Inside Pop Outtake reels: Any new developments?

[The Song Of The Grange]

There is a March 2006 post on the board regarding the on going hunt for the Inside Pop outtake reels.  Does anyone know if anything new has happened on this front since the 2006 post?  I for one am more interested in the sound track recordings that would have accompanied this footage.  There is a decent chance that these mag tracks are sitting in a film vault someplace collecting dust.  We have heard Surf's Up at Brain's house and I think the Box Set Surf's Up demo version is from this filming too().  Oh, but hearing Brian and Van Dyke talk and hearing December 1966 renditions would be an amazing break through. As many of you know from the Smile Shop article, the songs mentioned are: "Child Is Father Of Man", "Heroes & Villains", "Open Country Song" (most likely I'm In Great Shape),"Sunshine", "Surf's Up", "Who Ran The Iron Horse" , "Do Wa Wa" (whatever this was--maybe Wonderful vocals?), and a bunch of stuff from a "Wonderful" session.  The footage also would be very informative to study.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The trail ran cold, and then, of course, Oppenheim died.

[The Song Of The Grange]

As always, thanks for the info Mr. Doe.  That is a bummer--the cold trail and Oppenheim.  It seems like if the film and sound reels still exist they would most likely be in a collection of Oppenheim's reels or in a CBS vault someplace.  The March 2006 post seemed to suggest that some of Oppenheim's work was at New York University someplace.  Any idea if this is true?

[Andrew G. Doe]

As always, thanks for the info Mr. Doe.  That is a bummer--the cold trail and Oppenheim.  It seems like if the film and sound reels still exist they would most likely be in a collection of Oppenheim's reels or in a CBS vault someplace.  The March 2006 post seemed to suggest that some of Oppenheim's work was at New York University someplace.  Any idea if this is true?

If the outtakes and/or sound reels exist anywhere, it's not at NYU. That's when the trail petered out... but the discovery of Oppenheim's own notes was very important. Once they were deciphered, of course. 

[TdHabib]

SOMETHING I always wanted to know, whose decision was it to have Brian play "Surf's Up" at the piano? Was Bernstein familiar with it (somehow) previously? Was it Siegel? Can anyone clue me in.

Heck, I'm surprised Brian in his 66 mentality didn't do "Vegetables," would loved to have seen Bernstein's reaction to that! Nonetheless, the "Surf's Up" footage was always the first case I had for the "Brian Wilson is a genius" theory.

[Chris Brown]

SOMETHING I always wanted to know, whose decision was it to have Brian play "Surf's Up" at the piano? Was Bernstein familiar with it (somehow) previously? Was it Siegel? Can anyone clue me in.

I can only assume it was Brian's decision...who else (besides Van Dyke and maybe the Boys) could have heard it by that time?

[juggler]

If this footage is ever found, it'd obviously make for a mindblowing DVD package that might change the course of the Smile story.  Suppose, for example, that "Child is Father of the Man" turns out to have had different (better?) verse lyrics in 1966 than what Brian performed and recorded in 2004.  Brian and Van Dyke are extremely unlikely to revisit the project for a third time, but "new" (old) lyrics for "Child" and other songs could eventually be performed in future Smile tribute projects and that sort of thing.

[Jason]

I firmly believe that all of the Smile recordings as they existed in 1966-67 had lyrics, even the ones in booted versions with no lead vocals.

[Mahalo]

I firmly believe that all of the Smile recordings as they existed in 1966-67 had lyrics, even the ones in booted versions with no lead vocals.

I as well... I have always been under the impression that Brian Douglas Wilson has more worked out in his head than the tapes would ever reveal..after all, his track record proves it.

With that in mind I give BWPS more validity than others may, as well as his abilities and contributions on recent projects; even if Brian is more or less entering- if not already in the geezer years.

[Bicyclerider]

I firmly believe that all of the Smile recordings as they existed in 1966-67 had lyrics, even the ones in booted versions with no lead vocals.

