good musician. However, that won't stop me from objecting to him if I think he said sth. wrong or harsh. Or another example, oldsurferdude - as most of the Smiley Smilers, I don't favor his endless rants about Mike (& Bruce), but again, that won't stop me from quoting him if I liked some of his informative posts. I'll even say kind words to him when necessary. So, there's sth. good in everyone. Each of us can offer sth. useful to the board. I don't remember here that someone was being only good or only bad.

Would you be referring to the photos of dead mangled corpses Ethan posted and threats to track certain board members down, kill them and then chop their bodies up? If so you're right, he has no place to critise anybody, ever.

You aren't kidding. I've refused ban appeals for lesser offenses than his. Why this one was ever allowed back is beyond my comprehension, but hey. That's why the board has several moderators.

I see all that, I really do. My issue is, is that I do not see the difference between calling somebody stupid and calling their posts stupid. Both infer the same thing about the poster. What AGD did was call the person stupid because he thought the post was stupid. See, we all call each other out, especially regarding dumb posts. You see it in here all the time. Hell, 3/4 of the members would be banned if this was enforced. It's in the way that we do it that we get away with it. Plus, he apologized to the individual, so I found the ban a bit extreme. I won't go against the Mods on this, as they did what they felt necessary to do. You have to have rules, but I'm just wondering for future infractions that the rules and punishments be reevaluated. Also, this thread was started for fun, some of us miss what Andrew has to offer and we're just showing our feelings about it.

Well i apologize for judging him, and i have apologized for my actions many times and i was antoginzed to what happened and lost it, and also most of you didnt even take it seriously, even after i was banned, it hurts me that even after i apologized this still goes on, like hell like everyone has problems, i was going threw alot and unfortanly had a meltdown.

And its been a year since that, and I've apologized many times for my actions and you don't see me acting like how i acted before and also, how many times have people apologized for saying something offensive or starting a fight and still continue?

Personally speaking, IMHO you have more than proved yourself since then. Mistakes happen.

Thank you Billy.
I don't see what gives a lot of poster the right to criticize me for one terrible post and most of you posters on have said more hurtful things to other posters on a lot of other posts than I have, whether or not it involved corpse pictures, have you ever seen me say anything hurtful and such since after I was back on here?

I don't get why people still bring it up. You've more than explained yourself and explained the reasoning behind those posts, apologized, and moved on. I wish others would move on as well. I'm glad you're still posting here, Ethan.

Thanks rab2591,
I don't have a right to judge for something i did a year ago and yet posters here still continue to say hurtful things to one another after they apologize and after I apologize you don't see me saying hurtful things to anyone.  Also, What did you expect when you start with people, look what happened when someone antagonized me? you don't know how people are going to respond or what there going through, think before you write 'cause you'll never know how that persons going to respond and why was I brought back? because I know what I was did was wrong, wanted to apologize and wanted to move on.

Ethan if I may weigh in. I was truly grossed out by the death pictures at the time, but I know how sincere you are and think your work with Beach Boys photos etc. add a lot to the board. I, for one, put it behind me.

Thanks Mike

As I seem to have been the target of the cause, I feel I should weigh in.

I was not offended in the slightest bit by AGD's comment, I found it harsh but I was more concerned with myself for my ignorant though harmless comment which gave him leverage.

However, I do believe that if he had hypothetically said that to someone else, it might be a different story.  Andrew needs to remember that he is interacting with real people here.  He may be staring at a computer screen but he is talking to real living human beings.  We have no idea what the person on the other side is like or what he or she is thinking.  We have to treat them to same way we treat people we encounter physically.  And I highly doubt that Andrew would go up to a stranger (which I basically am to him) and call them stupid based on a random comment, that's just rude behavior.  I do appreciate everything Andrew does with his research, his website is still a fantastic source.  He just needs to be more respectful to his fellow board members.  Maybe the ban will do him good and he'll come back with more restraint on his words.

 Place is really boring lately. What we need is some AGD insight. END the BAN!! 

I concur

Merged with the "AGD banned?" thread.

He'll be back in 9 days.

