The Smiley Smile Message Board

I haven't read the book in a while but it's always prevalent when researching and reading others reviews and notes concerning the Life of Brian.

I'd like to hear what you guys think of the book concerning what's false or what could be totally made up or a bending of the truth.

And who is to blame for these instances? Landy? Todd Gold? myself?


I thought of posting this in the various thread for questions but I felt this to be a thread on its own, being such a controversial subject and opinions can go on and on.

AGD will love this! ;D

i want to find out whats fake so i can laugh at the fake parts when i finally read it. :-D

most, if not all of it is truth. the pre landy sections for sure. i opine that even the landy section are true. why bother lying?

embellishments? yes. an account directly from brian's mouth would make for a very short read.
"borrowed" (but mostly verified) source material? yes.
incredibly fun read? HELLS YEAH

just my opinion, bros

Basically Gold - and he admitted this in Billboard - took other people's quotes and put them in Brian's mouth (his excuse was that he had to flesh out Brian's terse/monosyllabic interview responses). I pointed this out in my usual diplomatic manner in an issue of Beach Boys Stomp back in 1991/2. Shortly thereafter I got a long missive written in pure legalese from Brains & Genius which when translated into English said "print a retraction and an apology in the next issue or we'll sue your ass off". I photocopied the relevant original quotes from the Gaines & Leaf books, highlighted them and matched them to the usage of them in the pseudobiography and sent the 20-odd A4 pages off to B&G with a note that said "any court, any time". Never heard another word.

The book is, essentially, worthless.  OK, except for a few photos.

The quotes were not borrowed - they were stolen, used without permission, credit or acknowledgement and put into Brian's mouth. That is not the mark of a reputable author.

sorry,  thats what my quotes were ambiguously conveying. i agree that the material was primarily stolen, but all that source material has been largely verified as fact.
 

You have got to be joking. That is some of the most laughably transparent lying in the book!

"Oh, Dr. Landy, why don't Carl, Al, and Mike 'Satan Incarnate' Love want me to be well? Why must we be apart thanks to this unholy court order?"

"Because they don't love you like I do, Brian. But we will always be together! They can never take our friendship away. Now do as I say and you can have some ice cream, babe."

The tenor of the last 40 or so pages...

WIBN - My Own Story is the worst combination clip job, partially stolen, and partly made up Beach Boys book there is. And its also probably the best distributed of all the Beach Boys books, therefore finding itself into the hands of more people than any other Beach Boys book. So many people still think of this book as a fantastic tale of redemption written straight from Brian's heart. You have to be pretty stupid to like this book because it has been conclusively proved to be a major sham.

Sounds like a lot of FUN

I only ever read the book up to the second Landy era. Best/funniest things about it are Brian's voice/diction -- which sounds nothing like him at all -- the accidental third person, and the photos, which are genuinely fascinating, especially immediate pre- and post-treatment.

huh.  i wonder why it doesn't sound like him.

This book was my introduction into the world of Brian and the Beach Boys, so naturally I was pretty bummed to find out what a hack job it really was.  Still a fascinating artifact, just from a historical perspective (with some cool pictures), but it's tragic that the book is still considered a legitimate source of factual information for so many people.

Nothing in it except the few things verified elsewhere is true. Pure crap.

Obviously it is written through the Landy filter, and obviously material was lifted from other books, but at the same time there seem to be anecdotes that could only have come from Brian – for example, when he dropped in on a Rolling Stones session. It's a story Brian still tells to this day.

The only thing that ever stuck with me from that book was the part where Carl and Brian shared a room on tour around 1989 and had an awkward brotherly conversation.  That part I always thought had the ring of truth, and threw some interesting light on their relationship (albeit maybe not in the way the authors intended).

Me too! I tell this story often, but it serves as my introduction, way back in the far off year of 1995 :lol It was this book that inspired me to buy Brian's 1988 solo album in a clearance bin at Blockbuster Music (:lol) which then inspired me to buy (in this order) Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, 20/20, Friends, IJWMFTT and then Pet Sounds.

I have a few questions about some of the "anecdotes"(I'm not sure what to call them) from the book. I'm wondering if these are true or not.

1. The story about Brian showing up at a 1979 concert(I think in Canada?) so drunk that he actually laid down on the stage and fell asleep.

2. "Brian's opinion" of the rerecorded version of Surf's Up, and how it was a pale imitation of The Beach Boys without him.

3. The story about Brian seeing his daughters as teenagers and not recognising them.

4. The stories about friggin' cigarette ashes on the floor and intentionally burning the wood floor.

5. The various stories at the end of the book that seem to paint the picture of Carl as a lonely, depressed alcoholic.

6. That part about Brian pretty much blaming Carl for Dennis's death. Obviously, Brian wouldn't seriously think that way(I would hope not), but did Brian ever say anything about this in casual conversations with anybody?


7. The story of Brian stopping a Beach Boys show to give an impromptu group rehearsal of an "updated" ending of a song.

How about the level of detail in each conversation Brian ever took part of, nobody can remember conversations word for word 30 years on.
One thing I recall is the conversation Brian and Danny Hutton had at a party, the book states that Danny helped brian remember stuff, obviously this was one of them, has Danny ever said anything about his contribution to the book?

Once he shows up the book becomes a love letter from Landy to himself. Bear in mind also that the group were going through the courts at the time, trying to pry Brian away from Landy, so the book becomes one big slur on the group essentially blaming them for Brian's problems. If I'd have been Carl I would have broken every bone in Landy's body for implying that he was morally responsible for Dennis's death.

2. In the BBC Radio doc "A Smile Story" from (I think) the late '90s, Brian says he doesn't like the rerecorded Surf's Up because Carl wasn't the right voice to sing it

3. I heard Carnie confirm that story in an interview, I think it may have been on Howard Stern or something

And a few thoughts on the book itself...I got it last summer after reading just about all the other Beach Boys books and knew to take with a grain of salt, but when I actually read it I was surprised how bad it actually was. I was uncomfortable reading it, it was kind of unsettling. Obviously the biggest issue was all the psycho-babble spin Landy put on everything, and not just in the periods he was part of Brian's life.
For example, there is something in there about Marilyn and how their relationship only worked because Brian wanted to be mothered and Marilyn was looking for someone to mother. While that may by totally true, there is no way Brian would ever put it that way and express it anyone, let alone the public-at-large in a book.

Maybe he did say all that about "Surf's Up" but he also basically said he was cool with it in the Sunflower / Surf's Up two-fer. And he also had that version on Classics selected by Brian Wilson.

Are we to believe the story about Brian and Tandyn Almer?

Their "relationship"?

The passages about Landy that aren't glad-handing him but telling the history are I would think accurate and definitely scary--he passes a lot of things off as OK which are really far from it. I'm thinking of the picture of Brian walking the streets in 1984 with an "I Love Gene" button. Even when I was the naive guy that took the book at face value it made me feel uneasy.

Lifted from the Gaines book.

When was it that Brian became so terse in his responses?
I've seen and heard early interviews where he's very talkative and articulate. Is it that, these days, Brian isn't just terse in interviews, but just in general?

Was it a sudden shift as a result of the abuse his mind was put through with the over-medication of psychotropic drugs, or a more gradual thing?

I don't think you have to be stupid to like it, just ignorant of the facts. And you can't really blame anyone for that since the facts are sometimes difficult to establish, especially if you're just a casual fan.

