Guess I'm dumb

[37!ws]

I assume Wondermints' recording was an attempt to emulate what a BBoys version would have sounded like?

Nope -- it's a modern rendition in a retro-power-pop sort of way. The drums are looped, but the other instruments are live. Very nice rendition with a good Darian vocal. Years ago I OOPSed out the vocal and flew in Glen's just for S's and G's.

[Aegir]

I'm thinking perhaps Brian had enough of a commercial instinct to know what would sell and what wouldn't sell, and if you place his "outside" productions into a sub-category a level or two under the Beach Boys where he was all but obligated to deliver commercial hits, it gave him quite a bit of freedom to stretch out and indulge some of his more experimental, more sophisticated, but less accessible songwriting traits. That's not taking anything at all away from any of the artists he wrote for and produced outside the BB's, but obviously he's going to give his family and the band with his name and image the strongest commercial material.

I'm trying to remember: Wasn't there a specific part in an early contract, somewhere, that gave Brian the ability to work with outside artists as long as he delivered the BB's product for Capitol? It would be the perfect vehicle for him to almost practice and develop his craft and not feel as much pressure for a "hit". And Brian also had his own separate publishing company, in partnership with someone whose name I can't recall, prior to 1965 for these projects, didn't he?

I disagree with this line of thinking in terms of "Guess I'm Dumb". It was supposed to be a gift to Glen Campbell. Why would they give him a dud? Brian wanted this song to be a hit.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm thinking perhaps Brian had enough of a commercial instinct to know what would sell and what wouldn't sell, and if you place his "outside" productions into a sub-category a level or two under the Beach Boys where he was all but obligated to deliver commercial hits, it gave him quite a bit of freedom to stretch out and indulge some of his more experimental, more sophisticated, but less accessible songwriting traits. That's not taking anything at all away from any of the artists he wrote for and produced outside the BB's, but obviously he's going to give his family and the band with his name and image the strongest commercial material.

I'm trying to remember: Wasn't there a specific part in an early contract, somewhere, that gave Brian the ability to work with outside artists as long as he delivered the BB's product for Capitol? It would be the perfect vehicle for him to almost practice and develop his craft and not feel as much pressure for a "hit". And Brian also had his own separate publishing company, in partnership with someone whose name I can't recall, prior to 1965 for these projects, didn't he?

I disagree with this line of thinking in terms of "Guess I'm Dumb". It was supposed to be a gift to Glen Campbell. Why would they give him a dud? Brian wanted this song to be a hit.

Go back a bit, I wasn't applying that line of thinking to Guess I'm Dumb specifically, it was a comment about the previous post mentioning Brian's outside productions in general. If you disagree with the post in general I'd suggest listening to some of those non-hit Brian productions for artists other than his Beach Boys, find some of the stranger or more non-commercial elements of his production and songwriting, and see which of those concepts or sonic/song ideas eventually ended up on Beach Boys records, if it's only a handful or a large number. I think it was the process of learning, developing, perfecting, then finally using in a commercial way some of these more complex musical ideas Brian had in his mind.

I doubt anyone goes into making a record with the intention to make a flop, I don't know where you read that in my post, but there *is* considerable freedom to experiment and expand if you're not being pressured for the next hit by your record company. Brian at least until 1967 gave the majority of his most commercial songs and ideas to his family, end of story.

[nickdunning]

Having another burst of obsession with this song after hearing the instrumental track on MIC.

The instrumental track makes the thing sounds even more 'Pet Sounds'. The horns are incredible, yet this was recorded in October 1964. Brian was ahead of everyone at this point.

Reading between the lines it appears none of the Beach Boys wanted to do the lead vocal, and the track was given to Glen Campbell as a thankyou to him in March 1965.

Glen's vocal is absolutely sublime though. Hair raising.

[runnersdialzero]

Reading between the lines it appears none of the Beach Boys wanted to do the lead vocal, and the track was given to Glen Campbell as a thankyou to him in March 1965.

No lines to read between - this and "Sandy" were written to be given to Glen, they're not just Beach Boys outtakes. If Brian would have wanted it on a Beach Boys record, it would have been.

[zachrwolfe]

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[Iron Horse-Apples]

The instrumental track makes the thing sounds even more 'Pet Sounds'. The horns are incredible, yet this was recorded in October 1964. Brian was ahead of everyone at this point.

You obviously haven't heard any Spector backing tracks from this period. A lot of the Pet Sounds tracks sound like where Spector was at circa '64.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Imagine Today! with a BB version of Guess I'm Dumb in place of Bull Session, and weep.

Wept many a times thinking that...

To me, the album absolutely should end with In The Back Of My Mind. That amazing orchestral breakdown at the end! Guess I'm Dumb should have been track 11.

To me it sounds like Dennis, at least on the MIC version of GID. The 'uh-uh-uh-uh-uhhh' bit, very Dennis-sounding.

[Mike's Beard]

Cut the flab off Summer Days(and Summer Nights!) and mentally replace with finished BB versions of Sherry and Guess I'm Dumb and you have a record equal to Today! and Pet Sounds.

[runnersdialzero]

Cut the flab off Summer Days(and Summer Nights!) and mentally replace with finished BB versions of Sherry and Guess I'm Dumb and you have a record equal to Today! and Pet Sounds.

What flab?

[drbeachboy]

Cut the flab off Summer Days(and Summer Nights!) and mentally replace with finished BB versions of Sherry and Guess I'm Dumb and you have a record equal to Today! and Pet Sounds.

