Feel Flows box set

[rab2591]

Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html

Joel Goldenberg is actually a poster here. Hopefully it's just the start of publications talking about this. Thanks for posting, Cork! And thanks Joel for writing this up!

[SMiLE Brian]

Great work Joel!

[CenturyDeprived]

Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html

Most excellent that word of this set is gaining traction. Let's keep things going in this direction

I would hope that *every* BBs fan could be happy that an article was finally published about the set, hopefully it's just the first of many.

I can imagine some pushback about this article from a small amount of people who'd be offended at an article giving even a tiny drop of speculation that Mike could have something to do with it, but if Mike really truly has nothing to do with what's going on here, he most certainly could address that injustice via social media, just as in February when he addressed the horrible injustice of being implored by decent people to not play a show promoting killing animals for fun, fun, fun.

[guitarfool2002]

For those that like to take the sort of "mob wife" attitude when it comes to this band, the ESQ attitude if you will, of ignoring any internal politics or negativity, and want to just delve into fandom only on *their* terms and only discuss their pet interests; if you want to ignore an amazing set slipping through the cracks and just talk about what type of mics they used at Western in July of 1964, then you can continue to just do that. I personally am happy to do both. I bow to nobody in my interest in every bit of minutia with this band. But I also know how to prioritize and how to keep perspective, and keep things real.

This snippet from a brilliant post from Hey Jude is one we should all put as the sig lines in our posts. And that "mob wife" metaphor is so on-target, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Quite possibly the greatest sentence posted here ever...thanks, man!

Don't want to pile on GV33, as I suspect he had decent intentions, so I will leave the blowtorch on the shelf and simply reprint what Howie wrote so that there is one more signpost for it in the thread, with one comment. From July 29, 20/20:

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.

The "disgrace" will be if Howie's incredibly hard work winds up being for naught. Before any of us are overly tempted to saddle up that big, tall moral high horse, let's keep that in the forefront of our thoughts. "Love and Mercy" for a world that, right now, can use all that it can get would get a tangible boost with the release of FEEL FLOWS.

Just bumping these posts for the benefit of anyone still questioning if the set exists. It's amazing how much time has gone by since that first post in July to where the existence of the set is still being questioned in the middle of September.

And great to see that Joel had his article about the set published - That more people that know, the better.

[Sam_BFC]

Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?

[HeyJude]

Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?

My sense is that a very small group of fans are trying to question as much about this as they possibly can without specifically calling the hand full of knowledgeable sources into question (although sometimes they pretty much are).

I think that small group of fans is a mixture of stubborn fans, the "ten thumbs up, everything's great" fans with blinders on, and people who are frustrated they're not looped in on what's going on behind the scenes, and instead of believing those who *are" looped in, are kind of projecting/deflecting by remaining comically overly-skeptical.

When it comes to "Feel Flows", there is ample evidence to respectfully simply call/ask/proselytize about calling for this set's release. There isn't enough public information to make a like of 50 assumptions/accusations. This is why the focus needs to remain on calling for this set to be released, because that small group of skeptics that are out of the loop seem to latch onto complaining about the fringe theories rather than simply joining all together and telling the band we want this set released.

[rab2591]

Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?

My sense is that a very small group of fans are trying to question as much about this as they possibly can without specifically calling the hand full of knowledgeable sources into question (although sometimes they pretty much are).

To add to this: I and perhaps another speculated that a delay probably was due to COVID, Jon Stebbins came here and said the holdup had nothing to do with COVID (basically spelled out in crayon that the problem was band politics), and that the prospect of the problem getting "worked out" was "not looking good"...keep in mind, there is still questioning as to whether or not there is even a problem. Jon Stebbins also said that the "label wants it" but yet this information is also being ignored because people keep implying that due to one guy not buying a digital release in 2018 that the label may not have faith in the fan support for Feel Flows (otherwise why else would this ridiculous incident keep being brought up in these Feel Flows threads?). It appears that you, HeyJude, have some insider information that you've been able to confirm the severity of the situation (and you've done this several times in the last month), and yet the questioning you speak of keeps rearing its head.

It's just interesting to watch that a lot of the questioning seems to be aimed at posts here...to the point where valuable insider information is incredulously ignored. It's almost like to some it's more important to berate a petition or berate worried fans than it is to find a productive way to help get this set released. Who benefits from this behavior?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?

Anybody who is is also probably a Flat Earther

[Wirestone]

Oh come the f*** on.

