Heroes and Villains (March Reconstruction)

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Okay, so we all know what Heroes & Villains sounded like on Feb. 10th . 5 days later he tinkered again, recording the “Country Western Clip-clop thing”. Also, maybe the Bicycle Rider theme in a H&V key. Then it was done again, supposedly. What would it have been like then?

Then for some reason he feels the need to re-record the “false barnyard” tag with Carl on Feb. 28. Why? Why waste time on the likes of this nearly identical rendition of the tag when half the album is sitting around in need of some lead vocals?

Then it was supposedly done again. So by taking the Feb 10 version and what we know he cut in the next couple of weeks afterwards before part one was proclaimed finished again, what do we have? Is there anywhere in the song where the country western theme fits smoothly? And what about “prelude to fade”? And what fade was it preluding? If he cut the bicycle rider theme on the 15th, is that the point when it became the H&V chorus?

[jabba2]

This could have been what H&V they were working on but Mike seems to mess up the recording.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qvfiPuFIK6g

[Rocker]

Nope
This is a version cut at Wall Heider's probably for the Lei'd in Hawaii album and Brian told Mike what to say as I understand it

[Bicyclerider]

This has been discussed before - there's two trains of thought on this. 
1. Brian was revising the Feb 10th Heroes, and the new pieces he was recording - the Heroes "chorus" (bicycle rider in a minor key), the prelude to fade (which IS the clip clop piece), and the rerecord of the fade - were to replace or add to the Feb 10th mix.  And let's not forget "intro" recorded March 1 and 2.  It's easy enough to figure out where prelude to fade and the new fade would go - at the end, replacing the earlier fade.  Perhaps the "explosion" would go into prelude and into fade.  Maybe intro (to "pt 2) would go in there somewhere, and the chorus.

2.  Brian had decided to make Heroes into a 2 sided single - the chorus tape box says "side two" which is suggestive of that.  so on side one you have the Feb 10th version, on side two you have intro, the chorus, maybe some of the "sections" (dit dit dit, heroes and villains strung together as on the SOT mono mix done in January), then prelude to fade and the new rerecorded fade.  This at least explains why Brian rerecorded a fade almost identical to the previous fade, as it was to go onto Heroes "Pt 2."

[buddhahat]

This has been discussed before - there's two trains of thought on this. 
1. Brian was revising the Feb 10th Heroes, and the new pieces he was recording - the Heroes "chorus" (bicycle rider in a minor key), the prelude to fade (which IS the clip clop piece), and the rerecord of the fade - were to replace or add to the Feb 10th mix. 

I get confused by the title 'prelude to fade'. If the prelude is the clip clop western piece, then is the 'fade' the flutter horn? There's a recording of the horn with melting strings behind it that sounds like a fade to me.

Or is the 'prelude to fade' the Western theme + Flutter horn and both pieces were to be followed by a fade (perhaps false barnyard)?

[buddhahat]

Then for some reason he feels the need to re-record the “false barnyard” tag with Carl on Feb. 28. Why? Why waste time on the likes of this nearly identical rendition of the tag when half the album is sitting around in need of some lead vocals?

Where can this re-record of FB be heard? I'm not sure if I've heard it or not.

[Bicyclerider]

The prelude to fade includes the flutter horn at the end - the rerecorded fade is virtually identical to the false Barnyard fade on the cantina version, but the tempo is slightly slower if I remember correctly and Carl is singing "doo doo doo's" live over the track.  I think it's on Secret Smile.

[buddhahat]

The prelude to fade includes the flutter horn at the end - the rerecorded fade is virtually identical to the false Barnyard fade on the cantina version, but the tempo is slightly slower if I remember correctly and Carl is singing "doo doo doo's" live over the track.  I think it's on Secret Smile.

Thanks, I will check it out.