9 days bla bla bla....  end it now!

I concur

We should have an unbanhammer challenge similar to the banhammer challenge that went into effect a while ago. In this case, someone who wants us to drop the unbanhammer (like bgas and 18thofMay here) appeals to us mods for a reason for us to give the unbanhammer to someone who has been banhammered. If the mods cannot justify the reason to unbanhammer the banhammered member, then those who made the appeal are banhammered. :)

I'm joking, by the way. Andrew's ban will expire in nine days. Patience, folks. Patience.

WHAT?!! agd got kicked off for simple 'stupid'?! the whole month?!?? wow.

   Even the guy who he called stupid, or whatever, doesn't care about the reason AGD was banned! And there are many voices looking to UN-ban him. So what's the hold up? Some arbitrary rule? Who benefits from his ban? No one, that is correct. This board has gotten so bogged down in useless anti-mike crap and lame threads about the crapping Beatles that we need, I mean NEED Andrew back just to inject a little, well...anything back into it.
   Un-ban him, and ban anyone from banning him, if you're gonna start banning at all.

We never do anything right. :)

Wasn't AGD banned for something more serious? I thought I read somewhere that it involved Andrew Hickey(great name  8)).

It was for a month because it was a second offense, not because it was more severe.


I'm sorry you found my thread lame; don't read it then. I don't know why you're taking a shot at me as I DID NOT BAN ANDREW. I supported it because Jason made a judgment call, and because he could have done it sooner for some admittedly more harsh posts. Even though Andrew is one of my best friends IRL, I can't be playing favorites as a moderator. The funny part is, before Jason did it, a lot of posters were calling for AGD to be banned. Who stood up for him? Me. And now I'm being attacked for something I didn't even do? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's funny...I've gone out of my in my time here to be as objective and fair as possible. Try to hold everyone to the same standard, regardless of personal feelings. His ban expires next week. Despite the fact that I personally want him back right now , should I just say to hell with the rules? How is that fair to anybody else that has done their time and come back? Or, if I don't do it now, and someone else gets suspended and I lift it early due to a public outcry...would that be fair to him?

Not too long ago, people were complaining about how negative the board has been with the name calling, flaming, ect. Yet whenever something is done about it, people complain. At this point, I'm asking myself why do I bother? I'm half-tempted to leave for several months and see what happens when I come back. Maybe Jason and Smile Holland should leave with me and let the board go without moderation. See what happens in three months, if the board's still here. I mean, for f***'s sake, this is possibly the most lenient forum I have EVER been a part of, and it's still too much. I could lift my leg and sh*t out bunnies, pull a rainbow out of my ass and vomit gold, all while walking on water, and some people still would have a problem with how I do things.

Maybe this forum is broken.

 :woot

Yeah, Billy pretty much nailed it; it's the same way I feel. And if anyone here wants to take me to task about it, go ahead. Accountability is what I strive for. I've made a commitment to make myself available to anyone here to air any grievances. All of the other moderators have, as well. I've no personal beef with Andrew, but sometimes tough decisions need to be made. I did what I felt was right. Andrew will be back. The world will keep on turning.

But don't get your knickers in a bundle because "you" wanted us to do something and then get pissed off when we actually do it.

Sometimes certain people just aren't happy until they're not happy(translation: pitching a bitchfest just for the sake of it). Maybe we SHOULD go a bit without this place being moderated at all. Maybe it'll take us descending into chaos before some people here get their head out of their ass and realize just how good we have it here.

@billy

eh.. i thought grillo referred to the 'beatles vs bb' and 'other white album songs mike should have helped with' threads. i mean, yer thread is in the general music section.

Hey, we could go for the no-holds-barred action that everyone here apparently wants. The board will cease to exist. But hey...if you guys want to have a board where anything goes (personal attacks, death threats, posting gore pictures), I'm all for it. I guarantee you that it will not last long before people wise up and realize how much the current situation is really no big deal.

I'd hope so, personally. Just kind of caught me by surprise because it was in the middle of a post regarding moderation, so I may have taken it the wrong way. That said, I still stand by the rest of what I posted. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get this board in a more positive mood, but I'm honestly at a loss. This board is at it's best when we're analyzing the music, or discussing why things happen the way they did, or debunking myths. I...don't want to lose that.

