The Smiley Smile Message Board

There is a March 2006 post on the board regarding the on going hunt for the Inside Pop outtake reels.  Does anyone know if anything new has happened on this front since the 2006 post?  I for one am more interested in the sound track recordings that would have accompanied this footage.  There is a decent chance that these mag tracks are sitting in a film vault someplace collecting dust.  We have heard Surf's Up at Brain's house and I think the Box Set Surf's Up demo version is from this filming too(???).  Oh, but hearing Brian and Van Dyke talk and hearing December 1966 renditions would be an amazing break through. As many of you know from the Smile Shop article, the songs mentioned are: "Child Is Father Of Man", "Heroes & Villains", "Open Country Song" (most likely I'm In Great Shape),"Sunshine", "Surf's Up", "Who Ran The Iron Horse" , "Do Wa Wa" (whatever this was--maybe Wonderful vocals?), and a bunch of stuff from a "Wonderful" session.  The footage also would be very informative to study.

The trail ran cold, and then, of course, Oppenheim died.

As always, thanks for the info Mr. Doe.  That is a bummer--the cold trail and Oppenheim.  It seems like if the film and sound reels still exist they would most likely be in a collection of Oppenheim's reels or in a CBS vault someplace.  The March 2006 post seemed to suggest that some of Oppenheim's work was at New York University someplace.  Any idea if this is true?

If the outtakes and/or sound reels exist anywhere, it's not at NYU. That's when the trail petered out... but the discovery of Oppenheim's own notes was very important. Once they were deciphered, of course.  :)

SOMETHING I always wanted to know, whose decision was it to have Brian play "Surf's Up" at the piano? Was Bernstein familiar with it (somehow) previously? Was it Siegel? Can anyone clue me in.

Heck, I'm surprised Brian in his 66 mentality didn't do "Vegetables," would loved to have seen Bernstein's reaction to that! Nonetheless, the "Surf's Up" footage was always the first case I had for the "Brian Wilson is a genius" theory.

I can only assume it was Brian's decision...who else (besides Van Dyke and maybe the Boys) could have heard it by that time?

If this footage is ever found, it'd obviously make for a mindblowing DVD package that might change the course of the Smile story.  Suppose, for example, that "Child is Father of the Man" turns out to have had different (better?) verse lyrics in 1966 than what Brian performed and recorded in 2004.  Brian and Van Dyke are extremely unlikely to revisit the project for a third time, but "new" (old) lyrics for "Child" and other songs could eventually be performed in future Smile tribute projects and that sort of thing.

I firmly believe that all of the Smile recordings as they existed in 1966-67 had lyrics, even the ones in booted versions with no lead vocals.

I as well... I have always been under the impression that Brian Douglas Wilson has more worked out in his head than the tapes would ever reveal..after all, his track record proves it.

With that in mind I give BWPS more validity than others may, as well as his abilities and contributions on recent projects; even if Brian is more or less entering- if not already in the geezer years.

Are you including Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, the Woodshop Song, and I Love to Say Dada in your firm belief?

Brian's idea, as related in the "Goodbye Surfing. Hello God !" article.

I remember reading on some blog (can't remember the address at the moment) that it wasn't Bernstein speaking over the Surf's Up portion of the special, but was in fact Oppenheim. Is this true?

Yes.  It was Oppenheim, not Bernstein, narrating.

I don't know that he did but Oppenheim could have.  I believe, according to Vosse, Brian and Oppenehim had had a meeting previous to the filming, like in November or so.

Here's a clue--I believe the footage was part of the Sherman Grinberg library, wasn't it?  That library was bought just a few years ago, I believe by Associated Press.

So, the footage should still exist, so try going through AP...good luck!

I have no idea if you're correct that the footage was (or is) part of the Sherman Grinberg library, but here's their website:
http://sppnimages.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

It seems that their search feature requires a login/password.

I don't know how helpful this will be, but I emailed the Film Archive Manager.  I'm dying for someone to find these reels!

Thanks so much pigpen and juggler.  If the reels and audio really do still exist, it seems like we could find a Smile fan in the "inside" who could at least review and take notes on this material.  I would love to hear and see this stuff, but I would gladly settle for a transcription along the lines of the reel box notes on the Smile Shop page.  Access to this material would be a dream come true.   

Wow, it's been a long time since I heard any news on the lost Inside Pop reels. The next "holy grail" needs some more steam behind it!

Great job Onkster, Juggler & Pigpen! And Song of the Grange for igniting new enthusiasm &
leads! That would truly be holy-grail caliber footage if it can ever be located and/or seen. Lets
all say Our collective Prayer for the success of these blessed efforts! (Meanwhile preparing for
disappointment as usual. ??? :'() :)

What makes us think the footage would be at the Sherman Grinberg library?  Did someone in the know suggest as much?

I came across this info from 2005 on the Association of Moving Image Archivists message board. 

Post was by
JE

I have sent an e-mail to JE to see if he knows anything more about the subject.

