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Author Topic: River Song demo  (Read 10324 times)
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« on: September 09, 2010, 06:01:38 AM »

I stumbled across this on the internets last night, and just can't get over it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJeHcHzGyZQ

I mean, I love the POB version of River Song, but this version just flat out rocks!  It's incredible.

A couple of questions for those more knowledgeable than me:

1.  According to wikipedia, River Song was first attempted by the Beach Boys in 1970.  Is that what this demo is?  (AGD's book suggests a later date for the BB's attempt at the song, perhaps 1973).  If so, do we know who the players were (Ricky on drums?, guitar ?, Denny on piano?, etc.)?  Was this one of the tracks Denny wanted to get on Surf's Up but was overruled on?  Can you imagine this track leading off Surf's Up (followed by Long Promised Road)?  It would have fit the "ecological" theme of the album so much more powerfully than Don't Go Near the Water.  I mean, I like DGNTW, but River Song is epic.

2.  Given the similarity between the piano intro of River Song and Tiny Dancer, plus the fact that the Beach Boys and Elton John toured together in the early 70s, I have always suspected that EJ ripped off Denny.  If this demo (or one like it) was in fact completed in 1970, that would strongly support my theory.  Anyone know anything about this?


Although it worked out fine that River Song ended up as the opener for POB, I truly cannot understand how it was kept in the can for so many years sounding this good.
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2010, 06:19:10 AM »

Denny's 'Sound of Free' contains at 0:45 elements of 'River Song'.
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2010, 06:21:20 AM »

WOW! Great post!

I hate to say it, but I nearly prefer this version to the POB version! Those harmonies around the 1:00 mark are fantastic
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2010, 07:30:15 AM »

i'll take POB version, miss that choir
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2010, 08:20:32 AM »

1.  According to wikipedia, River Song was first attempted by the Beach Boys in 1970.  Is that what this demo is?  (AGD's book suggests a later date for the BB's attempt at the song, perhaps 1973).  If so, do we know who the players were (Ricky on drums?, guitar ?, Denny on piano?, etc.)?  Was this one of the tracks Denny wanted to get on Surf's Up but was overruled on?  Can you imagine this track leading off Surf's Up (followed by Long Promised Road)?  It would have fit the "ecological" theme of the album so much more powerfully than Don't Go Near the Water.  I mean, I like DGNTW, but River Song is epic.

Wikipedia is wrong-ish: this dates from 1973, and it was originally described to me decades ago as a tour rehearsal (they played the song on some fall '73 dates), which sounds about right to me. A demo it ain't.  The intro was indeed laid down earlier, in mid-1971 (after the Surf's Up sessions) as part of "Ecology". The two songs Dennis pulled from Surf's Up are well documented as "4th of July" and "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again".

2.  Given the similarity between the piano intro of River Song and Tiny Dancer, plus the fact that the Beach Boys and Elton John toured together in the early 70s...

They did ?  EJ guested on a few isolated BB shows in the 70s, and they shared a bill in London, summer 1975, but I've not heard of them doing an entire tour together.

...I have always suspected that EJ ripped off Denny.  If this demo (or one like it) was in fact completed in 1970, that would strongly support my theory.  Anyone know anything about this?

Well, aside from the fact that they weren't close enough to exchange musical ideas in the first place, "River Song" was first recorded in 1973 (intro summer 1971) while "Tiny Dancer" was recorded 9th August 1971... so maybe Denny ripped off Elton ?  Grin
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 08:21:31 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2010, 08:32:53 AM »

The earliest form of River Song that I've heard is the Beach Boys doing it live during a couple of concerts in 1973.  I've always thought that the studio demo was from 1973. This is the first I've heard about an attempt on the song in 1970.

That same demo was played in the background of some interview or mention of the Beach Boys' new album or something - I think it was from 1976 if I remember right.
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2010, 08:56:19 AM »

The earliest form of River Song that I've heard is the Beach Boys doing it live during a couple of concerts in 1973.  I've always thought that the studio demo was from 1973. This is the first I've heard about an attempt on the song in 1970.