The fate of the board hangs in the balance while we all anxiously await those goshdarn MiC samples.

I think that will definitely helped. You know... a month or so ago I predicted it would be next week. Hope I'm right!

Of course, I don't mean that the board should descend into chaos in the literal sense. I was just trying to illustrate how it might take something drastic to really drive home how serious all of the mods are about getting us all in line. I'm including myself here, because I myself have made posts giving out my fair share of the abuse(in the same exact thread that got Andrew banned, actually). I deleted my comment about an hour or so after making it, though.

I think the problem is more with the internet than anything. Message boards need strong moderation. Frankly I like AGD a lot too, but we do have to all get treated the same.

I personally love message boards because other corners of the internet offer no protection.
 
I got flamed bad by a guy with a blog because of an interview I did where I merely expressed my opinion. It really effected me because they guy had HATE for me. Real HATE. It is scary to know that because I try to go against popular belief when I feel it to be right (merely on music mind you) some people wish me personal failure and who knows what else. So what recourse do I have? I do nothing and hopefully it will go away. After all it took me a full year to find it myself. If I do something, which I have all rights to do as there is slander there, more problems come up. One, like all internet flamers they don't use their real name. Two, who is to say that they won't post something even worse?

Not looking for pity in sharing this, I did choose be a somewhat public figure as a writer. No regrets, I love my job. I get to talk on a professional level with people who I never dreamed of meeting or speaking with. Some have become true friends. I know anything you do in public brings some nuts out, but I have been working on my career since age 15. I am 37 now and just getting my first major solo book published. I work my ass off solely because I feel I was put here to write about the artists I love. Should some prick be allowed to spout off and tear me apart systematically? No, but (and this is the reason I did share this) that's what the internet is without moderation.

I don't understand why everybody is so harsh on Billy and Jason, they do a great job here with SMiLE Holland.

I agree, they all do a great job. It's gotta be more than tough dealing with all of us. They are following the rules. Some of us asked to revisit the rules. Maybe a tweak might be necessary?

Don't forget Jonas, our long-missing (but very busy with work and school) comrade!

For the uninitiated. Smile-Holland has a real name. It's Klaas. He's got class and doesn't swear all the time and go emo here. He's fair and makes wise decisions on the board and his posts are usually uncontroversial. I like it when he posts parts of his record collection.

So we have Klaas, Jason, and Billy as moderators.  Haven't seen Jonas (Joe) here in years and never saw him warn or ban anybody so I don't know what he does. I should take his place.  :P

Hey, I was trying to be light-hearted about the whole thing! I just miss AGD. And yeah, I was talking about the Beatles threads because (a) I can't stand the flippin' Beatles, and (B) I am not at all into the flippin Beatles! :-D
I don't envy your position as moderator but I do appreciate that you, or somebody, must put a lot of work into keeping this board up and running (something I have absolutely no idea about how that works!)  and, most importantly I want my AGD! :)
(hopefully the emoticons help)

That's what Billy used to say!

Sounds like an unsolicited resume, Mikie  ;D

As for the banning / unbanning discussion. All mods, me included, have not always been consequent in our decisions, mostly due to not acting on issues directly or not at all. Tough part is that we are fans as well, and like to discuss along to like all of us here, so it's a double role we have. For me - and I'm sure that goes for Jason, Billy and Joe as well, warning and banning isn't a fun job at all. We try to give our best judgement. And if we're wrong about a decision, we're not too proud to admit that if one of you (or one of the other mods) point that out. As long as you all know that we only take drastic decisions if we think it benefits the board's future.

Sure is, which is why I made that thread in the first place. If it wasn't for it, I wouldn't be currently obsessing over them!

I apologize though for taking it the wrong way.

So this thread really isn't about the AGD Band? I've been trying to find out more information about them which led me to this thread which isn't about them at all. What a bummer.

So I wonder is this really sinking in as we discuss AGD's current banning.

