Smile reference

[The Heartical Don]

But... Paul's reason for being in the US wasn't to blow people's minds or promote the forthcoming album - he was there because Jane was on tour with a theatre company.

  great call, that is a fine reality check.

[TdHabib]

There's a very moving bit from Paul's Ooba Joobu radio show where he has Brian on and Brian talks about when he first met Paul. He goes right into a few lines of "She's Leaving Home," getting most of the words wrong but it's actually really touching. Also, when Brian toured the first run of TLOS, he did a cover version of SLH and he does a nice little intro to it where he talks about the meeting again, to my ears he isn't reading off the teleprompter for that.

[guitarfool2002]

And to add a bit more to the reasons why Paul McCartney was in the US in April '67, this was reported in a fanzine from early May 1967 (paraphrase):

Paul was there to spend time with Jane before and after her 21st birthday, as she was on tour with the Old Vic.

So *that* makes more sense and adds some context to the whole trip, other than McCartney flying to the US to catch her on a regular scheduled theatre tour. It was to meet her on the occasion of celebrating her milestone 21st birthday! Nice to have a boyfriend who can afford to fly from Paris to the US to be with you!

And, in that same mag, it reported the Beatles had set a deadline of early April to finish the album, but they ran over schedule so there were orchestral overdubs recorded after McCartney had flown to meet Jane. However, the mag reported the overdubs as having been needed on "She's Leaving Home" when the song which needed orchestral overdubs was "Within You Without You", and that brilliant orchestral part was added while Paul was in the US.

As far as the Smile connection - another thing to note is that Peter Brown's book from the early 80's reported that Brian was working on "The Four Elements Suite" when Paul visited Los Angeles, which would make sense if "Vega-Tables" was still considered part of Brian's "Elements" in April '67.

And also Brown's book suggests the whole reason for the trip was Paul spending time with Jane on her birthday, adding he made several stopovers including San Francisco where he met with the Jefferson Airplane, Los Angeles to meet John and Cass as well as Brian, and he did it all in Sinatra's private jet which Brian Epstein had arranged for him to use. The funny insider story is that Epstein had set it up so Paul could stay in a rental house but the orders were mistakenly made to rent a house in "San Diego" rather than "San Francisco", and the San Diego house was booked for a month at a high cost and never used.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As far as the Smile connection - another thing to note is that Peter Brown's book from the early 80's reported that Brian was working on "The Four Elements Suite" when Paul visited Los Angeles, which would make sense if "Vega-Tables" was still considered part of Brian's "Elements" in April '67.

If. And according to the handwritten note in December, irrespective of who wrote it, by then it wasn't part of "The Elements". I don't consider Brown's recollections credible.

[bgas]

As far as the Smile connection - another thing to note is that Peter Brown's book from the early 80's reported that Brian was working on "The Four Elements Suite" when Paul visited Los Angeles, which would make sense if "Vega-Tables" was still considered part of Brian's "Elements" in April '67.

If. And according to the handwritten note in December, irrespective of who wrote it, by then it wasn't part of "The Elements". I don't consider Brown's recollections credible.

What book is this?( I may have missed the name reference in this thread if it was noted) and I tried googling peter brown, but didn't see any references to a book noting Brian.

[Alex]

The vibe of the page is kinda like this...Paul was hanging out with all the cool freaked out kids in the USA and they were saying the Beatles aint hip and into it.. so he plays a tape of A day in the life and they freak out ..

So Paul just happened to have a tape of "ADITL" with him, huh ?  Yeah... right... 

I thought Billy Shears...um, I mean, Macca, played an acetate, not a tape, of ADITL for Brian.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As far as the Smile connection - another thing to note is that Peter Brown's book from the early 80's reported that Brian was working on "The Four Elements Suite" when Paul visited Los Angeles, which would make sense if "Vega-Tables" was still considered part of Brian's "Elements" in April '67.

If. And according to the handwritten note in December, irrespective of who wrote it, by then it wasn't part of "The Elements". I don't consider Brown's recollections credible.

What book is this?( I may have missed the name reference in this thread if it was noted) and I tried googling peter brown, but didn't see any references to a book noting Brian.

The Love You Make by Peter Brown & Steve Gaines.

And to be fair, I didn't use Google this time. Amazon works much better for books.   

[guitarfool2002]

Here's the thing about Brown's entry on Brian: Gaines also wrote the oft-discussed Heroes And Villains bio in the 80's. How long was he researching that book? Long enough to know about Brian and "The Elements"? If so, can anyone think of another reference to Smile's "Elements" as "The Four Elements Suite"? I've never heard of that title used anywhere else but the Brown/Gaines book (in my hardcover copy it's on page 241).

