Tony Asher after Pet Sounds

[hypehat]

but the meaning of Here Today is almost anti - love... how he's been ruined by this girl and love itself. But the words themselves are a little simplistic, granted 

[Bicyclerider]

On Wouldn't It Be Nice Mike wrote one line - the "good night, baby, sleep tight, baby" at the end.

[Ebb and Flow]

On the other hand, the line "you'll never know what we've been through" makes absolutely no sense!  How could she not know something that they've both been through?

I always got the sense it was about the narrator finally telling a girl how he feels about her.  Building all your goals around someone who has no idea how you feel about them = "You'll never know what we've been through".

[Chris Brown]

On the other hand, the line "you'll never know what we've been through" makes absolutely no sense!  How could she not know something that they've both been through?

I always got the sense it was about the narrator finally telling a girl how he feels about her.  Building all your goals around someone who has no idea how you feel about them = "You'll never know what we've been through".

Yeah that's kinda that view I've always taken...the "we" is more in his head, as in he has thought so much about them being together that they are already "we" in his mind.

[Sheriff John Stone]

On the other hand, the line "you'll never know what we've been through" makes absolutely no sense!  How could she not know something that they've both been through?

I always got the sense it was about the narrator finally telling a girl how he feels about her.  Building all your goals around someone who has no idea how you feel about them = "You'll never know what we've been through".

Yeah that's kinda that view I've always taken...the "we" is more in his head, as in he has thought so much about them being together that they are already "we" in his mind.

Yep, and the best line in the song.

[Dove Nested Towers]

(talking to myself) I wanna make sure that I express this properly....

I like Van Dyke Parks' SMiLE lyrics, I appreciate them, and I'm glad he collaborated with Brian on SMiLE. Brian deserved to be able to create "art" instead of catchy pop songs (which are also "art" BTW, but you know what I mean).

That being said, I know I would've been like Mike Love and NOT appreciated them in 1966. And, I will give the primary example: "Surf's Up". Oh, I love the song; the melody, arrangement, and Brian's vocal (regardless of what HE says) are spectacular. But, that being said, the song itself does not "touch" me like some of Brian's other classics - i.e. "Caroline, No", "The Warmth Of The Sun", "Don't Worry, Baby", or even "All Summer Long". Not to sound like a simpleton or a graduate of the Mike Love school of lyric writing, but I can't relate to much of "Surf's Up" - lyrically. Oh, I know what the words mean, I've read the translation! But, there are times when I'm listening to the track, sometimes just the instrumental track, and think, "I wish this was a love song or something, at least a subject that would touch me MORE". I sometimes feel that Brian wasted such a great vocal (I know that sounds extreme), but "columnated ruins domino" just doesn't get to me the way - "What matters to me is how I can be to just one girl", or even "Late at night I think about the love of this whole world". Do I sound like Mike Love?

Anyway, I'm glad we have SMiLE, and "Surf's Up", and Van Dyke's lyrics, but I don't put a blanket on all of the words as being effective - to me anyway....

Parks' lyrics are tantalizing, oblique and evocative. "Columnated ruins domino" and the rest of the
lyrics to "Surf's Up" are of course not literal, although they do have metaphorical and symbolic meanings, but the whole song, to me, exists on almost a different, more delicate, exalted plane of consciousness than normal, and takes me to that place. It's not emotionally "moving" in a conventional sense, but equally thrilling in an abstract, atmospheric way.

"Cabinessence" has an ethereal, incredibly yearning, spacy but simultaneously grounded quality that
is truly unique. The verse sections especially are tantalizing and hint at an ultimate, comforting, cosmic
hominess and compassion. Amazing stuff.

"Wonderful" is SO evocative and delicately beautiful, with its imagery of innocent children's games and the discovery of young love. The alchemy that Parks achieved with Brian's melodies was, to me,
utterly miraculous and "moving" in a non-literal but completely transcendent way. The "Wonderful/Look
/Song For Children/Child is Father of the Man/Surf's Up montage, if it had been completed lyrically and
vocally and assembled in '66-'67, assuming it would have come together in that form back then, would
have been simply stunning (not that the BWPS version isn't, but vocally and in other intangible ways it's not quite the same).

Parks can be a little bit glib and self-consciously cute, and may not be "a great poet" but his Smile lyrics are emotionally evocative in an unusual, hard-to-define sense. They may not be everyone's cup of tea, or move everyone, but they move me in a curious way.

