Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes

[Lonely Summer]

Just an FYI for anyone not familiar with these recordings.

This is Fairy Tale Girl, the John Phillips track which got adapted and rerecorded as Somewhere Near Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AvvEDsakI

And this - of course - is Somewhere Near Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAdeXsyIvE4

A song written about John's daughter and her new husband calling asking for money and to score drugs on their honeymoon.



This is John  Phillips' original Kokomo recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAuqngA9CuM

No need to post the BB's version, everyone knows it.


And this is Dick & DeeDee "The Mountain's High":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU2rjoSXI34

And "Still Cruisin'" with the main hook which bears more than a passing resemblance to Dick & DeeDee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZyGeH8Mfdw

I had never heard "the Mountain's High" before, but I don't think it was conscious theft. It's just a three chord progression, very common in pop music.

And I doubt that the average person would have recognized "Somewhere Near Japan" as being a drug song. I certainly didn't until someone pointed it out here.

One other point: it's been stated in this thread several times that the guys should have been aiming to make the type of albums that score high in the charts instead of worrying about hit singles. The thing is, though, "Kokomo" became a song that all the fans attending shows in 1989-90 expected to hear. If the band had dropped it from the sets in, say, 1990 or 91, there would have been a lot of disappointed fans. No, not you guys, the Beach Boy tastemakers that scorn anything made without Brian. The casual fans who filled up those seats at the arenas and state fairs - some of who became fans BECAUSE of "Kokomo". Mike wanted to have more hits like that. I mean, sure McCartney's albums typically chart high these days, but they also drop off quickly. The last even medium size hit he had, "My Brave Face", hasn't been played in his concerts since the tour supporting the album it was on. If he'd had a hit in 1989 of "Live and Let Die" or "Band on the Run" proportions, it would have stayed in his set list, because fans wouldn't let him leave the stage WITHOUT playing it. If the Beach Boys - or Brian on his own - had conjured up another #1 single, they would still be doing it in their shows night after night.

[rab2591]

I am late to the party of listening to Mike’s samples, finally did this morning.

The good:

- Mike sounds like he’s doing something different. As someone who usually chuckled at his work with Melcher and gets sick and tired of hearing Beach Boys references in his modern era lyrics, it’s great to see Mike expanding outward. Many, if not all of these songs are old, but it’s cool that Mike had/has the inclination to change up the sound a bit for his original work at least.

- Rim Raj was the best one I heard - there is some really different stuff happening with it. It sounds closer to Smile than it does his usual attempts to emulate the stereotypical Beach Boys sound. Curious to hear this in its entirety.

- Darlin wasn’t bad! I mean, like everything else I’ve heard from this album it sounds like it was recorded in someone’s closet...but the vocals reminded me of if Nate Ruess had covered Darlin’ as well.

- no Tim McGraw from the July 4th cringefest. And as a bonus, as of yet, there are no music videos for this album that rely on hotel bedsheets for backdrops. Looked at the tracklist on Apple Music and dammit this song is on there.

The bad:

- these songs sound like they were recorded in someone’s closet. There is zero atmosphere whenever I hear drums being played. Everything sounds plastic and not mixed well. It would be interesting to know where they recorded this, because it doesn’t sound like a normal studio to me.

- Mike had the balls to make some childish swipe at Brian for the supposed use of autotune for NPP, yet these songs are FLOODED and drowned in autotune. At one point I thought the spoken word section of ‘Only One Earth’ was autotuned. When Brian’s voice sounded a little different in a sample from NPP half the board went into full-on preschool meltdown mode because of it....even Mike joined in on the ribbing. Threads were made about that sh*t. Nary a peep from the same crowd who reside elsewhere now. But I digress.

That’s about it. My “bad” list is more just griping/bickering. It’s great to see Mike with kind of a hobby in recording now. He’s been much more positive in media interviews, I haven’t heard one cheap shot at Brian in a loooong time. Either recording has been more of a positive distraction from bad vibes, or it has really been a nice release for him - helping him mellow out a bit.

