1996

[Summer_Days]

It wouldn't surprise me if this has already been discussed here before, but here goes:

I've seen the year of 1996 on various websites as the year the Beach Boys broke up. Obviously, Mike and Bruce would disagree. I went over to AGD's site and checked out the timeline for '96 and September of that year was the last time Brian would appear live on stage with the boys (exactly 35 years to the month since the band started out). Maybe this is why so many sites call 1996 as the final year?

What do you all think?

[Eric Aniversario]

There was never an official break-up, so when the Beach Boys ended is different for each fan.  I wouldn't say 1996 myself because Brian had not been touring very regularly with the band anyway, and some say that they broke up in 1996 because that's the last time they were all together with Carl.  I would say that they broke up when Carl passed away in 1998.  After that, Al performed a couple of shows and then was gone.  I think that many would agree with 1998.  However, I've heard some say that the Beach Boys were over in 1983 when Dennis passed.  I would heartily disagree with that, though.

[Wirestone]

Hmmm. Much of the answer to this question depends on what you think the Beach Boys were.

If you think of them as a creative recording ensemble, they arguably died with Dennis. The group has managed only two albums of original material in the quarter-century since his death. That says something. Even though Dennis wasn't the main songwriter of the group, he was -- as many say -- its spirit.

If you think of the group as a touring troupe, they probably died with Carl. That is, the line of performances that began in the early 60s and expanded and contracted over the decades ended with his passing. Why? Well, when I saw the group in 1997 (Carl was quite ill), the four BBs on stage sang lead on practically every song (Matt Jardine did fill in on some BW standards) and differentiated themselves from the support players.

In the 10 years since then, Mike and Bruce have become cheerleaders for a group of backing musicians who, from the look of setlists, sing lead on a good portion of the show. Al has performed in competing ensembles. So that incarnation of the group is dead.

In terms of Brian's involvement, it's much harder to say. He did intend, it seems, to make a BBs album in the mid-90s. He worked some with Mike. He patched things up with Carl. He recorded with Don Was and the band on some tracks in the studio. He told Andy Paley he wanted the group to perform the songs. But after that project morphed into Stars and Stripes, Brian went along for the short term and then politely went his own way.

They key point here is, sadly, that none of that material came out. Stars and Stripes scarcely counts.

If you look to the band and wonder when the last time Brian was fully involved, in terms of writing and producing released material, in terms of charting the band's course, it was in the "Love You" period. And even then ... well ... Point is, you could say the group flamed out in the late 70s. Or the 80s. Or the 90s.

Or hey, maybe they essentially ended after Brian handed over the reigns of the group in the late 60s. Who knows.

[Rocker]

I think that many would agree with 1998. 

Brian himself does (see Larry King-interview)

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

All the rules changed dramatically when Carl died.  What's left of the Beach Boys, whether it carries the official name or not, is in pieces that can never be put back together the way we see it in our dreams.

[Emdeeh]

I vote for 1998.

[c-man]

Domenic would say December 1964 - when Brian quit touring.   

[tpesky]

See thats hard to buy because of the dominant and innovative material from 1965-1966...no  Good Vibrations!!??

[Chris Brown]

Creatively I would agree with 1983, but at the same time any band with Carl involved deserves to be called the Beach Boys, for better or worse.  After Carl died, though, I think the Beach Boys ceased to exist.  What Mike and Bruce are doing now is NOT the Beach Boys.  No Wilsons = no Beach Boys as far as I'm concerned.

[mikeyj]

Creatively I would agree with 1983, but at the same time any band with Carl involved deserves to be called the Beach Boys, for better or worse.  After Carl died, though, I think the Beach Boys ceased to exist.  What Mike and Bruce are doing now is NOT the Beach Boys.  No Wilsons = no Beach Boys as far as I'm concerned.

