The Definitive Musician Credits Thread...

[mikeyj]

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea (considering their is a "definitive vocal credits thread") that we start up a "The Definitive Musician Credits Thread..." because I get frustrated when I can't figure out who played what and I don't have access or can't find who exactly it was that played drums or bass or whatever on a particular track. So what does everybody think?

[John]

I think it's a great idea. Some of the info may be hard to find, but I think clarifying as much as we can (plus laying to rest that dull canard about the band "never" playing on their records) would be useful, and a great companion to the vocal credits thread.

[mikeyj]

I think it's a great idea. Some of the info may be hard to find, but I think clarifying as much as we can (plus laying to rest that dull canard about the band "never" playing on their records) would be useful, and a great companion to the vocal credits thread.

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. Of course if their is several opinions on who played a certain instrument on a certain track then we could either put "drums - Dennis Wilson or Hal Blaine" or just leave it blank. I know it would be a lot of work and unlike the vocal credits thread you can't just tell by listening as to who is playing an instrument

[c-man]

I think it's a great idea. Some of the info may be hard to find, but I think clarifying as much as we can (plus laying to rest that dull canard about the band "never" playing on their records) would be useful, and a great companion to the vocal credits thread.

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. Of course if their is several opinions on who played a certain instrument on a certain track then we could either put "drums - Dennis Wilson or Hal Blaine" or just leave it blank. I know it would be a lot of work and unlike the vocal credits thread you can't just tell by listening as to who is playing an instrument

Unless, of course, you can tell by listening to the session tapes...which you sometimes can.  Unfortunately session tapes don't circulate for EVERY track...is case anyone is unaware, I've actually started with two of their best albums, which fortunately, plenty of session tapes & AFM sheets do circulate...
www.beachboysarchives.com

[Jon Stebbins]

I think it's a great idea. Some of the info may be hard to find, but I think clarifying as much as we can (plus laying to rest that dull canard about the band "never" playing on their records) would be useful, and a great companion to the vocal credits thread.

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. Of course if their is several opinions on who played a certain instrument on a certain track then we could either put "drums - Dennis Wilson or Hal Blaine" or just leave it blank. I know it would be a lot of work and unlike the vocal credits thread you can't just tell by listening as to who is playing an instrument

Unless, of course, you can tell by listening to the session tapes...which you sometimes can.  Unfortunately session tapes don't circulate for EVERY track...is case anyone is unaware, I've actually started with two of their best albums, which fortunately, plenty of session tapes & AFM sheets do circulate...
www.beachboysarchives.com

I propose that if such a thread was attempted that we put C-Man in charge of the proceedings...he's the man...the C-Man.

[John]

Seconded.

[c-man]

Jon and John...I would be honored.  And I'm hoping we can count on the help of such fine & knowlegable folks as Alan B., Mark L., Josh H., SWD, AGD...

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'll pitch in when i can, but don't think it'll be too often. 

[Jon Stebbins]

I'll pitch in when i can, but don't think it'll be too often. 

Only if someone posts something that is wrong .

[the captain]

This thread ought to be easy: didn't an established and easily defined pre-existing group called the Wrecking Crew record all the instrumental tracks the Beach Boys ever did?

  *

*This combination of emoticons ought to be interpreted as SARCASM ALERT.

[Andrew G. Doe]

This thread ought to be easy: didn't an established and easily defined pre-existing group called the Wrecking Crew record all the instrumental tracks the Beach Boys ever did?

  *

*This combination of emoticons ought to be interpreted as SARCASM ALERT.

Well, there we have it. Job done. Sorted. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'll pitch in when i can, but don't think it'll be too often. 

Only if someone posts something that is wrong .

True. 

[adamghost]

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea (considering their is a "definitive vocal credits thread") that we start up a "The Definitive Musician Credits Thread..." because I get frustrated when I can't figure out who played what and I don't have access or can't find who exactly it was that played drums or bass or whatever on a particular track. So what does everybody think?

This is definitely moving into territory to where angels fear to tread...

Can anyone drag C-Man over here?  His research and listening on sessions is first-rate...he was the first one back in the AOL board days to reveal, for instance, Al J. was the bass player on a lot of BBs hits, which was controversial at the time (I remember Earle Mankey, when I told him this, could scarcely believe it).  A lot of the information he posted at that time I've never seen duplicated elsewhere, even on his webpage.  I know I have some of it saved somewhere, but he'd be a real asset to this thread.

[adamghost]

I think it's a great idea. Some of the info may be hard to find, but I think clarifying as much as we can (plus laying to rest that dull canard about the band "never" playing on their records) would be useful, and a great companion to the vocal credits thread.

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. Of course if their is several opinions on who played a certain instrument on a certain track then we could either put "drums - Dennis Wilson or Hal Blaine" or just leave it blank. I know it would be a lot of work and unlike the vocal credits thread you can't just tell by listening as to who is playing an instrument

Unless, of course, you can tell by listening to the session tapes...which you sometimes can.  Unfortunately session tapes don't circulate for EVERY track...is case anyone is unaware, I've actually started with two of their best albums, which fortunately, plenty of session tapes & AFM sheets do circulate...
www.beachboysarchives.com

Never mind, C-man is already here (note to myself: read then post)!  I wholeheartedly concur that C-Man is "the man" on this topic.

[c-man]

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea (considering their is a "definitive vocal credits thread") that we start up a "The Definitive Musician Credits Thread..." because I get frustrated when I can't figure out who played what and I don't have access or can't find who exactly it was that played drums or bass or whatever on a particular track. So what does everybody think?

