Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

[MBE]

Its well known, in fact Carl stated it himself...that Carl had to fight really hard to get that much Dennis material on the '93 box set, in fact he felt there should be more than there was.

Fighting who? David Leaf? Or Mike?


Plenty of Dennis songs have been included on Endless Harmony, Hawthorne and Summer Love Songs since Carl's passing...

I don't know but I will say Brad Elliott made a statement that he didn't feel Dennis should have too many songs on any given comp. A bad move considering he did two seventies themed releases and one didn't have Dennis at all.

[Rocker]

Its well known, in fact Carl stated it himself...that Carl had to fight really hard to get that much Dennis material on the '93 box set, in fact he felt there should be more than there was.

Fighting who? David Leaf? Or Mike?


Plenty of Dennis songs have been included on Endless Harmony, Hawthorne and Summer Love Songs since Carl's passing...

I don't know but I will say Brad Elliott made a statement that he didn't feel Dennis should have too many songs on any given comp. A bad move considering he did two seventies themed releases and one didn't have Dennis at all.

After the big commercial and artistic success of the re-realesed P.O.B. I wonder why the Beach Boys/Capitol/whoever didn't follow that line with releasing more of Denny's stuff. Interest even by non fans was obviously there.

BTW did any of the Beach Boys ever comment on the success of the re-release?

[Paulos]

Its well known, in fact Carl stated it himself...that Carl had to fight really hard to get that much Dennis material on the '93 box set, in fact he felt there should be more than there was.

Fighting who? David Leaf? Or Mike?


Plenty of Dennis songs have been included on Endless Harmony, Hawthorne and Summer Love Songs since Carl's passing...

I don't know but I will say Brad Elliott made a statement that he didn't feel Dennis should have too many songs on any given comp. A bad move considering he did two seventies themed releases and one didn't have Dennis at all.

After the big commercial and artistic success of the re-realesed P.O.B. I wonder why the Beach Boys/Capitol/whoever didn't follow that line with releasing more of Denny's stuff. Interest even by non fans was obviously there.

BTW did any of the Beach Boys ever comment on the success of the re-release?

I don't recall any of the Boys saying anything at the time, but don't forget that Brian has never heard POB...

[MBE]

A friend , and per their request I just listened and did not record it. I heard about 60 seconds of it and it was muffled because it was just a phone held up to a speaker. Still I liked what I heard very much. I am kind of glad Mike didn't let it come out on a hits and classic album cuts package. That wouldn't be a good place for it. If MIC has it then it would get the focus it deserves. Not that Mike doesn't have an anti Dennis bias because he does. I don't think it's as venomous as it was years ago, but Mike didn't have art in mind in that case as far as I can tell.

You think Mike has an anti-Dennis bias? I've always kinda thought this. I notice a lot of the time he will talk about how "me, Brian, Al, Bruce, and Carl" did this or that, or if asked a question about Dennis maybe kinda semi-answer but then deflect to some other topic. It seems like he still has a bit of residual dislike (I won't call it hatred) for him from when he was alive. Now this isn't to say Mike is totally wrong in disliking Dennis. Apparently Dennis, especially in the last few years of his life was not the most wonderful person to be around. Not to mention the fact that dude knocked up his daughter. But I still do think it's pretty pathetic that Mike holds a grudge against the man still. You'd think, since he is all about Beach Boys, Inc., that he would like to have something like "Live Again" on The Warmth Of The Sun set if only to get the Boys some more attention for releasing a new track during a time when it looked like we weren't gonna hear much new or unreleased Beach Boys material for a while.

I almost don't know which is worse: him using the "downer" card to reject the song, or him just being biased against great Dennis Wilson work.

Lastly....Mike...the book??? Are we EVER gettin' it?

Yes the book is still coming. It was complete before TSS came out. Right at that point I happily, and unexpectedly, got my first publishing contract and wrote my Elvis Music FAQ book. Writing was done in December, but the editing  has taken up most of my work focus so far this year.  2011-12 saw so much happen with the group and I would hate to tack the activities of TSS and the reunion hastily on. My goal is to have it done by June, propose it to my current publisher, and see what happens.

[MBE]

Brian's off statement on never hearing it must of came on a very bad day for him. He knows and likes the album very much.