It sucks to see the Do It Again remake on here, and it sucks to hear everything heavily marinated in autotune, but it’s also great to see Mike doing some different things and it’s great to see him spending time in the studio. Wouldn’t it be nice if this recording venture got him interested in getting the real Beach Boys back together for another album and tour. My biggest hope is that nothing else on this album will be as cringeworthy as the DIA remake, and that nothing that cringeworthy ever again gets used during Beach Boys performances.

[NateRuvin]

rab2591,  I couldn't agree with your assessment more. After listening to the song Unleash The Love a lot, I've grown to really like it. The message and the backing vocals are groovy. After listening to it a lot, I've gotten used to the autotune. Not sure if that's good or bad.

[Rocker]

My two cents: I think "Still cruisin'" is a very good album and it's new songs all sound like they could've been hits to me. I think "Somewhere near Japan" is a great song and it being about drugs is something that a band that had the status of the Beach Boys totally could've gotten away with. It's not like all succesful pop songs of that time were about fun-in-the-sun. It's beatifully produced and the vocals are very strong.
If you take "Still cruisin'" "Somewhere near Japan" "Island girl" "In my car" "Make it big" and "Kokomo" and then add some other new songs I think it would've made for a very good 80s Beach Boys album. Or maybe "California dreamin'", which didn't appear on any album before, and "Don't fight the sea" and you'd have a cool Beach Boys album that's mostly Mike-central.

I actually like Still Cruisin' as well. Is it anywhere near their best (or even their very good) stuff? No. But every song is enjoyable, though "Wipe Out" is a bit much (this coming from a huge hip-hop fan). Though I do have to say, I do like hearing Brian do the falsetto on there. But regardless, I enjoy "Still Cruisin'", "Island Girl", "Make It Big" and "In My Car" a lot. And I wonder if Brian singing "still cruisin' after all these years" on "In My Car" was merely coincidence or whether that was a purposeful tie in with Mike's song and the album title.

That's exactly something I also wondered about. But it gives the selection some kind of connection if not a theme.


Regarding "Still cruisin'" and "The mountain's high", I guess Mike certainly knew the song. I'd read that Dick&DeeDee toured with the Beach Boys and that the song was a big hit in San Francisco. But I wouldn't call it a theft. Back in the 60s cases like this were all over the music scene. You take one part of another record and build your own song around it. "Amusement Parks U.S.A." "The girl from New York City" even "Help me Ronda" and others could also fall under that description. That's the way it was back then and no one seemed to have a problem with that. So I guess that is where Mike's (or Terry Melcher; whoever came up with it) coming from. In the more modern years (probably from the 80s onwards $$) it might actually be something you would call a rip-off. But then we'd have to call Brian's "Gettin' in over my head" (Little Anthony & The Imperials' Going out of my head ) a rip-off even more so. I guess with "Still cruisin'" - since it's mostly just the rhythm and you can't patent rhythm and chords - nowadays you would call it a "sample" maybe. There seems to be no question on my mind though that "Still cruisin'" took it's rhythm from "The mountain's high"

[HeyJude]

Just an FYI for anyone not familiar with these recordings.

This is Fairy Tale Girl, the John Phillips track which got adapted and rerecorded as Somewhere Near Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AvvEDsakI

And this - of course - is Somewhere Near Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAdeXsyIvE4

A song written about John's daughter and her new husband calling asking for money and to score drugs on their honeymoon.



This is John  Phillips' original Kokomo recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAuqngA9CuM

No need to post the BB's version, everyone knows it.


And this is Dick & DeeDee "The Mountain's High":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU2rjoSXI34

And "Still Cruisin'" with the main hook which bears more than a passing resemblance to Dick & DeeDee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZyGeH8Mfdw

I had never heard "the Mountain's High" before, but I don't think it was conscious theft. It's just a three chord progression, very common in pop music.

And I doubt that the average person would have recognized "Somewhere Near Japan" as being a drug song. I certainly didn't until someone pointed it out here.

