Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[Zargo]

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I can’t find those quotes in the source provided. I’m assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org can’t link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and it’s another example of Mike’s support/involvement in the project:

“As a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group members’ strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.”

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.

[HeyJude]

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I can’t find those quotes in the source provided. I’m assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org can’t link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and it’s another example of Mike’s support/involvement in the project:

“As a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group members’ strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.”

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.

The point is that eight years later it hasn't happened,  Mike has NEVER mentioned it in an interview,  nor has he made any other moves to champion such things. 

[Zargo]

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I can’t find those quotes in the source provided. I’m assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org can’t link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and it’s another example of Mike’s support/involvement in the project:

“As a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group members’ strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.”

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.

The point is that eight years later it hasn't happened,  Mike has NEVER mentioned it in an interview,  nor has he made any other moves to champion such things.  

I don't recall any of the Beach Boys "championing" too many releases outside of new solo albums, but I agree it would be nice if he did.

[HeyJude]

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I can’t find those quotes in the source provided. I’m assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org can’t link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and it’s another example of Mike’s support/involvement in the project:

“As a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group members’ strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.”

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.

The point is that eight years later it hasn't happened,  Mike has NEVER mentioned it in an interview,  nor has he made any other moves to champion such things.  

I don't recall any of the Beach Boys "championing" too many releases outside of new solo albums, but I agree it would be nice if he did.

Exactly, the band members have often if not usually *not* seen the intrinsic value of their archives and of putting the music out for the sake of the music, and nothing more. They usually need some sort of outside impetus/motivation/lobbying, which is why I am so grateful for the folks working on these sets (Boyd, Linett, Edelson, and others in the past) doing so and making these things happen.

So I can't honestly give much credit to a band member one time, offhandedly on a whim mentioning some idea for a release like that. Of course everyone at one point or another *talks* about something that doesn't actually happen. A million things happen that can dictate that something one talks about doesn't end up happening. But in this case, the track record and evidence is that Mike Love has never shown a motivation to champion archival releases from scratch, or devising an idea and then working to make it happen. At best, he has *sometimes* supported things devised/worked on *by others* and signed off on those things. Which is great when it happens.

But no, I can't say with a straight face that Mike one time seven or eight years ago mentioning some idea for a boxed set is anything more than Mike one time offhandedly mentioning some idea.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

I was really surprised when I saw the Mike&Bruce Beach Boys in summer 2017, and Mike never once mentioned the 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow archival set that was newly released. During intermission there was even a slideshow advertising Mike's book and other stuff for purchase, but no reference to it.

[guitarfool2002]

I remember very well the case with Sunshine Tomorrow's release in the summer of 2017 and Mike's activities related to that release.

For those interested in more of that discussion, here is a discussion from that time which touched on that topic:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25259.0.html

For those not willing to read through a 3+ year old discussion, this is the recap.

"Sunshine Tomorrow" was released and got very positive response from the fans, as well as the music press who picked up the story. It literally did shed new light on what was a misunderstood and in some cases a misreported era of the band, and perhaps just as much an era of Brian Wilson's productions for the band. 2017 was of course the 50th anniversary of 1967's musical output, and knowing how this band/brand loves an anniversary, it was a good fit in terms of possible promotion too.

So the question I had then, and which others have raised in this current topic, was "Where was Mike Love?".

Mike and band appeared on a national broadcast of the July 4th concert. Mike had a chance to promote this archival set, a set featuring some truly stellar performances from Mike personally as well as the band as a whole, to a national TV audience full of potential buyers.

Mike said nothing about the 1967 release.

Instead, just days after "Sunshine Tomorrow" was released, Mike released his own music, a remake with a promo video shot in a hotel room, of "Do It Again" featuring Mark McGrath and John Stamos.

Mike promoted that on the TV broadcast, with both Stamos and McGrath on stage, as "our" new release. Not a word about the 1967 archival Beach Boys release that had dropped days earlier and was generating some buzz in the music press.

So the takeaway was watching the priorities play out for fans to see. The choice would be to promote both Sunshine Tomorrow and the Love-McGrath-Stamos release, or totally ignore the archival release and instead promote the Love solo release, and do so as "our new release", with the word our representing..."The Beach Boys" who played it on live TV for millions watching a holiday concert?

Mike of course chose the latter. And he piggybacked his own single release, the remake of a 49 year old Beach Boys classic, onto the release of archival material from 1967.

That's not the only time this happened, and yes once again it may be this one fan's personal hangup and gripe about the whole thing, but there is somewhat of a pattern behind this where Mike either ignores the archival material in favor of promoting his tours and touring band, or tries to piggyback his own releases onto something released featuring the original Beach Boys name and archival music.

Judge for yourself if the same deja vu will happen all over again, to paraphrase the great philosopher Yogi Berra.