[Mikie]

The boot California Feeling jokingly put Mike's brown nosing at the end of Carry Me Home. Been copied so many times since without people knowing it was a joke. The uncut comments were made to Brian on the Brian Love's You LP/

I think there's an echo on this board..........

[Mikie]

"Genius", "Post of the week", "Incredible", "Post of the month"...

...I thought the photo of Boone's Farm was better.  

GF, it always cracks me up. Some people here who say "Genius, "Post of The Week", "Awesome, "Amazing", "OMG".  They sound like school girls. They wouldn't know a good post if it slapped 'em upside the head. Take your posts for instance, GF. A lot of time and effort you put into well thought-out informative posts with meat on them, and sometimes they barely, if at all, get acknowledged. Then along comes a bullshit post (like the one I'm writing now) and watch, somebody will come along and call it "genius". For real!

Reminds me of the time Brian and Mike were in the same room in the mid-70's. Brian said something serious and Mike cracked up. Brian says, "Mike, if we brought a comedian in here, you'd probably cry!"

This is a sh*t post.

Hey, thanks a lot!

  don't say you didn't ask for it...

Would you say that I have the "post of the day"?

Yes. I think I never read a call where someone halfway through writing it stated that it is of bullshit quality.

It's called "self depricating humor". Or irony. Whatever you want it to be. But whatever you call it, it's straight up and I put all my heart into that post.

[MBE]

The boot California Feeling jokingly put Mike's brown nosing at the end of Carry Me Home. Been copied so many times since without people knowing it was a joke. The uncut comments were made to Brian on the Brian Love's You LP/

I think there's an echo on this board..........

Since you didn't have the name of the California Feeling LP, I thought the comment would be helpful even as an echo

[Nicko1234]

Plenty?

Endless Harmony - Barbara and All Alone
Hawthorne CA - A Time to Live In Dreams
Summer Love Songs - Fallin' In Love

4 does not equal plenty!

Endless Harmony only had about 5 genuine rarities (as opposed to live tracks and alternate takes/mixes) so to include 2 Dennis songs was fair enough.

Hawthorne had A Time to Live in Dreams, Be With Me and Forever. When you consider that that comp focused massively on the Capitol years, I don't think people could complain too much about that.

As Summer Love Songs focused solely on the Capitol years, Fallin' in Love was 1 more Dennis song than people would have expected to see. It should have been saved for a rarities album imo anyway.

The box set in 1993 was too Brian-centric which even led to All This is That nearly being omitted. Dennis should have had more songs but there should also have been more songs with writing credits for Carl, Al and Mike.

[pixletwin]

Looking at the ebay track listing... I kind of agree with Mike ( ) about not including it. It wouldn't have fit in at all... I am surprised Feel Flows and Surf's Up even made it onto the final track listing.

[Mikie]

The boot California Feeling jokingly put Mike's brown nosing at the end of Carry Me Home. Been copied so many times since without people knowing it was a joke. The uncut comments were made to Brian on the Brian Love's You LP/

I think there's an echo on this board..........

Since you didn't have the name of the California Feeling LP, I thought the comment would be helpful even as an echo

Well, Hickey posted it above, and I didn't realize it until I responded to Cabinessenceking and then didn't bother to go back and edit. But yeah, the California Feeling LP, released in 1983, courtesy of either Peter or Brad. Later 'released' as a CD boot. That was one of the good ones back then, preceded by cassette tapes of the tracks floating to collectors....

[AndrewHickey]

The box set in 1993 was too Brian-centric which even led to All This is That nearly being omitted. Dennis should have had more songs but there should also have been more songs with writing credits for Carl, Al and Mike.

But what would you drop to give them those credits? What songs would you put in in their place?
I can think of five songs with Carl or Al writing credits that don't have Brian as co-writer that would deserve a place and didn't get one in my view -- It's About Time, Lady Lynda, Feel Flows, Angel Come Home and Where I Belong. And I'm not completely sold on the last two of those, and one of the others has a Dennis co-credit.
Personally, I think the GV box set gets it almost exactly right in terms of tracklisting, given the limitations of space. I'm sure we could all think of an extra disc's worth of songs that 'should' have been included -- but we'd all be thinking of a different disc.
I think the main problem with that box in the released version is that the *liner notes* are too Brian-centric. The others should have got far more credit for their contributions to the records. But as far as the songs go... well, it's not belittling any of the others to say that Brian is one of the two or three finest songwriters of his generation, and they aren't.