One other point: it's been stated in this thread several times that the guys should have been aiming to make the type of albums that score high in the charts instead of worrying about hit singles. The thing is, though, "Kokomo" became a song that all the fans attending shows in 1989-90 expected to hear. If the band had dropped it from the sets in, say, 1990 or 91, there would have been a lot of disappointed fans. No, not you guys, the Beach Boy tastemakers that scorn anything made without Brian. The casual fans who filled up those seats at the arenas and state fairs - some of who became fans BECAUSE of "Kokomo". Mike wanted to have more hits like that. I mean, sure McCartney's albums typically chart high these days, but they also drop off quickly. The last even medium size hit he had, "My Brave Face", hasn't been played in his concerts since the tour supporting the album it was on. If he'd had a hit in 1989 of "Live and Let Die" or "Band on the Run" proportions, it would have stayed in his set list, because fans wouldn't let him leave the stage WITHOUT playing it. If the Beach Boys - or Brian on his own - had conjured up another #1 single, they would still be doing it in their shows night after night.

To McCartney's credit (sort of?), he has numerous hit singles that he has *never* or rarely performed live, especially post-Wings.

Another Day (US #5, performed in '93 and sometimes in more recent years, but presented almost like a "deep cut")
Uncle Albert/Admiral Haley (US #1, never performed live)
Helen Wheels (US #10)
Junior's Farm (US #3, performed in '75, cut before the '76 US tour, and ignored until the last few years)
Listen to the What the Man Said (US #1, pretty much same story as "Junior's Farm")
Venus and Mars/Rock Show (US #12, see above)
Silly Love Songs (US #1, never played after '76)
With a Little Luck (US #1, never played live ever, though planned for Japan 1980)
Goodnight Tonight (US #5, only played on '79 UK tour)
Getting Closer (US #20, only played on '79 UK tour)
Ebony and Ivory (US #1, played in 89/90, and a one one-off performance since)
Take It Away (US #10, never performed live)
Say Say Say (US #1, never performed live)
Pipes of Peace (UK #1, never performed live)
No More Lonely Nights (UK #2, US #6, never performed live)
We All Stand Together (UK #3, never performed live)
Spies Like Us (US #7, never performed live)
Press (US #21, never performed live)
Young Boy (UK #19, never performed live)

There are a bunch of others I'm ignoring that were in the Top 20/30, etc. Yes, some of these weren't as ubiquitous in music/pop culture as others.

Obviously, this has more to do with having the *luxury* of so many hit songs and recognizable songs that he can choose not to do numerous honest-to-God "hits." He'll do "I'll Get You" or "In Spite of all the Danger" instead of a #1 single.

I think the Beach Boys eventually kept doing "Kokomo" because it was recognizable more than specifically because it was a #1 hit, though obviously those two things are quite related. They usually tended to keep any even moderate hit in the setlist for quite awhile. I think sometimes it was just laziness as far as rehearsing and setlist. I can't be the only person who by the later 80s or early 90s never needed to hear "Come Go With Me" live again. Yet Mike kept in the setlist even after Al was s**tcanned from the band.
 

[guitarfool2002]

The melody being borrowed. ..shouldn't that go on Terry Melcher since he was credited with writing the music?

If the song had multiple writers, no matter what each of them contributed, they'd all be listed as defendants in any legal actions taken with the song. However the credits were registered is how any copyright claims would be named - I don't think the legal cases separate writers by contribution.

Consider that Still Cruisin' (the song) was the follow-up to Kokomo, and Mike's main contribution to Kokomo was the bass vocal melody and hook which opens the song, "Arruba, Jamaica...". Still Cruisin follows the same template. It would be easy to assume that Mike also crafted the Still Cruisin hook/melody since it not only sounds like him, but it follows the same layout as Kokomo. Open with Mike's hook, right out of the gate. That's what did make Kokomo an ear-grabber, but that hook was original, and didn't sound like an old hit from the 60's. Somewhere Near Japan takes 45 seconds before any vocals are even heard, and even more time before anything sounding like a hook is heard.

I guess with "Still cruisin'" - since it's mostly just the rhythm and you can't patent rhythm and chords - nowadays you would call it a "sample" maybe. There seems to be no question on my mind though that "Still cruisin'" took it's rhythm from "The mountain's high"

Mike's initial Still Cruisin bass vocal hook has the same phrasing and melody of "The Mountain's High" hook.

