Dennis Wilson..."Me and Charlie, we founded the family".

[Pretty Funky]

From a new book on the California music industry. Any truth to this Jon?


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/14/DD5D1FP9H6.DTL

[DSamore]

gee, I wonder WHO punched him in the Larnyx?! Who could it be?

[Jon Stebbins]

Selvin has written some really good things in his career...his Rick Nelson book is definitive, as are some of his writings on the '60's SF scene...but IMO this isn't good journalism. To begin any piece about Dennis by saying he was " the ignored Beach Boy and snubbed by fans" is laughable. Anyone with decent knowledge about the Beach Boys history should know that if nothing else Dennis commanded attention, and especially from the fans, with whom (from '63 to '78) he was clearly the Beach Boy who received the most attention and screams, and fan mail, and women throwing themselves at him. So, this guy is a little off base. Also saying his songs were few and far between...I guess if that's the case then Carl, Al and Bruce's songs were practically invisible. There's an attempt to paint a sensational, and dark, picture of dysfunctional Dennis here...which is fine if you get the nuance right. IMO Selvin has no clue what Dennis was about and what his standing and impact were. Just watch Billy Hinsche's '74 tour documentary and then tell me who had the "power" in the BB's political structure...Al?...Mike? You gotta be kidding. Once Brian was in shut down mode...the power was squarely held by Carl (and Dennis was his closest ally) until 15BO era when Brian threw his leverage to Mike by default. After that it was a free for all with Dennis going off the rails. Maybe the bottom line of this piece is okay...but the context is really skewed...which calls the credibility of the whole thing into question. Did he really say Dennis lacked the political clout of Al Jardine? Whoa...that's a good one.

[bgas]

Did he really say Dennis lacked the political clout of Al Jardine? Whoa...that's a good one.

See, you have to understand, Al has "friends in low places"...   

[Don_Zabu]

Did he really say Dennis lacked the political clout of Al Jardine? Whoa...that's a good one.

See, you have to understand, Al has "friends in low places"...   

He has more mob ties than Sinatra? Wouldn't surprise me.

[Jay]

"Being a Beach Boy didn't make Dennis Wilson happy". That is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read. That group was everything to him. He LOVED going out there and seeing the crowd go nuts. Without The Beach Boys, I believe that Dennis probably would have died years earlier than he did.

[Mike's Beard]

It is partly true. As much as Dennis loved being a Beach boy, if he had to resort to taking all those drugs he obviously felt that something was missing in his life and within himself - a hole that 'being a Beach Boy' couldn't fill.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The notion of Dennis still being a virgin at 15 is something I'm trying to wrap my head around. 

[bgas]

The notion of Dennis still being a virgin at 15 is something I'm trying to wrap my head around. 

He was misquoted; I think he meant 5.

[The Heartical Don]

The notion of Dennis still being a virgin at 15 is something I'm trying to wrap my head around. 

He was misquoted; I think he meant 5.

 

[Mike's Beard]

Oh to know just half of what Dennis really knew what was going on in the Family. The stuff he could of told would probably have made your nose bleed.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Oh to know just half of what Dennis really knew what was going on in the Family. The stuff he could of told would probably have made your nose bleed.

Hmmm... I tend to doubt that. Dennis' main interest in The Family was distinctly visceral, with music coming second. I doubt he knew about the more murderous aspects. I know he said he knew why Charlie did what he did, but that was a few good years after the event.

[The Heartical Don]

Oh to know just half of what Dennis really knew what was going on in the Family. The stuff he could of told would probably have made your nose bleed.

Definately. He could of told a lot. And you'd lose your septum, literally.

[Mike's Beard]

There was some kinky stuff going on at Spahn Range that would have made Ron Jeremy blush. Frankly Dennis was lucky his dick didn't turn green and drop off.

[The Heartical Don]

There was some kinky stuff going on at Spahn Range that would have made Ron Jeremy blush. Frankly Dennis was lucky his dick didn't turn green and drop off.

You mean, it would have seperated from his body? 

[Jon Stebbins]

The notion of Dennis still being a virgin at 15 is something I'm trying to wrap my head around. 

He was misquoted; I think he meant 5.

 

I think Selvin is gullible and bought into some of Dennis' obvious BS. The 15 thing for sure. When we were doing the Dennis doc. last year we had a couple of guys who grew up with Dennis walking the old neighborhood with us, and unprompted, every once in a while, one of them would stop and point, "that used to be Jenny's house, she was real cute...Dennis took her virginity." Then we'd walk around the corner..."That was Betsy's house...she had a great body...Dennis crawled in the window one night and had sex with her...her dad chased him down the street with a hammer." And it continued..."That was Dee Dee's house...she had long black hair and was really pretty, she was a senior and a virgin...Dennis got her to sleep with him when he was a freshman." There must have been seven or eight of these stories in a three block square area. Can you imagine that same guy being on the road and not getting any? Please.

[Mike's Beard]

Obviously Jon he would have got the pick from Mike's leftovers.........

[bgas]

The notion of Dennis still being a virgin at 15 is something I'm trying to wrap my head around. 

He was misquoted; I think he meant 5.

 

I think Selvin is gullible and bought into some of Dennis' obvious BS. The 15 thing for sure. When we were doing the Dennis doc. last year we had a couple of guys who grew up with Dennis walking the old neighborhood with us, and unprompted, every once in a while, one of them would stop and point, "that used to be Jenny's house, she was real cute...Dennis took her virginity." Then we'd walk around the corner..."That was Betsy's house...she had a great body...Dennis crawled in the window one night and had sex with her...her dad chased him down the street with a hammer." And it continued..."That was Dee Dee's house...she had long black hair and was really pretty, she was a senior and a virgin...Dennis got her to sleep with him when he was a freshman." There must have been seven or eight of these stories in a three block square area. Can you imagine that same guy being on the road and not getting any? Please.