He's a two-time loser, one more slip up and he's a gone goose according to Mods.

I hope he has seen the light.  :3d

Me too.

I don't care how many times you apologized. I was sitting here with my 6 year old next to me when those pictures flashed up. Luckily I put the lid down quick, and she didn't see, but you could have scarred her for life. I was and still am sick to the stomach every time i see your name. You are a repugnant individual and should have been permentantly banned, If your personal problems lead to "meltdowns" where you feel the need to post pictures of dead children then you shouldn't be allowed an internet connection. Simple as that.

My 10 year old just happened to be passing by and DID see it. I have a lot of respect for Billy. He has his reasons I guess for letting him back in. But I agree. If I were a mod, this guy would never be allowed anywhere near this site. For him to come in here and seek sympathy (and he got it too!) infuriates me.

+1 to what pixletwin said.

Andrew, if you're reading this...just make sure to post some gore pictures after a potential meltdown and the Smiley board will not only welcome you back with open arms, but blame others for your meltdown!

Anyone who threatens the well being of a child will NEVER be forgiven. Pixeltwin, I'm so very sorry your child saw that. That's really upset me. The fact that pictures like that exist make me in equal measures angry and tearful. That people actively seek them out is abhorrent.  

So, Ethan, you can bleat on all you want about how people aren't letting it drop. Do you not understand how much this AFFECTED some of us? I saw those pictures for less than a second and a year later they're still burned on my memory.   The fact you're trying to solicit sympathy proves you have no real remorse over your actions. Real remorse would be feeling so ashamed you never came back here.

Wish I hadn't opened this thread. Somehow I don't think I'll sleep well now. Glad however to see I'm not alone in my feelings, even if we do seem to be a minority.

To add to that...

If I had been banned for posting such reprehensible things I would not be so utterly PRESUMPTIOUS as to post in this thread. The fact that you did post in here as if you had clean hands was hypocritical in the extreme only demonstrated to me that you have no understanding of why what you did was wrong in the first place.

I feel ya there, Stephen. Agree with you and pixletwin totally.

Well thanks for writing that, now i'm gonna hang myself...

Knowing children saw that is even more painful, life wasn't never fun for me anyway i guess it's over for me.

Actions have consequences. Own them and grow up.

Grow a pair.

Why not try apologising to Pixeltwin whose 10 year old child saw the pictures you posted.

And if you do kill yourself, I promise you I won't feel responsible. That responsibility lies with you. How dare you try to transfer your issues onto us.

You know what? f*** this guy...little fucking sociopath. He's banned.

See this is what irritates me about the guy. He writes stuff like this to get sympathy. Anyone who understood what they did would either stay away or apologize. But instead this guy fishes for more sympathy.

Edit: Just saw that RBB banned him.

I am not going to sit here and let a petulant little sh*t project his problems onto us AFTER the mods graciously let him come back (a decision I've long since regretted) after he pulled that ridiculous stunt.

Apologies for my tone, but this needs to be said. It's absolutely reprehensible what this guy did and that an innocent child had to see it.

Obviously this person needs some help.

We should probably just give that some time to happen before he should be allowed back here.

He's not coming back on my watch. Absolutely not. You want this to happen again? Some guy who hates his life trying to make others feel shame for it? f*** that garbage. We gave him another shot and he blew it. It's over. End of conversation. Done. Finito.

People kept bringing up what he did constantly. That doesn't excuse what he did initially (which was very, very wrong) but the constant harassment and bringing it up wasn't cool either. Until today, what issues were there with him since he returned? I do agree it is better if he isn't on the board any longer; it is obvious he has some severe personal issues he needs to work out. I will say though that this brought back some very unpleasant memories for me, as it seemed like some people were provoking him trying to get him to flip out on someone; I'd been bullied enough to know how it feels. It's not just 'oh I'm emo so I'm going to cut myself and listen to Good Charlotte hur hur hur'. Some days I'm amazed that I didn't end it when I had the chance numerous times. Thankfully, I was able to overcome that for the most part (although I do still have my moments, esp. over the past two years), but I have a major issue with this.

Just my two cents.