Consider the standards in terms of taking these cases to court as they exist in 2017. Marvin Gaye's estate successfully sued Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams over "Blurred Lines" sounding too much like Marvin's "Got To Give It Up", and even though the case was pretty in depth in terms of the criteria presented in court, a lot of opinions say it was because the two songs as produced and recorded sounded alike especially in the rhythmic groove...even though the criteria got into experts analyzing sheet music, notes and chord progressions.

(Side note - I called this one as soon as I heard the Thicke track. No lie. I sent a few musician friends links to both tunes and said "Did you catch this too?" Answer was, holy sh*t...yep, that's Marvin's groove. Not melody, not chords, not words...groove. And I think that's what has a lot of artists worried because of the precedent.)

Tom Petty successfully sued Sam Smith because Smith's "Stay With Me" shared a melody hook with Petty's "I Won't Back Down". It also shares most of the same chord changes under that hook.

(Side note - As a joke I'll sometimes blend these two tunes together and sing Sam Smith's hook over Tom Petty or vice versa if I'm playing or teaching using either song. It's uncanny if you believe Smith that he never heard Petty's tune.)

In both those high-profile cases the writers claimed they either did not know or were not writing their own songs with the original songs in mind, or consciously trying to nick the musical elements. But they still lost millions, and in Smith's case he chalked it up to coincidence and claims he did not consciously know the Petty tune despite the two sounding so much alike.

And one of the more high-profile examples that kind of opened the floodgates on a larger scale for this stuff was the George Harrison case in the 70's. "My Sweet Lord" versus "He's So Fine". George again claimed no intentional nicking, but George lost because the *hooks* do sound the same.

Just thinking if such a case were ever called, someone played the melody/hook of Still Cruisin next to Mountain's High on the same instrument followed by the recordings, and did it in a blind test to a group of people not invested in the music or artists at all (i.e. an impartial jury), they'd spot it too.

[guitarfool2002]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

My point, guitarfool, was that nothing gets in the way of how much  you despise Mike. If you've paid attention to my posting, I'm not the hugest fan of the guy either. But I also think it's rich that one of the moderators on this board goes out of the way to give the man sh*t. As I've said before, Mike gives us so much material to shake our head at that we don't need to invent more reasons to dislike him.

And while we are it, who are you to call any of Brian's work "throwaway"?

And I know the Dick and Deedee song. I know it sounds similar. Whatever. Just as "whatever" on "At My Window", "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Little Children." The songs are either good or they aren't.

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

Then what was "Little Children"? Or a healthy chunk of Bob Dylan's entire discography? I think hatred of Mike gets in the way of things on here.

Say what?

[Jim V.]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

My point, guitarfool, was that nothing gets in the way of how much  you despise Mike. If you've paid attention to my posting, I'm not the hugest fan of the guy either. But I also think it's rich that one of the moderators on this board goes out of the way to give the man sh*t. As I've said before, Mike gives us so much material to shake our head at that we don't need to invent more reasons to dislike him.

And while we are it, who are you to call any of Brian's work "throwaway"?

And I know the Dick and Deedee song. I know it sounds similar. Whatever. Just as "whatever" on "At My Window", "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Little Children." The songs are either good or they aren't.

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

Then what was "Little Children"? Or a healthy chunk of Bob Dylan's entire discography? I think hatred of Mike gets in the way of things on here.

Say what?

The f***'s that mean?

I was asking, if "Still Cruisin'" amounts to calculated theft, what do we make of Brian's "Little Children" or a whole lot of Bob Dylan's work, from "Song to Woody" to "Blowin' in the Wind" to Tempest? They all owe major debts to other works, but they still stand on their own.

I think the Pet Sounds Forum is a massive fraudulent piece of garbage where people get away with insinuating some bad sh*t about Brian and his wife. But on the other side I do wish we had moderators on this board who didn't think that they are playing the role Brian Wilson's PR flack, and needlessly throwing insults at Mike Love when Mike is doing nearly the same exact thing that others artists I love (Brian, Bob Dylan, Hendrix, The Specials) have done.

[SMiLE Brian]

Happy Chrimbus....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V399tenKALA

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

I think the Pet Sounds Forum is a massive fraudulent piece of garbage where people get away with insinuating some bad sh*t about Brian and his wife. But on the other side I do wish we had moderators on this board who didn't think that they are playing the role Brian Wilson's PR flack, and needlessly throwing insults at Mike Love when Mike is doing nearly the same exact thing that others artists I love (Brian, Bob Dylan, Hendrix, The Specials) have done.

