Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

If there are "habitual point missers", "then boy, I said boy, you ain't makin' yourself clear", as Foghorn Leghorn might say.

Ok, I'm done here, for today. Run along and look up some words or something.

[drbeachboy]

If there are "habitual point missers", "then boy, I said boy, you ain't makin' yourself clear", as Foghorn Leghorn might say.

Ok, I'm done here, for today. Run along and look up some words or something.

It was a fucking joke! You know, winky emoticon. Lighten up.

[drbeachboy]

Andrew, did that last exchange ramp it up enough for you?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not... really. But, that part of my past is, well, past.

[drbeachboy]

Not... really. But, that part of my past is, well, past.

[bgas]

Not... really. But, that part of my past is, well, past.

probably best to let sleeping dogs lie

[Nicko1234]

Saying something like "most people would agree that Brian wrote better material than Dennis, in the seventies" is not simply presenting an alternative opinion to mine, it's adding an extra "and everyone thinks you're wrong" subtext, that is flat out rude.

It's a good job that I've never said anything of the sort then isn't it. 

I didn't say that you weren't entitled to an opinion. Just that I disagree that it is a fact about 'Dennis ruling the 1970s' or whichever words it was that you used.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm still wondering if he has the full seven minute version.

No, just the edit on the 'acetate' of TWOTS - the additional three-odd minutes are just flute and guitar noodling. For completeists only.

I don't really see how that would be for "completeists"only if it's originally part of the song.

The simple and straightforward answer to that is - it wasn't.  

Boy, am i confused..

And holy moly can i not believe what just happened with beachboyfr, wow, way to go man.

[acedecade75]

 The greed and egotistical behaivor that this song has caused is amazing!  Why is it so difficult to allow people to enjoy a great piece of music from a great musician who left this world way too soon?

[Cabinessenceking]

The greed and egotistical behaivor that this song has caused is amazing!  Why is it so difficult to allow people to enjoy a great piece of music from a great musician who left this world way too soon?

because greed and egotism

[Andrew G. Doe]

Had I seen the CD and bought it, I would have most certainly shared the track... however, I would have shared it under the radar, for no gain (financial or in kind) and in full, as, I strongly suspect, would most everyone here who found themselves in the same situation. The actions and motives of beachboy_fr are, to be generous about it, questionable.

[Jay]

All I know is, I frequent e-bay a lot more, er, frequently now. 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Hi guys, have I missed anything?

[shelter]

I'm pretty sure that if Brian and Dennis would/could follow this Brian vs. Dennis discussion, they would not appreciate it. So what's the use?

[Quzi]

"Til I Die" is a tad overrated and far from the last great thing Brian ever did. I love it, but it's lacking something or other, partially in the way of vocal melody from a guy whose best skill (among many) was melody. Above all else, it's tiring to hear everyone express the David Leaf-esque "Brian was a genius for two albums but then Mike Love but then he laid in bed for 40 years except the only good thing The Beach Boys did after 1966 'Til I Die' and then Smile 2003." It ain't like that at all and I don't know if I'd even say it's a top tier Brian Wilson song from the 67-74 period.

"Funky Pretty" is better than all but maybe two or three Dennis songs, to me. I love the guy and I love his music, but I feel like there's this group of people who believe Pacific Ocean Blue to be better than every Beach Boys album after '66 because it has a whole lot of instruments on it and is more straight-faced and earnest than, say, "It's OK" or whatever.

There's just this attitude among some of "It's grand! Listen to all those instruments! It's huge! It sounds important! The Beach Boys never sounded this important after Pet Sounds!" when, to me, the actual musical songwriting on Love You beats the pants off of most (definitely not all) of Dennis' album. Like, I know it sounds crazy, but I swear to God there are many music fans out there who will take just about any straight-faced "serious" album (they're always thinking exclusively in terms of albums because they romanticize the idea of "IT'S AN ALBUM, MAN" as important) over something that's a little more unconsciously bizarre and not necessarily always in the best taste but has some really great music and songwriting going on.

