Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[TdHabib]

Alan suggested it to Brian circa 1965, Brian did his arrangement, yadda yadda yadda and last I heard, Alan was still bitching that he never got credit for 'inspiring' Brian to record it. Y'know, I try but sometimes it's hard to warm to the guy.

cough-Rachael & The Revolvers 45-cough.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Alan suggested it to Brian circa 1965, Brian did his arrangement, yadda yadda yadda and last I heard, Alan was still bitching that he never got credit for 'inspiring' Brian to record it. Y'know, I try but sometimes it's hard to warm to the guy.

cough-Rachael & The Revolvers 45-cough.

That too. 

[Wirestone]

A few different points to earlier questions ...

I've always wondered about the title: Terri, She needs me...I always thought someone missheard Sheri She Needs me from the Brian vocal in 76-77-78, whichever...but now I read on AGD's site that Terri was written or recorded around 88, was this for the BW solo album? using the old backing track or new one?

Given that the original song, Sherri, was co-written with Russ Titelman in the 60s and that Titelman was a co-producer on BW88, it only makes sense that they resurrected the tune in '87. (http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs87.html). I have always assumed they cut a new track, just because there's no way the 60s instrumentation would fit on what they were doing for the 88 album.

...and How Can We Still be Dancing was an Imagination outtake, correct?

Brian always talked about the song as being meant for a follow-up album, which Brian and Joe apparently started work on in 98-99, before the touring kicked in. The released track for GIOMH itself comes from those sessions, if I'm not mistaken. As AGD said, they seem to have recut HCWSBD.

I was watching this amusing YouTube video, which details the various songs that Brian has (at least) inserted the "Shortenin' Bread" bass riff into, and it got me a-wonderin' about other examples of this sort of musical recycling. I guess I'm not especially good at this sort of auditory guesswork because I've only noticed it before in the 'dit-dit-dit' melody bits of "All Dressed Up for School" > "Games Two Can Play" > "Marcella" [and, at that, only especially in the first two]. Any other neat examples would be instructive and fun too! Smiley

There are books that could be written about this. Brian never forgets a good riff (or song). If we restrict ourselves to riffs, rather than melodies, one that comes to mind is the "ah-oom bop-did-it" from "This Whole World" which later popped up on the Paley sessions tune "God Did It" as the melody behind the title line, and then at the end of "Your Imagination." Likewise, the little "bop didit, bop didit" that Brian used to accompany his late 90s version of "Joy to the World" shows up as a flute figure in the remake of "Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel" on GIOMH. And many, many others.

[Wirestone]

Have a question of my own -- the TLOS narration tracks. Is there any indication Brian actually composed music for those? My assumption was always that Scott and Darian just took some riffs from the songs and arranged them as backing. But all of them are credited Wilson / Parks -- not that that means anything, of course.

[punkinhead]

A few different points to earlier questions ...

I've always wondered about the title: Terri, She needs me...I always thought someone missheard Sheri She Needs me from the Brian vocal in 76-77-78, whichever...but now I read on AGD's site that Terri was written or recorded around 88, was this for the BW solo album? using the old backing track or new one?

Given that the original song, Sherri, was co-written with Russ Titelman in the 60s and that Titelman was a co-producer on BW88, it only makes sense that they resurrected the tune in '87. (http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs87.html). I have always assumed they cut a new track, just because there's no way the 60s instrumentation would fit on what they were doing for the 88 album.

...and How Can We Still be Dancing was an Imagination outtake, correct?

Brian always talked about the song as being meant for a follow-up album, which Brian and Joe apparently started work on in 98-99, before the touring kicked in. The released track for GIOMH itself comes from those sessions, if I'm not mistaken. As AGD said, they seem to have recut HCWSBD.

I was watching this amusing YouTube video, which details the various songs that Brian has (at least) inserted the "Shortenin' Bread" bass riff into, and it got me a-wonderin' about other examples of this sort of musical recycling. I guess I'm not especially good at this sort of auditory guesswork because I've only noticed it before in the 'dit-dit-dit' melody bits of "All Dressed Up for School" > "Games Two Can Play" > "Marcella" [and, at that, only especially in the first two]. Any other neat examples would be instructive and fun too! Smiley

There are books that could be written about this. Brian never forgets a good riff (or song). If we restrict ourselves to riffs, rather than melodies, one that comes to mind is the "ah-oom bop-did-it" from "This Whole World" which later popped up on the Paley sessions tune "God Did It" as the melody behind the title line, and then at the end of "Your Imagination." Likewise, the little "bop didit, bop didit" that Brian used to accompany his late 90s version of "Joy to the World" shows up as a flute figure in the remake of "Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel" on GIOMH. And many, many others.

good call my friend

[Mr. Cohen]

Alan suggested it to Brian circa 1965, Brian did his arrangement, yadda yadda yadda and last I heard, Alan was still bitching that he never got credit for 'inspiring' Brian to record it. Y'know, I try but sometimes it's hard to warm to the guy.