Time for an in-between board called "Dumb Angel" 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

My point, guitarfool, was that nothing gets in the way of how much  you despise Mike. If you've paid attention to my posting, I'm not the hugest fan of the guy either. But I also think it's rich that one of the moderators on this board goes out of the way to give the man sh*t. As I've said before, Mike gives us so much material to shake our head at that we don't need to invent more reasons to dislike him.

And while we are it, who are you to call any of Brian's work "throwaway"?

And I know the Dick and Deedee song. I know it sounds similar. Whatever. Just as "whatever" on "At My Window", "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Little Children." The songs are either good or they aren't.

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

Then what was "Little Children"? Or a healthy chunk of Bob Dylan's entire discography? I think hatred of Mike gets in the way of things on here.

Say what?

The f***'s that mean?

I was asking, if "Still Cruisin'" amounts to calculated theft, what do we make of Brian's "Little Children" or a whole lot of Bob Dylan's work, from "Song to Woody" to "Blowin' in the Wind" to Tempest? They all owe major debts to other works, but they still stand on their own.

I think the Pet Sounds Forum is a massive fraudulent piece of garbage where people get away with insinuating some bad sh*t about Brian and his wife. But on the other side I do wish we had moderators on this board who didn't think that they are playing the role Brian Wilson's PR flack, and needlessly throwing insults at Mike Love when Mike is doing nearly the same exact thing that others artists I love (Brian, Bob Dylan, Hendrix, The Specials) have done.

Whoa...I know you are having it out with GF, but are you seriously taking a swipe at me too? Guess you've missed my comments on how I think Looking Back with Love is way better than Imagination  (which it is) , for starters. I call things how I see them, and I'm blunt as hell. Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion. Please look at my post history and show me an example of a needless sh*t at Mike. Now if you're referring to my shots at Andrew G Dumbass,  well, that is based on something personal (him slandering me is just part of it) and has nothing to do with Mike besides him being on the payroll.

But yeah, please show me an example.

Thanks in advance

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I think the Pet Sounds Forum is a massive fraudulent piece of garbage where people get away with insinuating some bad sh*t about Brian and his wife. But on the other side I do wish we had moderators on this board who didn't think that they are playing the role Brian Wilson's PR flack, and needlessly throwing insults at Mike Love when Mike is doing nearly the same exact thing that others artists I love (Brian, Bob Dylan, Hendrix, The Specials) have done.

Time for an in-between board called "Dumb Angel" 

The Wild Honey Board for Friends!

[SMiLE Brian]

*cough the vibe room....

[Jim V.]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

My point, guitarfool, was that nothing gets in the way of how much  you despise Mike. If you've paid attention to my posting, I'm not the hugest fan of the guy either. But I also think it's rich that one of the moderators on this board goes out of the way to give the man sh*t. As I've said before, Mike gives us so much material to shake our head at that we don't need to invent more reasons to dislike him.

And while we are it, who are you to call any of Brian's work "throwaway"?

And I know the Dick and Deedee song. I know it sounds similar. Whatever. Just as "whatever" on "At My Window", "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Little Children." The songs are either good or they aren't.

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

Then what was "Little Children"? Or a healthy chunk of Bob Dylan's entire discography? I think hatred of Mike gets in the way of things on here.

Say what?

The f***'s that mean?

I was asking, if "Still Cruisin'" amounts to calculated theft, what do we make of Brian's "Little Children" or a whole lot of Bob Dylan's work, from "Song to Woody" to "Blowin' in the Wind" to Tempest? They all owe major debts to other works, but they still stand on their own.

I think the Pet Sounds Forum is a massive fraudulent piece of garbage where people get away with insinuating some bad sh*t about Brian and his wife. But on the other side I do wish we had moderators on this board who didn't think that they are playing the role Brian Wilson's PR flack, and needlessly throwing insults at Mike Love when Mike is doing nearly the same exact thing that others artists I love (Brian, Bob Dylan, Hendrix, The Specials) have done.

