Van Dyke Parks interview in the latest Record Collector

[willy]

The Beach Boys though, to me that is the largest collection of talent ever assembled. Each one of those guys are so damn talented in their own right. To me, any of them would be the most talented member in a different band. That right there speaks volumes as well.

Very well said.

I'd like to say this to all: Mike has said the odd crazy thing over the years but who hasn't.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I'm not saying that Mike's complaints didn't cause some concern in Brian. I think that Brian was already a little weary of the lyrics.  I just don't think that you can say it was ONLY  Mike Love, or it was ONLY the drugs, or ONLY whatever.  To act like Mike Love was the driving force behind the whole thing collapsing is crazy talk. And I'm not even a Mike fan to be honest, he's done some stuff over the years that's shady. Still, I think that to say Mike was the main thing that brought the whole album down isn't a fair statement.

[hypehat]

That's right. If  you want to blame one person for SMiLE dissolving, it's Brian. He was the one booking sessions, writing songs, and responsible for piecing it together. And then he stopped, and decided Smiley Smile was the thing to do. Brian called time on the project, and he did it when he wanted to.

His reasons? In my opinion, it is most likely his own instability and mental issues clouding his judgement. The man had immense pressure on his shoulders, and lacked support. Not just from the group, but from his friends. If you want to point fingers, VDP leaving was more of a blow to the project than Mike voicing his displeasure. Mike, at the very least, stuck around!

[bgas]

 Mike, at the very least, stuck around!

Tho, perhaps it would have been better for him to leave, at least at the time.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I honestly can't see how that would've helped. It's hard to imagine the Beach Boys without Mike or his vocals, but, Smile would've been fine without him: BUT..... do you really think it would be "OK, we got that merdahole out of the picture" and then Brian would've fired on all cylinders and got Smile out on time and to his satisfaction??

[Runaways]

I honestly can't see how that would've helped. It's hard to imagine the Beach Boys without Mike or his vocals, but, Smile would've been fine without him: BUT..... do you really think it would be "OK, we got that merdahole out of the picture" and then Brian would've fired on all cylinders and got Smile out on time and to his satisfaction??

get rid of all the negativity is a good way to get something done

[Peter Reum]

I think it is wrong to blame Mike for Smile not being completed. The internal state of Brian`s mental health was in flux, as was his ability to make sound judgements about the sequencing. There were at least a half dozen variables that came into play in Smile`s demise.

[donald]

I think it is wrong to blame Mike for Smile not being completed. The internal state of Brian`s mental health was in flux, as was his ability to make sound judgements about the sequencing. There were at least a half dozen variables that came into play in Smile`s demise.

That has to be true.     Brian has listed a few himself.   That bit of video from the Am Band film of VDP telling the story of Mike questioning the cornfield lyric has blown that  aspect of the SMiLE failure out of proportion.

By the way, I seem to recall a quote of Brian calling VDP a great big butthole.....maybe at a party......  That is hilarious given how goofy Brian can be and how stuffy VDP seems at times.....

[Cam Mott]

I don't see any evidence of it being the Boys, the Posse, VDP, Capitol, pressure, confusion, confidence, indecision, his mental health, drugs, confusion or any of the other excuses we fans have fabricated for Brian. It was exactly what he always said, he ended up not digging the lyrics or the music and so he moved on to a different mood and feel. Why can't we just let him own it, he doesn't need us to excuse him.

[pixletwin]

I don't see any evidence of it being the Boys, the Posse, VDP, Capitol, pressure, confusion, confidence, indecision, his mental health, drugs, confusion or any of the other excuses we fans have fabricated for Brian. It was exactly what he always said, he ended up not digging the lyrics or the music and so he moved on to a different mood and feel. Why can't we just let him own it, he doesn't need us to excuse him.

How then do you explain Brian abandoning his role as producer?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I honestly can't see how that would've helped. It's hard to imagine the Beach Boys without Mike or his vocals, but, Smile would've been fine without him: BUT..... do you really think it would be "OK, we got that merdahole out of the picture" and then Brian would've fired on all cylinders and got Smile out on time and to his satisfaction??

get rid of all the negativity is a good way to get something done

All the negativity certainly wasn't just Mike.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And even if it was somehow all Mike's doing/fault: what are we supposed to do? Should Myke haters make their own mixes of all the Beach Boys songs and somehow mix Mike's parts out or beg Brian to write all new lyrics in place of Myke's so that Myke haters can sleep at night? It's silly and it's history. Mike was skeptical of VDP's lyrics, Brian was "experimenting himself right out of action" with a hugely successful family business at stake. There was A LOT of pressure going around Myke or no Myke.