So does the fact Brian re-recorded FB around the same time as recording the prelude imply that FB was the 'fade' of Prelude to Fade? It certainly follows it well.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I’m not sure the flutter horn sounds right going into either of the fades. Maybe he did too, that’s why it never came out. During the prelude to fade recordings he says something about having to keep the tempo straight “for vocal purposes”. What sort of vocal could have gone over prelude? Maybe just some harmonies. I dunno. I just can’t make heads or tails out of his actions. And what about “bridge to Indians”? Since there are no indians in H&V, would this piece make more sense as part of Worms? The discarded last note, the “hmmmm”, can we detect the key of that note and figure out what it would have lined up with? Could it have overlapped “prelude to fade” as they perform it now on BWPS?

It seems nutty that he would use the H&V chorus only on side II and not feature it in the song. I guess we’ll never know, unless we tie him to a chair and ask him directly and not let up until he tells us.

I was thinking of the way the Part II vocal chants remind me a lot of the organ break in Good Vibrations. Any of them could have dropped into the song as an interlude like that. And many of them end the same way the organ break does; with a high, soaring “ahhh”.

The Carl sung tag sounds unfinished. I don’t understand the need for Carl to sing live. His need to rerecord it might be as flimsy as his excuse to re-record Wind Chimes and Wonderful over and over again. Still, I can see the idea of there being 2 fades for 2 sides of the record. If he planned on using the H&V piano theme as part of it, then the H&V sections track on the Box must be close to his intent, with only the wrong fade included, although the boxset track seems a bit lengthy for a single side, especially when he ended up using the minute long “You’re Welcome” in the end, so perhaps not all the chant sections would have been used, specifically the Swedish frog grunting stuff.

Has anybody ever asked Brian what Side II/Part II was all about? His lack of memory of anything about Smile further fuels the flames that he had little to do with its resurrection. Aside from apparently remembering the melody for “Worms” from the far reaches of his brain, he doesn’t seem to know what the album or songs represent at all, aside from his scripted “ three movements” answer. Where is the man who waxed poetic to Jules Siegel about the deeper meaning of “Surf’s Up”?

[c-man]

I wasn't aware that Brian recorded "Wind Chmes" and "Wonderful again and again...at least not for the original "SMiLE".  He just held two tracking sections for "Wind Chimes", right?  Aug. 3 and Oct. 5, presumably for different sections of the track, plus vocal sessions.  For "Wonderful", there was the Aug. 25 basic track session and Jan. 9 "insert", which I'm thinking is probably the bizarre "Rock With Me Henry" overdub, plus vocal sessions.

Of course, he re-recorded both songs later in '67 for "Smiley Smile". 

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

....plus the April attempt at Wonderful for a potential Vegetables single B-side.

Including the Smiley versions, he cut Wind Chimes 3 times and Wonderful 4 times. Meanwhile the whole album lay unfinished. Why not just keep what he had in the can and spend 15 minutes recording a lead for Worms or Cabinessence? His behavior makes no sense. He was obviously a confused man.

[buddhahat]

....plus the April attempt at Wonderful for a potential Vegetables single B-side.

Including the Smiley versions, he cut Wind Chimes 3 times and Wonderful 4 times. Meanwhile the whole album lay unfinished. Why not just keep what he had in the can and spend 15 minutes recording a lead for Worms or Cabinessence? His behavior makes no sense. He was obviously a confused man.

Well he said he went into a bummer over Heroes and Villains for months. I think when you get a creative block with something, sometimes you can't leave it alone even though it makes more rational sense to move on to something else and come back later. I think if Brian regarded H&V as a crucial element of Smile (plus the single to follow the hugely successful Good Vibrations) you can see why he would have wanted to perfect that, maybe before tying up lots of other loose ends (even if they just took 10 mins). Perhaps his failure to complete H&V to his satisfaction diluted his enthusiasm for the other tracks. I think there are obviously lots of other reasons why Smile wasn't finished, but imo a creative block explains an awful lot. I don't think his erratic working patterns during this period necessarily mean he was losing it. The gestation of GV could be described as erratic but nobody would argue that it wasn't worth it. Smile didn't work out because he bit off more tha he could chew imo.