[CenturyDeprived]

I remember very well the case with Sunshine Tomorrow's release in the summer of 2017 and Mike's activities related to that release.

For those interested in more of that discussion, here is a discussion from that time which touched on that topic:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25259.0.html

For those not willing to read through a 3+ year old discussion, this is the recap.

"Sunshine Tomorrow" was released and got very positive response from the fans, as well as the music press who picked up the story. It literally did shed new light on what was a misunderstood and in some cases a misreported era of the band, and perhaps just as much an era of Brian Wilson's productions for the band. 2017 was of course the 50th anniversary of 1967's musical output, and knowing how this band/brand loves an anniversary, it was a good fit in terms of possible promotion too.

So the question I had then, and which others have raised in this current topic, was "Where was Mike Love?".

Mike and band appeared on a national broadcast of the July 4th concert. Mike had a chance to promote this archival set, a set featuring some truly stellar performances from Mike personally as well as the band as a whole, to a national TV audience full of potential buyers.

Mike said nothing about the 1967 release.

Instead, just days after "Sunshine Tomorrow" was released, Mike released his own music, a remake with a promo video shot in a hotel room, of "Do It Again" featuring Mark McGrath and John Stamos.

Mike promoted that on the TV broadcast, with both Stamos and McGrath on stage, as "our" new release. Not a word about the 1967 archival Beach Boys release that had dropped days earlier and was generating some buzz in the music press.

So the takeaway was watching the priorities play out for fans to see. The choice would be to promote both Sunshine Tomorrow and the Love-McGrath-Stamos release, or totally ignore the archival release and instead promote the Love solo release, and do so as "our new release", with the word our representing..."The Beach Boys" who played it on live TV for millions watching a holiday concert?

Mike of course chose the latter. And he piggybacked his own single release, the remake of a 49 year old Beach Boys classic, onto the release of archival material from 1967.

That's not the only time this happened, and yes once again it may be this one fan's personal hangup and gripe about the whole thing, but there is somewhat of a pattern behind this where Mike either ignores the archival material in favor of promoting his tours and touring band, or tries to piggyback his own releases onto something released featuring the original Beach Boys name and archival music.

Judge for yourself if the same deja vu will happen all over again, to paraphrase the great philosopher Yogi Berra.

I remember that well, and it was utterly shocking. 

This music from sunshine tomorrow was not only great music that was getting great reviews and positive reevaluation, but it was a rare instance where there was undeniably a great Brian Wilson AND Mike Love collab from years earlier that was getting a bunch of newfound public attention and praise, but somehow he chose to largely ignore that, and instead piggyback on BBs music being in the news by releasing utterly embarrassing new drek with McGrath, stuff that ranks among the absolute worst of the worst for him, and that's really saying something.

Trying to understand how his mind works is a very difficult thing, but all I can think of is that he thought a remake would gain traction and get him a bunch of accolades from the M&B-attending meat and potatoes crowd. And that archival stuff, no matter how highly reviewed, would not.

That's certainly a disturbing yet plausible theory about what's happening here, if it comes down to him being obsessed with branding the band in a certain way and not having the public focused on stuff that doesn't have the "classic" sound that low-information fans are most familiar with. And i'm surprised Mike doesn't have a line of stage banter that says "I love the poorly educated".

[HeyJude]

The mismatch between "the band" as it exists historically and the branded touring operation using the name is always going to be a problem.

There's no precise, perfect way to balance those two things; it's a flawed, dysfunctional set up that is a result of historically flawed (or non) management and various band members not protecting the legacy properly. But they certainly could have and still could do better than they have in trying to keep a "touring band" going while also keeping the historical "band" going as an artistic force via archival releases, etc.

Mike just doesn't try. In the aftermath of 1998, he went out of his way to *not* associate his touring brand with former members. There was a good number of years there where Mike almost never even *mentioned* Al's name let alone talked about *working* with Al again.

In more recent years, it might seem like Mike has softened on this stance, using old footage on screens at his shows of former band members, etc. But all he has really done is found the limits to how much he can *use* those elements of the band's legacy without it hurting his current touring band which doesn't match that legacy at all (in a literal sense; it doesn't have the same members).

2020 has mostly been a dead year for every element of the band and its branding (both the historical group and Mike's touring brand). They've been lying dormant now for over six months, and what do we have to show for it? An embarrassing single from Mike, a bunch of  "Throwback Thursday!!!!" posts from Brian and Al on social media, and a hand full of Mike concerts that are of questionable safety.

There are a hundred things the *brand* could have done over the last six months to keep themselves and fans active, even if the band members don't want to actually do anything *together*. If they were willing to actually work together, there are a thousand things they could have done.

But nothing. A beautiful boxed set ready to go, and instead we get drive-in-theater Mike gigs and "anniversary reviews" of old albums in fanzines.

