Smile reference

[18thofMay]

The new book FAB an Intimate life of Paul McCartney by Howard Souness makes this reference to Brian Wilson and smile! Travelling with Mal in Frank Sinatra's private Jet to LA where he met Brian Wilson, who was so overwhelmed at hearing the new Sgt Pepper tape that he abandoned the new Beach Boys album Smile. Paul then flew home coming up with a new idea for a movie....
The Sgt Pepper tape he played Brian was  "A Day in the Life". Paul had already played for a few stoners on the Height Ashbury strip..Well thats what it say's in the book. on page 170...

[Mikie]

How many on this board believe that one of the main reasons Brian abandoned Smile was because he heard a song from Sgt. Pepper's, specifically "A Day In The Life"? I know Van Dyke said that when Brian heard it, it "broke his heart". Do you think Brian totally lost his competitive spirit after hearing one song? First he heard Revolver and was inspired to write Pet Sounds. Did he really throw in the towel, thinking that he couldn't beat (or at least equal) that with Smile??

[Smilin Ed H]

Authorised bio?  Souness is a biographer, not a music writer (though his Dylan book was pretty good).

[Andrew G. Doe]

How many on this board believe that one of the main reasons Brian abandoned Smile was because he heard a song from Sgt. Pepper's, specifically "A Day In The Life"? I know Van Dyke said that when Brian heard it, it "broke his heart". Do you think Brian totally lost his competitive spirit after hearing one song? First he heard Revolver and was inspired to write Pet Sounds. Did he really throw in the towel, thinking that he couldn't beat (or at least equal) that with Smile??

Depending on who you read, the song he played was either "ADITL" or "She's Leaving Home", after the legendary "Vegetables" session of April 1967, on a piano in the studio (not a tape). Knowing Macca's melodic bent, I'd bet more on it being "SLH".

[A Million Units In Jan!]

How many on this board believe that one of the main reasons Brian abandoned Smile was because he heard a song from Sgt. Pepper's, specifically "A Day In The Life"? I know Van Dyke said that when Brian heard it, it "broke his heart". Do you think Brian totally lost his competitive spirit after hearing one song? First he heard Revolver and was inspired to write Pet Sounds. Did he really throw in the towel, thinking that he couldn't beat (or at least equal) that with Smile??

Depending on who you read, the song he played was either "ADITL" or "She's Leaving Home", after the legendary "Vegetables" session of April 1967, on a piano in the studio (not a tape). Knowing Macca's melodic bent, I'd bet more on it being "SLH".

And, it has been told that upon hearing SLH, Marilyn broke down in tears at it's beauty.
I don't buy that he stopped SMiLE after hearing anything from SPLHCB, or Strawberry Fields. I think that by April his attitude towards the whole album had already changed, and I really don't buy the Michael Vosse story about him hearing Sgt. Pepper and being so blown away by it he had to pull over onto the side of the road. These are just my opinions, not facts.

[18thofMay]

The vibe of the page is kinda like this...Paul was hanging out with all the cool freaked out kids in the USA and they were saying the Beatles aint hip and into it.. so he plays a tape of A day in the life and they freak out .. Then he flies to LA play it to Brian and he hears this crazy new wacked out Beatles music played by Paul on a tape and abandons Smile. I have heard Brian say that she's leaving home was played by Paul on piano in the studio to him..
But this book which is decent sized book mentions Brian once and it is to emphasize his reaction to Pepper..  lennon's biographies make little or nil reference to Brian. Nor does the Barry Miles bio on Paul. keiths new book mentions Brian twice pays a little respect to him, but where is the love??

[Andrew G. Doe]

The vibe of the page is kinda like this...Paul was hanging out with all the cool freaked out kids in the USA and they were saying the Beatles aint hip and into it.. so he plays a tape of A day in the life and they freak out ..

So Paul just happened to have a tape of "ADITL" with him, huh ?  Yeah... right... 

[18thofMay]

Page 170....In black and white!!

[A Million Units In Jan!]

In a Keith Moon biography I read, it talked about how when Keith first heard Pet Sounds, he hated it (as most everyone knows he was a huge early BB's fan), and somehow it's slipped in there that Brian heard Pepper, and went home and went crazy trying to catch up to The Beatles. So you can't believe everything you read!

[The Shift]

Page 170....In black and white!!

Must be true then.

[Mikie]

Yeah, I thought it was "She's Leaving Home" that Paul played Brian and Marilyn in the studio. And that they both cried when they heard it. Unless it was another occassion, I didn't know Paul played "A Day In The Life" for Brian. That would have been a tape that Paul played, because supposedly he played the same tape for a group of people in San Francisco a few days before in 1967. What are you gonna believe?

[The Heartical Don]

How many on this board believe that one of the main reasons Brian abandoned Smile was because he heard a song from Sgt. Pepper's, specifically "A Day In The Life"? I know Van Dyke said that when Brian heard it, it "broke his heart". Do you think Brian totally lost his competitive spirit after hearing one song? First he heard Revolver and was inspired to write Pet Sounds. Did he really throw in the towel, thinking that he couldn't beat (or at least equal) that with Smile??