[Bicyclerider]

I agree that the "sections" piece from the GV box, with the prelude to fade and rerecorded fade at the end, is too long for a side 2 of the single.

Remember that Mike played a tape of a five or six minute version of Heroes to a journalist just before the single was released.  This could have been an extended version of cantina, with some of the parts we're talking about added, OR it could have been side one and side two of the single on one tape, with a minimal or absent gap where the side break would be.

the tape with what BECAME the Heroes chorus was marked only "side 2" and was a Heroes Pt. 2 session, I believe - so there's no indication that when Brian recorded it he meant it to function as the chorus the way he eventually decided for the Smiley single.  It more likely was just one more section to fit into the jigsaw puzzle.

It's interesting that sunny down snuff was apparently an early part of the song - there is a report of a failed attempt to record it in the studio in December 66 - and it was another Van Dyke lyric that Mike disliked and apparently objected to.  If you listen to the Mike Heroes rant from the Lei'd in Hawaii studio sessions, his disdain for that lyric, whether or not Brian was encouraging him, is clear.  And I found it interesting that in Beautiful Dreamer there's a part where sunny down snuff comes up and Van Dyke says something like "we got that in there" - suggesting there was resistance to that part of the song.  Yet sunny down snuff doesn't appear at all in the Feb 10th cantina version, nor in the Humble Harv Miller demo in November.  It could have been written sometime between Nov 4th and the mid to late December sessions, or Brian may have just left it out of the demo.  But it certainly could have been part of this five to six minute version.

[c-man]

....plus the April attempt at Wonderful for a potential Vegetables single B-side.

Including the Smiley versions, he cut Wind Chimes 3 times and Wonderful 4 times. Meanwhile the whole album lay unfinished. Why not just keep what he had in the can and spend 15 minutes recording a lead for Worms or Cabinessence? His behavior makes no sense. He was obviously a confused man.

What was the date of the April "Wonderful" session(s)?  I know it was mentioned as a possible B-Side to a "Vegetables" Aoril single release, but wasn't aware of any additional sessions for it that month.
Again, I think there was only one "full version of "Wind Chimes", just recorded in two parts at two different sessions, with the intention of spicing it together.  Maybe the first session did produce a full version, but the second session was intended only to replace part, not all, of the original version.  And the January "insert" for "Wonderful" was just to add a drums, bass & guitar overdub track, and I think at some later point he thought about taking just that overdub track and turning it into a different song called "Rock Me Henry" (or whatever it is). 

Agree with you, though...all this meandering is the product of a confused mind. 

[Cam Mott]

I don't know an exact date but judging by the engineer's voice I would say it was recorded at Sound Recorders and so probably sometime between April 4 and 14. Maybe.

Judging by all his purpose and placement notations on almost all recordings, I still can't see Brian as confused or lost.  Determined, dogged, and discriminating, just as with GV, but not confused or at loose ends.

[memoryman]

....plus the April attempt at Wonderful for a potential Vegetables single B-side.

Including the Smiley versions, he cut Wind Chimes 3 times and Wonderful 4 times. Meanwhile the whole album lay unfinished. Why not just keep what he had in the can and spend 15 minutes recording a lead for Worms or Cabinessence? His behavior makes no sense. He was obviously a confused man.

What was the date of the April "Wonderful" session(s)? I know it was mentioned as a possible B-Side to a "Vegetables" Aoril single release, but wasn't aware of any additional sessions for it that month.
Again, I think there was only one "full version of "Wind Chimes", just recorded in two parts at two different sessions, with the intention of spicing it together. Maybe the first session did produce a full version, but the second session was intended only to replace part, not all, of the original version. And the January "insert" for "Wonderful" was just to add a drums, bass & guitar overdub track, and I think at some later point he thought about taking just that overdub track and turning it into a different song called "Rock Me Henry" (or whatever it is).

