History of Mike's reputation

[BillA]

This "known" thing is interesting. I think Mike might be nearly as known as Brian if we are talking everyone... including the average low information man on the street. If we are just talking music fans with at least some knowledge then Brian is the most well known, with Mike second. Dennis would be third partly because his notoriety for non-musical things (Manson, drowning) has penetrated many avenues of popular culture. And as a musical artist Dennis has moved beyond cult status. His 2008 release outsold Brian's 2008 release worldwide...and charted higher in many places. Cult artists do not sell 125,000 units in this day and age...no way. Reissue of the year in Rolling Stone, Mojo, Uncut does not equal a "cult" artist. A primetime BBC television documentary next month as well. So, DW is not Lady Gaga...but he's not a cult artist either. With that said, Brian is the most known, Mike is a close second, Dennis a gaining third. Now, the question is, what percentage of all the people who "know" each of those three individuals considers them something positive? What percentage of everyone who knows those three individuals are fans of one or more of them?

I am a fan of the pre 1976 Mike Love.  Post 1976 not so much. 

I am a fan of Brian Wilson.  I just don't think he should have been shoved back into the limelight in 1976.  He was not ready and as a result the band suffered for it.  It is sad to say but the shows were better without Brian.  I do think that Brian's post 1975 Beach Boys (as opposed to his solo work) had a negative impact on the Band and his legacy.

I am a fan of Dennis, however, his personal issues in the late 70's had a negative impact on the Beach Boys.  Having  to keep a second percussionist on the payroll because your drummer might not show up is never a good thing.

[Cam Mott]

I think the point is that the songs that feature Mike's voice are sung by Mike because Brian, their producer, chose to have Mike sing them. Furthermore, the voice Mike uses [that people are dissing] on those songs  is voiced that way because Brian, their producer, chose for Mike to use that voice out of the various voices Mike was/is capable of singing in [with which Brian was very aware of]. If you have a beef with who sings and how they sing on those Brian produced songs I think you need to take it up with Brian.

Does that make sense?

[Jason]

Funny how people who say the Brianista POV is "simplistic" offer up simplistic bullmerda like "Brian Wilson is the cause of Brian Wilson's problems". 

I don't know how that's "simplistic bullshit". It's pretty obvious. Unless you think Michael drove Brian to take drugs. Of course, a sociopath who has known problems will do his or her damnedest to take the blame off of themselves for their own problems.

[Nicko]

I think the point is that the songs that feature Mike's voice are sung by Mike because Brian, their producer, chose to have Mike sing them. Furthermore, the voice Mike uses [that people are dissing] on those songs  is voiced that way because Brian, their producer, chose for Mike to use that voice out of the various voices Mike was/is capable of singing in [with which Brian was very aware of]. If you have a beef with who sings and how they sing on those Brian produced songs I think you need to take it up with Brian.

Does that make sense?

Completely. And listening to those early songs, I can't remember ever really thinking that Brian made the wrong decision. I don't think Dennis's and Al's voices would have worked as well and the demo of Brian singing Little Deuce Coupe just sounds wrong to me without Mike.

[the captain]

SONOFAFUCKINGBITCH. Mike Love donated (albeit a paltry-for-him $5k) to the PMRC? 8:30 ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTDJfrfZdWg&feature=fvw

[NHC]

"it almost feels like I’m in some sort of zealous, extreme right, conservative Christian, flat earth, creationist, revival meeting that counters ever value and iota of knowledge I posses.  (My apologies to 99% of the global Christian faith who I do not count in that assessment)."

Leave out the zealous, extremist,  flat earth (I was a geography major at Berkeley after all) parts and you're talking about me, thank you.  But that's OK. We're used to these kinds of ridiculous comments even when they have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand and serve only as another opportunity to attack people's beliefs.  Sorry, usually let this garbage go by for what it is, but really not in the mood for it tonight.

[Surfer Joe]

If you leave out "zealous", "extremist",  and "flat earth", there's nothing left but "conservative Christian" and "creationist", and he graciously apologizes to the "99% of the global Christian faith" which he is not criticizing, so I'm not sure I see the offense.

[Nicko]

I should say as well that the argument that Mike has been overpraised because he only has 5% of Brian's talent is bizarre imo. Let's face it, almost no people working in the music business have a percentage of the talent that Brian had in the 60s. So by that logic, none of them should ever be praised because they don't compare to Brian. Furthermore, I guess a pleasant ballad should never be praised if it is nowhere near as good as God Only Knows...Again I think this comes down to the fact that people believe that if you give Mike any credit that you are taking away from Brian and that if you criticise Mike that it turns Brian into a martyr. Neither of these is true.

Mike should be criticised for the mistakes that he's made and praised for his plus points. But to claim that he's been praised too much because he's not Brian is oafish.

[Wilsonista]

Funny how people who say the Brianista POV is "simplistic" offer up simplistic bullmerda like "Brian Wilson is the cause of Brian Wilson's problems".  

I don't know how that's "simplistic bullmerda". It's pretty obvious. Unless you think Michael drove Brian to take drugs. Of course, a sociopath who has known problems will do his or her damnedest to take the blame off of themselves for their own problems.

