History of Mike's reputation

[KokoMoses]

Why does defending Mike still cause such compu-violence? We ALL love Brian! I think the sociopath comments are intended to be humorous though provoking, but I doubt anyone here actually considers Brian a villian! I mean, "villian" is something of a serious word. Stating that Brian made some bad decisions that had consequences is, at worst, accusing him of being a mere human! All bets are off with Mike, of course. He's free to be accused of everything under the sun, but Brian? We all love him!

Does this happen on Beatles boards with John worshippers vs. Paul worshippers? (I'll bet it does) And the comparison IS intended!

[SG7]

I wasn't signaling anyone out. There always seems to be that backlash everytime someone supports brian they are hating mike, which is not always true.   

[KokoMoses]

you're right, but it certainly goes both ways. though historically speaking has usually gone just one way!

we really are into uncharted territories here. but we'll all find our feet! 

[Dancing Bear]

Hey, I changed my opinion with this thread. Now I count more brianistas in this message board than before. Whooray! 

[TdHabib]

< censored >

Jesus, went a bit over the line there.

And I must admit I am on very friendly terms with Rob McCabe and Clay and am distressed that they are gone. VERY distressed. I myself will not leave, but my heart and support is with them. I don't want to think of a BB message board without RobMac, Claymacc and Mikie, yet we're getting closer and closer and closer.

Hang onto your ego.

[Nicko]

Jeez, if 2 posters have left the board because of then it must be the biggest overreaction of the century. As other posters have mentioned, accusing Mike (or anybody else for that matter) of any heinous action is absolutely fine but apparently one mention of Brian and the toys come out of the pram.

[Surfer Joe]

Maybe that's not the issue, Nicko.

[Dancing Bear]

Oh my. TdHabib:

I and Rob live in DIFFERENT CONTINENTS. I'll probably never set foot in North America again. The chances of actually meeting him in a BB related concert and < censored >   are the same as Brian pulling a '67 finished master of Smile from his jukebox.

It's funny that in a message board and fandom where there's so much bile against certain members of the group - ok, Dr. UNH singlehandely has just made it a bit more more democratic in the last months - that you are taking exception with a silly comment like the one I did.

[TdHabib]

Oh my. TdHabib:
I and Rob live in DIFFERENT CONTINENTS. I'll probably never set foot in North America again. The chances of actually meeting him in a BB related concert and < censored >   are the same as Brian pulling a '67 finished master of Smile from his jukebox.
It's funny that in a message board and fandom where there's so much bile against certain members of the group - ok, Dr. UNH singlehandely has just made it a bit more more democratic in the last months - that you are taking exception with a silly comment like the one I did.

I did not take your comment literally and I know you would never < censored > . It's just that I think on this forum and, for that matter, all internet forums peoples comments should be respectful and there is a right way to say "I disagree" and a wrong way to say it. I don't think anyone would disagree that you have a right to state your opinion. However, I believe the way that you did stepped over a line of decency. You are not the only one to step over that line in my opinion.

[TdHabib]

Just an addendum that my last post had NOTHING to do with my opinions on Mike Love or Brian Wilson. NOTHING.

[Nicko]

I did not take your comment literally and I know you would never < censored > . It's just that I think on this forum and, for that matter, all internet forums peoples comments should be respectful and there is a right way to say "I disagree" and a wrong way to say it. I don't think anyone would disagree that you have a right to state your opinion. However, I believe the way that you did stepped over a line of decency. You are not the only one to step over that line in my opinion.

I disagree. I think it was fairly obvious that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

[Dancing Bear]

I thought the vibes in the few pages before my comment were bad enough that my comment would be seen in context. Well, you're offended but not leaving, so... we don't have to dissect this one endlessly.

[adamghost]

I think we should all go to the Wilson School of Conflict Resolution.

When Murry read in ROLLING STONE that Brian had said that he was deaf in one ear because of beatings inflicted by him, and forced him to defecate on a platem as a child, he was furious.  He called Brian up and demanded an explanation.

Brian, laughing, supposedly said, "I'll tell you what, dad.  Let's tell them that I sh*t in your ear, and you hit me on the head with a plate."



[with apologies to David Leaf]

[Cam Mott]

RobMac: "It's sad that said person is a moderator."

Some of you long timers will see the irony in this. Love you Rob.

Anyways, let's take a deep breath. Our Mod has expressed like two sentences and there are two pages of condemnation. Maybe our moderator could give us a little more detail about his thinking on this before we all get too carried away. Just a suggestion.

[Wilsonista]

I do intend on keeping my promise but I could not let what I'm about to post slide.  For the record it is not differences of opinion that upset me.  It is the way that some people choose to make their disagreement known as well as the fact that there have been some in this thread who are defending how those people are behaving.  I want to point out that for the few of you who have defended the Mike Love perspective without resorting to sarcasm, childishness, and viciousness, this is not directed toward you.  I should also point out that living on different continents should not excuse someone for a) making physical threats of violence  and b) resorting to personal insults, especially when those insults are directed towards any relatives and loved ones who aren't even participating in the conversation.  

I also want to point out to Cam Mott that while yes, he and I have clashed over the years, I don't believe I've ever, ever crossed the line with my opinion that some in this thread have.  

< censored: quotes from PM's >

[Steve Mayo]

wow, i haven't read posts to this thread in a couple of days and was it a real eye opener when i read them today. man, the thread sure went downhill...and that's a shame. if it was up to me i think i would close and lock the thread. the board should be above this kind of threats and insults, at least in my opinion..... 

[smile-holland]

OK, this topic is brought back to life again. To my best knowledge I’ve tried to clean up those posts that I found to be inappropriate. Some - more explicit - opinions I did leave in, as IMO, I didn’t found them to be directly insulting towards anyone here.