[Cabinessenceking]

The boot California Feeling jokingly put Mike's brown nosing at the end of Carry Me Home. Been copied so many times since without people knowing it was a joke. The uncut comments were made to Brian on the Brian Love's You LP/

but he actually says "no fucking sh*t denny" and it is Dennis who answers him. Not doubting your knowledge on this but Mike is certainly adressing and receiving a reply from Dennis, not Brian. Surely??

[Nicko1234]

But what would you drop to give them those credits? What songs would you put in in their place?
I can think of five songs with Carl or Al writing credits that don't have Brian as co-writer that would deserve a place and didn't get one in my view -- It's About Time, Lady Lynda, Feel Flows, Angel Come Home and Where I Belong. And I'm not completely sold on the last two of those, and one of the others has a Dennis co-credit.
Personally, I think the GV box set gets it almost exactly right in terms of tracklisting, given the limitations of space. I'm sure we could all think of an extra disc's worth of songs that 'should' have been included -- but we'd all be thinking of a different disc.
I think the main problem with that box in the released version is that the *liner notes* are too Brian-centric. The others should have got far more credit for their contributions to the records. But as far as the songs go... well, it's not belittling any of the others to say that Brian is one of the two or three finest songwriters of his generation, and they aren't.

I agree about the liner notes. It's ironic that the reports afterwards were that the box set was delayed because some band members were unhappy with them. You couldn't blame them if it was true.

Lady Lynda should have been included because it was a hit as you suggest. That Same Song would have been no big loss.

Where I Belong should have been on there (bizarrely the liner notes praise it despite its non-inclusion). Funky Pretty is gibberish and Fairy Tale Music was a debatable inclusion so either could have been omitted.

I mentioned Mike because some of his co-writes such as All I Wanna Do should certainly have made it (ahead of Our Sweet Love). It could be argued that singles like It's a Beautiful Day, Rock and Roll to the Rescue or Somewhere Near Japan could have been added too.

I would expect the new box set to feature far more Mike co-written songs anyway as some 60s classics like Hawaii and Let Him Run Wild should surely be included this time along with some 70s and 80s tunes and a few rarities.

[Mikie]

The boot California Feeling jokingly put Mike's brown nosing at the end of Carry Me Home. Been copied so many times since without people knowing it was a joke. The uncut comments were made to Brian on the Brian Love's You LP/

but he actually says "no fucking sh*t denny" and it is Dennis who answers him. Not doubting your knowledge on this but Mike is certainly adressing and receiving a reply from Dennis, not Brian. Surely??

No. Mike doesn't say "Denny". It's just Mike and Brian by a piano. Listen to it in its original context. Dennis isn't there.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm almost shocked that a criticism of the '93 Beach Boys box set is that it was too "Brian-centric" in any way...is that really where we are at in 2013? 

[hypehat]

I'm almost shocked that a criticism of the '93 Beach Boys box set is that it was too "Brian-centric" in any way...is that really where we are at in 2013? 

I know, right.... 'This box of songs I, for the most part, already own has far too much evidence that this man is the greatest pop composer America has ever seen, it's outrageous'

[SMiLE Brian]

Agreed, when did it become uncool to say Brian was a genius.

[Don Malcolm]

I'm almost shocked that a criticism of the '93 Beach Boys box set is that it was too "Brian-centric" in any way...is that really where we are at in 2013? 

Darn right, GF, it was way too Brian-centric...where the hell was all that SIP material needed to balance things out? And those unreleased trax from Country Love? And what about the complete, stupendous, history-making "Seasons in the Sun" session tapes, where Mike was heard sayin' to Terry Jacks, "Gosh Darn, Terry, that's a real mofo..." only to have Jacques Brel burst into the studio wielding a baguette sharpened into the form of a deadly weapon, threatening to skewer Jacks for desecrating his original... 

[AndrewHickey]

Lady Lynda should have been included because it was a hit as you suggest. That Same Song would have been no big loss.

Where I Belong should have been on there (bizarrely the liner notes praise it despite its non-inclusion). Funky Pretty is gibberish and Fairy Tale Music was a debatable inclusion so either could have been omitted.