Well, Al claims that when he first suggested it, Brian said he wasn't interested because he thought the Kingston Trio's music was too simple. So, Al's story goes that he added a chord to the song, or changed how the chords were played around a little, which Brian then recorded. Comparing the two versions, I've found, is tricky. I can't find the original version of the Kingston Trio's "Sloop John B" for free on the web, and I don't feel like paying for it, but from what I can tell from the version I've heard the Kingston Trio do (and some chord pages, which you can't always trust), the Kingston Trio don't always make the chord change to A minor that Beach Boys do. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. It's weird.

[Jay]

Don't forget that Sloop John B is also among the songs on the "garage tapes", and that was way back in 1960. So obviously Brian had to have heard it long before Al Jardine came into the picture.

[Myk Luhv]

Don't forget that Sloop John B is also among the songs on the "garage tapes", and that was way back in 1960. So obviously Brian had to have heard it long before Al Jardine came into the picture.

Yeah, this is what I was referring to when I asked my question originally, and why I was wondering if the common narrative of "Al suggested it" meant more 'suggest to record' than 'introduced Brian to the song and also convinced him to record it'. It seems to me that it could be taken both ways and that perhaps Al had wanted it to be seen more as the latter than the former sort of suggestion for whatever (financial, personal prestige) reason(s)...

[filledeplage]

First, because the thread is "Locked" I just read John's Definitive Vocals thread...exquisite work...Thanks, I will be really listening...

Second, I would like to "gently suggest" that I don't get how someone wants to "get credit"  for "suggesting" that a composer "work" on arranging a song.  The "actual work" is what merits credit not the suggestion that  a composer take it on as a project. 

Now, if it had been a "collaborative effort" that is a different story, and it seems over time, that people that did "active work" (not "suggestions" for arranged adaptations) and for whom real compositional credit was not awarded.  If you do "actual work" you should get "actual credit." Your notes, tapes, revisions all support your effort and contributions.  It is the concept of writing down, memorializing, or taping to "memorialize" your work to prove what you did should be credited.  It is tangible.

An exception might be where you work for someone as their employee, and "your" work becomes "their" intellectual property, such as a scientist working for a chemical company.  The work can either be shared by the two or owned by the company outright and by "arrangement" (no pun intended.)  You would be using their laboratory and work space, so it is a different scenario.     

There seems to be a disconnect as between "bringing something to the table of merit" and actually sitting with a pencil on sheet music at a piano or other keyboard, and studiously working through measures or working by yourself and later working out "jointly" details for a common "work." 

Maybe I did not understand the discussion of who deserved what credit.

As a general rule, "inspiration" (intangible) gets your name on the stern of a boat ;  the "actual work" (tangible) gets your name on the "check in the mail."       

[Roger Ryan]

Have a question of my own -- the TLOS narration tracks. Is there any indication Brian actually composed music for those? My assumption was always that Scott and Darian just took some riffs from the songs and arranged them as backing. But all of them are credited Wilson / Parks -- not that that means anything, of course.

For what it's worth, the TLOS documentary shows Brian demonstrating to Darian how he wants the piano part to be played on "Between Pictures" (I believe). Now, it could have been staged to look like Brian cared...or it could be that Brian did write it specifically as a connecting track...or the Darian came up with it, but producer Brian wanted it played a certain way. Take your pick!

[Don_Zabu]

I keep hearing the word "Bloo" thrown around. What does it mean? I guess I'm not well-versed.

[Jonas]

Blueboard, the official brian wilson messageboard

aka the worst laid out msg board ever: http://www.brianwilson.com/community/index.html

[BJL]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that Sloop John B was in their live set in the early 60s, but I can't remember where, so I don't know...  I always assumed in that iteration they would have been going off the Dick Dale arrangement from his first record.

I think what Al is talking about when he says he suggested the song to Brian is that he convinced Brian to re-record this old song they knew from way back when in the Beach Boys more modern style, and release it as a single, which in 1965 or whenever this conversation was happening, deciding what the next single would be was probably a big deal, and probably a decision that Brian usually pretty much made on his own.

[Don_Zabu]

Blueboard, the official brian wilson messageboard

aka the worst laid out msg board ever: http://www.brianwilson.com/community/index.html

Whoa. You're right.

[punkinhead]

Blueboard, the official brian wilson messageboard

aka the worst laid out msg board ever: http://www.brianwilson.com/community/index.html

awww, I remember being apart of that board...and pissing off Brian when I asked about SOTs (so innocent at the time, I had no idea they were boots)...he replied and asked me not to discuss that there.