Depending on who you read, the song he played was either "ADITL" or "She's Leaving Home", after the legendary "Vegetables" session of April 1967, on a piano in the studio (not a tape). Knowing Macca's melodic bent, I'd bet more on it being "SLH".

And, it has been told that upon hearing SLH, Marilyn broke down in tears at it's beauty.
I don't buy that he stopped SMiLE after hearing anything from SPLHCB, or Strawberry Fields. I think that by April his attitude towards the whole album had already changed, and I really don't buy the Michael Vosse story about him hearing Sgt. Pepper and being so blown away by it he had to pull over onto the side of the road. These are just my opinions, not facts.

I feel the same. Pop journalism is fond of this type of myth-mongering. Emotional drama, people breaking down and collapsing after hearing a new song by someone else... it just sells, folks. Also: nice material for new screenplays. It just sounds better than: after hearing She's Leaving Home, Brian went to the loo and then ordered a pizza by phone. And thought about a new song called: Holidays.

[guitarfool2002]

If a story seems pumped up a bit too much in a biography, official or unofficial, then it probably was pumped up for dramatic effect. It's standard, and books are worse offenders than magazines/interviews (IMO).

But the Vosse comments were specifically about the time they heard "Strawberry Fields Forever", as they were driving in a car, and the implication was that Brian thought the Beatles had done with Strawberry Fields what he had been trying to do with his then-current Smile tracks, exactly *what* that was I think was left for speculation. Wasn't the end of the story the image of Vosse and Brian laughing in the car?

For the record, I think Michael Vosse is one of the primary sources of what could be the closest thing to the truth on the whole Smile saga, at least while he was there in the eye of the storm during all of it. The article/history Vosse had published in "Fusion" stands to me as one of the most accurate and informative documents of that whole saga, and it's one not corrupted by time or by other outside biases or factors. Point by point in that article, Vosse tells the story the way it was from his view. Are any of his descriptions in that article, now that we have heard and seen a lot more of the stuff he's describing, inaccurate or overblown? Or has his telling of various events been proven wrong in the near-40 years since the article appeared?

So if a Michael Vosse says they were listening to Strawberry Fields in the car, I believe it. Most of the other beefed-up stories are too close to that biopic of the BB's that shows a bearded Brian clutching a copy of Sgt. Pepper, wearing headphones, and zoning out as Jimi Hendrix at Monterey appears on the screen.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Always said this, always will - the Vosse Fusion piece is as significant for what he doesn't say as for what he says. And yes, unquestionably one of the primary Smile codexes, up there with the Outlaw Blues piece and "Goodbye Surfing' Hello God !".

[Sam_BFC]

What sort of things do you mean that Vosse did NOT say?

It just sounds better than: after hearing She's Leaving Home, Brian went to the loo and then ordered a pizza by phone. And thought about a new song called: Holidays.

That sounds great to me 

[guitarfool2002]

Always said this, always will - the Vosse Fusion piece is as significant for what he doesn't say as for what he says. And yes, unquestionably one of the primary Smile codexes, up there with the Outlaw Blues piece and "Goodbye Surfing' Hello God !".

I'd also include Vosse's "Teen Set" piece where he describes the chanting sessions and other goings-on at that time as among the best primary sources for the history of it all, and it's mostly unbiased with just a bit of hype. But again, like Fusion, nearly everything he described turned out to be true! I also like to consider those pieces he describes which we may not be sure we've heard in some form.

It intrigues me, and I'm really curious, can you give a hint of something Vosse didn't say which should be considered? I'm always about looking at every angle, and that's one I'd really like to consider. I know Mark Volman for one was *very* hesitant and practically refused to talk about it in one interview where Smile and the airport photo came up, and there was a side of the story which seemed to be bubbling/boiling under the whole saga which upset Volman and which, seemingly, no one will address. I'm genuinely interested in this!

[Cam Mott]

Always said this, always will - the Vosse Fusion piece is as significant for what he doesn't say as for what he says. And yes, unquestionably one of the primary Smile codexes, up there with the Outlaw Blues piece and "Goodbye Surfing' Hello God !".

I'd also include Vosse's "Teen Set" piece where he describes the chanting sessions and other goings-on at that time as among the best primary sources for the history of it all, and it's mostly unbiased with just a bit of hype. But again, like Fusion, nearly everything he described turned out to be true! I also like to consider those pieces he describes which we may not be sure we've heard in some form.

It intrigues me, and I'm really curious, can you give a hint of something Vosse didn't say which should be considered? I'm always about looking at every angle, and that's one I'd really like to consider. I know Mark Volman for one was *very* hesitant and practically refused to talk about it in one interview where Smile and the airport photo came up, and there was a side of the story which seemed to be bubbling/boiling under the whole saga which upset Volman and which, seemingly, no one will address. I'm genuinely interested in this!