Just ironic that a thread started to lessen a ban wound up getting another banned permanently.

I agree Billy.

Whoa there. Read my posts again. My daughter nearly saw those pictures. Pixeltwins child did. We have every right to be angry. I have every sympathy for people with depression. I've been there myself. When that depression leads to posting pictures that could harm children though, my sympathy ends. Don't you dare accuse me of bullying him. What about MY feelings, and others who were very affected over what he posted? He gets to waltz around here as if nothing happened. Every time I see his name I see those pictures in my head. Traumatized may be too strong a word, but it definitely deeply affected me.

I was not bullying him or provoking him. I was expressing my anger towards him, in a way that was cathartic and helpful to me.

And my final word. CHILD SAFETY COMES FIRST. That is not up for discussion or debate. If him reading about our experiences makes him aware of the impact of hat he did (which he obviously wasn't) then this is good. A big part of recovering form depression means - as you yanks like to say - owning your sh*t. When you keep transferring everything that's wrong with your life onto other people, you're never going to get better, are you?

I agree totally. I agree what he did was unacceptable and probably shouldn't have been forgiven. His final two posts on this thread were probably a sarcastic and ill thought out attempt at humor. But as distasteful as those posts were, they don't warrant a ban. He didn't do ANYTHING to provoke anybody in this particular thread. He shouldn't be given and immediate and permanent ban just because TRBB got pissed off. Isn't that quite similar to the AGD discussion? Somebody who perhaps may not always deserve it gets abuse thrown at him in an overly extreme reaction by somebody who is just pissed off.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this post gets ME banned.  ;)

He threatened suicide, not only to garner sympathy, but to make those who are rightfully angry about what he did look bad. Threatening suicide is emotional abuse. Abuse is a ban-able offense.

So, your continued bitching about the guy and provoking him is acceptable? I get that the guy did a disgusting thing that nearly affected your daughter, and I'm very glad it didn't. But wouldn't it be more productive for you to have sent the guy a private message, explaining in detail just how upset it made you, and how it almost affected an innocent child?

.

butt kisser.

.

.

Doesn't that come down more to parental responsibility than anything else?  This is the internet.  Anything can happen at any time.  Anybody could post anything on this board and it would be there until a mod catches it.

Ian Wagner was a big a wacko as Ethan, I wouldn't bet money on him ever coming back.

Ethan was very lucky he was allowed back. It's not like he was given grief over his past actions everytime he posted. The reason his post in this thread caused a shitstorm is simple, he should have realised that he was in no position to criticize other posters behaviour ever, even if it was relatively mild criticisim - he'd lost that privilege.

Since then, I don't go on here when she's around. Prior to that,(and obviously naively) I considered a Beach Boys site a safe place to browse while she's around.

As I'm sure you'll agree though, parental responsibility involves teaching safety online, (as the internet is a fact of life), rather than prohibition. It was a big wake up call to me to see that people can and do post stuff like that on a public and seemingly innocuous forum. As I can't filter out access to public sites such as this, then complaining about this poster and finally seeing him removed is me being a responsible parent.
 


Sorry you see it as bitching. As I've explained, it deeply affected me. If you're cutting him slack for being disturbed enough to post them publicly, perhaps cut me some slack for feeling the need to reprimand him publicly.

And to be honest, I think anyone who looks at / seeks out /  posts pictures like that has psychopathic tenancies. I would have felt very uncomfortable contacting him privately. I felt safer doing so out in the open, so to speak. How was I to know he wouldn't respond to my PM with more horrific, vile pictures?

Anyway, polite replies over. I'm drawing a line here. Anyone who wants to defend him and paint me as the bad guy is someone I consider hostile towards me.

Anyway, I'm taking my daughter to the park now, and pretend we don't live in an insane world where people who commit horrible acts aren't fawned over and pitied, and those who speak out against them aren't criticised. Think I'll listen to some Pet Sounds. I have a feeling Brian Wilson would know what I'm talking about!