That same demo was played in the background of some interview or mention of the Beach Boys' new album or something - I think it was from 1976 if I remember right.

A 1973 KABC-TV clip, if I remember correctly. Never seen the clip, only ever heard the audio.
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 09:07:55 AM »

Are there any recordings of shows where they played River Song? Erm... not that I'm interested in that sort of thing, you understand  LOL
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 09:13:06 AM »

A 1973 KABC-TV clip, if I remember correctly. Never seen the clip, only ever heard the audio.

Yeah, that's the one. A deep voiced guy is talking over the demo track in the background. Always wondered what song that was until it was finally released in '77.
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 09:15:00 AM »

How much of this was used for the later version - if any?
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 09:21:41 AM »

Are there any recordings of shows where they played River Song? Erm... not that I'm interested in that sort of thing, you understand  LOL

I think there are at least 2 live recordings floating around, probably a few more. The Hartford, Aug 24th '73 recording is a great one.
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 09:24:25 AM »

This has been floating around for years and IMO this isn't a demo, or a rehearsal or anything else...its just an early mix, or rough mix of the same basic track that's on POB. There's a lot of information on this one that was buried or peeled from the final POB version. But there's also a lot of elements on this version that remain on the final POB mix. AND Dennis added a lot of stuff to the track after this '73-ish mix...like the choir, and a different lead vocal, and tons of other voices. But Listen closely, its the same basic track .
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2010, 09:30:27 AM »

Are there any recordings of shows where they played River Song? Erm... not that I'm interested in that sort of thing, you understand  LOL

These two shows were recorded and they may have played 'River Song' during additional concerts in mid- 1973. Blondie Chaplin sings lead:

Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, New York
August 19, 1973

Dillon Stadium, Hartford, CT
August 24, 1973



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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2010, 09:41:51 AM »

I've never been able to decide which version I prefer. All I know is Dennis and Carl should have never had a 6 year lay off from composing new material for the group and they should never have let Blondie and Ricky slip away. This is just stunning.
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2010, 10:07:41 AM »

Thank good ol' Steve Love for letting Blondie go. Mighta had input from his brother. I always liked his voice on these here Beach Boys records. Good rendition of 'River Song' and I really liked his lead on 'Carry Me Home' and 'Hard Times' too.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2010, 10:56:37 AM »

Me too.
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2010, 12:00:46 PM »

A 1973 KABC-TV clip, if I remember correctly. Never seen the clip, only ever heard the audio.

First off, thanks for reminding me of that clip, Andrew.  I have it stashed away, on some obsolete video format, and I haven't seen it in years. Need to get that one transferred.
As to this demo, I'll never know how this leaked out, but it never should have; Dennis would have a fit! It was actually my first attempt at mixing, and was done just for my friends in New York to hear.  (This was a band that Dennis & Carl bought out here, around the time of The Flame, to record an album).  I was heading to the city with The Boys, and asked Earle Mankey to run me a cassette of the song, so I could prove to these guys that Dennis was 'back in the game', so to speak...   (Edit to original post:)  Earle said he wouldn't take responsibility for doing the mix, however, he'd let me take a stab at it, and this was the result.  You can hear that I got so carried away with the percussion at the end, that the track just kind of ran out. 
First time I heard it after that was on an early vinyl boot, and I almost flipped!  Not as badly as Dennis flipped, though, when he first heard my cassette mix.  He told me to stick to shooting & editing film & video, and leave the recording & mixing to him...
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2010, 12:37:57 PM »

First time I heard it after that was on an early vinyl boot, and I almost flipped!

That woulda been the "California Feeling" vinyl boot that came out in the early 80's. Had a big picture of Dennis on the Harmony on the back cover. Before that it was circulating amongst collectors on cassettes.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2010, 12:52:01 PM »

A 1973 KABC-TV clip, if I remember correctly. Never seen the clip, only ever heard the audio.