An edit in a certain post doesn’t always mean the poster was breaking rules, as it could also be a correction in a quote or it was referring to an earlier post that was crossing borders.

If you tend to disagree with an edit, or think another edit is necessary, please be so kind to PM me about it, and I’ll correct it when necessary. PLEASE DO NOT reply about corrections on this topic itself. Before we know it, we get another side-discussion, and frankly I’ve seen too much of that on this topic.

Of course if you want to edit something in one of your own replies, you can do so by using the “modify”-button.



And - before we continue - some advise:

Please try to keep it on-topic and – above all – civil.

(1) Don’t start up the whole side-discussion again.
    -   If you don’t agree on an opinion, that’s OK, but don’t use it as an excuse to go off-topic and get personal in a negative way towards others.
    -   Please be so sensible to not stir up or quote posts of the last few days that nothing to do with the topic.
    -   Not insulting directly, but deliberately "pouring oil on the flames", is not a wise thing to do.
    -   A discussion on “what is and isn’t allowed to say?” fits much better on the Sandbox-forum. You’ll find a few topics on this very issue there, for example: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8355.0.html.

(2) As for the civil-part: Treat your fellow board members like you want to be treated.
    -   And if you think a certain reply is or looks to be insulting to you personally, be so smart to count to 10 first and then reply. My signature says it all: “Rule of thumb, THINK before you post. And think how it may affect someone else's feelings.”
    -   And – just to make sure – you can always ask the other person first what he/she meant with that remark.
    -   And if you want to notify it as inappropriate, do so by clicking “Report to moderator” which is shown below-right on every post.

(3) Part of the edits concerned quotes from PM’s. Try to avoid that.
    -   Keep a PM personal, don’t even bring it out in public at all.
    -   Seeing some of the content of the PM’s that were shown, I’d say some of us from now on need to re-think thoroughly what they write. Even if you don’t have any intention to say something in a rude way, remember that the receiver might judge otherwise.
    -   If you feel insulted or threatened in a PM, don’t try to hit back immediately, but inform a moderator about it. Moderators can’t check your PM’s, but if you’re not feeling comfortable with the situation, notify us, and we can take measurements.

(4) In conclusion.
    -   These words of course apply to ALL of us, moderators included.
    -   Please let these words I’ve just written, be the last one’s that are off-topic. Why? > see (1)  


And now that this lecture’s over, feel free to continue the “Mike’s reputation” discussion.

And remember: keep “looking back with love”  

[The Heartical Don]

Mike blows. Better than Kenny G.

[MBE]

This "known" thing is interesting. I think Mike might be nearly as known as Brian if we are talking everyone... including the average low information man on the street. If we are just talking music fans with at least some knowledge then Brian is the most well known, with Mike second. Dennis would be third partly because his notoriety for non-musical things (Manson, drowning) has penetrated many avenues of popular culture. And as a musical artist Dennis has moved beyond cult status. His 2008 release outsold Brian's 2008 release worldwide...and charted higher in many places. Cult artists do not sell 125,000 units in this day and age...no way. Reissue of the year in Rolling Stone, Mojo, Uncut does not equal a "cult" artist. A primetime BBC television documentary next month as well. So, DW is not Lady Gaga...but he's not a cult artist either. With that said, Brian is the most known, Mike is a close second, Dennis a gaining third. Now, the question is, what percentage of all the people who "know" each of those three individuals considers them something positive? What percentage of everyone who knows those three individuals are fans of one or more of them?

I am a fan of the pre 1976 Mike Love.  Post 1976 not so much. 

I am a fan of Brian Wilson.  I just don't think he should have been shoved back into the limelight in 1976.  He was not ready and as a result the band suffered for it.  It is sad to say but the shows were better without Brian.  I do think that Brian's post 1975 Beach Boys (as opposed to his solo work) had a negative impact on the Band and his legacy.

I am a fan of Dennis, however, his personal issues in the late 70's had a negative impact on the Beach Boys.  Having  to keep a second percussionist on the payroll because your drummer might not show up is never a good thing.

Funny this sums things up for me quite well, although half of Brian's solo work isn't any better then his later Beach Boys stuff.

[mtaber]

"Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson all over again...

[The Heartical Don]

"Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson all over again...

  yup...

[Cam Mott]

One of Rob's and my replys might give the impression I meant Rob when I told about someone insulting my wife. I did not. Rob and I have always had passionate but respectful debates without insulting each other or our families, as far as I remember, and will continue to somewhere I'm sure.

Maybe this was un-neccesaary but there it is anyway. I hope Rob comes back here.

[bgas]

One of Rob's and my replys might give the impression I meant Rob when I told about someone insulting my wife. I did not. Rob and I have always had passionate but respectful debates without insulting each other or our families, as far as I remember, and will continue to somewhere I'm sure.

Maybe this was un-neccesaary but there it is anyway. I hope Rob comes back here.

Yes, I agree. Rob makes this a better place.

[Reggie Dunbar]

It's been fun following this for the past twenty pages or so. Lots of latter-day diplomacy
intertwined with positive and negative viewpoints, impressive for such a volatile topic.

I believe 99% of the SmileySmilers value Mike for the majority of his contributions to the
legacy of the band, and a similar figure wouldn't want him hitting on their daughters.

So, I guess he is the living embodiment of the Janus, from what I have gleaned thus far.

[carlydenise]

2 questions.....

1.  What was written in the area labled <censored>, or is this something that I really don't want to know about?
2.  What was the original debate about?   I forgot.   

Wow, such reaction, but historically isn't this subject one of the most debated and most volitile on any BB/BW message board?  Guys, guys, chill.....