Exactly. Obviously what he did was severely wrong, and he probably should've been banned for life when this first occurred. But he explained that he has asperger syndrome/autism (how severe it is I do not know), said he got into a rage and posted things he said he truly regrets. He was banned, let back on, and since (nearly a year) his posts have been positive to this message board.

Should he have posted on this thread? Probably not. Should posters have continually reminded him of his previous f**kup? Probably not - especially since it's apparently something most of you want to forget.

Agreed, this thread was a no go for him to discuss AGD's mild behavior compared to his blowup.

you have every right to feel the way you do. Wasn't referring to this thread; I'd been noticing it from others previously. You had a legit reason to be angry. That is completely different

But that's the point. His continued presence made it impossible to forget. And I didn't continually remind him of it. I've stayed quiet for a year. It wasn't till I read his posts on here blaming other people for his outburst and not accepting any responsibility for it that I had a "meltdown". Rightfully so!!

Anyway. Why the f*** am I defending my actions? I took a public stand against someone's abhorrent behaviour, albeit a year later.

I genuinely hope he gets the help he deserves, but a public forum is probably not the best place for someone with his tendencies.

Thanks Billy. Sorry I shouted at you.  I'm feeling a tad defensive. Think I need to take a break for a few days.

It's okay...no worries.


For those asking about Ian Wagner... as he threatened myself and my family he will never be back.

Do you suspect a lot of these people come back with a new name and (worryingly), a new persona? If they don't have a fixed IP address what can you really do to stop them? I'm always on the look out for Ghost's new incarnation

Nothing really, sadly. Thankfully that doesn't really happen too often.

I want to make it clear that I do not condone or approve of the actions taken by Ethan in the past. My beef was and is the fact that Ethan was permanently banned for making a remark in this thread that I thought was an obviously sarcastic attempt at humor. Yes, it was in very bad taste. But he wouldn't have made that comment had he not felt like he was being backed into a corner. What he said and did in another thread is in the past. It happened, and can't be taken back. The issue is what he said in this particular thread. He wasn't overly abusive

Stephen, you obviously have every right to be angry, upset and hurt, as you were affected by Ethan's actions in a much more personal way. And before anybody says it, I'm not forgetting about pixletwin. I feel terrible that a child was affected in a way such as this. At this point, I have to confess to not having actually seen what was posted, but I imagine it was pretty horrid. After going over my posts to you in this thread, I realize just how harsh I was being. I apologize to you. I wasn't trying to make you seem like the bad guy, and I wasn't trying to defend Ethan for the actions that upset you so deeply. I apologize if you misunderstood me. I apologize for not wording my post in a better way. It just really annoyed me that Ethan was banned after making a sarcastic comment in reply to quite a few posts from you and The Real Beach Boy about his past behavior. I felt(and still feel) that the events of the past were being unfairly used against him as grounds for a permanent ban.

Alright, I apologize to every single person reading this thread. This place gives me a headache.  :wall

Jay, you were lucky not to see the pictures of the dead bodies and gore. They were some of the most horrifying images I have ever seen.

That's fine Jay.  :) I really appreciate that. I enjoy your posts and hate falling out with people, especially someone like you who seems genuinely concerned about upsetting people. A valuable quality!

I've calmed down a bit now as well after all that excitement. We'll agree to differ on the ban, and in any other circumstance I'd probably agree with you.

Yeah, as far as I was concerned, as soon as he tried to blame us for the fact that he was going to off himself, enough was enough. Especially when he was going to try and make two parents feel guilty over their kids seeing his bullshit, like THEY were somehow responsible for him have flown wayyyyyyyy over the cuckoo's nest. That behavior is NOT tolerated on here and it will not be tolerated under my watch.

We've kept bans on people who have done stuff not even an iota as bad as what he did. He's a manipulative little sociopath. He'll get his one day.

Yes, they were horrific and shocking.  I think that the two posters at issue, are apples and oranges.  Ethan depicted graphic violent images, without a bona fide music nexus.  Andrew can be harsh, but his position isn't violence engendering, and he merely has a low boiling point for statements which are not fully researched.