Mike has a bug up his ass, like usual, and is blocking an amazing testament to the group's artistry.

He blocked the fucking Pet Sounds boxed set for a year.

Our reliable sources have made it plain as day, and anyone who would doubt that is an idiot.

End of story.

[Rebel]

I’m getting tired of checking this thread.

I see both ‘fans ‘ point of view.

Yes we are ‘owed’ nothing .. but we know it exists.

And we are trying to do whatever it takes to get released.

I don’t know where all of the ‘entitled’ crap comes from.
Jeez. Some of us are really into the thought of hearing new music.

[Tom]

It shouldn't even be a controversy. Brian, Al and Bruce all want it out. I've not a shadow of a doubt that Carl and Dennis would too, if they were alive today. That leaves Mike (and Carl's estate who obviously make their own decisions). I think that's the biggest injustice - what right does Mike have to block a set which is mostly made up of compositions by Brian, Carl, Dennis, Bruce and Al? Let's not kid ourselves - Mike made a couple solid contributions in this period - but frankly they make up a very small percentage of the group's activity at the time. Especially if we don't count All I Wanna Do which was written at the end of 1967.

[Matt H]

ESQ just tweeted about the box set, maybe that means it is moving forward?

https://twitter.com/ESQmagEditor/status/1306053498719670272

[rab2591]

I don’t know where all of the ‘entitled’ crap comes from.

I legitimately don’t know either. The person who originally posted that on the EH forum aimed that accusation at people who wanted the set out “tomorrow” when literally no one has said they want it out tomorrow. The person who initially lobbed the entitlement statement there also signed the petition which specifically states that the signers want to hear this music “as soon as possible” - which could very well mean “tomorrow” if it’s possible. I don’t want to say they’re accusing themselves of entitlement, but then I’m also completely confused as to who they are accusing.

There are many people worried about the copyright deadline which is why many of us want the set out before midnight December 31, 2020...which is why many of us signed the petition.
______

That’s great news about ESQ! That along with Joel’s article will hopefully create some buzz.

Custom Machine also posted this on the EH forum:

And ESQ is teasing us again, this time with the word “several” in the new Fall 2020 issue: “There are several big announcements in The Beach Boys world coming soon.”

[twentytwenty]

So, ESQ finally joins the team, that's great. That along with Joels article means that we're finally getting some kind of movement on this. This is only the start people, BB fans gather!

[Junkstar]

Rab said "people keep implying that due to one guy not buying a digital release in 2018 that the label may not have faith in the fan support for Feel Flows" which points out a real issue for labels right now. Digital sales are dead now where streaming is offered. It's devastating. No band or label wants to give away music for free. I could imagine those holding this up are struggling to decide whether it's worth the cost to manufacture an expansive set now that digital is dead. 

[Steve Mayo]

It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.

[HeyJude]

It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.

None of that has anything to do with "Feel Flows." The delays have nothing to do with fear of low sales or otherwise questioning the economics of releasing the set. The set is NOT in jeopardy because anybody thinks not enough people bought previous sets.

I guess you can start another thread if you want to litigate one person's buying habits from multiple years ago. But on the topic of "Feel Flows", the delays have ZERO to do with marketability/economics/sales projections type of issues. The delays have ZERO to do with what anybody at BRI or Capitol think about the buying vs. streaming habits of potential customers. The delays certainly have ZERO to do with what *one* person said about streaming/downloading a set multiple years ago.

[Junkstar]

In response to Steve Mayo:  ...and because 1969: I'm Going Your Way was released just as digital sales collapsed at the end of 2019, I'll bet it didn't sell very well.

In response to Hey Jude: Apologies if I missed an insider making this claim. I find it hard to believe that economics don't play into this (look at the way Andrew Sandoval talks about the struggle to get out any expanded Monkee releases), but I stand corrected if Alan or Mark have stated otherwise.

[HeyJude]

Rab said "people keep implying that due to one guy not buying a digital release in 2018 that the label may not have faith in the fan support for Feel Flows" which points out a real issue for labels right now. Digital sales are dead now where streaming is offered. It's devastating. No band or label wants to give away music for free. I could imagine those holding this up are struggling to decide whether it's worth the cost to manufacture an expansive set now that digital is dead. 

The delays on "Feel Flows" do not have anything to do with fear or doubts about potential overheard costs or sales numbers. To be clear: "Feel Flows" is not a victim of whatever ills have befallen the record industry. All of those factors, including potential sales on a "Feel Flows" set, were all known and considered prior to the set being prepped and ready to go. The delays are due to completely different factors having nothing to do with budgets or record industry trends, etc.