****
Hello,

I'm writing from Switzerland and I'm doing a bit of research on David Oppenheim's 1967 CBS News documentary "Inside Pop - The Rock Revolution" (first aired: 1967/04/25)
A lot of footage was shot for this one hour long film, inclusive very rare film-material of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys working on the legendary SMILE-album.
I try to find the original film reels, the outtakes. I'm in contact with the Beach Boys Archive but I do this research on my own initiative. These reels are an important documentation of the 60's LA music scene.
Of course, the first step for me was to contact the CBS News Archives in New York. Apparently, according to their records, there were 167 cans of outtakes for this documentary, however, they are not in archives anymore. They are marked as having been returned, but returned to whom, they do not know.
We found transcripts and other documents of the "Inside Pop"-project in the New York University Archives.
Here is some information about the IP crew:

Produced and Written by David Oppenheim
Associate Producer, Film Editor - Patricia Jaffe
Photography - Bernard Hirschenson, Joseph Brun
Sound - Ben Sobin
Leonard Bernstein's material written by Leonard Bernstein
Director of Graphic Arts - Rudi Bass
Graphic Artist - Bill Sunshine
Production Managers - Thomas Reynolds, David Lowe
Narrator - David Oppenheim

Unfortunately, the surviving crew-members couldn't help me.

If someone knows where the film cans can be found, please contact me!
Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thank you!

JE

This kind of quest is like trying to eat fog with a spoon, there are nothing but vapor trails to follow!
If the footage really was "returned" to anyone or anywhere, whoever or whatever probably are/is oblivious to those
craving to see it, and possibly don't want it to be seen for various reasons of their/its own.

I'm still crossing my fingers and saying My Prayers. Keep hope alive! :'(

I'm not sure if somebody's found this before, but I dug this up:

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt8x0nd51b&chunk.id=c02-1.2.7.7.4&brand=oac
 (http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt8x0nd51b&chunk.id=c02-1.2.7.7.4&brand=oac)

Any idea what this could be?

Did CBS do a show on the BB's and Van Dyke in 88'?  The dates alone make me think it is not our 66' holy grail.  If the 66' tapes/footage still exists, I think the biggest thrill would be to hear that performance of Child Is Father of The Man and see if there are any original verse lyrics in there.

The 1988 date on it is confusing, and could be incorrect, especially since to the best of my knowledge VDP and BW/The Beach Boys had no collaborations going on at that time.   CBS might have shelved a special or project, though it would be the first I've ever heard of it.

I just thought it was interesting that the CBS Film/Television collection has a box with the words "CBS/Van Dyke Park/Beach Boys" written on it.  It's probably something worth checking out.

yes sir, i'd be truly satisfied if i were ever able to hear that. it's my favorite song from smile.

any time i'm near a keyboard i just sit there as long as possible playing the chorus.

and judging by how moving brian's performance of surf's up for that show was, i have no doubt that cifotm was equally great.

"Beach Brothers" was apparently a CBS pilot (that never aired?).  It has nothing to do with the Oppenheim film from 1966.

http://www.scriptnotes.com/biography.htm

Not sure if "Beach Brothers" somehow dramatized the Beach Boys and VDP, but perhaps the writer would know.
http://cinema.usc.edu/faculty/weber-david.htm

Thanks for clearing that up.  Perhaps they planned on using "Surf's Up" or some other VDP/BW composition in the show.

I do hope these reels eventually turn up.

24 track tape didn't exist in 66/67, so any hopes of this being SMiLE-era rests on this being a transfer from another source.

Great topic, just now getting back into SMiLE, and would love to find out more.

The notation "1988 December 21" is a bit of a giveaway too...  ::)

Strange little collection that -  there're other items on the same page that I'm sure refer to the BBs, not the "Beach Bros", given the in-putter's habit of making errors (see Van Dike, etc). "Beach BRoithers" maybe might have been interpreted from a Brother Records session for the Beach Boys? With Van Dyke Parks in attendance?

Here's the interesting: the dates are all '88 or 89, yet that web page is a guide (http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt8x0nd51b&chunk.id=c02-1.2.7.7.4&brand=oac (http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt8x0nd51b&chunk.id=c02-1.2.7.7.4&brand=oac)) to CBS Film & Television collection from '55 to '83, which makes one wonder if it might indeed have been a transfer of something recorded between '55 and '83. What BBs' material would have been in a CBS vault from that era?


[ Box 1035 ]
[ Item 12 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1989 January 5 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.
On container, "CBS/Beach Bros./1-5-89/24 trk/tape 250/+3 30 IPS."

[ Box 1044 ]
[ Item 11 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1988 December 21 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.
On container, "CBS/Van Dyke Park/Beach Boys/12-21-88/24 trk/30 IPS."

[ Box 1044 ]
[ Item 10 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1989 January 5 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.
On container, "CBS/Bob Drasnin/Beach Bros./1-5-89/24 trk/30 IPS."

[ Box 1140 ]
[ Item 16 ]
Beach Brothers (logs 1-19) -- Sound Recordings . 1989 January 5 . 1/4 in. tape
On container, "CED/1-5-89/R1/LOGS 1-19/DD - Print Takes Only/Beach Bros (Pilot) Van Dike."