Characterizing Parks' lyrics as merely clever but unemotional sells him short, and definitely short-
changes the "greater than the sum of its parts" (the parts being pretty damn great) inspiration and
magic of what they achieved together, complementing each other perfectly in that short, sweet burst
of creative spark, "SMiLE".

[Autotune]

... (I mean, what borderline legend responds to emails from every Tom, Dick and Harry?) ....

I can attest to that!

But it is also interesting that Brian is no more enthusiastic about VDP's music than VDP is about Brian's.

BTW I wish I could find the link to a Spanish newspaper interview with VDP about work TLOS. Parks came in very bitter about the experience (my paraphrasis: "I expected this to be a new milestone in our friendship but the whole thing was poisoned by the people around him").

[adamghost]

This is somewhat off the train of thought, but relevant to the topic:  Evie Sands once told me she and Tony Asher were mugged when they were walking together back to their cars after a dinner meeting on Ventura Blvd. in the San Fernando Valley in the '80s.  A pretty traumatic event, apparently.

[MBE]

... (I mean, what borderline legend responds to emails from every Tom, Dick and Harry?) ....

I can attest to that!

But it is also interesting that Brian is no more enthusiastic about VDP's music than VDP is about Brian's.

BTW I wish I could find the link to a Spanish newspaper interview with VDP about work TLOS. Parks came in very bitter about the experience (my paraphrasis: "I expected this to be a new milestone in our friendship but the whole thing was poisoned by the people around him").

I've always picked up a love/hate vibe there. Mainly Brian's drunken comments at Ringo's birthday, and Van Dyke's somewhat condescending or resentful remarks over the years. At the same time I have seen some great admiration between the two.

I think there is a pattern with Mike Love, Asher, and Parks in that Brian's personal irresponsibility irks them. I mean he largely made them what they are today, and all have expressed how brilliant his ideas are, but I think there is some ill feeling. I think it boils down to that they all  had to work so hard to get something good and Brian does better things with ease.  I know Bruce felt the same way to an extent even though he seldom wrote with him.

Brian seems to be kind, have a good heart, but is a coward when it comes to confrontation. He always had Murry, Landy, or Melinda to be a buffer for him. I can understand that maybe he isn't strong enough to do unpleasant things, but I equally understand why his behavior can piss off those who do business with him.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've always picked up a love/hate vibe there. Mainly Brian's drunken comments at Ringo's birthday, and Van Dyke's somewhat condescending or resentful remarks over the years. At the same time I have seen some great admiration between the two.

I think there is a pattern with Mike Love, Asher, and Parks in that Brian's personal irresponsibility irks them. I mean he largely made them what they are today, and all have expressed how brilliant his ideas are, but I think there is some ill feeling. I think it boils down to that they all  had to work so hard to get something good and Brian does better things with ease.  I know Bruce felt the same way to an extent even though he seldom wrote with him.

Brian seems to be kind, have a good heart, but is a coward when it comes to confrontation. He always had Murry, Landy, or Melinda to be a buffer for him. I can understand that maybe he isn't strong enough to do unpleasant things, but I equally understand why his behavior can piss off those who do business with him.

Very interesting and I believe accurate post, MBE. I think you could lump ALL of the Beach Boys in that group, too. With Brian first quitting the road, then the dwindling output in the late 60's/early 70's, and, eventually, basically quitting the group, I think they were all, should I say, disappointed. Yes, part of the reason(s) was medical, but there was also some basic quitting or giving up in there, too.

I think Van Dyke Parks summed it up well in some interview I read, and I'm paraphrasing, "In 1966, Brian took me in and gave me some money and bought me a car and I'll be eternally grateful to him for that." Or something like that. Is it safe to say all of the Beach Boys (including Mike to some extent, but maybe not Bruce so much) feel the same way? Everything they have is a result of being a Beach Boy. And I don't have to state how much of that is due to Brian's work. As much as they might get frustrated or disappointed with him, there's always that "look what I have because of him" hanging over them.

[Sam_BFC]

what was said at ringo's birthday?

[mikeyj]

what was said at ringo's birthday?

Brian was drunk and basically said VDP "was the biggest butthole" or something to that effect. I'd have to dig it up to remember exactly what he said.

[phirnis]

what was said at ringo's birthday?

Brian was drunk and basically said VDP "was the biggest butthole" or something to that effect. I'd have to dig it up to remember exactly what he said.

If I remember correctly, that very incident was one of the first things I got to hear of Brian Wilson after my initial purchase of Pet Sounds some nine years ago. Unfortunate at best...