Regardless, The Beach Boys were there to lend their vocals whenever and however Brian called it. We know that Carl and Dennis played on Smile sessions and were all in all supportive of their big brother. Mike Al and Bruce would do as they were told, snickers or not.

[Runaways]

smile is better with all the beach boys voices on it, no doubt.  I just wish they went a long with bri.  or that van dyke stuck around. or that bri could have handled it. oh well.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Trust me, I may seem annoyingly "pro-Mike" but I really do wish the same as you. Ah, well... At LEAST we're getting a Beach Boys Smile set soon!!! 

[Cam Mott]

I don't see any evidence of it being the Boys, the Posse, VDP, Capitol, pressure, confusion, confidence, indecision, his mental health, drugs, confusion or any of the other excuses we fans have fabricated for Brian. It was exactly what he always said, he ended up not digging the lyrics or the music and so he moved on to a different mood and feel. Why can't we just let him own it, he doesn't need us to excuse him.

How then do you explain Brian abandoning his role as producer?

Are you referring to the whole group being credited as Producer of Smiley Smile? If so, I explain it as more fan fiction. Carl has explained how Brian was the Producer of SS and Jimmy Lockert has also told me that Brian was very much the Producer of Smiley. Why was the group credited then? My guess is it had to do with the whole group being the owners of the brand new record company but that is just a guess. Jimmy Lockert did not know. Also, to my ear you can hear Brian producing Smiley on the tapes.

Maybe you meant something else? I'll calm down.

But really, I see no shame in Brian changing his Muse/mind. Lots of you fellas are creative types, you've never had grandiose plans that just fell flat to your Muse part way through?

[pixletwin]

Nah you're on the right track with what I was trying to say... But even if Brian actually did produce SS, it still reflects a complete about face in his career direction because his name wouldn't be attached to anything as a producer for a long time. It seemed to me prior to the SMiLE breakdown, Brian really thought of himself as a producer than a Beach Boy. What changed that?

[Chris Brown]

Nah you're on the right track with what I was trying to say... But even if Brian actually did produce SS, it still reflects a complete about face in his career direction because his name wouldn't be attached to anything as a producer for a long time. It seemed to me prior to the SMiLE breakdown, Brian really thought of himself as a producer than a Beach Boy. What changed that?

My thought has always been that he just didn't want (and/or couldn't handle) the responsibility anymore.  Once Smile collapsed, Brian lost the confidence in his abilities that he'd had before, and to create at a high level, that just doesn't fly.  The guy we've all heard barking out orders in the studio during the Pet Sounds era was gone, never to really return.  Once he lost that confidence, I think he was more content to just go with the flow and let the guys share in the responsibilities that he no longer wanted.  Of course, his own personal issues can't be ignored as a factor either, but in my mind, Brian losing his self-confidence is a critical part of understanding why his role in the band changed so much in the latter half of the 60's. 

Another aspect of it may be some resentment Brian harbored towards the other Beach Boys - although I believe she was describing a later period, but in Brian's A&E Biography Marilyn talks about Brian's handing over the reins in terms of him basically being like "ok you a**holes, you think it's so easy?  You do it." 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, I remember that quote and well put, Chris.

I wonder if there wasn't, in fact, a bit of mutual resentment between Brian, The Beach Boys, Mike, Tony Asher, VDP, and Brian's new hip crowd. These guys might have viewed Mike as something of a threat toward their access to Brian because he was pretty straight arrow, a relative, a Beach Boy, and an assertive, confident personality who didn't exactly approve of their ways and the substances they were making easy for Brian to ingest.

Likewise, I wonder if the other Beach Boys had any resentment toward Brian because, here they were busting their asses all over creation (aside from all the fun: being away from home for so long can suck) as THE BEACH BOYS, getting the applause, their voices being so integral, and Brian being at home getting all the credit for their (and his) efforts.....

if this is true, it can certainly be understood and appreciated from all sides, and makes everything coming to an unfortunate head with Smile, all the more clear.

[pixletwin]

Totally agree Erik. The situation was just far too complex to put in a box labeled "Bad Mike" or "Crazy Brian".

[juggler]

We tend to think that the "Produced by The Beach Boys" thing started with Smiley Smile but that's not quite accurate.  It actually started with the Heroes & Villains / You're Welcome single (Brother 1001) which was released a month and a half before Smiley.