Whoa...I know you are having it out with GF, but are you seriously taking a swipe at me too? Guess you've missed my comments on how I think Looking Back with Love is way better than Imagination  (which it is) , for starters. I call things how I see them, and I'm blunt as hell. Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion. Please look at my post history and show me an example of a needless sh*t at Mike. Now if you're referring to my shots at Andrew G Dumbass,  well, that is based on something personal (him slandering me is just part of it) and has nothing to do with Mike besides him being on the payroll.

But yeah, please show me an example.

Thanks in advance

O sh*t. I did not mean a thing towards you Billy. You are nearly the exact example of what a moderator should be. You are fair, you have your own opinions but don't try to start sh*t, and you explain why you make the decisions you do. Sorry for writing moderators when I only meant one.

And I'm sorry for messing with the thread, but I just think something needs to be done here. I mean, you guys have seen my posts, I'm not a Mike Love apologist. For the most part, I think the man is an egotistical, ungrateful, mean-spirited asshole. But at the same time, I don't think we should have a so-called moderator on this board writing half page screeds against him because of innocuous things like swiping a melody from  the '50s duo Drang and the Ding Dong's. It has scared of people who would offer some interesting thoughts on different subjects. Now granted, I think those people should have thicker skin, but still...to have a moderator constantly going on about "correcting the record" on things where nobody has brought up falsehoods, it just strikes me as overkill, and probably has newbie's saying "the f*** is going on here? What is this guy talking about? I just like The Beach Boys and wanted to know about the songs and the band members, not secret plots to unseat Andrew G. Doe as the President of the Mike Love Fan Club."

I know that this post will go unheeded, but I feel like it needed to be said. I love posting on here, and I think posters like Billy C, CenturyDeprived, SMiLE Brian, HeyJude and a few others keep this place interesting. But I think instead of trying to "out asshole" some of the pricks on the other board, we could try not to get so crazy.

I now await a post from GF about "how I totally don't get it, man."

[The Cincinnati Kid]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

My point, guitarfool, was that nothing gets in the way of how much  you despise Mike. If you've paid attention to my posting, I'm not the hugest fan of the guy either. But I also think it's rich that one of the moderators on this board goes out of the way to give the man sh*t. As I've said before, Mike gives us so much material to shake our head at that we don't need to invent more reasons to dislike him.

And while we are it, who are you to call any of Brian's work "throwaway"?

And I know the Dick and Deedee song. I know it sounds similar. Whatever. Just as "whatever" on "At My Window", "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Little Children." The songs are either good or they aren't.

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

Then what was "Little Children"? Or a healthy chunk of Bob Dylan's entire discography? I think hatred of Mike gets in the way of things on here.

Say what?

The f***'s that mean?

I was asking, if "Still Cruisin'" amounts to calculated theft, what do we make of Brian's "Little Children" or a whole lot of Bob Dylan's work, from "Song to Woody" to "Blowin' in the Wind" to Tempest? They all owe major debts to other works, but they still stand on their own.

I think the Pet Sounds Forum is a massive fraudulent piece of garbage where people get away with insinuating some bad sh*t about Brian and his wife. But on the other side I do wish we had moderators on this board who didn't think that they are playing the role Brian Wilson's PR flack, and needlessly throwing insults at Mike Love when Mike is doing nearly the same exact thing that others artists I love (Brian, Bob Dylan, Hendrix, The Specials) have done.

Whoa...I know you are having it out with GF, but are you seriously taking a swipe at me too? Guess you've missed my comments on how I think Looking Back with Love is way better than Imagination  (which it is) , for starters. I call things how I see them, and I'm blunt as hell. Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion. Please look at my post history and show me an example of a needless sh*t at Mike. Now if you're referring to my shots at Andrew G Dumbass,  well, that is based on something personal (him slandering me is just part of it) and has nothing to do with Mike besides him being on the payroll.

But yeah, please show me an example.

Thanks in advance

O sh*t. I did not mean a thing towards you Billy. You are nearly the exact example of what a moderator should be. You are fair, you have your own opinions but don't try to start sh*t, and you explain why you make the decisions you do. Sorry for writing moderators when I only meant one.