Agree with you, though...all this meandering is the product of a confused mind.

1) As far as we know, the only lead vocals Mike Love recorded for SMiLE were the Cabin Essence tag and Good Vibrations hook. Common sense would dictate that Mike was slated for at least some of the missing leads for Worms, Great Shape, etc. and Brian has said that although he could have performed the remaining vocals needed himself, he wanted the BB blend. That doesn't sound confused. The confused one was the bearded guy looking his gift horse in the mouth. Pet Sounds probably would have never come out either if Mike had refused to sing That's Not Me and Here Today.

2) The 2nd Wind Chimes session produced the 3 sections heard on the GV box version recorded one section at a time. The 1st session featured a completely different arrangement cut live. Considering Brian added vocals to the 2nd version and didn't use any of the 1st session in his rough mix, I think the assumption that he only intended to replace part of the original version is off base.

3) The Jan. 9 Wonderful "insert" session did not include any of the original Aug. '66 harpsichord track. They're even in different keys. It is indeed a true rerecord of the entire track, as was the April version, which produced the piano track used on the Smiley Smile version.

4) The fact that Brian continued to experiment with arrangements for these songs while the rest of SMiLE lay unfinished doesn't necessarily mean that he was floundering creatively. As I mentioned before, all he needed was for the guys to put they're voices on tape, something he couldn't make them do. As far as I can tell, instrumental tracks had been completed for every song on the Capitol tracklisting by April, with the possible exception of The Elements. In addition, I understand that the master takes for OMP and Great Shape have been snipped off the multitrack tapes for a comp tape which is missing. Who knows how many SMiLE vocals were acually recorded that we haven't heard...

[c-man]

Yeah, I guess you're right about the"Rock With Me Henry" "Wonderful", it's a piano track with Carl doing a partial lead vocal, until he needs a drink of water and stops.  And it's a piano instead of a harpsichord.

But I still think Brian, at least when it comes to "H&V", was confused for awhile as to which direction to take the thing...there were so many possibilities, and all of them were good.  Alan Boyd has even gone so far as to speculate that in early '67 Brian was willing to toss everything that had come before in that song, and was "fishing for inspiration" by recording all those "H&V" vocal chants.  That may be a bit drastic, as I don't think he did toss everything...he used the track from October for the verse, right?   I for one, thogh, think the released 45 of "Heroes" is superior to the mix from January or February...if only he'd finished "Part II" for the flip, and included the "cantina" section, it could've actually topped "Vibrations". 

[Old Rake]

In addition, I understand that the master takes for OMP and Great Shape have been snipped off the multitrack tapes for a comp tape which is missing.

That may be true of "OMP" -- the only version we have with vocals is from an acetate, and as far as I'm aware (Alan?) no multitrack with leads for either the verse or the tag have been found. But it is not, as far as I'm aware, true of "Great Shape." The only "Shape" tape that's cropped up is the tape with the backing track for the only part we have confirmed. The recording from Oct. 17th has gone missing, presumably, and the only other "Great Shape" reference we have is on the "Friday Night" session log. In addition, a performance or partial performance of Great Shape is on the "Inside Pop" missing footage, and god knows what happened to the effort to track down those tapes. "Shape" is, even moreso than The Elements, the great mystery of Smile that will likely never be solved unless a new tape discovery is made (unlikely at this point -- it seems to me pretty much everything's been combed through in the vaults) or unless that Inside Pop footage is found (guys??).

[Old Rake]

something he couldn't make them do.

Oh, I think, as evidenced by sessions and the eventual Smiley Smile release, that he could make them do just about anything. I'm more of the opinion that there WERE leads, or at least some leads, but that they were wiped. Or if they were never tracked -- there is a multitrack reel with MOST of the Smile tracks, which I still think dates from sometime around the time the Beach Boys returned from tour, i.e. late November '66, and I suspect it was made with the intention of cutting lead vocals -- it was more than likely at Brian's behest.

