Cabinessence sequence done when? (Are verse vocals def. from 68?)

[mike moseley]

yes and Dennis described the song as about a 'funky cat up in the woods with his chick'

VDP said it came out different to what they initially had

they definitely cut it together as we know it in '66 but I think when written it may have been different - as happened with H&V

I've wondered if TTGA may have used up some discarded bits of CE - I think it and the chorus of CE are walz-time..?

Now, don't forget that Mike Vosse interview, where he describes his impressions of the new Cabinessence vs. what he knew it as in 1966.

[maggie]

yes and Dennis described the song as about a 'funky cat up in the woods with his chick'

The verses in the released version are still about a "funky cat up in the woods with his chick." It's a very sensual lyric (and performance by Carl): "nestle in a kiss below there..."

[Don Malcolm]

Excellent point, Maggie. And the "Home on the Range" part is only one slice of the song. The impressionistic tone-poem aspect of "Cabinessence," where such completely separate segments snap together like a suite, is what makes it (and, related approach-wise but different in detailed deployment, "Surf's Up," "Heroes and Villains," "Wind Chimes") such a densely packed collision of musical elements.

What I've never seen discussed by those who were there was the compositional sequence of the musical pieces that form the completed version of "Cabinessence." Dennis' description sounds like it's meant to reference "Home on the Range," and it seems to be a perfectly acceptable description, late sixties hip-speak notwithstanding.

I do not recall Paul Williams or anyone else specifically asking David Anderle which piece of "Cabinessence" came first. We heard a lot about "little fragments" and "feels", etc., etc., in this time--including quotes by Mike Love--but we don't know exactly HOW the track took the shape it did. The session tapes we have seem to indicate that the sections were put into the order that is now the accepted flow of the song by the time it was brought into the studio for the Wrecking Crew to tackle, however.

[Bicyclerider]

By October 3rd the verse/chorus/verse/chorus/fade sequence was in place, however contemporary accounts and later accounts by the Vosse Posse indicate that Home on the Range may have been a separate song from "Who Ran the Iron Horse" earlier and they were combined. 

As far as the vocals we do know that the lead Carl verse vocal and the Dennis truck driving man vocals were recorded in 1968 for 20/20 - see Craig's sessionography for Smile Sessions.  Nov 20th I believe?  If there were vocals recorded in 1966, they most likely would have ended up on an acetate or tape, as there are multiple mixes of the verse with backing vocals ("doing doing doing"), the chorus Who Ran, and the fade with and without the Mike lead vocal and backing vocals.  Plus edits of the sections.  Surely if a lead had been recorded it would appear on one of these edits/mixes.  So just like there is no verse vocal on Worms but chorus vocals and fade vocals appear complete, the same goes for Cabinessence.  That's what's so frustrating about Smile - it wouldn't have taken much work to complete those songs in 1966, two vocal sessions, but Brian got distracted with Heroes and then Vegetables in the search for a single to follow GV.

The lyrics Holmes used were from lyric sheets provided to him by Van Dyke, many before the songs had been recorded, which explains the "telephone/recording" lyrics never appearing although there may have been another section as I mentioned above recorded Oct 11th to fit those lyrics.  The tape's missing.  Wouldn't that be something if that tape were found with a Brian guide vocal of those lyrics?

[leetwall97]

I think the Telephone Reconnect lyrics go over the 1st chorus. And I assume that and Truck Drivin' Man were meant as lead vocals for the chorus'. Look at when the lyrics start:

"Who Ran the Iron Horse?
Truck Drivin' Man, do what you can."

You get to hear what they're saying in the background first, then Dennis comes in with the raps.

Btw, I'd imagine Cabin Essence was vocally completed in '66. More than enough long-hours sessions spent on it.

I'd love to hear those '66 acetates where it specifically goes: Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Tag
Everything from '66 I've heard goes: Verse-Chorus-Tag-Verse-Chorus
Most people who heard it in '66 remember the tag in the middle too. (I say most people, but I think only Vosse did say that)

I'd imagine the 20/20 version is still the final order, but maybe not. I don't think that really matters as much. There's bigger questions to ask.
Vosse and Anderle both claimed that Cabin Essence connected with Do You Like Worms (Iron Horse and Bicycle Rider). Sure, the song might be: Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Tag, but would those long pauses be interrupted by anything? It's like Rio Grande. You could slam the Elements in the middle of this.