Wot's the chance of getting all these quotes into a revised edition of your book? maybe find pics of Jenny, betsy , Dee Dee and the others and get their quotes on what happened? 

[Mike's Beard]

As much as we all idolise Dennis, I lost a bit of repsect for him when I read that he'd done Patricia Krenwinkle, second only to Mary Brumner in the Family 'minger' stakes.

[Jon Stebbins]

The thing about the Manson era is that it all became so magnified and sensational AFTER what occurred in summer 1969. For years the press absolutely fed on it which compounded the salacious nature of the core story. But in truth the family was just one odd microcosm in a massive flurry of counter culture behavior. Dennis knew a lot about them of course, but they weren't the giant cultural demons that we have been conditioned to think of them as in the aftermath. they were just one a thousand crazy things happening in L.A. And everybody knew Charlie, not just Dennis. Gregg Jakobson was right in the middle of it all, i talk to him frequently about it, and he's very matter of fact about Charlie and the family...they were troubled, dangerous, but not exactly pioneers in the type of behavior they were exhibiting. They were a part of a larger scene, they weren't the scene...they were on the fringe. They were grifters, Charlie had a prison edge, he took advantage of the chaos of 1968. But to say "Dennis knew so much"...well yeah, he lived with them, but he also bailed on them when the vibes became bad...just like any of us do when some creepy element enters our life. Sometimes it takes awhile for the creepiness to become evident, especially when there's a good amount of fun mixed in. The only thing that really separates the family from hundreds of other freaks who permeated L.A. is one stupid cowardly act. Its like a tantrum...one step beyond. And for some reason our culture glorifies it and endlessly obsesses on it. It all made Dennis very sad and probably was one reason he preferred to stay numb. But when he mentioned to the odd person that he knew "secrets"...well of course, but its not that Charlie was an alien, or a CIA operative. Its more about drug deals, and other notable people who are scrubbed from the story. Typical L.A.ish show biz secrets. It will all come out slowly...but none of it really matters. Charlie was bad news, Dennis figured that out. Other bad stuff happened after that.

[Mike's Beard]

I think the reason it is still obsessed over 40 years later is there are just too many loose ends to the case. That's what facinates me. I've read too many things to believe that the Tate and Biancia house's were chosen at random.

[The Heartical Don]

I think the reason it is still obsessed over 40 years later is there are just too many loose ends to the case. That's what facinates me. I've read too many things to believe that the Tate and Biancia house's were chosen at random.

But isn't this just what Jon is driving at? Such mass media crazes that go on for 40 years get a dynamic all of their own. For each claim there is a counterclaim. Everyone wants a share of fame or notoriety.

Compare it to 9/11. Many are convinced that it was an inside job. There are about a million engineers that say it was what we all believe it was, and another million that say that it could never have been done with 2 planes alone.

A dynamic of its own creates all those loose ends. Only common sense and skepticism can counteract that.

And: if George Dubya and his troupe would be behind 9/11, then they certainly would have been able to install some fake WMD's in Iraq, to validate the invasion there, wouldn't you think?

[Menace Wilson]

I think the reason it is still obsessed over 40 years later is there are just too many loose ends to the case. That's what facinates me. I've read too many things to believe that the Tate and Biancia house's were chosen at random.

Add to that the gruesome nature of the murders, the scrawled messages, the lifestyles of the perps...it all makes for a fascinating story.

I've always wondered to what extent fear of Charlie and/or "the family" played a role in Dennis' life, not just in the months after the murders, but in the following years.  If it'd been me, knowing there were still Manson family types at large, I think I'd have been double-checking door locks and windows for a very long time afterwards. 

[Jon Stebbins]

I think the reason it is still obsessed over 40 years later is there are just too many loose ends to the case. That's what facinates me. I've read too many things to believe that the Tate and Biancia house's were chosen at random.

There's definitely people who know way more about this subject than I do who would agree with you that none of it was random. It was payback for some type of burn. There's a thousand stories in the naked city...and this is just one of them.

[Mike's Beard]

I think the reason it is still obsessed over 40 years later is there are just too many loose ends to the case. That's what fascinates me. I've read too many things to believe that the Tate and Biancia house's were chosen at random.

But isn't this just what Jon is driving at? Such mass media crazes that go on for 40 years get a dynamic all of their own. For each claim there is a counterclaim. Everyone wants a share of fame or notoriety.

Compare it to 9/11. Many are convinced that it was an inside job. There are about a million engineers that say it was what we all believe it was, and another million that say that it could never have been done with 2 planes alone.

A dynamic of its own creates all those loose ends. Only common sense and skepticism can counteract that.

And: if George Dubya and his troupe would be behind 9/11, then they certainly would have been able to install some fake WMD's in Iraq, to validate the invasion there, wouldn't you think?

I don't think for a second 9/11 was an inside job. However the US Government knew exactly how to turn such a horrific tragedy to their advantage.
            Back to Manson - The worst aspect of the ongoing media saga is that it must be impossible for the families of the victims to come to any form of closure. The past is always being dredged up again and again. As much as I dislike Debra Tate, I can't begin to imagine what she has gone through. I'm not guilt free, I've bought the books and the documentaries and the movies on all this.
            As Susan Atkins once wrote "For most, the Manson murders is a fascinating case that they can look into for an hour or so and then go back to their lives. For the people involved, both victims and killers it's something that's there with them everyday of their lives."