New Beach Boys release will make you 'SMiLE'

[Loaf]

Is someone close enough to Frank Holmes to ask/email him if Capitol have been in contact...?

I ordered the Smile artwork from his website years ago, but if Capitol are releasing a Smile set, then I also want that full-colour booklet with all the pictures.

[guitarfool2002]

Anyone know why Frank Holmes' site and email is down?

Frank had been selling Smile art prints from that site.  It's been down for months.

Rhetorical question... Has Capitol finally paid him so they have the rights to the original cover/booklet art?

Well, if Holmes owns the rights to the entire cover art (not just the drawings but the typography as well), I'd think that Capitol must have, as they're using the Beach Boys logo from the Smile cover on an official release.

Elementary!

Not elementary, rather inaccurate. - Frank had nothing to do with the title/artist typeface. Cam Mott established this some years ago.

Established some years ago and reinforced a few pages ago! 

It's amazing how much of this information enters and leaves the memory over the years, and I'm enjoying all the recent Smile talk as a chance to revisit some of the better conversations over the years. Hitsville!

[Jeff]

When was the child session in April? On AGD's site there are only 6 child sessions listed, all of them in 1966.

Maybe AGD can help here.  This is from memory, but the Child version that has the chirpy vocals and starts with that bit from Vegetables was recorded in April, I believe.  Maybe it was logged as a Vegetables session.

All I can say is that ever since I've been a hard-core BB fan/researcher/your synonym for geek here, I've never seen any documentation for a "CIFTOTM" session in April 1967... or indeed 1967 at all. Don't see why there should be, seeing as Brian has the track edited and mixed to mono in November 1966.

Also, the SOT 16 version begins with a bit that was only recorded for Vegetables in April or so (maybe March).  Maybe the SOT folks just tacked it on.  But otherwise, that certainly points to a spring recording date.

Alternatively, it points to 1) the 'leggers doing exactly what the producers of the box set did with a Smile fragment, i.e. tacking it on to another, completely unrelated song... or 2) seeing as the opening of the SOT 16 track is patently a demo/practise, it was recorded much earlier: the booklet, FWIW, states it's take 5 of part 1 - which apparently isn't listed on SOT 17. However, on SOT 17 disc two, said piano track for the chorus, sans vocals, is included (as 'unknown take'), with a count-in where the "Vega-tables" vocal part was fairly obviously later added by the 'leggers. Nothing here to support a 1967 date.

Anyway, I swear that I read a number of times that it was recorded in April (or maybe March or May) 1967, but as I say, I can't find specific evidence of this, so who knows.

I've never read anything like that, nor do I know anyone - barring your good self - who says they have.

Thanks Andrew.  Maybe I'm being dense, but didn't Real say in this very thread that it's his thinking that the SOT 16 Child, minus the short intro, was recorded in March?

In any case, to be clear, it sounds like you believe that the SOT 16 Child was from fall '66, and that there's no evidence of any recording being done in '67, correct?

[bgas]

Is someone close enough to Frank Holmes to ask/email him if Capitol have been in contact...?

I ordered the Smile artwork from his website years ago, but if Capitol are releasing a Smile set, then I also want that full-colour booklet with all the pictures.

No mystery as to Frank's site closing; it was easier for him to take it down than maintain it /constantly change prices, artwork,  etc.
Obviously his art wasn't used for Brian's Smile but he owns the  rights to all of it
It remains to be seen whether Capitol/ the BBs will decide to pay to use it for this summer's release.

[Andrew G. Doe]

When was the child session in April? On AGD's site there are only 6 child sessions listed, all of them in 1966.

Maybe AGD can help here.  This is from memory, but the Child version that has the chirpy vocals and starts with that bit from Vegetables was recorded in April, I believe.  Maybe it was logged as a Vegetables session.

All I can say is that ever since I've been a hard-core BB fan/researcher/your synonym for geek here, I've never seen any documentation for a "CIFTOTM" session in April 1967... or indeed 1967 at all. Don't see why there should be, seeing as Brian has the track edited and mixed to mono in November 1966.