[Don Malcolm]

I'd imagine the 20/20 version is still the final order, but maybe not. I don't think that really matters as much. There's bigger questions to ask.
Vosse and Anderle both claimed that Cabin Essence connected with Do You Like Worms (Iron Horse and Bicycle Rider). Sure, the song might be: Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Tag, but would those long pauses be interrupted by anything? It's like Rio Grande. You could slam the Elements in the middle of this.

It's entirely possible that it was like that at some point--assuming we could be sure that "the Elements" were underway in October 1966, which really doesn't seem to be the case. More likely Brian created these "feels" or "extended riff sequences" and started a jig-saw process with them. But the fact that Van was writing lyrics to superimposed over the "chants" ("Horse," "Worms") indicates that they were trying to create densely-packed songs, which was were Brian was immediately coming from with "Good Vibrations."

So I'm leery of the idea that in October-December he was writing long-form. I think that came about with "Heroes & Villains," and that's where things took a trip down the looking glass.

[Jeff]

Btw, I'd imagine Cabin Essence was vocally completed in '66. More than enough long-hours sessions spent on it.

Why would you say that when the Smile Sessions sessionography states otherwise?

[leetwall97]

Btw, I'd imagine Cabin Essence was vocally completed in '66. More than enough long-hours sessions spent on it.

Why would you say that when the Smile Sessions sessionography states otherwise?

They held 4 vocal sessions for Cabin Essence. October 11th & 12th. December 6th and 17th. Those sessions were hours long. They got the insane background vocals done, why stop then when all you have to do is double track a fairly simple lead vocal? It just doesn't make since.

[Bicyclerider]

Lots of sessions doesn't mean a lead vocal was recorded - Brian was a perfectionist and he could have been, in fact apparently was, recording and rerecording and overdubbing backing vocals and the tag lead vocal.  No evidence whatsoever of the verse lead being recorded.  There's another reason why the lead might not have been recorded - Dec 6 was the blow up over the lyrics of the tag with Mr. Love casting shade on Van Dyke.  There's much about the Smile project that doesn't make sense - the Worms verse vocals not being recorded, Heroes constantly changing its structure and swapping out sections and borrowing sections from other songs, Surfs Up remaining unfinished, not putting the pieces of the Smile April Vegetables together as everything necessary to complete the song had been recorded, etc. 

[leetwall97]

Lots of sessions doesn't mean a lead vocal was recorded - Brian was a perfectionist and he could have been, in fact apparently was, recording and rerecording and overdubbing backing vocals and the tag lead vocal.  No evidence whatsoever of the verse lead being recorded.  

Yeah thats true. I just find it hard to buy. The way I see it; We're missing it, that's why it exists. You have to work with that kind of logic because we do not contain one finished piece of Smile material. Not one finalized, fully recorded and produced song has survived. We shouldn't assume Brian never finished anything because of that. That's too superficial.

There's another reason why the lead might not have been recorded - Dec 6 was the blow up over the lyrics of the tag with Mr. Love casting shade on Van Dyke.  

Probably not. In the end, Mike Love sang the vocal. So that should prove to us that resistance wasn't an issue (as long as Van Dyke was there for support/defense). It's interesting you mention the lead Grand Coolie vocals were recorded on the 6th... By then the Iron Horse vocals were recorded. So then what was left to sing on the 17th? It couldn't've taken them over 3 hours for the Doings in the verses...

There's much about the Smile project that doesn't make sense - the Worms verse vocals not being recorded, Heroes constantly changing its structure and swapping out sections and borrowing sections from other songs, Surfs Up remaining unfinished, not putting the pieces of the Smile April Vegetables together as everything necessary to complete the song had been recorded, etc.  

On the surface it might not make sense. But thoughtful observation helps. Heroes changing its structure is Brian reworking it. Heroes swapping out sections is Brian reinventing it. Heroes borrowing sections from other songs is a revelation to the bigger suite encompassing those songs and their sections. There's two sides to every Smile.
 
Surf's Up basically was finished (vocally I'm not so sure). The April version of Vegetables was put together. It was mixed down by Brian on April 14th. Why it wasn't released, I have no clue.

[CenturyDeprived]

Probably not. In the end, Mike Love sang the vocal. So that should prove to us that resistance wasn't an issue (as long as Van Dyke was there for support/defense).
 