Are you including Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, the Woodshop Song, and I Love to Say Dada in your firm belief?

[Andrew G. Doe]

SOMETHING I always wanted to know, whose decision was it to have Brian play "Surf's Up" at the piano? Was Bernstein familiar with it (somehow) previously? Was it Siegel? Can anyone clue me in.

I can only assume it was Brian's decision...who else (besides Van Dyke and maybe the Boys) could have heard it by that time?

Brian's idea, as related in the "Goodbye Surfing. Hello God !" article.

[mikeyj]

I remember reading on some blog (can't remember the address at the moment) that it wasn't Bernstein speaking over the Surf's Up portion of the special, but was in fact Oppenheim. Is this true?

[GLarson432]

Yes.  It was Oppenheim, not Bernstein, narrating.

[Cam Mott]

I can only assume it was Brian's decision...who else (besides Van Dyke and maybe the Boys) could have heard it by that time?

I don't know that he did but Oppenheim could have.  I believe, according to Vosse, Brian and Oppenehim had had a meeting previous to the filming, like in November or so.

[onkster]

Here's a clue--I believe the footage was part of the Sherman Grinberg library, wasn't it?  That library was bought just a few years ago, I believe by Associated Press.

So, the footage should still exist, so try going through AP...good luck!

[juggler]

Here's a clue--I believe the footage was part of the Sherman Grinberg library, wasn't it?  That library was bought just a few years ago, I believe by Associated Press.

So, the footage should still exist, so try going through AP...good luck!

I have no idea if you're correct that the footage was (or is) part of the Sherman Grinberg library, but here's their website:
http://sppnimages.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

It seems that their search feature requires a login/password.

[pigpen]

Here's a clue--I believe the footage was part of the Sherman Grinberg library, wasn't it?  That library was bought just a few years ago, I believe by Associated Press.

So, the footage should still exist, so try going through AP...good luck!

I have no idea if you're correct that the footage was (or is) part of the Sherman Grinberg library, but here's their website:
http://sppnimages.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

It seems that their search feature requires a login/password.

I don't know how helpful this will be, but I emailed the Film Archive Manager.  I'm dying for someone to find these reels!

[The Song Of The Grange]

Thanks so much pigpen and juggler.  If the reels and audio really do still exist, it seems like we could find a Smile fan in the "inside" who could at least review and take notes on this material.  I would love to hear and see this stuff, but I would gladly settle for a transcription along the lines of the reel box notes on the Smile Shop page.  Access to this material would be a dream come true.   

[P.J.]

Wow, it's been a long time since I heard any news on the lost Inside Pop reels. The next "holy grail" needs some more steam behind it!

[Dove Nested Towers]

Wow, it's been a long time since I heard any news on the lost Inside Pop reels. The next "holy grail" needs some more steam behind it!

Great job Onkster, Juggler & Pigpen! And Song of the Grange for igniting new enthusiasm &
leads! That would truly be holy-grail caliber footage if it can ever be located and/or seen. Lets
all say Our collective Prayer for the success of these blessed efforts! (Meanwhile preparing for
disappointment as usual. )

[The Song Of The Grange]

Here's a clue--I believe the footage was part of the Sherman Grinberg library, wasn't it?  That library was bought just a few years ago, I believe by Associated Press.

So, the footage should still exist, so try going through AP...good luck!

What makes us think the footage would be at the Sherman Grinberg library?  Did someone in the know suggest as much?

[The Song Of The Grange]

I came across this info from 2005 on the Association of Moving Image Archivists message board. 

Post was by
JE

I have sent an e-mail to JE to see if he knows anything more about the subject.