Also, the SOT 16 version begins with a bit that was only recorded for Vegetables in April or so (maybe March).  Maybe the SOT folks just tacked it on.  But otherwise, that certainly points to a spring recording date.

Alternatively, it points to 1) the 'leggers doing exactly what the producers of the box set did with a Smile fragment, i.e. tacking it on to another, completely unrelated song... or 2) seeing as the opening of the SOT 16 track is patently a demo/practise, it was recorded much earlier: the booklet, FWIW, states it's take 5 of part 1 - which apparently isn't listed on SOT 17. However, on SOT 17 disc two, said piano track for the chorus, sans vocals, is included (as 'unknown take'), with a count-in where the "Vega-tables" vocal part was fairly obviously later added by the 'leggers. Nothing here to support a 1967 date.

Anyway, I swear that I read a number of times that it was recorded in April (or maybe March or May) 1967, but as I say, I can't find specific evidence of this, so who knows.

I've never read anything like that, nor do I know anyone - barring your good self - who says they have.

Thanks Andrew.  Maybe I'm being dense, but didn't Real say in this very thread that it's his thinking that the SOT 16 Child, minus the short intro, was recorded in March?

In any case, to be clear, it sounds like you believe that the SOT 16 Child was from fall '66, and that there's no evidence of any recording being done in '67, correct?

Correct.

[The Shift]

Is someone close enough to Frank Holmes to ask/email him if Capitol have been in contact...?

CAnnot claim to be close but did share the odd email in 2005. 

Just sent an email but the old address bounced. If any one can supply a current one (perhaps best by PM) I'd happily resend. 

Basically an invite to come and post here so we can all learn.

[bgas]

Is someone close enough to Frank Holmes to ask/email him if Capitol have been in contact...?

CAnnot claim to be close but did share the odd email in 2005.  

Just sent an email but the old address bounced. If any one can supply a current one (perhaps best by PM) I'd happily resend.  

Basically an invite to come and post here so we can all learn.

Here, I'll repost it, so you don't have to go back up the hill:  

No mystery as to Frank's site closing; it was easier for him to take it down than maintain it /constantly change prices, artwork,  etc.
Obviously his art wasn't used for Brian's Smile but he owns the  rights to all of it
It remains to be seen whether Capitol/ the BBs will decide to pay to use it for this summer's release.
Frank is a 'private" guy and would rather not be bothered with intrusions to his life

[The Shift]

Is someone close enough to Frank Holmes to ask/email him if Capitol have been in contact...?

CAnnot claim to be close but did share the odd email in 2005. 

Just sent an email but the old address bounced. If any one can supply a current one (perhaps best by PM) I'd happily resend. 

Basically an invite to come and post here so we can all learn.

Here, I'll repost it, so you don't have to go back up the hill: 

No mystery as to Frank's site closing; it was easier for him to take it down than maintain it /constantly change prices, artwork,  etc.
Obviously his art wasn't used for Brian's Smile but he owns the  rights to all of it
It remains to be seen whether Capitol/ the BBs will decide to pay to use it for this summer's release.
Frank is a 'private" guy and would rather not be bothered with intrusions to his life

Ouch!

[bgas]

Is someone close enough to Frank Holmes to ask/email him if Capitol have been in contact...?

CAnnot claim to be close but did share the odd email in 2005. 

Just sent an email but the old address bounced. If any one can supply a current one (perhaps best by PM) I'd happily resend. 

Basically an invite to come and post here so we can all learn.

Here, I'll repost it, so you don't have to go back up the hill: 

No mystery as to Frank's site closing; it was easier for him to take it down than maintain it /constantly change prices, artwork,  etc.
Obviously his art wasn't used for Brian's Smile but he owns the  rights to all of it
It remains to be seen whether Capitol/ the BBs will decide to pay to use it for this summer's release.
Frank is a 'private" guy and would rather not be bothered with intrusions to his life

Ouch!

Not meaning to sound "testy".( I can see it coming across that way) But I don't think a SMiLEy would have conveyed the right sense. 

[Jason]

Let me try and express what I've been trying to post a little better, now that I'm actually sitting down with some spare time to properly articulate these thoughts and a more detailed list of dates (AGD's website) and recordings.