Have always wondered where Todd Gold got the info on Brian's LSD trip experiences. Can anyone tell me where these really are from?

Obviously, people other than Brian! :lol

And the interaction with his astrologer Genevelyn must have been taken from another source as well. My guess is Gaines, but if not then maybe Landy invented it out of thin air possibly after he wrote "Eve Of Destruction."

The family fight about drug use seems to reek of Tennessee Williams influence (though I doubt it was him).

I don't think we can really know for sure. But Brian has mentioned some of them again in less detail, so at the very least there's elements of truth to the trips. Given that an LSD trip is such a powerful emotional experience, there are details you don't forget from the experience, so it's not unfathomable that Brian would recall things from them.

Those trip experiences might be part of some court testimony or something like that.

Beyond that, my guess is that they came from Erich Segal, likely prior to LOVE STORY.

Experts please?????

The bio also places Dennis Wilson at the writing of "Surf's Up." Perhaps Mr. Stebbins will prove this incorrect for all of us.

We await the correction.

Cutterschoice said:

I agree with you.

Her name is J'nevelyn Terrell. She was a good friend of David Marks' mother Jo Ann (who is also a psychic). Brian met her through Jo Ann, full details in the Dave Marks book.

So she really did exist???? Wow!!!

How about Dennis being at "Surf's Up"? Who's fantasy does that belong to?

Van Dyke Parks told me that when Brian first played the music for Surf's Up to him, that Dennis was there too. He also said the title was in a way a nod to Dennis and/or the fact that the image of "Surfing" had become uncool in the days of Swinging London.

Yeah the psychic that consulted Brian regarding the release date of Heroes and Villains was J'nevelyn, and that story predates the WIBN bio by many years.

I want to thank you Jon for responding.

My flippant posts are meant to show that not everything in the bio is incorrect.

The "Surf's Up" Dennis-was-there thing explains many of the song's lyrics.

I encourage you, Jon, to view the the stripped shirt thing through another lens given importance of "Surf's Up" & the BB's image at the time.

Think of "columnated ruins domino" vis a vis the stripped shirts, Koestler's puns/like a domino w/2 meanings/and the chessboard western shirts of the Beach Boys' SMiLE photos.

Anyway, just sayin'. Oh yeah, and thanks for being honest and speaking up!!!

Brian was always slightly eccentric in interviews but before 1976 it wasn't glaring by rock star standards. His interviews could be strange from 76-82 but generally he seemed to be aware of what was being asked and knew how to react to it. After 1982 Brian's reactions become more odd and gradually he became less engaged by his surroundings. There are exceptions but you have to be very carefull with a post 1983 quote. I got him to talk a little because I covered music he usually didn't discuss much, but he wasn't nearly as through as I expect a pre second Landy term Brian would have been.

What about the story of Brian walking on the beach when he came up with the concept of "Til I DIe"? Is any of that true?

I've seen and heard interviews of Brian up to 1985 where he seemed to be fairly talkative and "outgoing". After that, Landy's "medicine" started to become noticeable. I've seen a brief interview with Brian from a tv news broadcast about the 1993 box set, and he seems pretty active. He slurs his speech badly though. He also seems to be smoking. You never see the cigarette, but you can see smoke around him.

The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in the Studio states that Brian told the story in the press material for Surf's Up album, which of course makes the story credible, but I'll leave the confirmation to the people who know more about the topic.

I haven't been around these parts in years. Would you mind sharing the backstory about H&V? Much appreciated.

It wasn't in any press story. Nobody knew publically that Brian was that depressed at the time. The story about Til I Die is false.

Does anybody have any contemporary press material from the period in question? Possibly Ian, or c-man?

The thing you have to bear in mind is that Brian's sole contribution to this thing was to be interviewed for several hours by Todd Gold. The proof copy with what were alleged to be his corrections is of highly questionable authenticity. Further, I was told by someone who was present that the vast majority of Brian's responses in those interviews were "yes", "no" and "I don't remember". Hence Gold's justification for stealing the work of other people, notably David Leaf and Steve Gaines, and using it uncredited. Gold also pillaged the rock press on both sides of the Atlantic 1963-1990 to put words into Brian's mouth, or to use something he had indeed said, but in another context entirely. This is one of the times when being the retentive geek I am pays off: back in 1991, when I first read it, I was recognising whole passages from the Leaf & Gaines books, realised what was happening and blew the whistle in my Stomp review. A "White Paper" in the October 5th 1991 edition of Billboard was particularly damning.

In its own way its a fun read, but only if you know the gist of the real story. As AGD noted, 'borrowing' stuff uncredited from others is unforgivable. And that it's so well distributed to 'laypersons' (i.e. non-SSnet folks), is not so good either.

But to me it's also laughable, the story of the good doctor intervening and saving BWs life, who purportedly was turning yellow, weighing 1000 kilos, and had no lungs anymore. With all the psychobabble that came with that. I seem to recall some of Brian's 'own words', in which he explains his OCD-symptoms in a surprisingly lucid manner - in other words, Brian would never have been able to report such a diagnosis.

And who the heck is 'Seymore Stein'? Didn't they even have time for a name spelling check?

I like the photo of Landy hugging Brian in that hammock, though. I bet the words '50%' and 'last will and testament' went through his head at the time...

I've always wondered what kind of "therapy" went on between Landy and Brian in a private one on one setting.

Actually, I may not want to know....

Reportedly, they played a lot of chess. And read Shakespeare.

Well he does get into the shower with Brian in one chapter!

I aint to sure where your going with this Bill? The book is a steaming pile.. Move forward.. read on..

And his flippant posts are once again pushing the same agenda!!

Pushing the same agenda?

Read the thread title. "Opinions on what's false about what's written in WIBN: My Own Story".

The book isn't a steaming pile, but it is totally unreliable

You could try posting something constructive yourself, instead of just attacking Bill & Fishmonk. I may not agree with their points of view, but they are well informed posters who contribute more than lazy one liners. God forbid someone be flippant on a messageboard...  ::)

I have not said anything to the Monk in a month!!And have enjoyed his input lately!! And Bill was being slightly provocative to John Stebbins and others that have far more expertise in Beach Boys history. Bill has a theory. Bill believes in that theory 100% Bill tries at every opportunity to turn the majority of posts towards the Act of Creation, the pun, the zen riddle, the conspiracy, the Brian was smarter than you think he is, the "you don't understand because you have not read the communist least famous  book", the "you do not understand because you have not had a religious experience with LSD" line... Bill was asking John freaking Stebbins to consider columnated ruins domino was about the stripped shirts PLEASE!!

I read the German version of that book in about 1996, and it got me totally hooked onto Brian and the Beach Boys. It was one of the most fascinating reading experiences in my life. I bought all the LPs after that.

Later I got LLVS, and even though this was in English, I could easily see that there were passages ripped from magazine clippings in there. They were in fact stolen, but stolen well, and the book was really well... let's say compiled.  ::)

This year, the German defense minister had to resign because some people found out he had written his dissertation in a similar way...

That's odd how you read Bill asking for Stebbin's input as being provocative. Maybe I'm missing some vital history there, but it didn't seem like that to me at all.

You make it sound like you're happy for people to have interpretations of Van Dyke Park's lyrics, as long as they don't share them?

And it's not like the zen thing is pulled out of the air, either. There's audio of Brian talking about it, so it's a valid opinion. Doesn't make it true, but doesn't warrant a hostile response either.

