Weakest Song On Pet Sounds/Smile?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

For those of you who do love Steel Guitar and "Diamond Head", check out Bossaroo's Myspace page. He is one talented guy!!!!!!

http://www.myspace.com/rscottmurray

[bossaroo]

thanks SRH. that page is pretty old... could really use an update!

Diamond Head was indeed a spontaneous collaboration, based around Vescovo's steel guitar. don't think Brian suggested chord or key changes, or anything more than "play something Hawaiian". I'd love to hear what Brian remembers about it, he's clearly fond of the song... Lyle and Jim too.

I really wish we had more in the way of outtakes from 'Friends'

[rab2591]

thanks SRH. that page is pretty old... could really use an update!

Diamond Head was indeed a spontaneous collaboration, based around Vescovo's steel guitar. don't think Brian suggested chord or key changes, or anything more than "play something Hawaiian". I'd love to hear what Brian remembers about it, he's clearly fond of the song... Lyle and Jim too.

I really wish we had more in the way of outtakes from 'Friends'

amen.

[runnersdialzero]

You seem to take issue with my 'factual statement' that four people are credited with writing the song, not solely Al Vescovo.

No, I take issue with your saying, "I don't trust this guy, I don't know him, I just choose to blindly believe Brian wrote everything ever."

I have no idea Al Vescovo's original words on the matter, but if he outright said, "I wrote it," I'm sure he meant the basis of it, not the entirety of it. I write a song - my band embellishes upon it in a way I never could have, but I still wrote the basis of it. Some would choose to give the original writer the sole credit, others would give the whole band credit.

and that someone saying Al Vescovo wrote the song doesn't make it so.  In legal tems it's called heresay.

o yeah. I see Dennis Wilson getting the sole credit for "Never Learn Not To Love", I think Charles Manson claiming to have written it is total hearsay.

Yeah, jackass. Not jumping the thread, it's jumping back your  crap.

And what does "Jumping back your crap" mean in legal terms?

And,as typical with A holes like you, you are offended when people respond to statements like "Give it a rest bub", "kind of dumb". You get personal and then get all crazy when it's thrown back at ya.

I got personal? Naw.

Yes, songwriters have been historically listed in alphabetically order  - Love/Wilson;

Funny, because every single instance I've seen of this, it's listed as "Written by Brian Wilson/Mike Love". Not alphabetical. Brian is listed first because he wrote the basis of the song, Mike helped. How about the Smile material? "Written by Brian Wilson/Van Dyke Parks". Again, not alphabetical. "Written by Brian Wilson/Tony Asher". "Friends" lists Al Jardine last in the credits, not first. Is it a matter of always listing Brian first? No. "Take A Load Off Your Feet" lists Al before Brian because it was mostly Al's song.

Seeing a pattern, here? Nothing is alphabetical among Beach Boys credits. Ever. Seemingly, the person listed first always wrote the basis of the song or the majority of the song, the names that follow helped. Thus, given Al's statement that he wrote the basis of the song and him being listed first, what conclusion can we draw from that?

That was my point - you failed to pick up on my sarcasm.

Based on Beach Boys credits likely almost always being listed as such, wouldn't this mean Al Vescovo likely wrote the basis or the majority of "Diamond Head", with the other four credited people writing less or just assisting? Wouldn't Al Vescovo claiming to have written the majority of it back that up?

Not everyone is a lying con artist like Carole Kaye. Carole has been CAUGHT on her lies multiple times, where as I've never once heard anyone calling out this Al Vescovo for claiming songwriting credits when he didn't do it.

If Brian Wilson said he wrote something, wouldn't you believe him until proven otherwise? How is Al Vescovo any different? You're the one blindly assuming Brian wrote everything, ignoring facts and statements contrary to the matter.

And what's consistently "kinda dumb" are your posts on this board.  

OUCH.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Yes, songwriters have been historically listed in alphabetically order  - Love/Wilson;

Funny, because every single instance I've seen of this, it's listed as "Written by Brian Wilson/Mike Love". Not alphabetical. Brian is listed first because he wrote the basis of the song, Mike helped. How about the Smile material? "Written by Brian Wilson/Van Dyke Parks". Again, not alphabetical. "Written by Brian Wilson/Tony Asher". "Friends" lists Al Jardine last in the credits, not first. Is it a matter of always listing Brian first? No. "Take A Load Off Your Feet" lists Al before Brian because it was mostly Al's song.

I just have a problem with people talking out their ass and ignoring facts.  Like you.

For example, You can't even bother to go to BMI and get the real, legal info.