Al has had his own studio literally a 10-second walk from his front door for over 40 years now, and he almost never puts anything out. Wtf?

And it isn't only band members. Where's Carl's estate? I'm not even talking about BRI activities/votes. Surely Carl has solo demos and things like that that could have been released. Has Dennis's family tried to make any Dennis releases happen?

With the partial exception of Brian who has at least remained relatively active on various levels (even if sometimes solo), I'm not willing to give much of anybody in that organization credit for actively spearheading much of *anything* to do with their archive or legacy, and certainly not Mike for one time eight years ago offhandedly mentioning an idea for a set (and for all we know, his vision for even *that* set may have involved mostly just a repackage of previously released songs).

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Agree with all of this, HeyJude. It is completely dysfunctional. 

[BeachBoysCovers]

Do you ever wonder if you are reading too much into an off-hand quote Mark made 7 years ago.

[Bicyclerider]

I was really surprised when I saw the Mike&Bruce Beach Boys in summer 2017, and Mike never once mentioned the 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow archival set that was newly released. During intermission there was even a slideshow advertising Mike's book and other stuff for purchase, but no reference to it.

But didn't Mike and his band do a "Wild Honey" tour for the 50th anniversary of the album, which at least indirectly ties in to the archival release?

[HeyJude]

I was really surprised when I saw the Mike&Bruce Beach Boys in summer 2017, and Mike never once mentioned the 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow archival set that was newly released. During intermission there was even a slideshow advertising Mike's book and other stuff for purchase, but no reference to it.

But didn't Mike and his band do a "Wild Honey" tour for the 50th anniversary of the album, which at least indirectly ties in to the archival release?

As far as I could tell, that had zero to do with the archival releases. The archival release happened due to the 50th anniversary, and Mike named the tour that way because he spent several years there in the mid-2010s trying to wrap each year's touring marketing around an anniversary.

As was pointed out some time back, he did a TV appearance right around the time "Sunshine Tomorrow" came out, and he chose to start pushing his infamous "Do It Again" robo-remake.

To be clear, I've never felt a need for Mike's solo tour to promote BB projects. I think it's always good for all members including Mike to participate in promotions and the making of archival releases, via doing interviews for liner notes, and doing other media promotions, shooting video interviews for EPKs, all of that stuff. But I've never liked Mike's touring band being co-mingled/conflated with *the* band, so I've never felt the need to see Mike on stage at his licensed shows talking at length about releases that feature a bunch of members he doesn't have on stage. I'm not saying it would really hurt if he mentioned such sets during his shows.

In any event, at the end of the day he has never pushed archival releases hard at his shows. He does so many shows every year that I can't speak to whether he ever mentioned this or that release. I suspect he didn't push "Hawthorne, CA" on stage during shows in 2001, but I can't actually say whether he ever mentioned it over the course of hundreds of shows.

[Da Doo Ron Ron]

In this clip from 1988 it mentions that George Harrison called Brian's manager and wanted to work with him. Does anyone have more info about this? Did they ever meet up? It's interesting that George contacted Brian because the only Beatle you usually hear about with respect to the Beach Boys is Paul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRpng94KjyE

[c-man]

In this clip from 1988 it mentions that George Harrison called Brian's manager and wanted to work with him. Does anyone have more info about this? Did they ever meet up? It's interesting that George contacted Brian because the only Beatle you usually hear about with respect to the Beach Boys is Paul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRpng94KjyE

Although I've not seen a lot about it in print, George was a fan of the Boys...he spoke in interviews promoting Cloud Nineabout how he did a "Beach Boys track" ("Just For Today", with it's counterpoint harmonies) on the album (although his co-producer on that was probably an even bigger BBs fan...).

[phirnis]

Why is "When Girls Get Together" universally despised among BB fan circles? Must be the lyrics, right? I agree they're awkward but I don't find them particularly offensive and the backing track is pretty amazing I think.

[CenturyDeprived]

Why is "When Girls Get Together" universally despised among BB fan circles? Must be the lyrics, right? I agree they're awkward but I don't find them particularly offensive and the backing track is pretty amazing I think.

The lyrics are rather embarrassing even if well-intended, and the vocal melody is just a boring duplicate of the backing track melody, making it really boring and plodding IMHO. It doesn't really go anywhere.

Although I do sort of like the brief bridge which reminds me of an old television network logo type of sound. Something I would expect to hear over "now in color on NBC!"

[phirnis]

That makes perfect sense, thank you. That said, I really hope we're going to get to hear the song's backing track in high quality on the Feel Flows box!

[phirnis]

One more insignificant question; I was listening to Carl and the Passions for the first time in a while (blown away by "Marcella"!) and I was wondering to which extent Brian contributed to "He Come Down". It's usually considered to be more of an Al/Mike song I think yet the writing credit says Jardine/Wilson/Love. Could this be a song that originated from a very sketchy Brian tune (probably without lyrics at that point?) that was then further developed by the other two?