[memoryman]

In addition, I understand that the master takes for OMP and Great Shape have been snipped off the multitrack tapes for a comp tape which is missing.

That may be true of "OMP" -- the only version we have with vocals is from an acetate, and as far as I'm aware (Alan?) no multitrack with leads for either the verse or the tag have been found. But it is not, as far as I'm aware, true of "Great Shape." The only "Shape" tape that's cropped up is the tape with the backing track for the only part we have confirmed. The recording from Oct. 17th has gone missing, presumably, and the only other "Great Shape" reference we have is on the "Friday Night" session log. In addition, a performance or partial performance of Great Shape is on the "Inside Pop" missing footage, and god knows what happened to the effort to track down those tapes. "Shape" is, even moreso than The Elements, the great mystery of Smile that will likely never be solved unless a new tape discovery is made (unlikely at this point -- it seems to me pretty much everything's been combed through in the vaults) or unless that Inside Pop footage is found (guys??).

Alan said that the master take for the "eggs and grits" section was snipped off the multitrack and is missing. That's what I was referring to. It could, presumably, contain unlogged vocals. He also said recently that he hasn't even gone through all the SMiLE tapes, and I also don't think new tape discoveries are unlikely, especially with so many tapes missing. Misplaced/stolen and lost/destroyed are very different things. In my opinion, the 2004 arrangement of IIGS/IWBA/FN is pretty close to what Brian envisioned for the song in December '66. If you "wanna be around," you better be "in great shape." What constitued the earth, air and water sections of The Elements still seems more mysterious to me.

[memoryman]

something he couldn't make them do.

Oh, I think, as evidenced by sessions and the eventual Smiley Smile release, that he could make them do just about anything. I'm more of the opinion that there WERE leads, or at least some leads, but that they were wiped. Or if they were never tracked -- there is a multitrack reel with MOST of the Smile tracks, which I still think dates from sometime around the time the Beach Boys returned from tour, i.e. late November '66, and I suspect it was made with the intention of cutting lead vocals -- it was more than likely at Brian's behest.

As uncommercial as Smiley Smile is, it's lyrically much more in line with the Beach Boys image. Little pads in Hawaii and getting hungry for women is much more Mike Love than columnated ruins domino and crows uncovering cornfields. I agree that Brian had supreme control in the studio, until December 15, 1966, that is. According to Domenic Priore, Mike "picked a fight" with Brian over the lyrics to Surf's Up in front of CBS TV cameras. Dom may just be inferring this from the Siegel quote about the session going badly, but that seems like a stretch as he had access to Wilson and Parks for his new book, and they are definitely being more candid about Mike's resistance of late. The fact that Love went through with Smiley Smile proves nothing about his willingness to complete SMiLE.

[Old Rake]

Alan said that the master take for the "eggs and grits" section was snipped off the multitrack and is missing.

Actually? That was ME saying that, back in the day, hypothesizing based on the fact that none of the versions sounded accurate enough in terms of the tape explosion to be a final take. But I don't think Alan ever said that, or confirmed that. We should ask him to be sure, but that final take with the harp sounds pretty darn final-takish to me -- EXCEPT, that is, for the tape explosion. Its possible, I think, that a final take WAS snipped, but who knows?

I think Josh said recently that pretty much everything on tape -- minus "Jazz," from the IBWA/FN tape, har har! -- has been booted or at least logged. There are a few missing items (we haven't heard all the Barnyard tapes, for example!) but the vast majority we've heard at this point, or they've at least been booted or passed 'round.

I'm really not at all sure the 2004 arrangement of IIGS is anything at all what he planned back in the day. Just going by the structure of hte OTHER songs on the album, which are either very complex (H&V) or very traditional (Child and Worms, which follow a basic verse/chorus/verse/chorus/tag or verse/chorus/verse/chorus/middle 8/tag structure) the sort of disconnected "one verse, then some random stuff" arrangement of that song bothers me. Not that it isn't possible that IWBA/Friday Night were PART of the song -- just that the arrangement probably wasn't what it was in 2004. Maybe FN was conceived as a tag to a longer song with repeating verses, and maybe we're missing a chorus. Or maybe Barnyard was the chorus. Or the tag. I mean, honestly, who knows?

