The Alan Boyd Thread

[salman rushdie]

No bootlegs - no BWPS, no SMiLE tracks on the Good Vibes box, no Dylan Bootleg series, no official release of the Basement Tapes. And so on. 

[pixletwin]

I agree with everyone's point on both sides of the discussion but not talking about bootlegs won't make them go away and salman rushdie has a valid point, had bootlegs not existed we prolly wouldn't have alot of great official releases, which is counterintuitive to the point that it discourages record labels from releasing this stuff...

But there it is. 

[Luther]

There is a very simple solution to all this talk, of course. The administrators have the power to ban bootleg discussions, such as the Blueboard does; or they can enforce more strict regulations about bootleg discussions. For example, allowing people to discuss the content as if it were "out there," but not discuss trading, buying, selling, upcoming releases, etc. other than in PMs.

I would think either of these (of which I prefer the latter) would help avoid the sorts of comments that seem to have helped Mr. Boyd decide to take a leave from the board.

Interesting point - thing is, the number of archive tracks that have 'leaked' by legit means is very, very, very small. Does even listening to an unreleased track without the artists OK technically constitute theft ?

On the first point, I actually meant that to apply to the world of bootlegs on the whole, and these days there are plenty of (mostly indie) acts whose albums are suddenly available on various file-sharing networks quite intentionally. So those are boots, but they're intentionally leaked, not stolen.

Interesting question on the latter part, and I hadn't really thought about it. I would say no; the commerce surrounding and distribution of unreleased material is theft, but hearing something without sharing, trading, selling or buying couldn't reasonably be considered theft. It probably could still be argued to be problematic by some people, but not me. I don't think.

[Black Tiger]

No bootlegs - no BWPS, no SMiLE tracks on the Good Vibes box, no Dylan Bootleg series, no official release of the Basement Tapes. And so on. 

I second this. BWPS almost certainly would not exist if not for the boots. If no one here is actively trying to buy/sell bootlegs, what is the "harm" in discussing them? We can pretend like they don't exist, but they are out there anyway. Whether or not it's ethically right to download/trade/buy/sell music that artists don't want to be heard is one thing. But no one can claim that a bootleg has ever deprived the BB/BRI/etc of a single cent. It's not as if they're selling "Bamboo" and "Adult Child" boots down at the flea market with the 50 Cent CDs and Spiderman 3 DVDs.

It's only because of the bootlegs/bootleggers that the SMiLE myth was able to survive and grow for 35 years. In "Endless Harmony" Sean Lennon says Smile "is the most amazing thing I've ever heard." I'm sure he would never have heard it by listening to a bootleg. 

[MBE]

Black Tiger I agree with you but the moderators must have their reasons that we should respect.

[pixletwin]

Black Tiger I agree with you but the moderators must have their reasons that we should respect.

In the end, that is all that matters. 

[Alan Boyd]

I just wandered back here to see what was up and I'll admit I'm kind of amazed to see so much back and forth about all of this.  I suppose I should clarify a few things:

Yes, I did leave.  I DID take it personally when someone made a comment along the lines of "the bootleggers are the real heroes of BB-Land" or something to that effect.  This came on the heels of the release of another CD package that included a stack o' tracks that were swiped from my place when I held an open house for fans who'd made the long trek out here to LA for one of Betty Collignon's Carl Wilson Foundation weekends.   Please understand that the theft of that one cassette has caused me more hassle and heartache than many of you can imagine.  It's no fun having to explain, every time one of these bootlegs comes out, that I was the unwitting source of some of the material.  Without going into detail, I will say that it has caused some real problems. 

The truth is that everyone here is well aware that fans are out there trading tapes and tracks amongst themselves, and that's not really a problem.  If anything, the response to that is often something like "Really?  Why would anyone even WANT to hear THAT?"  Collectors and fans have been a great source of help and inspiration in the past - the Endless Harmony CD benefited greatly from the input of several fans and collectors, some of whom sent cassettes of especially rare items that I hadn't even heard (and I thought I knew it all) that prompted deeper vault searches, resulting in some nifty additions to that particular package.  Check out the "special thanks" on the credits of the CD reissue of EH and you'll see all sorts of people listed whose input, advice (and personal collections) helped to make that album a reality.  Other collectors have helped us to obtain copies of long-lost masters, and for that we're eternally grateful. 

Everything changes though, when people take it a step further and start marketing and selling illicit packages.  Sometimes that has the perverse effect of discouraging official releases, and with some of the strange politics that can flare up here in the "record biz" it becomes a royal pain-in-the-you-know-what.  It certainly makes it harder for all of us.

A few years ago I was able to get clearance (and it wasn't easy) to share a huge mass of unreleased material with the fans who attended Susan Lang's "Busy Doin' Something" gathering in CT, and despite the hassles involved (setting up listening stations with headphone amps was a bit of a chore) I thought it was well worth it.  It was wonderful to see the expression on people's faces when they heard some of that music for the first time.  It was set up as a surprise, but it worked, and everyone really appreciated it.  Unfortunately, within days someone posted on some website specific instructions on how to splice into the signal path and essentially "steal" the audio in case we ever did a repeat of that at another event, and that in itself guaranteed there will never be a next time.   Grrrr.

Finally, I also disappeared for awhile because of sheer burnout.   Which happens from time to time.  As Jasper noted, I have been swamped with work lately, and it's just wayyyy too easy to spend a lot of time looking over these message boards when about nine million other things need to be taken care of.... and I KNOW that has to be true for many of you as well!

Can't be the "Beached Boyd" all the time, you know (sorry, couldn't resist the pun).