DO IT AGAIN (Legal Title)
   BMI Work #309166

Songwriter/Composer    Current Affiliation    CAE/IPI #
LOVE MIKE E                    BMI                            18590870
WILSON BRIAN                  BMI                            33029517
 
Publishers
IRVING MUSIC    BMI    355698807

SURF S UP (Legal Title) - http://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&keyid=1434517&ShowNbr=0&ShowSeqNbr=0&querytype=WorkID
   BMI Work #1434517

Songwriter/Composer    Current Affiliation    CAE/IPI #
PARKS VAN DYKE            ASCAP                    23519307
WILSON BRIAN                    BMI                        33029517


GOD ONLY KNOWS (Legal Title)
   BMI Work #484174

Alternate Titles:
DIEU SEUL SAIT
DIO SOLO SA

Songwriter/Composer    Current Affiliation    CAE/IPI #
ASHER TONY                     BMI                           1472335
WILSON BRIAN DOUGLAS     BMI                       33029811
 
Publishers
IRVING MUSIC    BMI    355698807
 
I don't know where you are getting your "Wilson.Love" or "Wilson/Parks" listings.  Booze or drugs can do some crazy things to a mind.
Brian has traditionally had his name listed last - ala: alphabetically.

[Ebb and Flow]

 
I don't know where you are getting your "Wilson.Love" or "Wilson/Parks" listings.  Booze or drugs can do some crazy things to a mind.
Brian has traditionally had his name listed last - ala: alphabetically.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

 
I don't know where you are getting your "Wilson.Love" or "Wilson/Parks" listings.  Booze or drugs can do some crazy things to a mind.
Brian has traditionally had his name listed last - ala: alphabetically.

Ohhh.  Officially wrong but I am wrong. Dang. I hate when that happens.  Gotta lay off those shrooms .

[rab2591]

Christ almighty, honestly Diamond Head doesn't even sound like a Brian Wilson tune. Brian's instrumentals are full of layers and/or harmonies. Diamond Head is beautiful, but not at the calibre of Brian Wilson.

To me, i'd say Brian had no problem with Al writing the gist of this tune. But I'm drunk, so what do I know?

[Ron]

My opinion?  Brian Wilson has a long history of not really giving a sh*t about business matters like who gets paid for a song. 

Simple as that. 

[Julia]

Weakest on Pet Sounds: Pet Sounds. It's not Sloop John B that doesn't belong, it's this. I dont dislike it, it's still a solid A, A- song but it's more like a traditionally "beach-y" almost Jimmy Buffet esque song, not really befitting the vibe of the rest of the tracks. People are gonna jump down my throat and say of course it is, because it's there, but if you tossed a bunch of Brian's songs from late '65 to summer '66 in a pile to an uninformed person and said "the greatest and arguably first concept album in rock history is among these songs--pick 13" I doubt PS would get chosen very often. Probably you'd have the album we got plus GV or LGIOK in its place.

Weakest on SMiLE: If we're including unfinished and/or speculative fragments, I say the so-called Barnyard suite. The vague collage of Barnyard, IIGS, IWBA/FN(WS). I think there's a reason this song was never finished in particular, despite the pieces all being right there. Like, yeah it kinda works but nobody would ever call it a highlight. If we're talking "on the Dec tracklist and we absolutely know what it is" I say OMP--which is related to the same concept and by Vosse's account originally part of it. Really, this whole pastoral farm life thing on SMiLE is by far its weakest link.

[BJL]

Weakest on Pet Sounds: Pet Sounds. It's not Sloop John B that doesn't belong, it's this. I dont dislike it, it's still a solid A, A- song but it's more like a traditionally "beach-y" almost Jimmy Buffet esque song, not really befitting the vibe of the rest of the tracks. People are gonna jump down my throat and say of course it is, because it's there, but if you tossed a bunch of Brian's songs from late '65 to summer '66 in a pile to an uninformed person and said "the greatest and arguably first concept album in rock history is among these songs--pick 13" I doubt PS would get chosen very often. Probably you'd have the album we got plus GV or LGIOK in its place.

Weakest on SMiLE: If we're including unfinished and/or speculative fragments, I say the so-called Barnyard suite. The vague collage of Barnyard, IIGS, IWBA/FN(WS). I think there's a reason this song was never finished in particular, despite the pieces all being right there. Like, yeah it kinda works but nobody would ever call it a highlight. If we're talking "on the Dec tracklist and we absolutely know what it is" I say OMP--which is related to the same concept and by Vosse's account originally part of it. Really, this whole pastoral farm life thing on SMiLE is by far its weakest link.

I think the version of Old Master Painter / Sunshine with the long fade is absolutely sublime. But then, I also think the cantina mix that uses that same long fade is the best version of Heroes. So I guess I just really, really love that minute of music.

Agree with you on the Barnyard suite. Couldn't say it better than you: "yea it kinda works but nobody would ever call it a highlight."

I love Pet Sounds the song, but if I had to jettison something from Pet Sounds it would indeed be the one to go. It would have to be that or I'm Waiting for the Day and I really don't want to lose I'm Waiting for the Day!