Landy was so creepy with him always in pictures with Brian and having his arm around Brian's shoulder during interviews like he just wanted to show the world, "i control Brian Wilson and theres nothing you can do about it."

Main problem I have with Bill's zen theory - if you ignore Brian's belief-du-jour at the time being Subud anyway - is that he uses evidence from Brian's pseudobiography to support his point, thus rendering it, if not instantly invalid, then at the very least seriously questionable. Brian's name may be on the front of that book, but it was written by Todd Gold and the guy looking over his shoulder as he did it had the initials EEL, not BDW.

If there was a way of finding out if Brian's LSD trip descriptions were true it would be great, as the Zen theory adds a very interesting layer.

Yeah. On the grounds of those piccies and videos alone, he should have been sued. He fed so many psychotropic drugs into his patient, that the evidence is right there: never spoke and moved Brian so difficultly as in the material from around 1990 or thereabouts. Brian seemed to have a mouth of rubber, which thankfully is not the case any more. When he's at ease, he's much more understandable.

They're almost certainly the work of Gold, as the words, grammar and phraseology used are nothing like Brian was in either 1965 or 1991... and it's not just the trips - the whole book is like that. If Brian was always this verbally adept, he'd have had no need for a lyricist. Ever.

This seems a more realistic version.

Brian says:

"I went to the library and started feeling dizzy, you know? And the books looked like they were melting"

And it got turned into:

"The room began to spin. I was in the center of a giant spinning top. Turning, turning, turning. The moment was completely surreal. Then I saw the books melting down the shelves, dripping like wax down the side of a candle. I extended my arms, wanting to run my hands through the information, wanting to stain my skin with words written by mankind's greatest minds. But all I felt was air. The knowledge was eluding me."

Brian has come a long way compared the 1990s where he was trying to find his way after being freed from Landy, the sad thing about this whole mess is that Brian under Landy was looking good mentally and physically in 1984 and 1985, then Brian lost too much weight and the signs of psychotropic drug abuse from Landy became apparent as time went on.

 :lol

Yep. I like how he looks on the back cover side of 'The Beach Boys'.

This book should be filed in the 'fiction' section of libraries and bookstores. Or have a disclaimer sticker on the front warning that 95% of the material is lifted from other books or made up by a man with as much objectivity as Hitler did when he wrote "Mein Kampf".

landy knew everything about brian. he's a better source than brian because he knew more about brian than brian does (consciously). he was his psychiatrist/psychologist/friend/handler for what 20 years? lets not forget he did save his life, right?

what todd didn't steal he gathered from interviews. all his sources were forthcoming and the data they provided has been mostly corroborated.

of course brian didn't write the book, his psyche did through copious sessions of therapy and direct interviewing.

True... but he then used those quotes out of context, and again, without once indicating that the source wasn't BDW in 1990, not to mention inventing entire pages of dialog.


Not even close - from mid 1975 to mid 1977, and again from late 1982 to late 1991. Ten years, eleven tops.

The annoying part is the CLICK CLICK parts.  The only info on Brian's "wilderness" era was stolen from other books, and IIRC the author went for the *ahem* "snapshot motif" in order to describe that period. It's been about a 13-14 years since I read it, but that still sticks out.

Andrew seems to think the LSD accounts in the bio are likely from the creative mind of Todd Gold.

There's a problem with this as I've found lots of the bio's LSD accounts relate-able to the SMiLE music in numerous ways to the point that Gold likely would have had to base his imaginary Brian trips on SMiLE material. But if his level of insight was this keen then why did Gold borrow (steal) everything for the SMiLE section of the book?

It's as if Gold must be totally SMiLE savy while inventing Brian's trips but totally SMiLE clueless when writing about SMiLE.

Sorry Andrew, I don't buy it.

In court under oath Brian said it's Bullshit. Nuff said.

So the stuff cobbled together form other sources proves the other sources were incorrect. Is that correct?

Is that a Koan?  ;D

That's just following through on a certain logic.

It's not a koan & I have to tell you that I know nothing about Zen so please don't bring the subject up again.

But the koan idea & the riddle or mystery idea is interesting in conjunction with the idea of prompting spiritual enlightenment and that's where they meet in SMiLE.

I know what you were saying. I was joking.

I was lying.

So was I.  ;D


I think the rule of thumb with the book is 'if it's not from something else, it's the work of Gold or Landy.' Given Landy's methods, I don't think that's an unfair assesssment. The man was v controlling of Brian's life!

Fresh Zen air around my head.... aaaaahh

Not to play devil's advocate but at least Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. :)

Fresh Subud air around my head...

It goes through how Brian turned onto the four freshmen, how the first ever song he heard of theirs was day by day while in their car and when his mother took him to by the record.
Anyone think this is actually true ?

What about the section detailing the therapy Brian went through when he got to Hawaii? It gives an almost day by day account of the various phobias and issues he had to overcome. Do you think any of that can be trusted? I know that Landy went way over the accepted Doctor and patient relationship, but do you think that of those chapters could be trusted as coming from Landy the "therapist", versus Landy the control freak psycho?

I don't trust a word unless I have heard it said elsewhere. Even then Gold manages to mess up some stright out facts.

I once came up with a great line to describe this book. You know how you can tell that this book wasn't written by Brian? Because a person with the personality and mentality of Brian Wilson is not capable of that much hate.

Word.

Never said that (geez, I wish people would actually read what I say properly): I said that Gold invented the dialog. Brian's trips are well-documented.

As for this - "There's a problem with this as I've found lots of the bio's LSD accounts relate-able to the SMiLE music in numerous ways" - as I've stated before and you recently conceded, that's just your opinion. "I've found" - no, you haven't found, you've theorised. If you can directly relate Brian's trips to the Smile music other than your entirely aribtrary numbers method, please let us in on it. Of course the project was informed by Brian's drug use, just as it was by health foods, exercise and American history. Once again, you've constructed a theory and presented it to us as fact, and said theory is grounded on a book that everyone in the music biz, Brian Wilson included, is a deeply flawed piece of crap.

Oh, and you know why Gold stole text from other authors ? He was up against a deadline and wasn't aware just how monosyllabic Brian could be until the interviews.

Genius.

I'd say the parts Landy wanted you to believe were true. Note that nowhere in the second half is the drug regime that Landy used to keep Brian 'under control' even hinted at.

And I cannot believe anyone who claims to be a BB/BW fan is still being in any way defensive about that book, even to shore up their tottering theories.

Sometimes, I even surprise myself.  ;D

Jay that's what I always thought. Brian for all his faults is basically not such a hatefull person. He's said a few cold things over the years but never have I heard him be so nasty.

The part where "Brian" starts to criticize the goup's remake of Surf's Up is a good example. If the real Brian didn't like it, he would probably say something like "They kind of missed the ball on that one. But They're great musicians and singers. They tried." If he had even said anything at all about it. Brian has this thing where even when he's negative about something, he still seems to make it sound positive.

^ Just like on that DVD (I think it's the 2000 On Tour set, but could be wrong)where Ronnie Spector is sitting next to Brian and started singing "Don't Worry Baby". Brian initially laughed (like he was flattered), but when he got up in a hurry he looked like he was ashamed. Had this look on his face like "yikes...bitch done lost her voice" :lol  Loved his comment "Her voice is...umm....special and unique". Notice the word "good" never came into it. :lol :D

I have my own doubts about Brian himself stating that he had OCD symptoms. Hypothetically that might be true, but the wording is certainly not Brian's. And I never thought that Brian was a total control person, nor a washer (God, he didn't wash or shave for weeks on end), nor a checker, or someone obsessed with symmetry. He is a superb talent, but even on Pet Sounds he let little faults and very small off-key things as they were. Which, I think, contribute to the charm of the album, and don't detract.