I'll bet it is a lack of the Boys being confrontational with Brian. When I asked him directly if he witnessed any of that, he did not. He presumed that the Boys were suspicious of him and the Posse but he actually did not have as much contact with the Boys as you would think [as I thought]. The same with Jules Siegel, didn't witness anything, presumed suspicion, had less contact then you/I imagine.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Always said this, always will - the Vosse Fusion piece is as significant for what he doesn't say as for what he says. And yes, unquestionably one of the primary Smile codexes, up there with the Outlaw Blues piece and "Goodbye Surfing' Hello God !".

I'd also include Vosse's "Teen Set" piece where he describes the chanting sessions and other goings-on at that time as among the best primary sources for the history of it all, and it's mostly unbiased with just a bit of hype. But again, like Fusion, nearly everything he described turned out to be true! I also like to consider those pieces he describes which we may not be sure we've heard in some form.

It intrigues me, and I'm really curious, can you give a hint of something Vosse didn't say which should be considered? I'm always about looking at every angle, and that's one I'd really like to consider. I know Mark Volman for one was *very* hesitant and practically refused to talk about it in one interview where Smile and the airport photo came up, and there was a side of the story which seemed to be bubbling/boiling under the whole saga which upset Volman and which, seemingly, no one will address. I'm genuinely interested in this!

I'll bet it is a lack of the Boys being confrontational with Brian. When I asked him directly if he witnessed any of that, he did not. He presumed that the Boys were suspicious of him and the Posse but he actually did not have as much contact with the Boys as you would think [as I thought]. The same with Jules Siegel, didn't witness anything, presumed suspicion, had less contact then you/I imagine.

I had always thought that Jules Siegel was right there in the middle of it all as a semi-member of the 'Vosse Posse'. I felt that way until I read something somewhere not that long ago where David Anderle says something about Jules portraying this image of being 'in the circle' when he really wasn't.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It intrigues me, and I'm really curious, can you give a hint of something Vosse didn't say which should be considered? I'm always about looking at every angle, and that's one I'd really like to consider. I know Mark Volman for one was *very* hesitant and practically refused to talk about it in one interview where Smile and the airport photo came up, and there was a side of the story which seemed to be bubbling/boiling under the whole saga which upset Volman and which, seemingly, no one will address. I'm genuinely interested in this!

There have been several assumptions by commentators that have been repeated so often that they've assumed the status of, if not exactly fact, then a widely held belief. In the Fusion piece, Vosse (who as has been rightly noted was about as close to the proceedings as you could get without having the initials BDW or VDP) doesn't, as far as I can recall, so much as even hint that they might have some credibility. Or indeed, mention them at all.

If you like, it's like the dog that didn't bark - because it wasn't there. Purely my own opinion, but I've always considered some of the higher-flown theories about Smile have less to do with what actually happened than with what various people - myself included - wanted to have happened. History is seldom neat and tidy.

[Dr. Tim]

lennon's biographies make little or nil reference to Brian. Nor does the Barry Miles bio on Paul. keiths new book mentions Brian twice pays a little respect to him, but where is the love??

Not true.  Miles begins a chapter specifically stating that the only non-Beatles rock musician who Paul considered his equal or better was Brian.  Paul particularly admired Brian's melodic "rootless" bass lines, which didn't just play the root notes of the chords like those of most other bassists.

[18thofMay]

lennon's biographies make little or nil reference to Brian. Nor does the Barry Miles bio on Paul. keiths new book mentions Brian twice pays a little respect to him, but where is the love??

Not true.  Miles begins a chapter specifically stating that the only non-Beatles rock musician who Paul considered his equal or better was Brian.  Paul particularly admired Brian's melodic "rootless" bass lines, which didn't just play the root notes of the chords like those of most other bassists.

So it does...Thanks

[18thofMay]

This meeting in LA which includes "playing of a tape" is on Wiki and referenced too.
http://www.icons.org.uk/theicons/collection/sgt-pepper/features/reactions-to-sergeant-pepper

[The Heartical Don]

Are Vosse's texts mentioned here available online?

[Bicyclerider]

To correct an obvious error from a poster above - it was Rubber Soul, not Revolver, that inspired Brian to create Pet Sounds.


Strawberry Fields upset Brian and made him doubt his musical direction - but this event was not an isolated incident.  He did the same upon hearing the Stones' "My Obsession" recorded at RCA.  Brian was insecure and it didn't take much to rattle him.

If I remember correctly, Al Jardine did not get to hear what Paul played Brian from Pepper in the control room because he was in the studio doing vocals for Vegetables.  so that would mean it was not played on the piano in the studio but more likely was an acetate or tape copy he had with him.  We've heard it was She's Leaving Home and we've heard it was Day in the Life - I suspect it was the latter, because it was the more "mind blowing" cut with the orchestral crescendo, final piano chord, "love to turn you on" etc. - She's Leaving Home is a great song but fairly conventional, the fact that Paul is accompanied only by an orchestra and no Beatles instruments makes it different (but no different than Eleanor Rigby).  If you were going to the US and wanted to bring a song to blow people's minds, which one would you take?
Maybe he ALSO at a later time played She's Leaving Home on the piano for Brian and Marilyn?

[Andrew G. Doe]

But... Paul's reason for being in the US wasn't to blow people's minds or promote the forthcoming album - he was there because Jane was on tour with a theatre company.