Also, as has been pointed out many times in the thread, almost all of the overhead costs have already been paid out on this set. They've already paid to research, transfer, mix, master, commission liner notes, prep artwork, etc. All of that has already been done. Releasing the set would only *recoup* those costs to start with.

[HeyJude]

In response to Steve Mayo:  ...and because 1969: I'm Going Your Way was released just as digital sales collapsed at the end of 2019, I'll bet it didn't sell very well.

I guarantee you nobody at BRI or Capitol expected that last-second EP to sell well. That EP was clearly a stopgap just to cover a few tracks because no boxed set was released before the end of 2019.

"Feel Flows" delays have nothing to do with that EP. Nobody is saying not to release "Feel Flows" because not enough people paid to digitally download "Over the Waves" last year.

[Junkstar]

That's fair, although I thought I had read the FF project was launched late last year. The industry had not admitted digital defeat yet at that point.

[rab2591]

It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.

No, Steve, I didn't miss any point. Speaking of points, please point me to where exactly Guitarfool said that he downloaded the tracks illegally. In fact, I'll even link the thread to where this exchange took place for you to easily look for it:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26268.msg644931.html#msg644931

Guitarfool said that he got them for free online. He never said he illegally downloaded them. Now, please read the post written directly after Boyd's comment where Guitarfool explains that he listened to music on YouTube.

When the tracks are on the Beach Boys official YouTube channel, how is it appalling to listen there?

What's appalling is to see a person who exhibited bad behavior, in some cases the words and comments bordering on slanderous and extending from trashing other fans to gossiping about and slandering band members and families, getting acknowledged. If someone insults, lies about, or in any other way wrongs people I consider friends, they're off the radar. And I don't support their future endeavors where their name is attached.

Sorry if that's offensive, but maybe a lot of people still don't know what went on and how dirty it got. Maybe I'm old fashioned but words matter and actions have consequences. In this case, that credit put a stain on an otherwise terrific project.

Jon Stebbins came here and posted that "the label wants it" - meaning there isn't any worry from the label's standpoint that this set won't make money due to some supposed lack of financial support from the fanbase. So why on earth is a post from 2018 about Guitarfool listening to tracks on YouTube at all relevant in this thread? Oh its not, it's just another way for the EH crew to take potshots at a moderator that lives rent-free in their minds for whatever reason.

[HeyJude]

In response to Steve Mayo:  ...and because 1969: I'm Going Your Way was released just as digital sales collapsed at the end of 2019, I'll bet it didn't sell very well.

In response to Hey Jude: Apologies if I missed an insider making this claim. I find it hard to believe that economics don't play into this (look at the way Andrew Sandoval talks about the struggle to get out any expanded Monkee releases), but I stand corrected if Alan or Mark have stated otherwise.

I'm not sure why there are fans stuck on only listening to Alan Boyd or Mark Linett. Of course they know what the deal is. But they aren't the only two people who do. It's like some fans haven't read any BB liner notes since 2000.

I'm telling you, the boxed set was greenlit and 100% completed, and only *then* was backburnered. *That* was *not* due to economics. At all. I've tried to say as much as I can in this thread. I've been on this board for 15 years, have been posting on BB boards for 25 years. I don't post these types of absolutes when I don't know.

In this particular case, I do know what's going on, and it has zero to do with fear/questioning potential sales numbers.

[Junkstar]

Brian and Melinda sent me to Alan last year when I was doing my Murry research. I trust Alan. He has access to the database and the tapes. I was not trying to offend you, but your username does not indicate who you are. How am I supposed to know if you know what you are talking about in this instance.

Edit: They sent me to Alan and Mark. I just looked it up. I mean, c'mon.

[HeyJude]

Brian and Melinda sent me to Alan last year when I was doing my Murry research. I trust Alan. He has access to the database and the tapes. I was not trying to offend you, but your username does not indicate who you are. How am I supposed to know if you know what you are talking about in this instance.

I'm not offended. None of that matters. All I'm telling you is that you can KEEP lobbying for this set because one particular thing you seem weirdly hung up on (the dwindling economic prospects of the record industry) is NOT at play when it comes to "Feel Flows." Why in the world would this small piece of information require extra credentials and vetting?

If you don't believe anything anybody says unless their name is Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (you seem to not mention Howie Edelson for some reason even though he's posted about working on the set multiple times), then have at it I guess.