So: I don't trust the medical details in WIBN. Nor do I trust Brian's 'own' observation that by having to be in court so often, he himself had become a legal expert. With all of those Landy meds in his system, I tend to believe that he dozed his way all through the court sessions, and dreamt of nice big hamburgers.

And did Mike Love really say to Brian: 'those shoes are hideous? Nah.

PS: want to see people with OCD in full swing? Look no further than this very board, including yours truly.

The BB were not exactly known for their fashion sense, esp. in the 70s, so that would be a pot/kettle/black type of situation.

 :-D perhaps Mike retaliated in the '80s for a Brian comment from the '60s about his bandanas?

You mean bathrobes and turbans aren't in fashion? Now you tell me...

zen??? .......  what zen......

from the man himself.....

 http://www.earcandymag.com/brianwilson-2004.htm

No, Brian Wilson wrote "Mein Kampf", and I'll sue anyone who disagrees!

E.C.: So there were no Zen influences?

Brian Wilson: No. It wasn't inspired by Phil Spector either.


Here's an older interview segment. Has some relevance
(http://whatanicewaytoturn17.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-wilson-by-jeremy-gluck-yknow-what.html)

JG – In view of your use of the word spiritual and its relevance to your music, do you believe in God? Are you religious in that sense?

BW – I never was....uh, I had what is called a “toehold”. I got that from a book called “A Toehold On Zen”. I learned from that book and from people who had a toehold on...say somebody had a grasp on life, a good grasp – they ought to be able to transfer that over to another thing. That's what happened with me; I got good with a great many things in my life. Business, music and sports....I'm a good athlete – I can play racket ball and basketball with the heavies, with the young people. I'm co-ordinated. I've got a grasp on music, sports....life

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f0c5szpeQGg/TU3phjfYSUI/AAAAAAAAAUA/q0ewAH9gX00/s400/landy+wilson.jpg)

I despise that picture so much...



LMAO

The Smiley Smile Message Board will be banned in Germany before the evening is out.

Especially in the 70's?? Your kidding right? The BB's were soooooooooooo much cooler in the '70's than they were in the '80's and '90's. I mean those ridiculous Tommy Bahama shirts and Hawaiian shirts and those tennis shorts and those wimpy country club izod and polo shirts that say sell-out all over them. Oh... and the pony tails on balding guys, and Mike's hideous color combinations. Khakis. Topsiders. I'm gonna barf!! They were pretty hip for most of the '70's in comparison.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

True, but I don't consider the post-Dennis group to be the real BB ;)

In all seriousness though, i was thinking of the late 70s BB when I posted that.

And that whole interview is just flat out freaky...Freakier than normal!

Andrew G. Doe said:


Where?

 :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/C-fused/dead_horse.gif)

The original goal of SMiLE was to bring about spiritual enlightenment.

Evidence of this is from Brian himself. In the Vosse piece Brian wants people to eat vegetables for health because "health is an important ingredient in spiritual enlightenment." He's promoting health (on the SMiLE album) to promote spiritual enlightenment.

This same theme can be detected in Brian's piece for The Beat.

"...Brian Gemini was a very quick-witted sort of soul, and he perceived instantly that he would need a great deal of out-of-sight energy to be able to cope with this brand new out-of-sight world which he had just seen with his new found out-of-sight vision....Shortly after this enlightening perception...." Once again the vegetables &, in this case, the out-of-sight world, are a health & spiritual enlightenment tie-in. Doubters should check out the piece in LLVS.

And Brian's explanation of the "Surf's Up" lyrics ends with "the joy of enlightenment, of seeing God." Once again a piece of SMiLE music is tied to spiritual enlightenment. But this isn't just done by Brian.

Frank Holmes in his piece at the end of Priore's latest SMiLE book explains some "Surf's Up" lyrics: "...and 'two-step to lamp's light' is an idea of stepping to enlightenment, finding your way there."

So how would one make an album that could inspire spiritual enlightenment? Please, will all the brilliant reading people reading this post write down how they'd make an album that could inspire spiritual enlightenment. DO IT!!!! Don't be gutless cowards. If you're so freakin' smart it should be easy. Take your time & don't read any further until you've done so. If you come up empty then realize that maybe you aren't so freakin' smart. If you can get over yourselves then read on.

In Brian's bio (despite all its flaws) the bookstore acid flashback scene presents a possible way to do this. Brian seems taken to solving the riddle and recalls Loren saying that flashbacks are "comparable to Zen riddles, mysteries full of meaning." So perhaps presenting "mysteries full  of meaning" would produce a result (spiritual enlightenment) that was comparable to Zen riddles & their result (spiritual enlightenment).

If we step back & consider hypothetically an album capable of prompting the spiritual "oceanic" experience then a strange thing happens: all of the farthest out claims about the SMiLE project (based upon the perceptions of folks surrounding the project & involved in the project) come true. Brian knew no boundaries---TRUE. He was the potential leader of the movement ----TRUE. He & Van Dyke were  making a mind-blowing fully integrated concept album----TRUE. Nothing was impossible----TRUE.

And this spiritual goal also completely meshes with Brian's consistent claims from the era: that he was making spiritual music.

If we consider Brian's claims the SMiLE was ahead of it's time----YEAH. What about Brian's claims that it still is too advanced---YEAH. What about Brian's claims that it's "inappropriate music"----YEAH, quite possibly (tho I have to add that such endeavors are also held in the highest regard my many religions).

This is totally consistent stuff. The spiritual enlightenment goal solves it all, and elevates SMiLE in a league of its own (perhaps the greatest album ever???).

Have you asked Brian or Van-Dyke??

No.

Brian blocked the release of the SMiLE material for years (due to its 'inappropriate" nature). He has never explained how the music was "inappropriate." Apparently, he doesn't want folks to know what he really was up to. Peter Reum even recently admitted that Brian isn't spilling any beans.

You'll also notice that Van Dyke has taken on more of the "ask me, I wrote all the words" role to take the pressure off of Brian as he doesn't want to handle the hard SMiLE questions. VDP is adept at fielding the toughies.

If those guys admit to what they were up to (Bob Hanes said "Brian & Van Dyke knew exactly what they were doing") a lot of folks likely would be pretty pissed off. SMiLE has become a big deal over the years. Better to play it out as is.

Plus, mysteries and myths sell records.

So I'm following you with all the above, and giving you the benefit.
 But then you go off into this mighty/flighty "he said" stuff. As far as I can tell, Frank didn't write the words, so his interpretation isn't worth anymore than mine or yours or AGD's, on down the line. He based his artwork, on what HE supposed VDP was saying, but there's no solid evidence that's what he(VDP) meant. I've never heard VDP spell it out like that.
Have you? 

And then you trip back down the lane into Gold -land once more, pre-supposing that Brian wrote it, when it's been hammered out time and again that it's a work of fiction, rivaling "Glimpses".
I get a kick out of your presentations, and your not backing down, but I have to wonder if you really even believe any of the malarkey you're spouting yourself?
 

Sorry Bill but that above response is an absolute joke!
Brian "junked" SMiLE for many well documented reasons and Van Dyke was the lyricist!