I suppose this is why I don't find Pet Sounds to be the only worthwhile Beach Boys experience, why I can really enjoy the more questionable likes of "Hey Little Tomboy" or "Matchpoint Of Our Love", why I roll my eyes whenever I see someone saying Smile is good but "Barnyard" and "Vega-Tables" are trash, why I'm still a Weezer fan, why I think the first Pink Floyd album is by far the best, why I love Andrew W.K., etc. etc. etc. etc. where as all things named have some very violent opposition out there.

Sorry if that sounded condescending, it's not meant to be, just an observation I've made over time that gets me a little frustrated from time to time. It's like you can't convince a lot of people of the merit of a song or album unless it's a) this very intentionally important, serious thing or b) blatant parody. Also sorry for the rant and sorry to compare Denny and Brian. I never voluntarily the two in any way and just enjoy the music, but while everyone else is comparing I figgered I'd throw another opinion in there that probably isn't especially conventional.

Many erections.

[Jason Penick]

Some of you guys would be well served to realize your opinions are just that, and stop trying to pass them off as indisputable fact. Or as they used to say back in the day, "may the baby Jesus shut your mouth and open your mind". Discussing one's opinions of the relative merits of Brian, Dennis, string theory, or Soviet economic policy in the post WWII-era can be interesting, but once the conversation devolves into endless pissing contests, then it quickly become interminable and irksome. Of course this is symptomatic of the internet as a whole, but I would think most of the people here would be smart enough to at least try to avoid that pratfall. And while I'm sure I've been guilty of doing the same thing at times, I'm here to tell you that reading 39 pages of this thread has been a largely disheartening experience, and that this board at large sometimes comes across like the war room in Dr. Strangelove. As a longtime resident but infrequent poster, I feel somewhat qualified to say that this kind of behavior could be a huge turnoff to outsiders who may just have something of interest to share. We've all seen it before when "celebrity guests" stop by, catch a whiff of the sh*t show, and promptly bail. I think all of us need to realize we're fans of the Beach Boys, and that we're but a blip on the pop music radar, and that if we want this board to be what it can be that we should maybe all just cool out a bit and maybe not engage in pointless bickering, oneupsmanship, defacing accounts of former posters and the like. It's all supremely childish. Flame away if you want, but I feel this really needed to be said.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I like Brian songs and Dennis songs, that's all i know.

[Gertie J.]

i like the beach boys songs.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Some of you guys would be well served to realize your opinions are just that, and stop trying to pass them off as indisputable fact.

Though I suspect this is probably aimed at me, huge co-sine.

Yesterday I was incredibly bored after a week of snot lurgy, and felt like protesting against the 'haha youre an idiot' / 'no your jus wrong, doofus' type posts that seem to infect this forum.

If every single post between my initial 'In my opinion Brian couldn't touch Dennis, post til I die' and Runnerdialzero's well thought out counter had never been made, the forum would be a better place. That was just a sea of failure to read and understand, disrespecting of others opinions and classic 'piling in negatively without adding anything to the debate'.

People need to think, "If I disagree with this post, have I got anything more to say, other than 'you're wrong' in a disrespectful manner", because if not, there's no place for you in the Junior High debating club. This is BASIC stuff.

[drbeachboy]

Some of you guys would be well served to realize your opinions are just that, and stop trying to pass them off as indisputable fact.

Though I suspect this is probably aimed at me, huge co-sine.

Yesterday I was incredibly bored after a week of snot lurgy, and felt like protesting against the 'haha youre an idiot' / 'no your jus wrong, doofus' type posts that seem to infect this forum.

If every single post between my initial 'In my opinion Brian couldn't touch Dennis, post til I die' and Runnerdialzero's well thought out counter had never been made, the forum would be a better place. That was just a sea of failure to read and understand, disrespecting of others opinions and classic 'piling in negatively without adding anything to the debate'.