The CIFOTM track on SOT 16, as far as I'm aware, is definitely a "fan mix", so to speak. It's by no means a true Brian mix.

The first part of the track, roughly the first 52 seconds, with the "bop bop bop bop" vocals over a piano chord and the rather creepy "child child father of the man" vocal refrain over a piano track is the referenced bit in my previous posts. After a little more digging and closer listening, the "bop bop bop bop" vocals are indeed a Vega-Tables bit tacked on to the beginning of the track (first 5 seconds), almost verbatim from SOT 17, disc 2, track 36 ("Vega-Tables (various mix rehearsals)"), minus the studio chatter. The remainder of this fragment (roughly 46 seconds) is the "child child father of the man" refrain over a piano track. The undubbed take of this section, with just the piano track and Brian's count-off, is on SOT 17, disc 2, track 4 ("Child Is Father Of The Man (take unknown)"). Essentially, this section of the SOT 16 CIFOTM is the same as the CIFOTM session on SOT 17 referenced in my previous sentence, with the vocal overdubs.

Taking stock of the aforementioned sections, I don't have solid evidence of these dates but I think they're pretty close within a day or two after having cross-referenced with Andrew's website.

The first 5 seconds of this 52 second fragment are definitely from sometime during the Vega-Tables sessions in April, although there's little idea as to what was recorded when. The remaining 46 seconds, I think, are either from one of the sessions logged as Tones in mid-March of 1967, produced by Brian, or from the 4/11/67 Tones (Part 3)/Vega-Tables session. Possibly this "second Child" was an attempt at another possible fragment for Vega-Tables, but I don't know that any more than Brian or the other Boys.

[The Shift]

Not meaning to sound "testy".( I can see it coming across that way) But I don't think a SMiLEy would have conveyed the right sense. 

No worries, at all. Appreciate being hauled up before I butted in on his breakfast!   

I do, really do, hope that we get to see his artwork on this release (if this release comes to pass) and that he derives some real pleasure from seeing it out there legitimately and in context.

[juggler]

Obviously his art wasn't used for Brian's Smile but he owns the  rights to all of it
It remains to be seen whether Capitol/ the BBs will decide to pay to use it for this summer's release.

Well, I think it would be a HUGE disappointment if Capitol/BRI finally releases an official BB Smile and it doesn't include the Holmes art.  And, frankly, it'd be insane marketing.  The Smile shop has been the face of the project for more than 44 freakin' years!

[Dove Nested Towers]

Anyone know why Frank Holmes' site and email is down?

Frank had been selling Smile art prints from that site.  It's been down for months.

Rhetorical question... Has Capitol finally paid him so they have the rights to the original cover/booklet art?

Well, if Holmes owns the rights to the entire cover art (not just the drawings but the typography as well), I'd think that Capitol must have, as they're using the Beach Boys logo from the Smile cover on an official release.

Elementary!

Not elementary, rather inaccurate. - Frank had nothing to do with the title/artist typeface. Cam Mott established this some years ago.

Interesting. First instinct was that  that typeface was part and parcel of the Smile Shop artwork. On second thought, the artwork and the lettering font could/would logically be 2 separate entities.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The remaining 46 seconds, I think, are either from one of the sessions logged as Tones in mid-March of 1967, produced by Brian, or from the 4/11/67 Tones (Part 3)/Vega-Tables session.

With regard to the highlighted phrase, I have to apologise for setting it down in a misleading manner, i.e making it seem like one session when it was actually two, at different studios.

"Tones (pt.3)" was a 2.00-5.00pm session at Western, followed by the session for "Vega-Tables" vocals at Sound Recorders.

[The Shift]

Obviously his art wasn't used for Brian's Smile but he owns the  rights to all of it
It remains to be seen whether Capitol/ the BBs will decide to pay to use it for this summer's release.

Well, I think it would be a HUGE disappointment if Capitol/BRI finally releases an official BB Smile and it doesn't include the Holmes art.  And, frankly, it'd be insane marketing.  The Smile shop has been the face of the project for more than 44 freakin' years!