Obviously Gaines wasn't there, Brown wasn't there, and only Paul and Mal and whoever else was meeting them in LA that day (and it was apparently only one day Paul spent in Los Angeles) can speak with authority. But it could be a case of Brown remembering a conversation with Paul where Paul or Mal mentioned they had seen Brian working on "The Four Elements Suite" when they met him that day.

The confusing part is indeed the "if", because the vegetables theme was something they were chanting about in Fall '66 in the studio, and they basically "chanted" about every other element that day except Fire! 

Again, pure speculation but fun speculation.

And what exactly did Paul do with the Jefferson Airplane? Are there reports from Jorma or Jack or someone else of Paul playing Pepper mixes for *them*? I never looked that up at all. The fact he was in Los Angeles gets overblown a bit in the history I think, because Paul was flying back and forth in Sinatra's jet to see Jane's performances and Los Angeles was only one day out of the whole thing.

[Stephen Newcombe]

No, here is what really happened

Brian returned to the studio to pick up some tapes late one night  in Jan 67. He is startled to find Paul McCartney with an sackfull of SMiLE tapes, climbing out of the window.
The two grapple, and Paul manages to escape with the vocal sessions for Look, and Surfs Up section II.
Brian bursts into tears, and the rest is history.....

[Bicyclerider]

Here's the thing about Brown's entry on Brian: Gaines also wrote the oft-discussed Heroes And Villains bio in the 80's. How long was he researching that book? Long enough to know about Brian and "The Elements"? If so, can anyone think of another reference to Smile's "Elements" as "The Four Elements Suite"? I've never heard of that title used anywhere else but the Brown/Gaines book (in my hardcover copy it's on page 241).

Obviously Gaines wasn't there, Brown wasn't there, and only Paul and Mal and whoever else was meeting them in LA that day (and it was apparently only one day Paul spent in Los Angeles) can speak with authority. But it could be a case of Brown remembering a conversation with Paul where Paul or Mal mentioned they had seen Brian working on "The Four Elements Suite" when they met him that day.

The confusing part is indeed the "if", because the vegetables theme was something they were chanting about in Fall '66 in the studio, and they basically "chanted" about every other element that day except Fire! 

Again, pure speculation but fun speculation.

And what exactly did Paul do with the Jefferson Airplane? Are there reports from Jorma or Jack or someone else of Paul playing Pepper mixes for *them*? I never looked that up at all. The fact he was in Los Angeles gets overblown a bit in the history I think, because Paul was flying back and forth in Sinatra's jet to see Jane's performances and Los Angeles was only one day out of the whole thing.

See Dominic's LLVS - there's a contemporary journalist quote from March/April 67 (if I remember correctly) that calls it "The Elements Suite" and mentions four parts.  Also says the album is essentially done except for that one song, which is giving Brian trouble or something to that effect.  One reason why I think Dada may have been an attempt to continue work on The Elements.  Also, doesn't Byron Preiss refer to both an Elements suite and a Barnyard suite?

The fact that Paul was using his trip with Jane to connect with other musicians and preview Pepper is just a reflection of Paul's ability to multitask.  I'm sure he was curious to see what Brian was up to, after inspiring Pepper with his previous LP Pet Sounds!  I'm not sure Paul was responsible for this, but the Doors got an advance acetate/tape copy of Pepper prior to release and it inspired Strange Days, and David Crosby heard I believe A Day in the Life before the album came out - most likely through Derek Taylor.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

There's an old Beatles documentary from the 80's called 'The Complete Beatles',  and when they get to  Sgt. Pepper, they have a couple of different people making statements about it. They show Bruce, and he says 'We were sitting around congratulating ourselves about having a bunch of hits, and then somebody played us the acetate of Sgt. Pepper'. Or something to that effect.

[Andrew G. Doe]

See Dominic's LLVS - there's a contemporary journalist quote from March/April 67 (if I remember correctly) that calls it "The Elements Suite" and mentions four parts.  

Um, if I was given just the title "The Elements Suite", I'd probably think there were four parts, and Sherlock Holmes I'm not.  

but the Doors got an advance acetate/tape copy of Pepper prior to release and it inspired Strange Days

Strange Days was recorded May-August 1967: however, all the songs date from 1965-66, so any influence would be in the production, and while it's a step up from The Doors in that respect, that's largely due to using an 8-track studio, and having a 'proper' bass player.