Hey, MBE, maybe you've discussed this before...but anyways, is there anywhere I can read this interview with him, where you "covered music he didn't discuss much"? That sounds really interesting, and I'm sure you did a great job, as you are usually one of the most sensible posters here.

Frank Holmes is key to understanding SMiLE. By being somewhat out of the loop his honesty regarding his contribution is illuminating.

How did YOU propose to make an album capable of prompting spiritual enlightenment? You didn't say.

The point of the bio reference was to indicate that the unreliable bio DID have an idea how to achieve the goal of SMiLE. Wow. It's as if a total piece of crap had the clue that could produce the greatest album never made.

My guess is that none of the online geniuses reading my prior post could come up with a single way to make an album with the ability to promote spiritual enlightenment.

So then, if the bio has a better idea then any of the online geniuses could come up with.....who do you think is the genius who came up the idea for the bio?

That's obvious. Bill Tobelman

Oh my fucking sh*t....BRIAN DID NOT WRITE THE DAMN THING.  As much as you wish and hope he did, he did not. Who came up with idea for the bio? Try Landy and Brian's management at the time.


You guessed wrong.

That well-known paragon of accuracy, Wouldn't It Be Nice - My Own Story.

Also, every other source Gold stole those accounts from.  ;D

'Course... if you're implying that Brian's trips are fiction, or even inaccurately reported, then 50% of your 'clear-light' theory just keeled over and died. Can't have it both ways, Bill. Can't manipulate the evidence to your own ends.

If you're referring to the Fusion article... I can't find anything even close to him saying that. if it's not, care to point me at the article in question ?


Firstly, where's the reference to vegetables in this... secondly, Bill, that whole piece is a put-on, a joke, hence the repetitions of "out-of-sight" in an intentionally square spelling.


That sounds to me, and many others, like Brian repeating what Van Dyke told him in explanation.


Is this flashback reported anywhere else except in this book ? If not, then it's immediately suspect.


Or... he didn't want to be reminded of one of the worst times of his life, and of his greatest artistic and personal failure.


Ummm, and exactly how does blocking the release of something for over 40 years promote the sales of same ?

I think that the interview referenced above is about all the proof you need, regarding the legitimacy of the "autobiography".

His contribution was to make illustrations (which are splendid visual puns) from the lyrics supplied to him by Brian & Van Dyke: he never heard one note of the music and his direct involvement in the project was done by early fall 1966. No-one spoke to him at the time: all his observations have the benefit of a couple of decades of hindsight.

^ This is well documented, as well.

Yes it is!! 3333

Man, that interview posted earlier
http://whatanicewaytoturn17.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-wilson-by-jeremy-gluck-yknow-what.html
is a damn trip and a half, esp. the part about his stomach ache, somebody getting punched in the nose, and
^THAT little nugget. For some reason, Brian's whole tone in the interview reminded me of the semi-famous one Syd Barrett did when he was 24,mixed with a George Carlin-esque rant. :lol

"I can't argue the fact that somebody might get punched in the nose". Um...what???

I need to read that syd barrett interview...

I think it was in Rolling Stone. Hold on real quick...lemme see if I can find it online.

edit


so far, no luck. Nothing on Youtube is playing sound for me so I'm going to have to restart my computer; when I do, I see if the interview posted on YouTube is the right one.

Now, imagine a whole book actually written by Brian......James Joyce beware!

It would be the greatest book ever!

Of all the thousands of posts I ever read anywhere on the net, this firmly belongs in the top 3. Perhaps its the funniest of all of them  :lol :lol :lol
The next book on the Boys should contain it. Where are Stan and Stephen Love, BTW?

Hopefully in my Beach Boys book which I only have a week or two to go on.

Man I love Beach Boys music, and Smile had some great stuff, but some people read waaaaaay too much into it. Play the music and enjoy that's all there is to it to me.

This is the way I feel too. I think the most of Van Dyke Parks description, in 2004: it's a series of small vignettes, like post stamps, about (the founding, or the character of) America (I paraphrase).

Period. And as such it is a piece of art.

The music is where the groundbreaking genius is, really. The words are poetic the way they are due to the music, but  vice versa as well. Brian and Van Dyke fed off of each other in the best way possible. In my opinion, *that* is the magic and beauty of Smile.

I could of written that. Word.

Agreed it's not far from basic Americana, but the timbre of the sounds and words really made it so rewarding.

You mean it's not far from The Band, or Lucinda Williams?  :o

Well it has more humor and less pretension. It also has unselfconscious in it's 1966-67 form.

That would be the one where he says something like "I'm really together, and I even think I should be".

Syd interview, RS 12/71 (http://www.sydbarrett.net/subpages/articles/madcap_who_named_pink_floyd_roll.htm)

Thank's Don, I must admit I was giggling all the way up to bed, and trying not to giggle in bed. I think my wife was wondering what I was up to!

But I couldn't have written it without Todd......

Yes that's the one...thanks!

BTW...originally I meant to quote your post, but for some reason it showed I modified it. I fixed what I did...meh...that was weird :lol

Quote from Andrew G. Doe:
That quote is on page 57 of the revised LLVS. the article is SMILE BRIAN-AND PULL THEM STRINGS and it was considered a Vosse piece by Cam Mott or some folks on some bygone messageboard or yahoogroup (so sorry if I got the Vosse part wrong). The take away is that vegetables (the actual food) promotes health which is "an important ingredient in spiritual enlightenment."


Hope we're looking at the same thing--it's on page 68 of LLVS. This piece is chock full of vegetable references: "Grasping firmly onto the carrot, Brian ate it quickly, and, lo and behold!--it gave him some very out-of-sight vision, of a very out-of-sight world." The idea that you need a lot of energy to deal with the out-of-sight world is an "enlightening perception."
The take away from this is that the same connection is made between vegetables and accessing a new frame of reference. "I've just come down from Carrot Heaven to help you see just Where It's At, and to tell you that the world is really Out-Of-Sight!"


Nowhere else to my knowledge. The flashback is referenced a second time in the bio when Brian is discussing the direction for his next album (it was Pet Sounds) with his astrologer (page 131).

Andrew G. Doe said:


The "clear light" reference isn't taken from the bio but rather the Surfing Saints article from CHEETAH! (page 98 of LLVS). Brian confesses "It's only happened to me once...." while talking about the "Ultimate Religious Experience."

This would then correspond to trip #3 from the bio which was described as "the ultimate...four hours of enlightenment and spirituality."

Bill, if you just say "the Vosse article", everyone here - not just me - is going to assume you mean the Fusion piece, not an unattributed text. A little more precision, please. And yes, the second part I questioned is full of veggie references... but not in the version you posted. I'm good, but I'm not clairvoyant: if you're using a quote to support the veggie point, makes sense to leave the references to same in the quote.  :)

And I see you tacitly concur with me that the alleged flashback is reported only in a discredited book written 25 years after the alleged event.


Again, you're supporting your argument/theory with a quote from Brian's non-bio, but even allowing it might be valid (for the sake of argument), has it not struck you that his previous two bad trips and the flashback were described in considerable detail, yet the good trip was mentioned in a single, almost  throwaway sentence ?

