Van Dyke Parks interview in the latest Record Collector

[harveyw]

I knew it was a mistake to single out this quote! Here we have an interview brimful of provocative political opinion (and also one where Parks completely misinterprets Neil Young), fascinating news-y tidbits & great anecdotes, and I choose to post the Mike Love side-swipe. Never mind; I guess the magazine is on the shelves now (at least in the UK), so you can choose your own favourite quote.

[desmondo]

No mistake - great quote

[Dancing Bear]

I thought that Brian releasing his own solo Smile was a way to show it to Mike, wasn't it? Then an official Smile with his vocals is Mike having the last laugh. 

[oldsurferdude]

It's not difficult, just taxing.

I honestly can't see how you can claim that a guy who sang innumerable lead vocals or key vocal parts in innumerable Beach Boys songs while also writing innumerable lyrics NOT a key creative force in the band. It just doesn't hold up under simple math. And I did say A key creative force. Not THE key creative force (that would be Brian up until 1967 and still a bit beyond that) The Beach Boys were a family affair where each guy got his shot at greatness and it should be embraced as such. Brian was in a position of immense power during Smile and it's demise can't simply be accounted for due to Mike's questioning a lyric or not being 100 % enthused. Many a rock masterpiece has been brought to completion under much more trying circumstances.

And you mean to tell me no one else in the Beach Boys had an ego? Please!!!!

You simply choose to hate Mike and that's it.

Sure, they all have egos-we all do but Luhv's is far too vast and out of control for whatever accomplishments he may be credited for. No one  chose Myke to hate-he just chose to be the way he is and stuck with it. Its not too hard to figure out.

[Runaways]

Mike Love annoys the hell out of me as much as anybody, but to dismiss him as a creative fart is among the largest bull-merda I have read on the SSMB. Forget all the wonderful lyrics he wrote/contributed/inspired, and that he helps keep the BB flame alive.

i give him credit for some great lyrics in the early-mid 60s.  and some great tunes (big sur).  but in this era.  Next to brian, dennis, van dyke who were creative FORCES, then mike doens't compare.  that's what i meant.  Also, don't lump me in with this crap about drugs and merda.  You take one quote that you don't agree with and lump me in with fishmonk?  Seriously? 

even with all the good stuff he did, he's done a lot of crap.  and his leanings to making money over the music pretty much negates his creative "force". 

[Autotune]

Bear: nice to see you posting again.

oldsurfer: it's a shame that your hatred towards a BB member has turned you into a troll... the longest-living troll in BB message boards history, maybe. I wonder if you contribute thoughtful posts under a different nickname.

[Runaways]

I thought that Brian releasing his own solo Smile was a way to show it to Mike, wasn't it? Then an official Smile with his vocals is Mike having the last laugh. 

yeah...the only reason brian released smile was as a swipe at mike.  

[The Heartical Don]

I thought that Brian releasing his own solo Smile was a way to show it to Mike, wasn't it? Then an official Smile with his vocals is Mike having the last laugh. 

yeah...the only reason brian released smile was as a swipe at mike.  

Sure. Darian, Jeff, Probyn, Nelson et al didn't want to do BWPS at all, at first. But then Brian began to hurl bricks and bottles at that gang of losers. And he shouted: 'hey, I'm a genius too, you know! If it weren't for me, you guys would be pumping gas!'

They gave in.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I honestly can't see how you can claim that a guy who sang innumerable lead vocals or key vocal parts in innumerable Beach Boys songs while also writing innumerable lyrics NOT a key creative force in the band. It just doesn't hold up under simple math.

Well, for one, he did not write "innumerable lyrics". The number of lyrics he wrote are quite numerable and even the lyrics he claims to have written are highly suspect in my opinion. He was the main lyricist on three Beach Boys records. Even if you just include the period from Surfin' Safari to Smile, that represents less than a third of their albums. There's some more simple math for you.