Just because Mike sang that vocal part (and very well, I might add), that does not at all translate to your statement "that should prove to us that resistance wasn't an issue"... we have NO idea how much the repeated resistance could have broken down Brian's confidence and mental well-being, and could very well have had untold consequences when coupled with all the other crap he was bogged down with at the time.

It's not an absurd thought that a highly sensitive person under immense pressure, entangled in a dysfunctional family relationship could lose their footing on a song or project in part due to resistance. It could have caused Brian to procrastinate more on finishing that song - at minimum. Van Dyke himself said that he left the project at the time when he saw how DEEPLY entangled with decades-old previous family drama/guilt trips the band dynamic was at that point, right in the aftermath of being harangued by Mike over the lyrics to this very song.

Sorry for the rant, but it gets tiring hearing people trying to minimize what the potential for a cumulative effect of a bandmate's bad attitude and probable lack of tact - even if said bandmate eventually does his job - could have on a fragile person under pressure. I say that to you respectfully. This wasn't some ineffectual instance of a 1966 Al Jardine toothlessly expressing displeasure. This was Mike, who knew how to push buttons and get what he wanted out of his cousin. And in hindsight, what a dumb, dumb, dumb ego-driven move on Mike's part. The lyrics were great, are widely thought of as awesome, and were in no need of questioning.  

History is not on Mike's side. And he's just as mistaken and tactless about it in present day, mocking the Summer's Gone lyrics in a shockingly tasteless manner. Continually giving the screwjob to Brian's best material for the band (or doing things that put said material at great risk). Continually proving Jack Rieley's quote correct. Ugh. </rant>

But damn, I do wish Van had stuck up against Mike. I wonder what would have happened if they attempted to solve the manner with fisticuffs?

[Bicyclerider]

April version of Vegetables was never put together at least not by Brian.  He mixed some sections of the song but no finished song was edited and mixed out of all the sections recorded.  Please post the finished April version if you have access to something the rest of us don't, including Alan and Mark.

"We're missing it that's why it exists" - is it only me that finds this makes no sense?  Missing something doesn't mean it exists, it is' evidence to the contrary.  You have no evidence that a vocal was recorded for the verse of Cabinessence, the evidence (acetates, tapes, partial mixes) is to the contrary.  just because you want something to exist or even that you believe it should exist doesn't make it so.

The blow up over the lyrics is interesting because apparently the tag vocal was recorded BEFORE Dec 6th - C-man posted about this previously.  Because he sang it (Mike had precious few leads on the Smile material so it was unlikely he would refuse, but that doesn't mean he liked the lyrics) doesn't mean he couldn't later question the lyrics when they were working on the song.  After the blow up Van left, Brian had doubts about the lyrics and since the verse lyrics hadn't been recorded and the song was in question, Brian put it aside for later and focused on other things (the single).

[soniclovenoize]

Surf's Up basically was finished (vocally I'm not so sure). The April version of Vegetables was put together. It was mixed down by Brian on April 14th. Why it wasn't released, I have no clue.

Well, the backing track for the second half of Surf's Up was never even recorded, so it couldn't have been "basically finished". 

Are you taking about the "April Assembly" of Vege-Tables?  I think that was just a test edit of the pieces recorded thus far.  It lacked some of the essential pieces like the Vocal Insert, Ballad Insert and the Fade, and the long gaps between the included sections seemed to indicate they were hastily performed for review purposes.  It is very interesting, indicative of Brian's intended structure for at least the first half of the song, but I don't think it was final. 

[leetwall97]

Well, the backing track for the second half of Surf's Up was never even recorded, so it couldn't have been "basically finished".  

No, it was.

Are you taking about the "April Assembly" of Vege-Tables?  I think that was just a test edit of the pieces recorded thus far.  It lacked some of the essential pieces like the Vocal Insert, Ballad Insert and the Fade, and the long gaps between the included sections seemed to indicate they were hastily performed for review purposes.  It is very interesting, indicative of Brian's intended structure for at least the first half of the song, but I don't think it was final.  

Hopefully that wasn't done on the 14th. I'd like to think Brian did mix it down. Why not finish the A side when you already have the B side?

The biggest question of Vega-Tables is how the 2nd half went. I can't even figure out where the 2nd chorus goes. Evidence points to somewhere after the Ballad Insert. And once we figure that out, where does the "Fade" into all of this?