Also, concerning the "Surfing Saints" article... although it's been attributed to Brian, does it really look like anything he'd say in 1966/67 ?  I'd accept that Dennis might say it, but whoever is being quoted has a good handle on the surfing culture and is obviously a surfer. Not Brian, then... and the "clear light" reference is about a sunrise. That's all. The article makes it clear what the "Ultimate Religious Experience" actually is: "surfing is really kind of religious... The surf is now. The eternal now" Just about every version of that BW quote I've seen is limited to those three words "the eternal now", which sounds most profound... but add "the surf is now" and the entire meaning is turned 180. Finally, "You want to know where it's really at, man ? It's a sport. It's chicks. It's groovy. Anyone who tells you anything else is living in another world."

That's what happens when you pull isolated quotes from their original context.

Andrew G. Doe said:

Yeah, that means he was still keeping the details of his ultimate experience secret. One reason to do so would be to preserve the mystery that is known as SMILE.

Some of the speaking style is just Brian's from that period.

As far as the subject matter goes: this is the one insight we get into the details of the 3rd, or ultimate, trip.

The article uses surfing as a starting point to talk about the "Ultimate Religious Experience." For instance "coming out of a wave" is related to "finding out you really are...God."

It's interesting to note that the elongated titles & intros of both CHEETAH pieces (the Jules Siegel article & Surfing Saints) seem to compliment each other.

"The Religious Conversion of Brian Wilson: GOODBYE SURFING HELLO GOD!" and "In the sun-tanned world of Bikini Beach improbable mystics are finding a new Ultimate Religious Experience."

BTW, Alan Watts used the phrase "the eternal now" as interchangeable with the term "Zen."

The problem I have with meshing the two articles: 
There is NO obvious connection, other than the two articles were both included in the October 1967 Cheetah. Are we to presume that the words are Brian's because someone has tried to duplicate the way he sounds?    The clue is "improbable mystics"; if it's Bian, why not quote him as he was in the Siegel article?  There's no quotes and no credits, because it was just a puff piece, written for the mag; something some stoners would say, 'Hey I read that article on Brian, and then later he had all these other cool thiings to say". 
The only credits in the SS piece are for the photos.
 That is, of course, unless Brian appeared before you and told you it was "ZEN" with an E

Bill, bgas very kindly scanned the "Surfing Saints" article for me. There's no mention of it being Brian's thoughts. It's not attributed to ANYONE. It's entirely separate from the Siegel article. Those are not Brian's words that you've been waving on my face as 'proof'!

Contrary to popular belief and 'net appearance, I'm a pretty tolerant guy, but one thing I will not countenance is sloppy research, from myself or anyone else, and that's what you're guilty of - Brian's pseudobiography is worthless as a source unless the info is that stolen from someone else, and now it's emerged that an article that was a central bastion of your claims re the LSD trips has been proven to have nothing to do with Brian because trust me, if it was the mag would have said so. Please have the grace and the balls to admit that you're wrong here... or show me a copy with the words "Brian Wilson" attached back in 1967.


Know what that means, in total ? That the sub-editor/copywriter thought it would be a neat idea to do both in the same style -  it's called consistency  of style.... unless you're going to tell me that in fall 1967 Brian contacted Cheetah and instructed them what headlines to use.

Here's another great Syd interview from 1971 HERE:

http://www.sydbarrett.net/subpages/articles/syd_barrett_interview_melody_mak.htm (http://www.sydbarrett.net/subpages/articles/syd_barrett_interview_melody_mak.htm)

Piping hot clam chowder enemas!

Edit: I had posted the wrong link and I wanted to mention piping hot clam chowder enemas again in case anybody missed it the first couple of times. After all, nobody wants to take their clam chowder enemas icy cold, right???

I sent Jules Siegel an email about the "Surfing Saints" article:

"Your piece in "Cheetah" entitled "Surfing Saints" has regularly been attributed to Brian Wilson, although having read the piece I have to say it doesn't read like his speech pattern (or knowledge of surfing) at all. Is this attribution correct ?"

His response:

"He had nothing to do with it. I paraphrased it from another source."

I also asked him...

"May I ask if at any time during your acquaintance with him he mentioned Zen as being a cornerstone to SMILE ?"

"He would use the word occasionally, but I didn't get the feeling that he really knew much about it."

^

That should be in a sticky, and be in a FAQ. Check and mate :)

But how reliable is Jules' present day account of events that took place over 40 years ago  :shrug :wink

Considerably more reliable than Brian's recall in 1990/1  ;D

But your point is fair.

Well, we know he had a "toehold on Zen"

And a headlock on our hearts!

How does one attribute "Surfing Saints" to Jules in the first place? Of the articles listed, it's the ONLY one not credited to an author. Might it not just as easily have been written/ borrowed by Lawrence Dietz, Barbara Petty or Tom Nolan? An Uncredited unknown? Or perhaps it also came from an old Chassidic saying;

      (http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww302/bgasnow/scan0039-1.jpg)   

Fair point, and one I considered - but JS responded that he paraphrased it from another source, not that it was nothing to do with him.

And, er, it's not the only one listed sans author... page 38.

AH, you'd have me there.... BUT!!!!  I have the magazine, and I think you don't.  On page 38, the story is signed by Barbara Petty. The text on page 70, where Surfing Saints begins, gives no credits, nor are there any on the foloowing pages with text. Which is not to say that I'm disputing his claim of ownership, cuz even after 44 years, he was there and I wasn't; Tho I wonder if he owns a copy for reference, or he's just going on the little gray cells...( are Brains grey?)

*koff*

Check who's listed as editor.  ;)

This has really nothing to do with one side or the other, but didn't somebody once say that Siegel sort of tried to come off like he was tight with the gang, but he was actually pretty annoying?

I recall that as well.

*Sniff*
I noticed that first thing, which is why I mentioned the Managing Editor, Editorial Assisstant, and Contributing Editor( Los Angeles). Does the Editor get the credit when no-one else is listed? ( I am unaware as to the proper protocol) Perhaps BT could chime in here and enlighten me?

I am sure that is coming soon!

That's what she said.









-_-

Yup, standard protocol - anything unsigned is the work of the editor.

Alrighty then, I'm delivered

Nevermind the Jules article, what on earth is a naked Mama Cass spread doing in there? There are some things man is not meant to see.

Umm, YUM! That's a three pager in Full COLOR!!  I'd post it here, except I'm not taking the magazine apart to do it...

I think that the reason the person being quoted in the Surfing Saints article is not mentioned by name is because of a request in the piece itself. The request is, "Please don't tell anyone I said that" (referring to the "finding out you really are...God" line that precedes the request for anonymity).

Compare these two quotes from CHEETAH!:

"It's physical; really Zen, right?"

"You get to understand that the surf is now. The eternal now, right?"

The first one is from Goodbye Surfing, Hello God and the second is from Surfing Saints. And at the end of both lines you have a Zen reference followed by "right?". Obviously, this will likely not be very convincing to most of you.

I would however ask the same people to consider how many people they know speak of God in such a manner. In my 50 plus years the majority of my intersection with people speaking in such terms is pretty much limited to one person, Brian Wilson.

Consider some of the following pairs of quotes. The first one will be from Surfing Saints & the follow-ups will be noted.

"A lot of people say Kahuna all the time, but that doesn't mean they really believe Kahuna is God. It's just a word, anyway. You don't need words when you know."

"If they don't get the words, they'll get the music, because that's where it's really at, in the music. You can get hung-up in the words, you know." (Goodbye Surfing Hello God)

"You don't need words when you know. And if you don't know, man, don't expect anyone to tell you."