[guitarfool2002]

The mention of Derek Taylor brings up a major factor in all of these happenings - the fact that Derek Taylor was involved with all these people! A publicist is hired as much for who he knows as what he'll say about you, and Derek Taylor was indeed the traveling ambassador who was connecting all these people, whether directly or simply by association. With Brian, it was incredible how Derek Taylor put him into the company of the upper-echelon of hipness, and having Brian meet certain people, be invited to and host parties with these individuals, and be associated with them cannot be underestimated in the whole story.

Monterey Pop - that was Derek Taylor. Brian being put on the "Board Of Directors" or whatever they called it - Derek was one of the minds behind the whole thing, it was natural to associate his most powerful clients with the concert.

Derek Taylor also had access to two things at the time which very few did: Smile sessions and Sgt. Pepper mixes. No doubt he was spreading the word among all his contacts, and making some of those connections.

He was clearly the messenger. If someone like a David Crosby received a copy of Pepper prior to the release, I'd almost guarantee it had passed though Derek Taylor's hands. I'm betting he also had a hand in scheduling Paul's visit to the studio to meet Brian in April 67.

It's also possible to sense his own disappointment in his press release announcing Smile's demise, and it was revealing to read his own thoughts on Brian after his working relationship with him had been dissolved.

[Cam Mott]

The mention of Derek Taylor brings up a major factor in all of these happenings - the fact that Derek Taylor was involved with all these people! A publicist is hired as much for who he knows as what he'll say about you, and Derek Taylor was indeed the traveling ambassador who was connecting all these people, whether directly or simply by association. With Brian, it was incredible how Derek Taylor put him into the company of the upper-echelon of hipness, and having Brian meet certain people, be invited to and host parties with these individuals, and be associated with them cannot be underestimated in the whole story.

Monterey Pop - that was Derek Taylor. Brian being put on the "Board Of Directors" or whatever they called it - Derek was one of the minds behind the whole thing, it was natural to associate his most powerful clients with the concert.

Derek Taylor also had access to two things at the time which very few did: Smile sessions and Sgt. Pepper mixes. No doubt he was spreading the word among all his contacts, and making some of those connections.

He was clearly the messenger. If someone like a David Crosby received a copy of Pepper prior to the release, I'd almost guarantee it had passed though Derek Taylor's hands. I'm betting he also had a hand in scheduling Paul's visit to the studio to meet Brian in April 67.

It's also possible to sense his own disappointment in his press release announcing Smile's demise, and it was revealing to read his own thoughts on Brian after his working relationship with him had been dissolved.

I think all of these things are probably true but I think in April Taylor was operating purely as a correspondent, friend, scenemaker and whatever he was to the Monterey Pop. He had said that he had dropped all his clients as publicist at the end of 1966. I don't know if it makes any difference except it may have left him freer to hand off samples and swap secrets.

[guitarfool2002]

Yet some accounts say he was still being paid by groups like the Byrds as well as the Monterey Pop festival as a publicist in 1967. Derek Taylor may have dropped all of his clients as an official publicist but he had to be making enough of a living doing (freelance?) what he was doing having moved to California by  April 1967. In June 1967 alone, I believe he was tripping in the back seat of Lennon's car listening to Procol Harum during the Sgt. Pepper release party one week, and the next week he was doing whatever he did around organizing Monterey Pop. And he was also working in some capacity for Brian and/or Brother because he issued the statement about Smile being "scrapped" that same spring. Or was he just working/writing as a freelance columnist at that point?

Interesting - whatever he was doing, he was at the center of all these goings-on at that time: Smile, Pepper, Monterey, Byrds, etc.

[Bicyclerider]

Strange Days was recorded May-August 1967: however, all the songs date from 1965-66, so any influence would be in the production, and while it's a step up from The Doors in that respect, that's largely due to using an 8-track studio, and having a 'proper' bass player.

Well not all - at least Strange Days, You're Lost Little Girl, and Love Me Two Times were newer than 65-66.  The first known performances of People are Strange, Unhappy Girl and When the Music's Over were March 67 at the Matrix, and may very well have been written in 67 - or not.  Of course most of the songs came from Jim's notebooks so ALL the lyrics may have been much older than the songs.

But you are correct - Paul Rothchild's production was Pepper influenced on several of the tracks (Unhappy Girl, Strange Days, Horse Latitudes), with the enthusiastic cooperation of the band.