****
Hello,

I'm writing from Switzerland and I'm doing a bit of research on David Oppenheim's 1967 CBS News documentary "Inside Pop - The Rock Revolution" (first aired: 1967/04/25)
A lot of footage was shot for this one hour long film, inclusive very rare film-material of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys working on the legendary SMILE-album.
I try to find the original film reels, the outtakes. I'm in contact with the Beach Boys Archive but I do this research on my own initiative. These reels are an important documentation of the 60's LA music scene.
Of course, the first step for me was to contact the CBS News Archives in New York. Apparently, according to their records, there were 167 cans of outtakes for this documentary, however, they are not in archives anymore. They are marked as having been returned, but returned to whom, they do not know.
We found transcripts and other documents of the "Inside Pop"-project in the New York University Archives.
Here is some information about the IP crew:

Produced and Written by David Oppenheim
Associate Producer, Film Editor - Patricia Jaffe
Photography - Bernard Hirschenson, Joseph Brun
Sound - Ben Sobin
Leonard Bernstein's material written by Leonard Bernstein
Director of Graphic Arts - Rudi Bass
Graphic Artist - Bill Sunshine
Production Managers - Thomas Reynolds, David Lowe
Narrator - David Oppenheim

Unfortunately, the surviving crew-members couldn't help me.

If someone knows where the film cans can be found, please contact me!
Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thank you!

JE

[Dove Nested Towers]

I came across this info from 2005 on the Association of Moving Image Archivists message board. 

Post was by
JE

I have sent an e-mail to JE to see if he knows anything more about the subject.

****
Hello,

I'm writing from Switzerland and I'm doing a bit of research on David Oppenheim's 1967 CBS News documentary "Inside Pop - The Rock Revolution" (first aired: 1967/04/25)
A lot of footage was shot for this one hour long film, inclusive very rare film-material of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys working on the legendary SMILE-album.
I try to find the original film reels, the outtakes. I'm in contact with the Beach Boys Archive but I do this research on my own initiative. These reels are an important documentation of the 60's LA music scene.
Of course, the first step for me was to contact the CBS News Archives in New York. Apparently, according to their records, there were 167 cans of outtakes for this documentary, however, they are not in archives anymore. They are marked as having been returned, but returned to whom, they do not know.
We found transcripts and other documents of the "Inside Pop"-project in the New York University Archives.
Here is some information about the IP crew:

Produced and Written by David Oppenheim
Associate Producer, Film Editor - Patricia Jaffe
Photography - Bernard Hirschenson, Joseph Brun
Sound - Ben Sobin
Leonard Bernstein's material written by Leonard Bernstein
Director of Graphic Arts - Rudi Bass
Graphic Artist - Bill Sunshine
Production Managers - Thomas Reynolds, David Lowe
Narrator - David Oppenheim

Unfortunately, the surviving crew-members couldn't help me.

If someone knows where the film cans can be found, please contact me!
Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thank you!

JE

This kind of quest is like trying to eat fog with a spoon, there are nothing but vapor trails to follow!
If the footage really was "returned" to anyone or anywhere, whoever or whatever probably are/is oblivious to those
craving to see it, and possibly don't want it to be seen for various reasons of their/its own.

I'm still crossing my fingers and saying My Prayers. Keep hope alive!

[Ebb and Flow]

I'm not sure if somebody's found this before, but I dug this up:

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt8x0nd51b&chunk.id=c02-1.2.7.7.4&brand=oac

[ Box 1044 ]
[ Item 11 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1988 December 21 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.

On container, "CBS/Van Dyke Park/Beach Boys/12-21-88/24 trk/30 IPS."

Any idea what this could be?

[The Song Of The Grange]

I'm not sure if somebody's found this before, but I dug this up:

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt8x0nd51b&chunk.id=c02-1.2.7.7.4&brand=oac

[ Box 1044 ]
[ Item 11 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1988 December 21 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.

On container, "CBS/Van Dyke Park/Beach Boys/12-21-88/24 trk/30 IPS."

Any idea what this could be?

Did CBS do a show on the BB's and Van Dyke in 88'?  The dates alone make me think it is not our 66' holy grail.  If the 66' tapes/footage still exists, I think the biggest thrill would be to hear that performance of Child Is Father of The Man and see if there are any original verse lyrics in there.