[WillJC]

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[Mr. Wilson Joliet]

One more insignificant question; I was listening to Carl and the Passions for the first time in a while (blown away by "Marcella"!) and I was wondering to which extent Brian contributed to "He Come Down". It's usually considered to be more of an Al/Mike song I think yet the writing credit says Jardine/Wilson/Love. Could this be a song that originated from a very sketchy Brian tune (probably without lyrics at that point?) that was then further developed by the other two?

It'd be the other way around - All This is That and He Come Down have both been spoken about as Al tunes written during the TM retreat that Mike gave a lyrical assist to, then at some point a Wilson made their own changes to each in the studio. Annoyingly little's been said about it, but Brian is apparently responsible for a lot of the arrangement. The vocals definitely (he's singing all over it), the track maybe (that's likely him on piano and one of the two organ parts). And I'd be surprised if he didn't write the chorus.

That was my thinking too, especially when listening to some of Brian's other gospel-tinged numbers ("Walking Down the Path of Life", "That Same Song", both of which I'm pretty sure reuse similar sections of music from "He Come Down"). Plus didn't Brian mention somewhat recently doing a "new" song with Blondie called "He Come Down"? Seems like he's more attached to the song than Al or Mike.

Also, mind letting me know what lines he sings if you can? In my searches and enquiries people always point out that he sings on the song, rarely has anyone pointed out where he sings on it, and even then it's always mixed answers. Doesn't help that there's soooooo many vocal lines happening (another constant feature of Brian's songs during this period) and that this was during the early stages of his voice changing so nothing's immediately recognizable.

God I love this song.

[WillJC]

.

[Mr. Wilson Joliet]

One more insignificant question; I was listening to Carl and the Passions for the first time in a while (blown away by "Marcella"!) and I was wondering to which extent Brian contributed to "He Come Down". It's usually considered to be more of an Al/Mike song I think yet the writing credit says Jardine/Wilson/Love. Could this be a song that originated from a very sketchy Brian tune (probably without lyrics at that point?) that was then further developed by the other two?

It'd be the other way around - All This is That and He Come Down have both been spoken about as Al tunes written during the TM retreat that Mike gave a lyrical assist to, then at some point a Wilson made their own changes to each in the studio. Annoyingly little's been said about it, but Brian is apparently responsible for a lot of the arrangement. The vocals definitely (he's singing all over it), the track maybe (that's likely him on piano and one of the two organ parts). And I'd be surprised if he didn't write the chorus.

That was my thinking too, especially when listening to some of Brian's other gospel-tinged numbers ("Walking Down the Path of Life", "That Same Song", both of which I'm pretty sure reuse similar sections of music from "He Come Down"). Plus didn't Brian mention somewhat recently doing a "new" song with Blondie called "He Come Down"? Seems like he's more attached to the song than Al or Mike.

Also, mind letting me know what lines he sings if you can? In my searches and enquiries people always point out that he sings on the song, rarely has anyone pointed out where he sings on it, and even then it's always mixed answers. Doesn't help that there's soooooo many vocal lines happening (another constant feature of Brian's songs during this period) and that this was during the early stages of his voice changing so nothing's immediately recognizable.

God I love this song.

Brian's there anonymously in the lower mid range of all the group harmony vocals, most noticeable in the big "yes I believe" where he's above Mike and his final "eeee" draws out longer than anyone else. At the start of the second chorus he sings "oh lord I believe, oh yes I believe" on the right, does a 15 Big Ones ish "talk about Jesus" in the middle soon after, some "yeah" bass vocals in the penultimate section, and in the fade he's screaming "yes I believe" with Blondie on the left.

Thanks for that! I had an inkling most of those were Brian. I knew the "eee" was commonly attributed to him, but the others I've heard attributed to Dennis, Mike and Blondie and/or Ricky respectively, and honestly it's not too much of a stretch. Crazy to think at one point Brian could sound like everyone else in the group! I thought that only happened with married couples

[phirnis]

Thanks for the info! Makes me love that song even more. Brian really wasn't that inactive during the So Tough sessions - not in charge by any means but still clearly a contributing member of the band. Makes me wonder what those early 70s albums would sound like if Brian had worked on everyone's material like this. I mean, I love those records the way they are but still...

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Why is "When Girls Get Together" universally despised among BB fan circles? Must be the lyrics, right? I agree they're awkward but I don't find them particularly offensive and the backing track is pretty amazing I think.

It's kind of a weird song. The lyrics are painfully corny, but I do really like the feel and the sound of it. Kind of a circusy sound that deepens into something more poignant. It needed better lyrics and it feels somewhat adrift being placed towards the end of KTSA.

[WillJC]

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