First off, thanks for reminding me of that clip, Andrew.  I have it stashed away, on some obsolete video format, and I haven't seen it in years. Need to get that one transferred.
As to this demo, I'll never know how this leaked out, but it never should have; Dennis would have a fit! It was actually my first attempt at mixing, and was done just for my friends in New York to hear.  (This was a band that Dennis & Carl bought out here, around the time of The Flame, to record an album).  I was heading to the city with The Boys, and asked Earle Mankey to run me a cassette of the song, so I could prove to these guys that Dennis was 'back in the game', so to speak...   (Edit to original post:)  Earle said he wouldn't take responsibility for doing the mix, however, he'd let me take a stab at it, and this was the result.  You can hear that I got so carried away with the percussion at the end, that the track just kind of ran out. 
First time I heard it after that was on an early vinyl boot, and I almost flipped!  Not as badly as Dennis flipped, though, when he first heard my cassette mix.  He told me to stick to shooting & editing film & video, and leave the recording & mixing to him...
That's right, now I remember you telling me about that "mix"...and so this concurs that this is just an early rough mix of the same basic track as used on POB, albeit in an early less adorned form.
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2010, 12:55:51 PM »

First time I heard it after that was on an early vinyl boot, and I almost flipped!

That woulda been the "California Feeling" vinyl boot that came out in the early 80's. Had a big picture of Dennis on the Harmony on the back cover. Before that it was circulating amongst collectors on cassettes.

That's the one; ironically, I picked in up on a subsequent trip to New York, the place to get bootlegs!  Didn't get it until after Dennis was gone, and I got it because it had a few interesting things of his, if memory serves me.  However, I only needed to hear the first few seconds of "River Song", (and I was curious to hear this 'demo' on the record myself), to know it was my version.  Thinking about it now, Earle probably laid down my mix to a reel-to-reel to dub the cassette.  That tape probably stayed in the vault, and could have been the source of the leak.  I know I never let go of any copies; that was why I simply had to have a copy with me to play for the band in N.Y.
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2010, 01:09:28 PM »

Ed I think the manic percussion is awesome, although I always assumed it was Ricky playing it. Other than you, Dennis, Carl, Blondie and Ricky can you recall who else was involved? Mike, Al or Brian?
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2010, 01:26:10 PM »

lol.  this board has some good uses.
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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2010, 01:37:37 PM »




 It was actually my first attempt at mixing, and was done just for my friends in New York to hear.  (This was a band that Dennis & Carl bought out here, around the time of The Flame, to record an album).  

Well, Ed, who was this band( your friends)?
 did Dennis and Carl record them?
Who has the tapes? ( any BBs on them?)
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« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2010, 02:01:51 PM »

I've always thought the opening to River Song actually ripped off "Your Song," which was released in the U.S. in 1970. All three are somewhat similar.
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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2010, 03:52:01 PM »

A 1973 KABC-TV clip, if I remember correctly. Never seen the clip, only ever heard the audio.

First off, thanks for reminding me of that clip, Andrew.  I have it stashed away, on some obsolete video format, and I haven't seen it in years. Need to get that one transferred.
As to this demo, I'll never know how this leaked out, but it never should have; Dennis would have a fit! It was actually my first attempt at mixing, and was done just for my friends in New York to hear.  (This was a band that Dennis & Carl bought out here, around the time of The Flame, to record an album).  I was heading to the city with The Boys, and asked Earle Mankey to run me a cassette of the song, so I could prove to these guys that Dennis was 'back in the game', so to speak...   (Edit to original post:)  Earle said he wouldn't take responsibility for doing the mix, however, he'd let me take a stab at it, and this was the result.  You can hear that I got so carried away with the percussion at the end, that the track just kind of ran out. 
First time I heard it after that was on an early vinyl boot, and I almost flipped!  Not as badly as Dennis flipped, though, when he first heard my cassette mix.  He told me to stick to shooting & editing film & video, and leave the recording & mixing to him...

That's amazing!
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