"I can't teach you, or tell you, what I learned from taking it (LSD). But I consider it a very religious experience." (The Frenzied Frontier of Pop Music)

"That's what you really learn from surfing, that everything is always changing and time never repeats itself."

"Empires, ideas, lives, institutions--everything has to fall, tumbling like dominoes." (Goodbye Surfing Hello God)

"To come out of that wave alive, is like being reborn."

"Then the whole thing was there. I mean my whole life. Birth and death and rebirth. The whole thing. Even the beach was in it, a whole thing about the beach." (Goodbye Surfing Hello God)

"It's only happened to me once---early in the morning alone on the beach...."

"I had what I consider a very religious experience." (The Frenzied Frontier of Pop Music)

What subtlety I like most (this is a very subjective point) about the Surfing Saints article, besides the clear light claim, is that the sun was coming up very red. As you glance through the booklet meant for inclusion in the album you get the feeling of the red sky red.

But as far as the spiritual topics covered in the Surfing Saints piece go....they seem to be what was on Brian's mind following his religious experience. The intro to the piece about "the sun tanned world of bikini beach" seems straight out of the California myth.

You could knock Surfing Saints out of the discussion if you honestly think & feel it's not Brian. You can totally ignore the bio's LSD accounts if that makes you feel better. You don't have to think SMiLE is comparable to a Zen riddle: that it was meant to bring about spiritual enlightenment. It doesn't have to be the greatest album ever. Brian doesn't have to be on the genius level certain "theories" would have you believe. All the grandest claims about SMiLE don't have to be satisfied.

You can gloriously settle for the confusion kettle that all your brilliant uncreative research has wrought. Let obviousness rule.

If there was anyone anywhere, ever, that belongs in the Cuckoo's nest, more than you do, I'd be totally surprised.  If it doesn't fit, it's not because you could be wrong, it's obviously because the rest of the world is wrong.
 You need to tune out for a while. Get some therapy.  Check into a Zen Clinic.  drop some tabs.  join a monastery
Brian wrote it, but he wanted to be disguised so only Bill Tobelman and himself would know
You're much more than one toke over the line, Bill. Everything you say now means squat.

I drew the same conclusion months ago! I have copped some harsh criticism from some for my comments to Bill. I seriously believe some of us need help some more urgently than others!

What a bunch of self-congratulatory nonsense.

I honestly got that vibe from his very first post on this board. I had read his stuff, looked around asked a few welll sourced people and then thought nothing of it..Most just think it is a laugh!!

This describes the mindset of the majority of the human race.

Which is why I despise most people.

(http://miketodd.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/theology.gif)

lol...Peanuts kicked ass....

Did it take three pages to fit her all in?

Bill you seem to have missed one or two very important facts when you posted the above twaddle.

1/ Brian didn't surf. He hated going in the sea. Did he look like he was having a religious moment on that surfboard in the '76 special to you? If Brian was quoting cod Zen philosophy back in 1966 it was only because he was parroting what his then far out, cosmic friends were saying as they all sat around stoned. It's like a semi illiterate using big words he doesn't understand. Never forget this is the same guy who's one standout memory of France a year before was the bread.

2/ BRIAN DIDN'T WRITE THE LYRICS FOR SMILE, VAN DYKE PARKS DID! (keep repeating this until it fainally takes root in your skull).

I might be in the minority, but I always found Cass Elliot attractive. She wasn't a "bombshell" type like Michelle Phillips, but she had some good qualities. I'd like very much to see those pictures.  :-D

Bill... I contacted the editor of the magazine. He told me it wasn't Brian, that he sourced it from somewhere else.

But, as my father said, "you can't tell someone something they don't want to hear".  You've insinuated we're all too dumb to grasp this elemental truth you've uncovered, but fact is you're the one with the closed eyes and mind. We've repeatedly researched your 'findings' and uncovered some facts - not suppositions, facts - behind them that cast grave doubt, if not invalidate entirely, their credibility, yet you still argue the toss. You won't admit that some of your tenets are now discredited in the eyes of everyone here, except yourself. I can understand that, you've put a lot of time and effort into this and you don't want to look at that as wasted. Been there, in both my BB researches and my family history. Spent two, three years tracing one branch, online and physically, before it dawned on me that something was screwy - dates didn't line up. Checked it... wrong person. Did I ignore it and leave the tree as it was ? Nope, made a copy of the records (in case someone else could use it) then deleted that branch, with over 80 names in it, from my tree. That's what good researchers do - admit their errors, adjust their view in the face of new evidence, which evidence they don't take on face value but sift for themselves.

You carry on ignoring what everyone who disagrees with you is saying and press on with what you know to be true. I'm done with trying to argue in a reasonable manner with someone who is not open to anything that disagrees with his fixed stance and has grown increasingly irritating in their inflexibility. As for my researches, I'm not interested in creativity, I'm after the closest approach to what really happened, to the truth, that I can achieve and I find it sad that someone of your obvious intelligence has to stoop to denigrating my work when you have no plausible comeback. I don't like me when I get really angry and neither would you: unfortunate things would be said. I'll leave you with these observations, repeated once more, for you to ponder on, or not as you wish.

1 - Brian's so-called autobiography, except where stolen from other writers, is useless as source material. He's admitted he's never read it.

2 - The "Surfing Saints" piece is nothing to do with Brian. It's about surfing, surfers and how they relate their pastime/sport to a religious experience.

3 - Yes, Brian's mentioned Zen during the Smile era: he's also namechecked or been associated with Subud, Christianity, I Ching, astrology and numerology. His association with Zen isn't exclusive.

That's it. From where the sun now stands, I will debate with you no more forever.

PMr doe this is why my family and I can call you a friend! A lot of love floating your way!
About bloody time

Love is nice. Cash is better.  ;D

Andrew G. Doe said:

Have to admit, I like what Andrew said.

The pairs of quotes that connected Surfing Saints to credible Brian Wilson quotes indicate that Brian did go through something comparable to the "ultimate religious experience" described in Surfing Saints. The clear light experience is also quote common to this experience...the red sky...probably not so much. The point is that if one takes Surfing Saints out of the equation--the equation doesn't change much.

One pair of quotes I omitted was connecting "finding out you really are...God" (from Surfing Saints) with a latter day Brian quote about developing "a Jesus Christ complex" in the sixties.

One thing about the religious experience is that there is some precedent for the idea that those who have such an experience feel a strong desire to bring about that experience in others. The term Bodhisattva applies to this way of thinking. So the idea that SMiLE was about conjuring the spiritual experience is in line with this way of thinking.

If one looks up "spiritual experience" say...even in wikipedia one will find the experience throughout the religious world. So when Brian Wilson dabbled in (an was instantly hip to) various religions it was because he had the experience common to all religions. In the Tom Nolan article Brian is quite pleased with the term "the essence of all religion" and this is why that is.

This is why trying to explain SMiLE by comparison to Zen alone is wrong. I made this mistake many years ago but have been trying to correct it more recently. But if there is to be a simple explanation....saying "it's something COMPARABLE to a Zen riddle" is about as concise as it gets. Unfortunately this gets taken for "is a Zen riddle" which is not exactly correct. I still think the idea of Zen riddles is an important concept for SMiLE because SMiLE is done in this spirit.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious I'm getting a little too creative here. There is no proof that SMiLE is what I'm asserting it is. That's correct.

Just as with spiritual enlightenment itself...it take a little creative leap to get there.