Yeh I agree with you there. I mean imagine the Beach Boys without any Wilsons it just wouldn't be the Beach Boys, whereas you could do without Al and Bruce and to a lesser extent Mike (maby not all of them but any one of them anyway) and it would still be a great band, heck even if it was just "The Wilsons" it would still have been great, I reckon probably better But I am biased towards the Wilsons. But then Mike wouldn't have 'F***ed with the formula' and perhaps Brian wouldve brought out SMiLE and then they wouldnt have turned into a travelling jukebox. But yeh I agree with most people in that the band was officially dead and dusted after Carl died, and although the group still turned out some okay material after Denny died it still wasn't the same without him, but then again it wouldn't have been the same if he hadn't died because he was so bruised and battered by that stage.

[c-man]

See thats hard to buy because of the dominant and innovative material from 1965-1966...no  Good Vibrations!!??

This school of thought holds that between Bri's meltdown at Christmastime '64 and the non-release of "SMiLE", there really was no "Beach Boys"...rather, the genius Brian Wilson and his trained voices...

[the captain]

The question of when the Beach Boys stopped existing--'83, -96 or '98--is moot. Because they exist now, as a matter of fact. They are a legal entity making money and playing shows.
 
The real question is when they stopped mattering. That can be divided into 1) mattering sales-wise, 2) mattering artistically and 3) mattering as a great live show.

There are still different answers to each of those question, of course. But I'd say they stopped mattering sales-wise, on the whole, after 15BO (greatest hits packages and Kokomo notwithstanding). They stopped mattering artistically as a band after Holland, with moments of better work here and there afterward, and they stopped mattering as a great live show after Carl's death at the latest, but arguably sooner. Because I lose interest in their live shows after the very late 70s or early 80s, I'll leave that to others.

[Beach Boy]

For me it's 1980, the last year where the Beach Boys are working as a band. In 1981 they stopped recording new material,  played just the hits, used non Beach Boys for the falsetto parts onstage and Carl left the band. When he came back in 1982 Brian and Dennis were gone, same for 1983.

[c-man]

For me it's 1980, the last year where the Beach Boys are working as a band. In 1981 they stopped recording new material,  played just the hits, used non Beach Boys for the falsetto parts onstage and Carl left the band. When he came back in 1982 Brian and Dennis were gone, same for 1983.

Brian and/or Dennis continued to periodically perform with the Boys in '82 and '83, but it was to a lesser degree than in 1980. 

[Beach Boy]

For me it's 1980, the last year where the Beach Boys are working as a band. In 1981 they stopped recording new material,  played just the hits, used non Beach Boys for the falsetto parts onstage and Carl left the band. When he came back in 1982 Brian and Dennis were gone, same for 1983.

Brian and/or Dennis continued to periodically perform with the Boys in '82 and '83, but it was to a lesser degree than in 1980. 

That's my point. 

[Jon Stebbins]

Domenic would say December 1964 - when Brian quit touring.   

Yeah but he's forgetting that Brian quit touring in spring '63 too.

[Jon Stebbins]

I think Luther has it right in that they have died in different ways at various stages and in a way they never died. For me they died as an artistic entity that had any hope of being relevant in 1979/1980. It seemed they just ran out of any last traces of coolness at that time and everything that came afterwards was embarrassing. However, I'd agree that they'd already stopped progressing artistically in 1973, other than POB which was a step forward. POB is why I held out hope until 1979, but KTSA was the last straw for me. But that was me...and there were a large chunk of fans that actually hung in there, and some new ones that came on board during the tennis shorts years. A good many fans think of the Full House, Home Improvement, Kokomo, Baywatch years as Golden days for the BB's with Carl still out there with the band and even Brian on occasion. But i just cringed every time i saw them during those years. I was astonished and horrified to see Dave Marks re-appear(not really understanding yet that they were his band too), along with the pony-tails, cheerleaders, bad fashion sense and cheesy presentation. But I'd had the perspective of owning a copy of the Surfin' USA LP the year it came out, which ingrains a sense of "nothing will ever top the excitement of that moment" regarding the BB's. They were a cultural phenomenon in '63 to '65, and in so many ways that was the peak they never reached again. But my position has evolved. As long as Brian and Mike and Al and Dave and Bruce are around there is still Beach Boys. I've had the pleasure of being around them when they're together and they still interact like a club that none of us can join. Its the Hawthorne neighborhood guys, or the Calif. garage band that made it. We have no clue because we're not part of their little club. Its much less of a club without Dennis and Carl, but its still alive. The Beach boys won't be entirely dead until there is just one of them left, and then it will be the Beach Boy. And when that one goes it will be a sad, sad day because they were something really special. I say enjoy any last traces of them if you can, while you can.