[Myk Luhv]

Is it actually Brian who posts on his board -- or updates his Twitter or Facebook, for that matter? I am extremely skeptical, but I guess I could be surprided.

Why is he (his handlers?) so vehemently anti-bootleg anyway? I mean, besides the obvious "we want money" thing... or is that all there is to it? The SOT discs are a phenomenal resource and it's not as if they're not discussed in published books by various folks on the BBs.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I wonder how Brian reacted when he realized his band all owned bootlegs!

[Wirestone]

Because bootlegs, like it or not, are traditionally produced through theft of intellectual property. They are stolen material, published to make money for people who aren't the creators.

It's pretty simple. (I'm not saying there aren't amazing things to listen to, just that the morality behind them is dubious, and as someone who makes a living from recorded music, Brian -- or the people responding for him -- have a pretty clear-cut case in refusing to grant them their imprimatur.) This is the classic bootleg model I'm talking about here -- file swapping has changed both the morality of the equation and the material available.

[Myk Luhv]

Because bootlegs, like it or not, are traditionally produced through theft of intellectual property. They are stolen material, published to make money for people who aren't the creators.

It's pretty simple. (I'm not saying there aren't amazing things to listen to, just that the morality behind them is dubious, and as someone who makes a living from recorded music, Brian -- or the people responding for him -- have a pretty clear-cut case in refusing to grant them their imprimatur.) This is the classic bootleg model I'm talking about here -- file swapping has changed both the morality of the equation and the material available.

Yeah, this part is understandable enough. I actually dislike "traditional" bootlegs myself as well because of that same reason. I am perfectly okay with trading and file-sharing bootlegs though, especially for material that would otherwise never see the light of an official release... but I guess at that point they're not the same sort of boots (e.g. Purple Chick stuff, the Get The Boot volumes, and so on). At the same time, however, I am sort of in line with the Folkways method of music distribution: if a major label won't do it, someone should put it out because music deserves to be heard. The Anthology of American Folk Music, compiled by Harry Smith, for instance, was of dubious legality, considering it was sourced from old 78s recorded by Victor and Paramount and whatnot -- who were, you might say, less than happy about the box set from which they saw no royalties. But they never re-released any of the music they ostensibly owned themselves so...

Suffice to say, I am conflicted. I say this as someone who very much likes music but does not make it, and definitely not for a living. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I did, of course.

[Paulos]

Blueboard, the official brian wilson messageboard

aka the worst laid out msg board ever: http://www.brianwilson.com/community/index.html

The lay out is the main reason I never bother going on the bloo, the threads are really hard to follow and you have to wonder why a more suitable message board isn't used.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Is it actually Brian who posts on his board -- or updates his Twitter or Facebook, for that matter? I am extremely skeptical, but I guess I could be surprided.

No: Brian explained in an online interview ten years ago that he isn't at all computer savvy and that Melinda does the typing for him. She selects post for him to respond to, then types said replies. Of course, the Bloo being the Bloo - and here I'm proud to admit that said appellation is wholly down to me ! - there are posters who still maintain that Brian does his own posts. The twitters are Jeff and the Facebook page is run by Bloo admin Michael deMartin, and is the only official FB BW page (the FB page Brian Wilson's Blueboarders was set up by the loathsome Bluebird and, I admit, quite cleverly gave the impression that it was endorsed by Brian).

[Myk Luhv]

Is it actually Brian who posts on his board -- or updates his Twitter or Facebook, for that matter? I am extremely skeptical, but I guess I could be surprided.

No: Brian explained in an online interview ten years ago that he isn't at all computer savvy and that Melinda does the typing for him. She selects post for him to respond to, then types said replies. Of course, the Bloo being the Bloo - and here I'm proud to admit that said appellation is wholly down to me ! - there are posters who still maintain that Brian does his own posts. The twitters are Jeff and the Facebook page is run by Bloo admin Michael deMartin, and is the only official FB BW page (the FB page Brian Wilson's Blueboarders was set up by the loathsome Bluebird and, I admit, quite cleverly gave the impression that it was endorsed by Brian).

Well, at least they're his responses in spirit despite not being so in letter too? Nothing new about that kinda setup though anyway, so it shouldn't be at all surprising to anyone that this is the case, I'd think.

[Wirestone]

My favorite were the responses by Melinda that were later taken down ... I recall they predicted stuff that later came to pass, but they were supposedly hacked.

[GLarson432]

I'm proud to say that I haven't looked at/visited the Bloo, not even once, since a week after the Landmark Dedication on 5/20/05.  What a piece of junk!

[hypehat]

Are there more BW piano demos like the 'Don't Talk' one on the Pet Sounds box in the vaults?