I don't really consider his vocals or key vocal parts to be creative - he was basically directed to sing those parts and to do so in a particular way. It doesn't take too much energy to do that. Yes, he had a natural talent for singing a certain kind of vocal but I don't think there's much creativity there.

And I did say A key creative force. Not THE key creative force (that would be Brian up until 1967 and still a bit beyond that) The Beach Boys were a family affair where each guy got his shot at greatness and it should be embraced as such.

Thanks for telling me how I should appreciate one of my favourite bands.

Brian was in a position of immense power during Smile

He was in a position in immense fragility which anyone should have been perfectly aware of, given Brian's own history of anxiety attacks.

and it's demise can't simply be accounted for due to Mike's questioning a lyric or not being 100 % enthused.

I never said it could. But it certainly doesn't help to hear from both your lead singer and your cousin that the album you have been pouring all your talents into over the past few months isn't very good. Brian has always put a lot of stock in the opinions of others and hearing negative remarks about Smile, I'm sure, only heightened his well documented insecurities.

Is it any surprise that the Smile project, which for the most part had been running smoothly, began to fall apart immediately after the disastrous vocal sessions in December? I mean, is that just a coincidence to you?

Many a rock masterpiece has been brought to completion under much more trying circumstances.

Good for them.

And you mean to tell me no one else in the Beach Boys had an ego? Please!!!!

I don't know if any other member has taken responsibility for the group's success, do you? And some have much more of a right to do so than Mr. Love.

You simply choose to hate Mike and that's it.

As opposed to someone forcing me? Yes, I suppose you're right.

[pixletwin]

I used to feel the same way about Mike as some of you but have since come to conclusion that the situation isn't as simple or easy as a "I hate Mike" stance. I don't know how you can deny that he wasn't one of the creative forces behind the band. But I say live and let live. Mike had issues and not all of them were unjustified.

Seems to me the schism in the group (between Mike and Brian) began with California Girls. Then VDP and SMiLE only complicated the hell out of it. The problem with the Beach Boys has always been the dis-functionality of communication between family members and most of us know how complicated that is. To find a villain in a mess like that does everyone a great disservice.

[The Heartical Don]

I used to feel the same way about Mike as some of you but have since come to conclusion that the situation isn't as simple or easy as a "I hate Mike" stance. I don't know how you can deny that he wasn't one of the creative forces behind the band. But I say live and let live. Mike had issues and not all of them were unjustified.

Seems to me the schism in the group (between Mike and Brian) began with California Girls. Then VDP and SMiLE only complicated the hell out of it. The problem with the Beach Boys has always been the dis-functionality of communication between family members and most of us know how complicated that is. To find a villain in a mess like that does everyone a great disservice.

But seriously folks -

pixletwin has a point. I find Mike's 'humour' often incomprehensible. Perhaps he has said all kinds of things for all the wrong reasons. But if I were part of a successful team, and had invested quite a lot of work in that team, and then other members would go on to develop all too big a liking for drugs, and collaborators from outside would be brought in without me being asked, and then indecisiveness and deathborn projects would be the end result of all that.... I might be not that happy with these things.
Mike is not the Satan himself. And he can't be blamed for the self-destructive tendencies in other band members.

[rab2591]

Indeed it is too grey of an area. When I first read the SMiLE lore I went through a hate-mike-love phase. Then I realized I have never met the man and have no right to judge him based off of a few stories (granted, some of those stories make him look like an ass, but who knows?)....Idk, it's too hard to judge the situation and thus it's really ignorant to conclude that everyone should hate Mike Love when all the facts aren't (and will never be) on the table.

However, I still say that Parks seems like a class guy who wouldn't hold a grudge for nothing....but then again, who knows....

I will never be able to forgive Mike for this though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6U2ubpBd28&feature=related

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But if I were part of a successful team, and had invested quite a lot of work in that team, and then other members would go on to develop all too big a liking for drugs, and collaborators from outside would be brought in without me being asked, and then indecisiveness and deathborn projects would be the end result of all that.... I might be not that happy with these things.
Mike is not the Satan himself. And he can't be blamed for the self-destructive tendencies in other band members.