[tpesky]

I agree with 1980, that was the last gasp of the Beach Boys as a rock band. That was the last time they really rocked on stage as a group and were a relevant rock group. There were not many sidemen and basically the core guys handling all the vocals including falsetto. After that, they could be classified as an oldies band, a very very good oldies band at times and a not so good oldies band at others,  but thats what they were, with glimpses of awesomeness at times (see 1988 tour, 1993 tour).  Today, as John mentioned, there are still glimpses or traces of that available, just less so we do have to enjoy being able to see original Beach Boys perform.

[the captain]

I think Luther has it right...

That might be the first time anyone has ever said that on this board. Hooray for me!

and there were a large chunk of fans that actually hung in there, and some new ones that came on board during the tennis shorts years. A good many fans think of the Full House, Home Improvement, Kokomo, Baywatch years as Golden days for the BB's with Carl still out there with the band and even Brian on occasion.

And that is really why I wanted to differentiate. As long as there are still people interested in going out to watch the live performance of (mostly more than 40-year-old) hits and the band performing them has the legal right to be Beach Boys, and there is one or more than one 60s or 70s-era Beach Boys on stage performing them, it's good enough for me to call it legit. It's a band. Not a recording band, and not a band interested in pressing onward with new material or ideas, but a band nonetheless. I don't like it--not at all, in fact, and I have no interest in it whatsoever--but it's legit. My opinion doesn't really mean anything except to me; and plenty of other people like it.

With a board like this, you can really see that there are almost as many "Beach Boys" as there are fans, with each of us creating our own version of what they were, are and should be.

[Mark H.]

I think Luther has it right in that they have died in different ways at various stages and in a way they never died. For me they died as an artistic entity that had any hope of being relevant in 1979/1980. It seemed they just ran out of any last traces of coolness at that time and everything that came afterwards was embarrassing. However, I'd agree that they'd already stopped progressing artistically in 1973, other than POB which was a step forward. POB is why I held out hope until 1979, but KTSA was the last straw for me. But that was me...and there were a large chunk of fans that actually hung in there, and some new ones that came on board during the tennis shorts years. A good many fans think of the Full House, Home Improvement, Kokomo, Baywatch years as Golden days for the BB's with Carl still out there with the band and even Brian on occasion. But i just cringed every time i saw them during those years. I was astonished and horrified to see Dave Marks re-appear(not really understanding yet that they were his band too), along with the pony-tails, cheerleaders, bad fashion sense and cheesy presentation. But I'd had the perspective of owning a copy of the Surfin' USA LP the year it came out, which ingrains a sense of "nothing will ever top the excitement of that moment" regarding the BB's. They were a cultural phenomenon in '63 to '65, and in so many ways that was the peak they never reached again. But my position has evolved. As long as Brian and Mike and Al and Dave and Bruce are around there is still Beach Boys. I've had the pleasure of being around them when they're together and they still interact like a club that none of us can join. Its the Hawthorne neighborhood guys, or the Calif. garage band that made it. We have no clue because we're not part of their little club. Its much less of a club without Dennis and Carl, but its still alive. The Beach boys won't be entirely dead until there is just one of them left, and then it will be the Beach Boy. And when that one goes it will be a sad, sad day because they were something really special. I say enjoy any last traces of them if you can, while you can.

The most insightful post I've read about the BBs in a long time!  Dead-on.