Be an arse all you want, but this is the CBS vault we're talking about. Someone could've placed a tape from 1966 in a box and labeled as the current date. 

Regardless, I'm curious if anyone here is versed on "Beach Brothers".

ah yes, the Beach Brothers.. with such hits as "Surfer Lady" ,"The Chill of the Moon", and their more avant-garde album "Frowny Frown"

Same here. Those notes are full of typo errors as it is. Also, the date on the box could refer to a transfer. Where there's lofe, there's hipe.

OK, let's take what we've got - not what we might want it to be - and run with it.


[ Box 1035 ]
[ Item 12 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1989 January 5 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.
On container, "CBS/Beach Bros./1-5-89/24 trk/tape 250/+3 30 IPS."

[ Box 1044 ]
[ Item 11 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1988 December 21 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.
On container, "CBS/Van Dyke Park/Beach Boys/12-21-88/24 trk/30 IPS."

[ Box 1044 ]
[ Item 10 ]
Beach Brothers [Contents Unidentified] -- Sound Recordings . 1989 January 5 . open reel audio tape, 2 in.
On container, "CBS/Bob Drasnin/Beach Bros./1-5-89/24 trk/30 IPS."

[ Box 1140 ]
[ Item 16 ]
Beach Brothers (logs 1-19) -- Sound Recordings . 1989 January 5 . 1/4 in. tape
On container, "CED/1-5-89/R1/LOGS 1-19/DD - Print Takes Only/Beach Bros (Pilot) Van Dike."

Four tapes... seven mentions of "Beach Brothers to one of "Beach Boys". Logically, which one is likely to be the typo ?

As for the mentions of VDP... is it not beyond the realms of possibility that he was asked to score the pilot ?

For all we know the "Van Dike" could be Dick Van Dyke!

You know, that's a good point!

Has anyone asked the writer of "Beach Brothers" what it was all about?
http://cinema.usc.edu/faculty/weber-david.htm

No...but someone asked Alfie.

Very good points AGD... most peculiar of coincidences about the VDP/B.Boys typos tho'.

I just Googled "CBS & 'The Breach Brothers'" and one of the results wasn't the sort of website my girlfriend would like me to visit again.

Maybe anyone with VDP's ear could ask him what the project was, and the nature of his involvement? I know he can be a very amenable chap.

Sorry to add something on such an old topic but I am seriously suggesting going to the History Detectives on this one.... really.

Very good idea! That might be one of the only things that would work. Aren't you supposed to have an unexplained OBJECT to start out with though? Or would the Surf's Up footage be an acceptable basis for them to investigate?

Search function is helpful...those who are more learned than I...  ;)

Reader's Digest version: the trail ran cold and of course, now Oppenheim is no longer with us. Chances are those outtakes are still in his personal archive. Who knows, maybe one day when we're all singing along with Carl & Dennis...

The serendipitous part of the hunt was the discovery of his reel notations which, when translated, proved most illuminating in confirming what was - and wasn't - recorded at that session, and in debunking the then-recent claim that the cameras captured a set-to between Brian & Mike over the lyrics.

The "JE" in that email has to be Jasper who did all the heavy lifting on this. Exciting time.

Just to get this out there, if the tapes are found, I would donate a sizable amount to recovering/transferring them for all to hear, that is if Capitol doesn't get it first.

Sounds like it's close to a lost cause, but I would seriously consider contributing money to put towards a P.I. for this.....

Years ago there was a similar topic/thread (on the Inside Pop tapes), and I posted that I wish(ed) Brian's camp would've employed someone and given them a budget with the intent on finding and obtaining anything and everything related to SMiLE. It's that important; it has historical value. I also wished they would've done it, just because it's SMiLE, arguably Brian's best work, and they would want the stuff in Brian's possession. I still find it a little perplexing and disappointing that somebody in Brian's circle didn't convince Melinda of that.

Is there a problem with trying to work with Oppenheim's estate? I mean, if you said that the reels are most likely in his archive, then somebody should be trying to work through that "lead". I would also donate a considerable sum in the effort to finding and properly preserving and transferring the reels.

I'm repeating what's been said many times: Keep in mind that even if the reels were to be uncovered, the assumption through research and interviews of the past says that the audio tracks were recorded separate from the film stock, and later synched up in the editing and production process. And the possibility is great that the film footage if it were found would not be with the audio tracks from those separate reels, which means the unused film stock would be silent. Of course having any footage at all, silent or not, would be an amazing historical find and well worth any efforts or financing to make it available, but there may be an even greater "what if?" aspect of it where the audio tracks to the film may have been kept separate and lost in the decades since.

If I'm wrong about any of that, please chime in and correct. I pieced that together from the real grunt work and legwork that was done by some of the great researchers like Cam who had actually spoken to some of the behind the scenes people involved with Inside Pop before the production notes surfaced in a college library archive. Cam, Jasper, Dan...they did all of us Smile fans a huge favor in tracking some of this stuff down in the first place...again, major thanks all around!

Thanks Craig but I was only around the edges. As you know Jasper did the large majority of what was discovered and Dan went onsite and was hands on with the actual notes in archive.