OK, we have to stop with this business about "Mike is not the Satan himself". No one is seriously suggesting anything like this. I have been accused already of hating Mike Love without having said anything of the sort. Without realizing it, you are exaggerating our point in order to trivialize it.

At any rate, you are correct that "he can't be blamed for the self-destructive tendencies in other band members." That being said, it's not like he was the one swoop in and save the band from total obliteration. When Brian began his slow bow out, it was really Carl and Dennis who stepped up to the plate as producers and songwriters. Hell, even Bruce could help solidify an album with songs and production. Love couldn't do any of that. I think that alone suggests that this business about him being a "key creative force" is dramatically overstated. The music produced by the band post-Smile just simply doesn't give a lot of weight to the suggestion that Love was a key creative talent who had to deal with self-destructive band members. As far as I'm concerned it was those band members who actually kept the band going and produced some of their best work.

[The Heartical Don]

But if I were part of a successful team, and had invested quite a lot of work in that team, and then other members would go on to develop all too big a liking for drugs, and collaborators from outside would be brought in without me being asked, and then indecisiveness and deathborn projects would be the end result of all that.... I might be not that happy with these things.
Mike is not the Satan himself. And he can't be blamed for the self-destructive tendencies in other band members.

OK, we have to stop with this business about "Mike is not the Satan himself". No one is seriously suggesting anything like this. I have been accused already of hating Mike Love without having said anything of the sort. Without realizing it, you are exaggerating our point in order to trivialize it.

At any rate, you are correct that "he can't be blamed for the self-destructive tendencies in other band members." That being said, it's not like he was the one swoop in and save the band from total obliteration. When Brian began his slow bow out, it was really Carl and Dennis who stepped up to the plate as producers and songwriters. Hell, even Bruce could help solidify an album with songs and production. Love couldn't do any of that. I think that alone suggests that this business about him being a "key creative force" is dramatically overstated. The music produced by the band post-Smile just simply doesn't give a lot of weight to the suggestion that Love was a key creative talent who had to deal with self-destructive band members. As far as I'm concerned it was those band members who actually kept the band going and produced some of their best work.

Fair enough.

[oldsurferdude]

Bear: nice to see you posting again.

oldsurfer: it's a shame that your hatred towards a BB member has turned you into a troll... the longest-living troll in BB message boards history, maybe. I wonder if you contribute thoughtful posts under a different nickname.

hey doc, thanks for the attention! somebody's gotta do it, right? Looks like I've got some pretty good company here, too!

[Jason]

Dysfunctional band with dysfunctional fans...no wonder people always try to find common ground between the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles are all a bunch of jolly blokes, aren't they? The impression I get from this thread and so many others that degenerate into mindless idiocy is a whole lot of wasted brainpower to get fingers on a keyboard. The amount of stuff that people post on here about Michael doesn't faze him one bit yet one idiot posts a stupid remark on the bloobored that almost, essentially, ended Brian's career.

Case in point, you are all yo-yos contributing to Michael's alimony payments! Enjoy it, and keep those lovin' good vibrations a-happenin' with you.

[Cam Mott]

I guess the pendulum is swinging again on Mike.

[The Heartical Don]

Dysfunctional band with dysfunctional fans...no wonder people always try to find common ground between the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles are all a bunch of jolly blokes, aren't they? The impression I get from this thread and so many others that degenerate into mindless idiocy is a whole lot of wasted brainpower to get fingers on a keyboard. The amount of stuff that people post on here about Michael doesn't faze him one bit yet one idiot posts a stupid remark on the bloobored that almost, essentially, ended Brian's career.

Case in point, you are all yo-yos contributing to Michael's alimony payments! Enjoy it, and keep those lovin' good vibrations a-happenin' with you.

Are you sitting on an uncomfortable seat?