It's part of the project's very essence. In fact, a tie-in glossy art book featuring the pics in the best-possible clarity, along with other studio pics and others from that era would be a cool accompaniment.

[Jeff]

Let me try and express what I've been trying to post a little better, now that I'm actually sitting down with some spare time to properly articulate these thoughts and a more detailed list of dates (AGD's website) and recordings.

The CIFOTM track on SOT 16, as far as I'm aware, is definitely a "fan mix", so to speak. It's by no means a true Brian mix.

The first part of the track, roughly the first 52 seconds, with the "bop bop bop bop" vocals over a piano chord and the rather creepy "child child father of the man" vocal refrain over a piano track is the referenced bit in my previous posts. After a little more digging and closer listening, the "bop bop bop bop" vocals are indeed a Vega-Tables bit tacked on to the beginning of the track (first 5 seconds), almost verbatim from SOT 17, disc 2, track 36 ("Vega-Tables (various mix rehearsals)"), minus the studio chatter. The remainder of this fragment (roughly 46 seconds) is the "child child father of the man" refrain over a piano track. The undubbed take of this section, with just the piano track and Brian's count-off, is on SOT 17, disc 2, track 4 ("Child Is Father Of The Man (take unknown)"). Essentially, this section of the SOT 16 CIFOTM is the same as the CIFOTM session on SOT 17 referenced in my previous sentence, with the vocal overdubs.

Taking stock of the aforementioned sections, I don't have solid evidence of these dates but I think they're pretty close within a day or two after having cross-referenced with Andrew's website.

The first 5 seconds of this 52 second fragment are definitely from sometime during the Vega-Tables sessions in April, although there's little idea as to what was recorded when. The remaining 46 seconds, I think, are either from one of the sessions logged as Tones in mid-March of 1967, produced by Brian, or from the 4/11/67 Tones (Part 3)/Vega-Tables session. Possibly this "second Child" was an attempt at another possible fragment for Vega-Tables, but I don't know that any more than Brian or the other Boys.

Thanks Real and AGD - I really appreciate your insights.

[PhilCohen]

"Smile" is back on again, according to Billboard. a 2-CD set, an iTunes "LP" and a 4-CD + 2 L.P. + 2 vinyl single set. The presentation of the "Smile" album will be mixed in mono, and the session bonus tracks will be mixed in stereo. "Later This Year" is all that Capitol executives will say. The contents have not been finalised.

[Blake Alan]

Here's the link:
http://www.billboard.com/news/beach-boys-lost-smile-album-to-see-release-1005070202.story#/news/beach-boys-lost-smile-album-to-see-release-1005070202.story

[guitarfool2002]

Let the games begin! This is good news. 

[theCOD]

I want it NOW.

[guitarfool2002]

Linett says Wilson's 2004 "Smile" album has served as a blueprint for the current project

This statement should get the debates going...

[The Shift]

Superb.  Many thanks for alerting us all to that guys. Much appreciated.

4 CDs, eh?

And let's hope Dom sticks to the facts as they're known, or as they can be gleaned from the band, rather than heading off into fantasyland!!!   

As for the "album", such as it is being mono, that's fine with me, as otherwise there'll be nothing new to release for the 50th anniversary Deluxe edition in January 2017.

[guitarfool2002]

Could this also mean a chance to see more of the glorious Jasper Daily and Guy Webster photographs from the sessions, perhaps some new or previously unseen shots? As much as I'm excited for the music itself I'm very excited to see the other goodies included with this release.

[Runaways]

i've been saying "OH GOD OH GOD" for like 2 mins straight now.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Smile" is back on again, according to Billboard. a 2-CD set, an iTunes "LP" and a 4-CD + 2 L.P. + 2 vinyl single set. The presentation of the "Smile" album will be mixed in mono, and the session bonus tracks will be mixed in stereo. "Later This Year" is all that Capitol executives will say. The contents have not been finalised.

You were saying about us clinging to our fantasies ?  I may just mosey on over to the Hoffman board and say something pointed about people who claim they "know the scoop". As Bugs would have it, what a maroon.