It seems more a matter of "bedside manner" as we describe doctors in the US. Someone with "poor bedside manner" can be fact specific, and cryptic, rather than one who "holds your hand" before he or she cuts you open on the operating table. I'd rather someone better with the scalpel than his/her mouth if I am in surgery.  Give me Andrew any day.  My opinion.

Ethan's posts with graphic violence, whose images a child could see seems less defensible than Andrew's sometimes cryptic remarks.  Andrew is probably less cryptic in person.  And his scholarship merits being valued.  And he doesn't universally offend everyone.  He has little patience for knuckleheads.  A lot of lurkers as well as registered posters don't understand how depiction of graphic violence is the same banning standard as impertinence.  

Like Billy, I wasn't talking about you; I was speaking of the posters who continually reminded him of that incident. I'm sure living with aspergers is no cake walk, and he's obviously had some bad days....having to hear constantly about his f**kup was probably grating on his nerves a bit. I respect your feelings on this situation, and can't begin to fathom what it's like for your child to nearly see those pictures (or in Pixletwin's case, actually see them)...and I don't argue that you should be upset. But people who incessantly badgered him about the problem should've gone to the mods if they were truly pissed off....instead of bullying someone who has shown clear signs of disorder.

Anywho, it's all behind us, and I hope Ethan finds a balance in his life.

And as far as the comment by Jay about me banning Ethan because I was pissed off...don't even try to presume what my thinking process was when I made that decision. I did not ban him due to my being pissed off, although I certainly was pissed off at how he was trying to act like the innocent victim and blame others for his lack of mental coherence. I banned him because he was trying to manipulate other members into feeling bad for him - that is absolutely NOT going to be tolerated here under any circumstances.

I believe in second chances, sure...and reluctantly I agreed (with reservations) about letting him back on. The exchanges yesterday with him, pixletwin, and Stephen were the last straw. It was time to correct a mistake and I did it.

Yeah, that's baloney, but you can believe what you want to believe.

wtf hal? That certainly doesn't apply to me....not sure whom you are referring to.

To the Mods:

Anyone who is giving you sh*t, please disregard. There are always going to be people who disapprove of every action you take, good or bad. You guys volunteered to do this and I appreciate it. Believe me, you guys are way more tolerant than I would be in the circumstances you sometimes find yourselves in, in here. Overall, you all do a terrific job and have my deepest respect. Sail On...

Hey, it's not like we're self-fish or anything. :) #smh #fml #lulz #threeletteredinterwebsacronym

speaking of acronyms, can you move runners' thread to the sandbox?

Thank you for reminding me; I had meant to move that earlier today. It has been done.

What did Ghost do wrong?

Also, Gertie, again, what's the deal?

You have a stalker.  :lol

I just remember him being a post whore and a troll, but I can't remember what it was that got him banned. I remember he came back later under a different name.


According to the ban log, it was due to 'homophobic post'.

I liked Ghost. (For a while I thought you were Ghost, Runners, as there are similarities) He was banned because people thought he'd made a homophobic remark. He hadn't, but instead of clarifying this, he dug himself a deep hole.

I think Gertie *likes* you, that's why she's being mean.

Ghost was cool with me when we talked in PM. A little weird though. We talked about the schizophrenic artist Louis Wain. He said to me "that's the way I always see my cat. She scares the hell out of me".   ;D

I start a thread about AGD being banned and in the thread another poster gets banned, permanently.  I never realized the sandbox is where all the action is!

Well, at least it didn't become a Mike-bashing thread!!!   :3d

We can look at TRBB's avatar and pretend it did.  >:D

That's a great avatar. 50th Anniversary Tour Mike. :)

Really? He looks pretty good. I would have guessed a date of around 1994 for that pic.

When's AGD coming back?  I have a need to be insulted!

 :lol

Sir, I would willingly insult you, but I doubt you would comprehend the full depth of my contempt for you, thus I will merely state that you, sir, are undoubtedly the most facially ill-favoured individual I have ever clapped eyes on.