What flab?

My two would be I'm Bugged At My Old Man, along with And Your Dream Comes True. Though I do like both of these songs, Sherry & Dumb would make better replacements.

[Mike's Beard]

I'd go with I'm Bugged at my Old Man and You're So Good to Me. Both awful songs.

[alf wiedersehen]

I'd have to choose "Salt Lake City" and "Amusement Parks U.S.A," which is a fine song, but doesn't fit so well.

[runnersdialzero]

I did a stereo mix of "Guess I'm Dumb" like a year ago and never posted it, likely because I was in the middle of the second of three moves within the last year and my brain was breaking even more than it already was at the time, but hay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWO1qPCawPI&feature=youtu.be

I doubt I'm the first to do it, and I see that someone else uploaded a stereo mix of it in the meantime, but hay. No idea why they didn't do a stereo mix of the song for MIC instead of just the track and backing vocals, maybe something to do with contracts and other bullshit, but it deserved a spot on there with Glen's lead over the track and backing vocals. Still nice that it's there at all, but yeah.

[runnersdialzero]

I'd go with I'm Bugged at my Old Man and You're So Good to Me. Both awful songs.

"Awful"? Jeez!

[EgoHanger1966]

Reading between the lines it appears none of the Beach Boys wanted to do the lead vocal, and the track was given to Glen Campbell as a thankyou to him in March 1965.

No lines to read between - this and "Sandy" were written to be given to Glen, they're not just Beach Boys outtakes. If Brian would have wanted it on a Beach Boys record, it would have been.

Interesting - never knew "Sandy" was to be Glen's. I'm guessing he never cut a vocal to it?

Is this an actual thing? Source, runnerz?

[mikeddonn]

I did a stereo mix of "Guess I'm Dumb" like a year ago and never posted it, likely because I was in the middle of the second of three moves within the last year and my brain was breaking even more than it already was at the time, but hay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWO1qPCawPI&feature=youtu.be

Love the stereo mix runners, cheers!

[runnersdialzero]

Reading between the lines it appears none of the Beach Boys wanted to do the lead vocal, and the track was given to Glen Campbell as a thankyou to him in March 1965.

No lines to read between - this and "Sandy" were written to be given to Glen, they're not just Beach Boys outtakes. If Brian would have wanted it on a Beach Boys record, it would have been.

Interesting - never knew "Sandy" was to be Glen's. I'm guessing he never cut a vocal to it?

Is this an actual thing? Source, runnerz?

Shoot, trying to find a source on this, but can't. It's one of those things that folks say around here and elsewhere that's seemingly kind of accepted as common knowledge, but I've never seen in a book or anything. Andrew? Anyone?

Anyway, I guess I should clarify that "Sandy" may not have been written specifically for Glen, but I swear it's been said "Sandy" and "Guess I'm Dumb" were submitted to him, but he only ever did a vocal for the latter for whatever reason. I believe those two songs were the only songs co-written by Brian and Russ Titelman, keep in mind, and it being intended for Glen would explain why there are backing vocals but no lead on "Sandy".

Glad you liked the mix, mikeddonn!

[puni puni]

The horns are incredible, yet this was recorded in October 1964. Brian was ahead of everyone at this point.

[37!ws]

Interesting - never knew "Sandy" was to be Glen's. I'm guessing he never cut a vocal to it?

Is this an actual thing? Source, runnerz?

Shoot, trying to find a source on this, but can't. It's one of those things that folks say around here and elsewhere that's seemingly kind of accepted as common knowledge, but I've never seen in a book or anything. Andrew? Anyone?

Anyway, I guess I should clarify that "Sandy" may not have been written specifically for Glen, but I swear it's been said "Sandy" and "Guess I'm Dumb" were submitted to him, but he only ever did a vocal for the latter for whatever reason. I believe those two songs were the only songs co-written by Brian and Russ Titelman, keep in mind, and it being intended for Glen would explain why there are backing vocals but no lead on "Sandy".
[/quote]

Considering that the existing background vocals for "Sandy" sound like, well, the entire band (including Bruce), I'd be surprised if the intention was to hand it off to Glen...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Never heard that "Sandy" was intended for Glen. Doesn't mean it wasn't, just that I've not heard anything to that effect since summer 1975. 

Thing is, the track for "GID" was recorded just over five months before the first stab at "Sherry".

[bgas]

Never heard that "Sandy" was intended for Glen. Doesn't mean it wasn't, just that I've not heard anything to that effect since summer 1975. 

   

TYha's what I was remembering (not that my memory is considered to be A-rated.)  but I figure the Sherry/Glen statement is a false memory somehow implanted in RDZero's brain. 

[TimeToGetAlone]

One thing that is worth mentioning that I haven't seen said is how the one vocal part of Had to Phone Ya is very much right out of Guess I'm Dumb.  I'm speaking of these two sections to be specific...

Guess I'm Dumb:

I'll give in when I know I should be strong
I still give in even though I know it's wrong, know it's wrong

Had to Phone Ya:

I visualize that you're looking fine
Feels so good when you come on the line

[Eric Aniversario]

Found this version on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bckSfcW0z3o

I have no idea what show this is, where this takes place, or who the singer is, but this is great!

[Nicko1234]

No lines to read between - this and "Sandy" were written to be given to Glen, they're not just Beach Boys outtakes. If Brian would have wanted it on a Beach Boys record, it would have been.

Not according to Glen. He stated that Guess I'm Dumb was intended for the Beach Boys but was 'off message' or words to that effect.