This is definitely moving into territory to where angels fear to tread...

Can anyone drag C-Man over here?  His research and listening on sessions is first-rate...he was the first one back in the AOL board days to reveal, for instance, Al J. was the bass player on a lot of BBs hits, which was controversial at the time (I remember Earle Mankey, when I told him this, could scarcely believe it).  A lot of the information he posted at that time I've never seen duplicated elsewhere, even on his webpage.  I know I have some of it saved somewhere, but he'd be a real asset to this thread.

Yeah, the first inkling I got of Al playing bass on a lot of Beach Boys records came in 1990, when the first few albums started coming out on CD...that's when I really started listening intently, trying to see for instance if I could figure out which instruments were on which tracks in the stereo spread on the instrumental songs (recorded on 3-track).  However, the "song" that really got me thinking was, believe it or not, "Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson".  That one includes little snippets of songs from a mock "rehearsal".  Oddly enough, they didn't use their onstage lineup of 2 guitars - bass - drums, but rather piano - guitar - bass - drums.  It didn't seem to me to make sense for THAT to have been recorded by session players, and so the logical assumption was that Brian was playing piano and Carl was on the sole guitar.  I also figured someone must be playing bass live, rather than Brian overdubbing it, and logically it would be Al.  Since I knew that he played bass (upright) in the very early days of the band, as well as Fender bass when he filled in for Brian in '63, I figured it must be him.  And he also played some bass on the "MIU" album, and frequently played it live onstage for one or two songs in the late '70s-early '80s.  I figured for whatever reason Brian decided to play piano on those snippets, while Al played bass.

Another thing that made me think Al played a lot of bass in the studio in those days was the fact that the CD liner notes implied that Al and Dave both played on "Catch A Wave"...the logical conclusion for me was that Al played bass while Brian played piano and Carl & Dave played guitars.   Around the same time, the AFM sheet for "All Dressed Up For School" was published in Beach Boys Australia, and that listed Al as playing "Fender bass".   Then, about three years later, I got ahold of some session tapes, including "Do You Remember", "We'll Run Away", "All Summer Long", and "Memphis Beach" (aka "Carl's Big Chance").  It was pretty obvious from those that Mr. Jardine was the studio bassist.  I felt vindicated!  It was a hard sell to some people, but not as hard a sell as convincing them that Dennis actually played drums on some of the hits and key album tracks past the second album!  I remember people on the old AOL Beach Boys board saying things like "Well...could those have been the DEMOS that Brian later recut with Hal & The Wrecking Crew?".  To which I would say, "Well...they were cut at Western, with Chuck engineering, and they were overdubbed with full group vocals, AND they sound EXACTLY like the masters, down to the tempo, the timbre, the time, the ambience...everything.  After all this, one guy stubbornly refused to believe it, because all of the books stated (or implied) otherwise.  So when Jon's book "The Real Beach Boy" came out, I used the quote from Carl about Dennis playing on a lot more of their records than people realized, and said SEE?  NOW it's in a book...will you believe it NOW?!

 

[Jon Stebbins]

When I interviewed Al last year I complimented him on his bass playing on so many key BB's studio cuts...and he said, "ehhh...it's only four strings." That comment is so perfectly Al.

[Wirestone]

That seems like the attitude of a lot of the BBs toward studio work, too. It doesn't seem like they cared that much about taking credit for playing on their records -- even though they did. Brian, even, never talks about his keyboard or organ playing. Dennis even hired other drummers for his solo. Despite their talents, they never seemed to take the process of studio work as something to be celebrated. They talked about the final results.

[adamghost]

That seems like the attitude of a lot of the BBs toward studio work, too. It doesn't seem like they cared that much about taking credit for playing on their records -- even though they did. Brian, even, never talks about his keyboard or organ playing. Dennis even hired other drummers for his solo. Despite their talents, they never seemed to take the process of studio work as something to be celebrated. They talked about the final results.

Code:

I think a lot of that has to do with a (very admirable) attitude that the playing has to be in service of the song.  I was at Earle Mankey's mastering my greatest hits album last weekend and we actually discussed this briefly; that drum-wise, Earle said both Brian's and Dennis' attitude was "all you need is the snare and the floor tom, played at the same time."  Likewise, it was said by one of them (Bruce?) in the early '70s that the BBs were unique in not being a solo-oriented band.

I had my eyes opened about Al Jardine's playing twice.  Once when I actually did a gig with him and leaned in on his amp to hear what the heck he was playing.  Even though I was bandleader for that gig I wouldn't have picked it out of the mix but when I heard his part, it was "the Beach Boys" -- just a very subtle thing that blended in with the whole.  Likewise, on the 1980 Friday special where they had only three sideman and you could actually hear Bruce, Al and Brian in the mix, I was curious to see what Al was actually playing on "Keepin' The Summer Alive" -- and when Carl soloed, you could hear that it was a rhythm part so locked in with what the clavinet was doing that it was virtually indistinguishable.  Probably not a great guitar player, but a master blender.  And since blend was what the BBs were all about vocally, it makes sense that would color their attitudes towards their instrumental work as well.

[matt-zeus]

drum-wise, Earle said both Brian's and Dennis' attitude was "all you need is the snare and the floor tom, played at the same time." 

Interesting. The drum work on a lot of BB songs is very strange and minimal. People carp on about Moe Tuckers minimal drums but I think Brian was the master of it.