Meanwhile (say, that could be the title of a song, hmmmm) we ARE working on some new projects that might be interesting.  Or not.  Can't say at this point.  Stay tuned.

And do check out Jasper's "Airplane Song" video on YouTube.    He did a great job with that one - it's really good.

Alan

[c-man]

Good to have you back, Alan. 

[petsite]

The bootleggers ARE NOT THE HEREOS! People like Alan Boyd are. Even Cheryl Pawalski at Capitol (though she now works for Rhino) are OUR GUYS ON THE INSIDE. They get the music out.  Yes their is a bit of fanatasy abotu the "forbidden fruits" thing. But to go on the boards and tell people how to steal signals from audio playbacks. That is so far beyond anything that should go on it is pretty pitiful. Tapes or Cdrs get traded....ok..that always happens. And that prompts the record companies to get off their butts and do something with collectors in mind. But when out right theft is invovled (espeically from Alan, one of our own!) it borders on the unforgivable. Yeah, lets steal from the guys who help the music get out!

 And yes,  maybe Brian doesn't want some of the tracks out, but he also feels validation when people have heard the unreleased stuff and comment postivley on it. I can remember telling Alan Jardine that I thought Loop De Loop was a great great track. But this was in 1981. He thanked me and then stopped dead in his tracks and said "Hey, where did you hear that?" Do I tell him from a tape of Landlocked? Fortunately, he had played the track on British radio program and I also had a copy of that. So I said "from a British radio special". "Oh yeah....welll glad you liked it...I am gonna put it on our new comp (Ten Years Of Harmony)." But that didn't happen

I have rambled enough.....sorry...just tired. But it is great to see Alan back! Beach Boyd..........

Bob F.

[warnakey]

Definitely good to have you back Alan. Just don't let us distract you from the real work.

[Alan Boyd]

By the way, Cheryl Pawelski came back to help us with this massive EMI vault search we mounted a few years back, a sort of quest to find all of the first-generation masters (especially the singles).  She was amazing, incredibly helpful, and very devoted to the music and history there on all those reels of tape.  EMI's loss, Rhino's gain. 

[c-man]

Alan - on page 11 of "TWOTS" booklet...where did the cool picture of Carl playing the bass guitar come from?  I've seen that model or brand before, but can't quite put my finger on it...Gibson? Alembic? or something else?

Thanks

[SMiLE-Holland]

Great to see you back, mr. Boyd!

[Alan Boyd]

Hey C-Man,

Not sure about the bass guitar itself - but that shot of Carl was taken in Al's barn during the KTSA sessions.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Alan - on page 11 of "TWOTS" booklet...where did the cool picture of Carl playing the bass guitar come from?  I've seen that model or brand before, but can't quite put my finger on it...Gibson? Alembic? or something else?

Thanks

Huh ? Page 11 of my booklet is just track info.

[petsite]

Not sure about the bass guitar itself - but that shot of Carl was taken in Al's barn during the KTSA sessions.

I like the Alan Jardine and Mike photos from KTSA as well. I was hoping for a Brian photo then remembering how he looked during that time, it was probably best not to include it. The shot with Brian holding a photo of the rest of the group (from 1966) is being offered as a lithograph from Rhino if you order TWOTS from them.

Tempted........................................................then I will have 3 copies...................................Tempted...........................

Bob

[c-man]

Alan - on page 11 of "TWOTS" booklet...where did the cool picture of Carl playing the bass guitar come from?  I've seen that model or brand before, but can't quite put my finger on it...Gibson? Alembic? or something else?

Thanks

Huh ? Page 11 of my booklet is just track info.

Page 11, the one on the right side of the booklet's center spread, opposite the info for the tracks starting with "Friends".  Maybe the UK version is different?

[Ian]

Alan, I was wondering about two things.  1) Do you have exact info on where and when all the songs on the Beach Boys 73 concert album were recorded? I know some came from a Carnegie Hall show.  2) I have found proof that the BBs a) Did not record Be Still on April 13 1968 or B) Child of Winter on Nov 18 1974.  They were playing gigs on the east coast on both days. Do you have the actual dates of these sessions?  Details- Although Badman recorded the Tampa and Sarasota gigs on Apr 13 1968 as canceled, they were not- I have a review of the Sarasota show- so Dennis clearly did not make a quick trip back to Cali for a session that day . On Nov 18 1974 the BBs were on tour and played a show in Syracuse, NY. Since they played the night before and the day after as well, it is  obvious that Child of Winter was not recorded that day, unless it was just Brian recording his parts that day
Ian

[Jasper]

And do check out Jasper's "Airplane Song" video on YouTube.    He did a great job with that one - it's really good.

Oh, thank you, Alan!
I apologize once again for my thoughtless comment and the trouble it caused.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Alan - on page 11 of "TWOTS" booklet...where did the cool picture of Carl playing the bass guitar come from?  I've seen that model or brand before, but can't quite put my finger on it...Gibson? Alembic? or something else?

Thanks

Huh ? Page 11 of my booklet is just track info.

Page 11, the one on the right side of the booklet's center spread, opposite the info for the tracks starting with "Friends".  Maybe the UK version is different?

Must be - this is the UK booklet:

p2-3 - Pet Sounds promo shot (Brian w/mirror)
p4 - TV studio shot w/striped shirts circa 1964/5
p 7 - band inside circular entrance of building
p 8 - Pet Sounds promo film shoot photo (Brian & Alan)
p 13 - Hollywood Bowl shot (circa 1963)
p 15 - walking down steps, circa 1964
back cover - Hawaii 1967 rehearsals, gathered around Brian's Baldwin.