[Summer_Days]

The most insightful post I've read about the BBs in a long time!  Dead-on.

I agree, Mr. Stebbins' post really made me think. But the main reason I asked this question is not so much a philosophical one, but a literal one. I have been kicking around the idea of writing the Beach Boys' bio for their entry over at rateyourmusic.com. That site listed the break-up date as 1996. I had the option of changing that, so before I did, I decided to make this thread here to discuss it.

Still, for me, the end of the Beach Boys being really Beach Boys was, in some ways, in the late '70s, after Love You. The bottom hit in 1978. I think it was in this time that the band stopped actively wanting to be Beach Boys anymore. They just didn't do what most bands would do at that stage and break up, they just continued on.

I do find it interesting though that for a large portion of fans (and for Brian too, apparently), the end of this band is defined by Dennis and Carl. Dennis was the reason the band existed (along with Brian and arguably Mike) and found an identity at first. Dennis supplied the inspiration for Brian's artistic growth to get his foot in the door as it were. Did that sentence make any sense to anyone? 
Carl, meanwhile, would be instrumental in pushing the band on after Brian's retreat. He picked up the flag and ran with it, and the others followed. That's something.
The loss of these two make it harder to still define this band as really the Beach Boys, in many ways.

[Sheriff John Stone]

As long as Brian and Mike and Al and Dave and Bruce are around there is still Beach Boys. I've had the pleasure of being around them when they're together and they still interact like a club that none of us can join. Its the Hawthorne neighborhood guys, or the Calif. garage band that made it. We have no clue because we're not part of their little club. Its much less of a club without Dennis and Carl, but its still alive. The Beach boys won't be entirely dead until there is just one of them left, and then it will be the Beach Boy. And when that one goes it will be a sad, sad day because they were something really special. I say enjoy any last traces of them if you can, while you can.

Yes, my feelings exactly!

None of us know the true feelings and bonds that the guys have for each other in their hearts. Actually, they themselves might be confused at times. But I've always felt, actually held out hope, that someday they could heal the personal and professional wounds. I really believe that, despite all of the hurt and pain, that all it would take is a couple of days together - some laughing, crying, hugging, SINGING - and they might be able to come away with some peace - and music! But, then again, I've been known to be naive....

[pendletone]

Thank you, Mr. Stebbins...! I underline every word you wrote.

The Beach boys won't be entirely dead until there is just one of them left, and then it will be the Beach Boy. And when that one goes it will be a sad, sad day because they were something really special. I say enjoy any last traces of them if you can, while you can.

Don't even wanna think about it... That day is going to come, and it's going to be the horror. I'm so glad I had the opportunity of meeting Brian Wilson, even though that moment lasted for only two minutes. But the memory will remain forever - and that's the only thing that really really matters! And as long as the music's in our hearts... (Yeah, I know it sounds cheesy...)

[Aegir]

Seeing the Mike & Bruce band on Imus performing "Cool Head Warm Heart" and "Make Love Not War" showed me that the Beach Boys are still alive... not the Beach Boys I fell in love with, but the Beach Boys nonetheless.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

IMO the BB had a few 'deaths' and come backs. The first death would be the decision to not finish Smile in 1967. Friends was a bit of a comeback, but I think they became really strong again when they signed with Warner. The second death was after the Holland album. I suppose Endless Summer contributed to this, but they had gone a good year before that of very little action in the studio. When Brian came back they were able to make a couple more good records (Love You and LA Light Album) and some bad ones. POB was from a BB and that's good enough for me. But following Brian's down hill slide in 77, Dennis in 79 and Carl's decision to give up the good fight for proggressive music is when it died again.

But I will say that in my life time, I never thought I'd see anything good from the BBs live. But Brian's solo tours have in a sense been the latest life in anything related to the BB. Although he is not necessarally coming up with great new material, the Pet Sounds and Smile tours were awesome. I haven't seen or heard LOS yet, but I hear its great.