People need to think, "If I disagree with this post, have I got anything more to say, other than 'you're wrong' in a disrespectful manner", because if not, there's no place for you in the Junior High debating club. This is BASIC stuff.

You gave no analysis of Dennis tracks to prove your statement, so why should we? Just because we disagreed with your assessment doesn't mean that you should get all pissed about it. Opinions should hold the same weight; they are neither right or wrong. If you reply to people who disagree with you by insisting your opinion is more correct, then of course it is going to go badly the rest of the way.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

If you reply to people who disagree with you by insisting your opinion is more correct, then of course it is going to go badly the rest of the way.

I agree with this bit.

[Mike's Beard]

[

People need to think, "If I disagree with this post, have I got anything more to say, other than 'you're wrong' in a disrespectful manner", because if not, there's no place for you in the Junior High debating club. This is BASIC stuff.

But reading back over the last few pages of this thread the main gulity party for this type of behavior came from yourself.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

[

People need to think, "If I disagree with this post, have I got anything more to say, other than 'you're wrong' in a disrespectful manner", because if not, there's no place for you in the Junior High debating club. This is BASIC stuff.

But reading back over the last few pages of this thread the main gulity party for this type of behavior came from yourself.

I respectfully disagree, but I'm starting to feel like I'm in a Franz Kafka novel, so I'd probably better just leave it.

It's kind of mindbending...people can basically respond to me in a 'your an idiot' manner, and I'm labelled a troll for not bending over and taking it.

[Nicko1234]

I respectfully disagree, but I'm starting to feel like I'm in a Franz Kafka novel, so I'd probably better just leave it.

It's kind of mindbending...people can basically respond to me in a 'your an idiot' manner, and I'm labelled a troll for not bending over and taking it.

Come now. You know that is not why other people were labeling you as a troll.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Like most/all(?) of us, we enjoy BOTH Brian and Dennis' work. Yeah, let's listen to both of them and have fun! But, this is a rock and roll message board where everything is discussed, and, I don't think this point is controversial or out of line at all. Sacrilicious maybe.... In my opinion, I'm going to agree with BergenWhitesMoustache on this point. I do think post-Til I Die, Dennis's material does surpass Brian's. And, that's not to slight Brian, just to give Dennis the credit that he is due - as a songwriter, arranger, even singer. And, again, that's just my opinion.

Post-1971, I feel that Brian started to recycle a bit, use past ideas, dip into past arrangements. That's not to say he couldn't be creative or try something new. It just didn't happen very often. And, the less said about Brian's post-1971 singing the better. Other than Love You, I think of most of Brian's post-CATP work as disappointing; at times "nice", but overall disappointing.

To say that Dennis wrote just a handful of great songs is ludicrous. You could fill an entire CD, maybe more, with great Dennis Wilson songs. To quote Brian, "Dennis came into his own..." Dennis's songs had a depth that Brian's songs started to lack. And I stress, "started to lack". Dennis's songs were real productions -  the kind that we were expecting from Brian, but never really happened, but don't like to admit. Dennis used instruments the way that Brian used to. When Pacific Ocean Blue came out, I was blown away, and I honestly thought, or wondered, "I wonder if Brian could produce music like this..." Dennis could bring out emotions in his songs, deep emotions, ADULT emotions. Even Dennis's singing, as flawed as his voice was, could effectively communicate feelings that Brian could no longer communicate with his singing.

Even though it's not necessary (or is it?) I want to clarify that the period I am referring to - and agreeing with BergenWhitesMoustache - is the period post-Til I Die thru Dennis's death. Some posters have mentioned specific songs. Well, I've already done that. I've made a Dennis comp starting with "Lady" or "Falling In Love" or whatever the hell it's called, and proceeding with Dennis's Beach Boys stuff 1971-79, and finishing with POB/Bambu. I know we don't LIKE to compare Beach Boys (even though we do it all the time) but try out that comp. I personally think it exceeds Brian Wilson's music during the same time frame.