 I tend to think that Mr. Cameron Mott is on the right track here.  Maybe the change was just a Brother Records thing to emphasize the group rather than some grand sign that Brian had thrown in the towel.  I mean, by many accounts, Brian still had high hopes in June/July '67 that the Heroes 45 would be a big hit.  Unless the psychics he consulted were deadly accurate and predicted that Heroes would top out at #11, he wouldn't have known before the labels had even been printed up that Heroes wasn't something for which he'd want production credit.

[Cam Mott]

We tend to think that the "Produced by The Beach Boys" thing started with Smiley Smile but that's not quite accurate.  It actually started with the Heroes & Villains / You're Welcome single (Brother 1001) which was released a month and a half before Smiley.

 I tend to think that Mr. Cameron Mott is on the right track here.  Maybe the change was just a Brother Records thing to emphasize the group rather than some grand sign that Brian had thrown in the towel.  I mean, by many accounts, Brian still had high hopes in June/July '67 that the Heroes 45 would be a big hit.  Unless the psychics he consulted were deadly accurate and predicted that Heroes would top out at #11, he wouldn't have known before the labels had even been printed up that Heroes wasn't something for which he'd want production credit.

Jim Lockert claimed the Boys were back to more participation in the studio but Brian was the Producer during his tenure through Friends. Isn't there written evidence that Wild Honey was to have the Brian as Producer credit and then he changed it to the BBs?  So I'm thinking, as Producer, for some reason Brian was wanting the group credited. Now in the past the fan fiction has been that Brian was intimidated into it or there was some negative reason for it, but my bet is it was some practical positive decision/deception by Brian. Maybe because of their co-ownership of the record company and/or their increased hands-on participation in recording?

Someone should ask Desper about the Producership and credit. He may know or have an opinion.

[ESQ Editor]

All will be revealed when SMiLE is released later this year. Can't change the past…

[Cam Mott]

All will be revealed when SMiLE is released later this year. Can't change the past…

Too true, but the stories about the past change all the time. Looking forward to it.

[juggler]

All will be revealed when SMiLE is released later this year. Can't change the past…

While I'm sure the Smile box will be a revelation in many regards, "all will be revealed" is a pretty strong statement.  Too strong, probably.  BB fans have been debating about the group's 1966/67 era for 45 years.  Most of those debates aren't going to just come to a screeching halt with the release of a Smile box.  Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the box doesn't just add fuel to the fire and stoke even more debate.

Getting back to the "Produced by The Beach Boys" thing...  Another element that isn't mentioned much is the controversy over The Monkees.  We often ignore the fact that the Monkees were absolutely huge in 1966-67.   Their self-titled debut album sold around 4 million copies.  And it was apparently a big deal in the spring of '67 when articles came out questioning the legitimacy and artistic integrity of the Monkees for not writing their own songs, using studio musicians (i.e., Brian's own Wrecking Crew pals), etc.   Thus, in May '67, The Monkees struck back at their critics by releasing the "Headquarters" LP, which featured songs written and played by the group.  Headquarters went to No. 1 until Sgt. Pepper came out a few weeks later.  Brian had to be aware of all this, and perhaps "Produced by The Beach Boys" was an effort to promote the group's artistic integrity.

[Chris Brown]

All will be revealed when SMiLE is released later this year. Can't change the past…

Getting back to the "Produced by The Beach Boys" thing...  Another element that isn't mentioned much is the controversy over The Monkees.  We often ignore the fact that the Monkees were absolutely huge in 1966-67.   Their self-titled debut album sold around 4 million copies.  And it was apparently a big deal in the spring of '67 when articles came out questioning the legitimacy and artistic integrity of the Monkees for not writing their own songs, using studio musicians (i.e., Brian's own Wrecking Crew pals), etc.   Thus, in May '67, The Monkees struck back at their critics by releasing the "Headquarters" LP, which featured songs written and played by the group.  Headquarters went to No. 1 until Sgt. Pepper came out a few weeks later.  Brian had to be aware of all this, and perhaps "Produced by The Beach Boys" was an effort to promote the group's artistic integrity.

That's an excellent insight, and probably quite accurate.  And don't forget, there were articles written around that time about the Beach Boys being "Brian's puppets" and the notion of Brian being his own genius entity, rather than one of the Beach Boys, was very prevalent.  Perhaps they all thought it best to try and put an end to that perception - Brian probably most of all.  As I alluded to in another post, I don't think he wanted the responsibility of being the "genius" anymore, and maybe he felt that the group production credit would lower everyone's expectations and allow him to make music without all that added pressure.