I mentioned Mike because some of his co-writes such as All I Wanna Do should certainly have made it (ahead of Our Sweet Love). It could be argued that singles like It's a Beautiful Day, Rock and Roll to the Rescue or Somewhere Near Japan could have been added too.

Personally, I'd far rather That Same Song, Funky Pretty and the Fairy Tale Music than Lady Lynda or Where I Belong. I can see choosing All I Wanna Do over Our Sweet Love -- I prefer the former to the latter -- but then Carl has even fewer co-writing credits, and it's not like there aren't plenty of Mike credits on the box anyway.

And the singles you mention are pretty horrible, with the exception of Somewhere Near Japan.

No, honestly, I think the tracklisting is pretty much perfect, and it comes out as "Brian-centric" because if you try to pick out the best hundred or so Beach Boys songs, most of them will be by Brian.

[Nicko1234]

No, honestly, I think the tracklisting is pretty much perfect, and it comes out as "Brian-centric" because if you try to pick out the best hundred or so Beach Boys songs, most of them will be by Brian.

That's a fair opinion obviously. I agree that most of the best Beach Boys songs are by Brian absolutely. Of course they are. But the fact that All This is That was almost omitted from the box set speaks volumes for what the compilers felt about the other members of the band and their contributions. I'm sure some people like things like That Same Song but personally I don't think it's in the same ballpark as Where I Belong. A crappy production of an average song.

If the new box set is truly career spanning then I would expect a lot more stuff from the wilderness era as they should try to make this set as different as possible from the last one (while still including the essential songs obviously). That means those 'horrible' singles previously mentioned ought to make an appearance. 

[Jon Stebbins]

From hearing the cover of WIBNTLA, I can certainly say that it's not what I'd call "Dennis's Surf's Up", not a iota.

Not at all a relevant comparison in my book. To me nothing in pop can really compare to the song, melody, lyric and production of Surf's Up...but that's the kind of sh*t Dennis always had to deal with and still does apparently...being compared to Brian who is incomparable. Dennis is his own thing, Brian is something else. WIBNTLA will suffer some ...oh yawn, not as good as Brian type of BS...because it is so anticipated. Its not a big production, and its not a particularly unique arrangement, Dennis' songs like River Song, End of the Show, Love Remember Me and Moonshine are more "production" songs. WIBNTLA is a fine arrangement and production, but in a more modest early 70's way. However, its Dennis' performance that is what makes it great. He sings fantastic, and he wrote a vehicle for his voice that is probably the best one in his canon...it fits his voice like a glove, in the same way Forever or Barbara does...he just sings it beautifully. The emotion, the honesty, and whatever that wondrous/humble/hopeful but sorrowful vibe that Dennis had...this song brings that to the table in the best way. Its just solid, he nailed it, its a crime that it got buried by time. But don't expect a mindblowing production or insane arrangement like Surf's Up. WIBNTLA is far less eclectic...but completely beautiful and human and great in its own way.

[SMiLE Brian]

The "wilderness years" are called that for a reason, the BBs weren't very good at that point. Career spanning doesn't mean the compilers are forced to put too much inferior material from 1980-1998 on the box. Doing so would undermine the purpose of the box set, which is to show the group at their best from 1961-2013.

[Nicko1234]

The "wilderness years" are called that for a reason, the BBs weren't very good at that point. Career spanning doesn't mean the compilers are forced to put too much inferior material from 1980-1998 on the box. Doing so would undermine the purpose of the box set, which is to show the group at their best from 1961-2013.

By wilderness years I meant from 1976 onwards and of course the compilers must choose the best songs from that era. They should avoid the inferior stuff absolutely but there is no point in just including a virtually identical tracklisting to the the 1993 set except with different unreleased tracks.

While I am happy that this set is coming out I should say that I think it would be hard to claim that the world really needs another career spanning collection. Since the 1993 set came out the band have done 2 albums (one of them a crappy country effort) which doesn't immediately suggest that a new multi-disc compilation is called for...

[SMiLE Brian]

Agreed about a different tracklisting for the box, its just the quality of work from 1980 doesn't justify too much space on the box set. I would rather take some 1960s-1970s rarities or live material.