[leetwall97]

April version of Vegetables was never put together at least not by Brian.  He mixed some sections of the song but no finished song was edited and mixed out of all the sections recorded.  Please post the finished April version if you have access to something the rest of us don't, including Alan and Mark.

I probably was being too assertive by assuming April Vega was mixed. But like everything else with Smile, I assume it happened until proven not. Brian held lots of Mixing sessions at the end, and recorded a lot of Vocal overdubs himself.

Since Brian wasn't gonna release H&V, he had to ask Van Dyke to come back and finish the new Single for Smile; Vega-Tables. If Van Dyke came back, he wouldn't leave until it was finished. Van wouldn't waste his time like that.

"We're missing it that's why it exists" - is it only me that finds this makes no sense?  Missing something doesn't mean it exists, it is' evidence to the contrary.  You have no evidence that a vocal was recorded for the verse of Cabinessence, the evidence (acetates, tapes, partial mixes) is to the contrary.  just because you want something to exist or even that you believe it should exist doesn't make it so.

It was a joke.

Acetates, tapes, partial mixes? I would agree with what you're saying but we don't have all of them. And the ones we have are mostly copies of incomplete sections/songs.

After the blow up Van left, Brian had doubts about the lyrics and since the verse lyrics hadn't been recorded and the song was in question, Brian put it aside for later and focused on other things (the single).

Did Van leave then? I know he left twice (once after both singles we're "complete"). Double check that, just in case. Ask him on Twitter.

Brian never said he had doubts about the lyrics. Brian said he didn't have lyrics for some parts.

Interesting theory... If that was the case and I was there, I would've told Brian:
"You recorded those insane background parts, why not polish them off with the leads. Mike doesn't even sing those parts so don't invite him."

[soniclovenoize]

Well, the backing track for the second half of Surf's Up was never even recorded, so it couldn't have been "basically finished". 

No, it was.

 

When was it done?  What does it sound like?  Why wasn't it featured on the album Surf's Up?

[Bicyclerider]

"Like everything else with Smile, I assume it happened until proven not."

I assume this was a joke also?  This runs counter to every rule of logic and even common sense.  Following that through then Brian must have mixed and completed the album and hid the tape under his mattress during his stay in bed years.

According to Anderle there was conflict between Brian and Van Dyke over the lyrics, and not over the lack of them but over whether they were too sophisticated for the music.  So yes Brian had doubts about the lyrics.

[mike moseley]

its impossible to prove that something wasn't done (unless there is tangible evidence of a claim i.e. I can prove the Empire State building was not blown up in WW2)

this is universally true but especially true with something as fuzzy as session logs etc

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

Leetwall, I love your optimism.

[leetwall97]

Well, the backing track for the second half of Surf's Up was never even recorded, so it couldn't have been "basically finished".  

No, it was.

 
When was it done?  What does it sound like?  Why wasn't it featured on the album Surf's Up?

What we regard as the 2nd movement of Surf's Up (everything from "Dove nest towers" to "a Children's song") was recorded on January 23rd, 1967. It was overdubbed onto Brian's piano track. It included mainly just strings (and maybe some percussion?)(originally there were harps and horns but they were not used). That session lasted several hours (I can't remember if they took a break after). But by the end of the night, they were recording the 3rd Movement (aka the ending) of Surf's Up. This recording was labeled as Part 2. Hal was drumming, there were A LOT of saxophones (just one or two trumpets), Stand up bass and guitar.

To get an idea of how the 2nd movement sounded, listen the BWPS version. To get an idea of how the 3rd movement sounded, listen to this live recording from 1971:
https://youtu.be/A4y4nU41HsM?t=4m20s

In the end the tape was lost/destroyed. I remember Mark or Allen explaining why we don't have the master tapes to Good Vibes. Something about them being left behind at the studio and being cleaned out. This happened at the end of 60s when the Boys capital contract expired. That's one theory why the tapes were gone by 1971.

Hey lovenoize, you never told me if you could isolate vocals on the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful!

Leetwall, I love your optimism.

We're gonna be great friends.

[soniclovenoize]

What we regard as the 2nd movement of Surf's Up (everything from "Dove nest towers" to "a Children's song") was recorded on January 23rd, 1967. It was overdubbed onto Brian's piano track. It included mainly just strings (and maybe some percussion?)(originally there were harps and horns but they were not used). That session lasted several hours (I can't remember if they took a break after). But by the end of the night, they were recording the 3rd Movement (aka the ending) of Surf's Up. This recording was labeled as Part 2. Hal was drumming, there were A LOT of saxophones (just one or two trumpets), Stand up bass and guitar.