[Jason]

Yeah, my work chair sucks.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I guess the pendulum is swinging again on Mike.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but my pendulum has been firmly in place since late the 90s. It became apparent to me, then, that The Beach Boys were finally getting their due as an important rock band from the 60s. In order for that to happen though, the centre of attention had to be Brian. Mike's attempt to save face through this, by saying that he was the one responsible for the band's success (pretty much suggesting that the band was successful in spite of Brian rather than because of Brian) was beyond the pale. It became clear to me, at that point, that the excuses given to cover up Mike's egomaniacal past behaviour were paper thin. As far as I'm concerned, he is exactly the type of personality that irks me the most - he talks a big game but has little to back it up and what is worse is that he actively attempts to take credit from those who are much more deserving. I really don't know how anybody could support such behaviour.

[Mahalo]

Well you're right about that. However, FWIW, he had and probably would still have a great knack for writing with Brian. I don't care if he is the biggest scumbag west of the Hudson... It is sad how all this came to be.

On the other hand, with VDP ripping Mike every chance he gets, he might end up being the one who stalls this beast in mid trax... It's all ridiculous.

What did Dylan say at the R&R induction ceremony about forgiveness??

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Well you're right about that. However, FWIW, he had and probably would still have a great knack for writing with Brian.

There's no doubt, they wrote some great songs together but you must admit that the balance of greatness on those songs is hardly equal. In other words, I think the caliber of the music on a song like I Get Around vastly outweighs the caliber of the lyrics. This is not to say that the lyrics for IGA aren't good. They are! They suit the music nicely, they have a sense of exuberance and joy but the music composition is in an altogether different category.

Plus, it was difficult to write with Brian in the early to mid 60s and not produce something great. Brian's talent to create great music just happened to be growing substantially during the three albums that he wrote with Love and continued to grow when Brian replaced Love with Asher and then replaced Asher with Parks.

I don't care if he is the biggest scumbag west of the Hudson...

I do. And I know that I certainly wouldn't want to re-ignite my partnership with a man who has implied that our band was successful because of him and in spite of me. I might just be happy to continue doing stuff on my own while he plays county fairs.

On the other hand, with VDP ripping Mike every chance he gets, he might end up being the one who stalls this beast in mid trax... It's all ridiculous.

Brian and Mike haven't had a solid songwriting partnership since 1965 and even then they had only been exclusive collaborators for a year. I doubt VDP's comments have anything to do with Brian and Mike not writing together. And VDP has had plenty of opportunities to put Mike down where he didn't. Look at the A&E Bio - there, it's Tony Asher who claims that Love was a problem during Pet Sounds. Parks refuses to mention Love by name. Clearly though the testimony of both Asher and Parks through the years says enough.

What did Dylan say at the R&R induction ceremony about forgiveness??

Yes, but such behaviour has continued to repeat itself in different ways over the years. He has made enough comments to confirm that his haze induced outburst at the HoF was just a significant part of his character shining through.

[Mahalo]

I don't care if he is the biggest scumbag west of the Hudson...

I do. And I know that I certainly wouldn't want to re-ignite my partnership with a man who has implied that our band was successful because of him and in spite of me. I might just be happy to continue doing stuff on my own while he plays county fairs.

I wan't implying Brian should re-ignite the partnership...just that regardless of his character he worked extremely great with Brian.

Yes, but such behaviour has continued to repeat itself in different ways over the years. He has made enough comments to confirm that his haze induced outburst at the HoF was just a significant part of his character shining through.

How nice it would be to let all this subside and to collect the $$ which is in their future...

[pixletwin]

Can we just get a production picture of this box set? Pretty please. Seriously, I am begging here.

*waits*

...

...

...

...

 

[The Heartical Don]

Can we just get a production picture of this box set? Pretty please. Seriously, I am begging here.

*waits*

...

...

...

...

 

Oh, that's an easy one. Currently Mike is re-mastering the whole shebang without Linnett in the neighbourhood. He's adding strings here and there as we speak. Brilliant arranger too. He's better than Nick DeCaro in these matters. Just wait and hear... and weep...