< censored > What do you have against showing some compassion for someone who is ill? Why do you have to be so friggin' heartless and cynical when it comes to the guy?

< censored > . Probably not.

[Wirestone]

Okay, this is it.

Rob, you're not alone. Dr. UNH, Jason, < censored >   and has definitely not treated me (and I think some other board members as well) with decency in private exchanges. I have not always kept my temper here, but I have not screwed people over.

His serving as a moderator is unacceptable. I'm out until he's no longer in that role.

[Surfer Joe]

Have some compassion, people- he's a known sociopath! He'll do anything to shift blame off himself and onto Brian Wilson!


 

[Wilsonista]

Have some compassion, people- he's a known sociopath! He'll do anything to shift blame off himself and onto Brian Wilson!


 

"Hey Yo!!!!  You are correct sir!"

[SG7]

From knowing someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family (like my dad's) you come out of it in different ways. My father was somewhat affected, but he never lets it show. Two of my dad's brothers moved far away, never to really speak to each other. One of them got actually banished from my family. My aunt who is the only one I still have a relationship with is my aunt and she basically lives in the past and is so bitter. To say something like "a sociopath who has known problems will do his or her damnedest to take the blame off of themselves for their own problems," flies completely in the face of the truth. Let me ask you this. Did Brian ask to be born in an abusive household? Did Brian ask for mental illness? No he didn't. As much as I am all for rewriting history to include those whose voices never got heard, I am not for at all those who wish to smack Brian here like this. What makes it right NOW to make him a villain when he did barely anything to make him one? I am sure some of you will mention things like giving drugs to Carnie  etc. but in the end, the man was human and made mistakes like all of us.

[Wilsonista]

Well said, Katie.

[Dancing Bear]

Hey, I like being part of a Beach Boys Message Board where Brian Wilson may be called a sociopath and life goes on. Big friggin' deal. < censored > he hates Mike Love's guts and it's his right to write what he believes in.

Cue "Spirit of America"  

Let Dr. UNH say whatever he wants. Let's not be too bitchy about it. God bless him.

[Nicko]

As much as I am all for rewriting history to include those whose voices never got heard, I am not for at all those who wish to smack Brian here like this. What makes it right NOW to make him a villain when he did barely anything to make him one?

To be fair, I have seen very few people in this thread try to make Brian out to be a villain. It's sad that one person seemingly wanted to do that and made such a sweeping statement which contributed nothing of intelligence before scuttling off again.

[Wilsonista]

Hey, I like being part of a Beach Boys Message Board where Brian Wilson may be called a sociopath and life goes on. Big friggin' deal. < censored > he hates Mike Love's guts and it's his right to write what he believes in.

\

Thanks, < censored >  

[Wilsonista]

As much as I am all for rewriting history to include those whose voices never got heard, I am not for at all those who wish to smack Brian here like this. What makes it right NOW to make him a villain when he did barely anything to make him one?

To be fair, I have seen very few people in this thread try to make Brian out to be a villain. It's sad that one person seemingly wanted to do that and made such a sweeping statement which contributed nothing of intelligence before scuttling off again.

It's sad that said person is a moderator.

[Surfer Joe]

< censored >

Looks like we have a more violent psychopathology this time. Show us on the doll, DB, where Rob touched you.

[KokoMoses]

Said Global Moderator has just the same right to his opinion as anyone else.

Yes, Brian has mental issues. But it seems he's conveniently either: too crazy to be held accountable for his actions, when it suits some people, or completely on top of his game mentally (or at least crazy but not stupid), when it suits some people.

Brian doesn't own the copyright on mental illness. There was a bit of it going around in The Beach Boys camp, from all accounts.

This ponderous argument isn't even about Brian or his mental condition. It's about those who've chosen to paint Mike Love as the central boogeyman in his life.

[Dancing Bear]

< censored >

Looks like we have a more violent psychopathology this time. Show us on the doll, DB, where Rob touched you.

You Brian worshipping guys are too sensitive. Love and merci for you all.  

[Dancing Bear]

Hey, I like being part of a Beach Boys Message Board where Brian Wilson may be called a sociopath and life goes on. Big friggin' deal. < censored >   he hates Mike Love's guts and it's his right to write what he believes in.

\

Thanks, < censored >  

You're welcome.  

[SG7]

Wow some of you totally missed my point. Did I state anywhere that he wasn't allowed to have an opinion? No I don't think I did. However I can question the reasoning. Painting everyone who disagrees like this because they have something against mike I don't agree with either. I have tried my best to hear everyones story and if this thread was titled something else would people get this personal about this? There has been mention in the past of Brian being a villain of sorts. Hence why I bought it up.








Last Login:  12/30/2009

[Wilsonista]

I'm with Clay.  I'm gone too.  I have better things to do than to engage in pissing matches.

[Surfer Joe]

I did get your point, SurferGirl.  I was just kidding around.

Hate to see the board undergoing yet another destructive meltdown, but I think it was fairly inevitable.