The Earth element confuses me not at all. The illustration saying "My Vega-Tables - The Elements" says it all, really, Cam Mott's unusual objections to same notwithstanding. At one point, at least, "Vega-Tables" was earth. This according to Van Dyke, his wife, and the illustration in the booklet. It might not have STAYED part of it, but I'll take the partial credit rather than the none at all. I'm still not sure Carl got the whole Elements tracklisting right when he wrote out the list, even maybe WITH Brian's participation, but who knows?

I still don't think Mike could have REFUSED TO SING LEADS. No proof of that whatsoever. There's nothing in the group's dynamic that said he was actually NOT SINGING LEADS -- helll, he sang "Over and over" despite objections, and eventually sang "Sunny Down Snuff" despite objections, too. But this way leads to THE THREAD.

[memoryman]

Jesus, my brain hurts. What I remember was Jon Hunt quoting Alan about the Great Shape master take! I'll definitely ask on his thread. As for almost everything in the vault being booted or logged, I think that's largely true, but as I said, missing does not mean lost forever. I, for one, still hold out hope that we'll hear Durrie Parks' acetates (how's that for eternal optimism?) and see  the Inside Pop outtakes.

The thing about the 2004 IIGS/IWBA/FN that rings true to me is actually it's SIMILARITY to other SMiLE tracks in structure. Wind Chimes (at least the quasi-finished version) and OMP (including barnshine) also follow an A-B-C format. I also happen to think that the tape explosion works great going into IWBA.

I agree that Vega-Tables was the earth Element at one point, but the same could be said of IWBA/FN being part of Great Shape at one point due to the session log. Doesn't that get partial credit?

As to whether Mike (or anyone else) ever refused to sing leads, it's all speculation. I do think, however, that it's signifigant that Brian makes that comment in Beautiful Dreamer about being able to finishng the vocals himself, but needing the Beach Boys' blend.

[buddhahat]

Maybe FN was conceived as a tag to a longer song with repeating verses, and maybe we're missing a chorus. Or maybe Barnyard was the chorus. Or the tag. I mean, honestly, who knows?

I genuinely believe that IWBA/FN were always meant to follow Fire as Domenic Priore argues. It follows so smoothly out from the crashing bass-drum (presumably representing a crashing timber) at the end of Fire, the 'rebuilding after the fire' of the workshop is a very logical explanation, plus I feel you need something calm (and humorous) to follow such an agressive piece of music. Of all the Smile pieces that could go together this seems the most convincing and logical to me.

[XY]

I agree that Brian had supreme control in the studio, until December 15, 1966, that is. According to Domenic Priore, Mike "picked a fight" with Brian over the lyrics to Surf's Up in front of CBS TV cameras. Dom may just be inferring this from the Siegel quote about the session going badly, but that seems like a stretch as he had access to Wilson and Parks for his new book, and they are definitely being more candid about Mike's resistance of late.

But we don't know for sure if there was a Beach Boys vocal session for "Surf's Up" on December 15. We know that they recorded "Who Ran The Iron Horse", bv for "Wonderful" and a "Do-wa-wa" chant  (bv for WF, CE or even the Water chant?) and after the boys went home Brian recorded his solo-version of SU in front of cameras.

"Earlier in the evening the film crew had covered a Beach Boys vocal session which had gone very badly."
I think Jules Siegel was expecting something exciting like the "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow"-session he attended a couple of days before, or simply a complete song. Instead the boys recorded 20 takes of just "Who ran the iron horse...who ran the iron horse".
David Oppenheim: "They were doing tiny little pieces that made no sense in and of themselves…just a few notes…also the sessions didn’t make a scene that was at all interesting".