Art seems like a different animal than genealogy. What an artist is trying to say & what is perceived can be two entirely different things, multi-level, accidental, the shallowest of shallow & the deepest deep. Genealogy may require a judgment calls along the way but it is still based upon a set reality of genetic path. Art invites interpretation & re-creation which are creative processes.

Get a haircut hippie!

You guys were right about 'Surfing Saints' and my hunches about the article are incorrect. The article now seems a collection of various surfer's comment regarding the spiritual surfing experience.

Later today I will remove all 'Surfing Saints' references from my webpage (the Out-Of-Sight one) but will leave my original Zen page as is as it's meant to show my warts.

 :lol

 :thud

"Peace in our time!"

This is an approach thing (at least regarding SMiLE).

Believe it or not, I agree with AGD 99% of the time.

Have a peaceful evening all.....

The best is yet to come. I promise.

I always have the utmost respect for someone who admits when they are in error. And I've found a lot of your ideas interesting and worth thinking about, but have to say I don't agree with the Zen interpretation.

The nicest thing about this board, and why I have kept returning, is the high level of intelligence here.

I've read a lot of stuff I've disagreed with, and a lot of stuff written in anger / defence. But nothing stupid.

Which is why I try to constantly lower the tone......

I agree, admiting mistakes makes us grow. I can understand the need to read in deeper things into Brian´s creations. Yes he said that the only thing he remembers about france is the bread, at the same time we get a quote that "That´s symbolism right? god can not be concieved of there for we give him a literal meaning, he is in the sky you know?".  But a thought out Zen riddle, the whole of smile? naah...

I did find it suspicious when I noticed that a good deal of Brian's life is kind briefly addressed, then when Landy comes into the picture in 1975 suddenly it's an extremely detailed, practically minute-by-minute account....then Landy is fired circa 1977, then the next few years are discussed in very vague descriptions, then in 1982 when Landy comes back into the picture it's suddenly another minute-by-minute account....

I'm about 600 miles away from my copy of the book, but off the top of my head there are two photos with glaringly wrong captions:

1) There's a picture of Brian with a bass, obviously taken at the 1967 Hawaii gig, and the caption claims it's Brian "laying down some tracks on Pet Sounds."

2) There's a picture circa 1964 or 1965 of Brian with a dog that's very obviously NOT a beagle, but the caption says it's Brian and Banana.

Brian said he wanted to promote vegetables & health because "health is an important ingredient in spiritual enlightenment."

Michael Vosse has stated that Brian believed that through humor & laughter one could bring about a spiritual experience.

The demo recording for "Vega-Tables" includes a laugh track which puts both health & laughter together (two ingredients for spiritual enlightenment).

Brian's favorite book, Arthur Koestler's The Act Of Creation, outlines the logic behind laughter and lays out how achieve art which gets the desired result. Epiphanies are possible.

The SMiLE project employs the tools set forth by Koestler: from the pun, the visual pun, through animal impersonations, and a child's word for father "dada".....it's all there.

If Brian was working on an album to inspire the spiritual experience then all of the glorious claims for the project were well founded....and Brian's claims that he was making witchcraft music are also vindicated. The album's abandonment is understood in greater depth & Brian's insistance that it was innapppropiate music also has a sound foundation. Lastly all of the above would reveal SMiLE as something similar to a Zen riddle, with the ability to prompt spiritual enlightenment.

I must be a jerk to not be able to get this idea across (13 years I've been at it).

My fave was "Gene & Mike write the lyrics for "Male Ego" in the studio in 1986".

Bit late, guys...

At last I agree with something you post.

Back to the Future was released in 1985, so Flux Compassitors were invented by this time which allowed Mike and Gene to travel through time and take the "Male Ego" lyrics back to late 84/early 85 so they could be on the '85 record.

Haven't read this, don't plan to: still, I'm curious where and when Brian proclaimed this as his Favourite; was it recently or in the distant past?

It was the distant past - thus during and before the SMiLE era. I remember reading not too long ago that Brian's favourite book was Koestler's The Act Of Creation when growing up...Wish i could give the source - perhaps Bill or someone else has it.

SO, not currently?  A once upon a time thing, then. Tho, I suppose, a good basis for Smile, if true. 

From The New York (not The New Yorker) Magazine, August 2005:

NYM: Can you tell me what sort of literature affected you when you were growing up in Hawthorne, California?

BDW: The Act of Creation, by Arthur Koestler, and it turned me on to some very special things. It explains that people attach their egos to their sense of humor before anything else. After I read it, I saw that trait in many people.

NYM:It made you look at people differently?

BDW: Yes. The book’s about the logic of laughter, and I noticed that people are very self-conscious about being funny. They sort of watch themselves as they’re being funny, and there’s even a competition—it’s [affects tone of mock horror] “You’re funnier than me?!" I think [seeing] a sense of humor is important to understanding what kind of person someone is. Studying metaphysics was also crucial, but Koestler’s book really was the big one for me.

Whole interview is here (http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/)

Remember, at El Camino CC, Brian's major was psychology.

There's also that hummed laughter backing vox line in the finished version - one of my favourite SMiLE moments – which if isolated would be almost chant-like. Love it!

Heck, based on reading that, it just might be his most influential book ever.

One interesting thing about Koestler's way of thinking is that in humor you need some energy to make it work. "A drop of adrenaline" is part of the equation.

This may well explain Brian's health & vegetables & fitness "obsessions."

Also note when Brian doesn't work out or eat right (while at the same time promoting such lifestyle choices) it makes sense. Brian has already been spiritually enlightened, he doesn't need to do those things.

I wonder what direction of enlightenment he was taken on after he read the Bible or his porno stash?

Do we know that he read either of those?

A likely scenario is that Brian revisited his bookstore riddle to find "the answer." But you'd have to give the discredited biography's account of the flashback a chance of credibility to benefit from that idea.

I understand why folks aren't likely do do that but make no mistake: the idea of people doing such things in the 60's is a credible one.
~Barry Farrell, "Scientists, Theologians, Mystics Swept Up in a Psychic Revolution." LIFE, March 25, 1966: 31.

Yes

Someone agreed with me about this:

It's a start.

Don't you guys think that an album with the ability to 'turn you on' is EXACTLY what "The Moment" & the Summer Of Love were all about?

Brian nailed it!!!!!!!!

You don't read porn, you just look at the pictures. And rapidly lose interest after 3-5 minutes....

Ahh, a lightweight... you need to make it last

My guess is that when VDP said this:

He was referring to (at least as far as SMiLE goes) The Act Of Creation.

If you read through the acknowledgments you'll find "Brian" says Al, Bruce, Danny Hutton & Van Dyke Parks all shared memories with him for this book.
Have any of them ever commented about their involvement with this book ?
(I know I've asked this earlier on in this tread but no one replied)

Here's it is:
"Danny Hutton, who graciously contributed his recollections of a past both of us have long put behind us: Van Dyke Parks and Tony Asher,......who assisted by remembering details that might've been overlooked....Al Jardine and Bruce Johnston  shared their memories with me for inclusion in this book"

I've only asked this because there are conversations with Hutton & Parks that could be true.

I think you'll find that in this instance "shared" and "contributed" means "via previously published interviews that my co-author has shamelessly appropriated".

He also thanks Gary Usher who had been dead for close on a year when the book was published and was in no condition to be interviewed while the book was being 'written'.

haha very true,
its mainly the conversation with danny that raises my eyebrow, the one where Brian's really depressed at one of his parties.