Uh... was that OK ?  ;D

Been catching up with this thread, and it's been most illuminating (aside from The Usual Suspects, natch - we used to have an 'ignore' button on a previous incarnation of this forum, any chance we could have it again ?). I have a short fuse, that's not news and yes, I fully support the banning of repeat offenders but the rules should be applied fairly across the board - there are people here whose sole reason for posting seems to be to disrupt threads, broadcast their ill-informed and equally ill-expressed dislike of varied band members... in general, to disrupt the ebb and flow of interaction while not actually contributing. (Reminds me of a kid who used to come into a store I managed maybe 10 years ago and walk up and down the candy racks yelling "don't like that... don't like that... that's horrible... HATE that..." on a daily basis. You'll be not in the least surprised to learn I endured that for maybe five weeks before I banned his sorry ass from the shop). Yet they're allowed to get away with it. Maybe I should try it.

This forum is about Brian Wilson & The Beach Boys and the incomparable music they've made these last 52-odd years, not about the posters, especially those who seem to suffer from some mutant strain of Tourette's. Some of us here are just fans (enviable individuals !), others have varying degrees of knowledge and access. Some truly are insiders, who must be mortified at the sheer ignorance sometimes displayed here. But, bottom line, it's all about the music, not us.

I'm somewhat amused that with this thread I've indirectly contributed towards the banning of a poster who, IMO, should never have been readmitted. I saw those images: only a truly sick mind would post them in a semi-public forum without warning, just as only a truly sick mind would then threaten self-harm when reminded of their vileness. Leopards... spots... that kind of thing.

And now, ladies, gentlemen and creatures of indeterminate gender, we have a box set to dissect, discuss and mull over.

I deeply resent this totally inaccurate comment - I'll be 58 in September.

:lol

ah, SOME of us DON'T have it yet!!!!!!!   :'(

Good to see you back AGD!   8)

Again welcome back.

Do you mean the box set or gender...?

:lol

RIMSHOT!

budda boom budda bing!

This "commemorative" event can be easily associated with return of Jedi Grand Master, though Mr. Doe isn't the oldest Smiley Smiler. If memory serves me well, Mr. Mayo is 2 years behind him. But there are even much more older people, like oldsurferdude, NHC, Mr. TM, Mr. Desper, Mr. Boyd etc.

Btw, if you didn't catch it, Mr. Doe (or others), the "Jedi Grand Master" term is taken from "Star Wars" - some space-travelling/fighting franchise. Here's the article copied straight from Wiki, the definition:

Jedi Grand Master: The Grand Master is usually the oldest, most experienced and best trained of all Jedi. A Grand Master is chosen by the Jedi Council to lead the entire Jedi Order, while the Master of the Order is elected by the council to chair its meetings and serve as the Grand Master's junior partner in charge of the day-to-day administration of the order. In Star Wars, Yoda is considered to be both the Grand Master and the Master of the Order, although neither office is ever mentioned in any of the six films of the saga. His position as the leader of the council is inexplicably acquired off-screen when Mace Windu, his predecessor and one-time pupil, ceases to hold the title of Master of the Order at some point in the period between The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.

Hope it did help.

(http://i.imgur.com/pLRYbpL.jpg)

I already explained it. Just did some analogy between Mr. Doe & Jedi Grand Master, their returns to SmileySmile.net & Star Wars respectively. Hope now it is all clarified.

Ummm... there's a man at the door called Alan Boyd who would like a word with you...  ;D

Don't think Steve Mayo is 2 years behind Doe.

2Mikie: currently, Mr. Mayo's account shows his age as 59. Add to that the fact that he's born on the same day as Jerry Lee Lewis (September-something), according to what he wrote in "General music discussion", and here we have --> 60 y.o., i.e. 2 years older than Mr. Doe.

Which would be two years ahead of me.  ;D

2Mr. Doe:

See, I actually almost chose "ahead" instead, but somehow got mixed up about what word is more logical here, so I went with "behind". Blame it on my non-native English origin.

Not a problem. My excuse for that kind of thing is, I'm not actually as good a scribe as I think I am.  :o

This. Was. One. f***ed. Up. Thread.



Why wasn't this locked?!


 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Because it eventually died down...until you had to bump it.

Nothin' like dredging up dirty laundry, eh?  Geez.  ::)