How do you know it was the Second Movement?  It's not stated as that in the sessionogrophy. 

Also the end of the day sessions was logged as for "sweetening" of Surf's Up PART ONE in the sessionogrophy, not a third movement. 

Sorry, I was unable to isolate the vocals. 

[leetwall97]

How do you know it was the Second Movement?  It's not stated as that in the sessionogrophy. 

Also the end of the day sessions was logged as for "sweetening" of Surf's Up PART ONE in the sessionogrophy, not a third movement. 

Sorry, I was unable to isolate the vocals. 

The sweetening session was the 2nd movement (it was listed as an overdub for the December 16th recording (that was Brian's Piano demo)). If you look at the instruments used, they fit the description used for the 2nd movement.

Another recording was made: Part 2. Part 2 included Hal and the saxophones. But it definitley was the 3rd movement since the instruments listed match those heard in the live video.

Just let me know next time.

[Matt Bielewicz]

I get very little time to keep coming back here these days; it's eminently possible I've missed something big. So please excuse me asking dumb 'let's back up a second here...' type questions!

Lee... when and where was there ever a description of what was in part 2 of Surf's Up? Genuine question. I remember Darian saying that Paul Mertens had asked Brian what he could recall about that part, and that Brian had said there were strings. That was supposedly why we got strings (a Mertens arrangement) in the live SMiLE in 2004. But I don't recall anything else ever about what else was supposed to have been in Part 2, much less concrete knowledge that Brian's solo piano recording was overdubbed to create part 2, and, even more specifically, that it was overdubbed with Hal drumming, trumpets and saxophones, and that there were also harps and horns that ended up not being used.

If that's come out lately about the second part of Surf's Up... that's big news. So... what's the source?

If it's just the sessionography, then I think, as sonic l. noize has just said, that those instruments were the sweetening for the first part, not overdubs for the second. But please correct me if I'm wrong. I have been... so, so many times...!

Also, although Brian recorded the solo piano version straight through, and this is what was used for the second movement in the subsequent versions of Surf's Up, my understanding was that this was just because nobody ever found any other kind of backing track for the second part, and that in fact, it's not clear that one was ever recorded. Certainly there was a separate recording made with a full arrangement (Hal, horns, percussion, trumpets etc) for the first part, and so the logical assumption has always been that originally, there were going to be similarly fully arranged recordings of the backing track sections for the other parts of the track, and they were the recordings that were originally going to get vocal overdubs to form the finished track. The impression I got was that the piano recording was just to demonstrate how the whole track went, but that the 'finished' studio track was going to be made up of the more arranged backing track sections with vocal overdubs, as indeed the first section was in the end. But logical as that might seem, SMiLE is frequently extremely ILLOGICAL, so... basically, assume nothing that isn't nailed down. Maybe Brian *was* going to do that... but didn't get round to it. Or maybe he preferred the piano track after he did that, and WAS going to overdub that version. Or maybe he had several plans which kept changing, and in the end, he got around to doing none of them, which just left the part 1 backing and the complete double-tracked solo piano version. All of those events would have left us with the tape library in the state it's in now.

Or... maybe Brian did make those more developed backing track sections back in the day, and lost or destroyed the tapes... or they were stolen. But certainly it seems like if they ever did exist, they were gone by the time of the Surf's Up album, and when Carl tried to pull SMiLE together in the early 70s... because they used Brian's solo piano recording as the basis for all the bits of the song that weren't the first part up to 'are you sleeping, Brother John'. And that's all we have today, too.

All of these things are possible, and I don't think it's possible to say which of them did or didn't happen.

Unless... new info or tapes have come to light?

[mike moseley]

My understanding has always been that they had a go at more Surf's Up but didn't get anything useable - I might be mis-remembering.  Although I think Lee makes some very interesting posts I think he is extrapolating quite a bit.

[HeyJude]

Wait, so back to "Cabin Essence"; do we really still not know definitively whether Carl's lead is from the "Smile" sessions or the "20/20" sessions?

While Carl's voice didn't drastically change in those two years, his lead on the track always sounded more "1968-ish" to me than 1966.