And I'm sorry for messing with the thread, but I just think something needs to be done here. I mean, you guys have seen my posts, I'm not a Mike Love apologist. For the most part, I think the man is an egotistical, ungrateful, mean-spirited asshole. But at the same time, I don't think we should have a so-called moderator on this board writing half page screeds against him because of innocuous things like swiping a melody from  the '50s duo Drang and the Ding Dong's. It has scared of people who would offer some interesting thoughts on different subjects. Now granted, I think those people should have thicker skin, but still...to have a moderator constantly going on about "correcting the record" on things where nobody has brought up falsehoods, it just strikes me as overkill, and probably has newbie's saying "the f*** is going on here? What is this guy talking about? I just like The Beach Boys and wanted to know about the songs and the band members, not secret plots to unseat Andrew G. Doe as the President of the Mike Love Fan Club."

I know that this post will go unheeded, but I feel like it needed to be said. I love posting on here, and I think posters like Billy C, CenturyDeprived, SMiLE Brian, HeyJude and a few others keep this place interesting. But I think instead of trying to "out asshole" some of the pricks on the other board, we could try not to get so crazy.

I now await a post from GF about "how I totally don't get it, man."

I know you really want to get back into the Pet Sounds forum, but I don't think another post about how you dislike GF is going to do it. 

[Jim V.]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

My point, guitarfool, was that nothing gets in the way of how much  you despise Mike. If you've paid attention to my posting, I'm not the hugest fan of the guy either. But I also think it's rich that one of the moderators on this board goes out of the way to give the man sh*t. As I've said before, Mike gives us so much material to shake our head at that we don't need to invent more reasons to dislike him.

And while we are it, who are you to call any of Brian's work "throwaway"?

And I know the Dick and Deedee song. I know it sounds similar. Whatever. Just as "whatever" on "At My Window", "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Little Children." The songs are either good or they aren't.

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

Then what was "Little Children"? Or a healthy chunk of Bob Dylan's entire discography? I think hatred of Mike gets in the way of things on here.

Say what?

The f***'s that mean?

I was asking, if "Still Cruisin'" amounts to calculated theft, what do we make of Brian's "Little Children" or a whole lot of Bob Dylan's work, from "Song to Woody" to "Blowin' in the Wind" to Tempest? They all owe major debts to other works, but they still stand on their own.

I think the Pet Sounds Forum is a massive fraudulent piece of garbage where people get away with insinuating some bad sh*t about Brian and his wife. But on the other side I do wish we had moderators on this board who didn't think that they are playing the role Brian Wilson's PR flack, and needlessly throwing insults at Mike Love when Mike is doing nearly the same exact thing that others artists I love (Brian, Bob Dylan, Hendrix, The Specials) have done.

Whoa...I know you are having it out with GF, but are you seriously taking a swipe at me too? Guess you've missed my comments on how I think Looking Back with Love is way better than Imagination  (which it is) , for starters. I call things how I see them, and I'm blunt as hell. Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion. Please look at my post history and show me an example of a needless sh*t at Mike. Now if you're referring to my shots at Andrew G Dumbass,  well, that is based on something personal (him slandering me is just part of it) and has nothing to do with Mike besides him being on the payroll.

But yeah, please show me an example.

Thanks in advance

O sh*t. I did not mean a thing towards you Billy. You are nearly the exact example of what a moderator should be. You are fair, you have your own opinions but don't try to start sh*t, and you explain why you make the decisions you do. Sorry for writing moderators when I only meant one.

And I'm sorry for messing with the thread, but I just think something needs to be done here. I mean, you guys have seen my posts, I'm not a Mike Love apologist. For the most part, I think the man is an egotistical, ungrateful, mean-spirited asshole. But at the same time, I don't think we should have a so-called moderator on this board writing half page screeds against him because of innocuous things like swiping a melody from  the '50s duo Drang and the Ding Dong's. It has scared of people who would offer some interesting thoughts on different subjects. Now granted, I think those people should have thicker skin, but still...to have a moderator constantly going on about "correcting the record" on things where nobody has brought up falsehoods, it just strikes me as overkill, and probably has newbie's saying "the f*** is going on here? What is this guy talking about? I just like The Beach Boys and wanted to know about the songs and the band members, not secret plots to unseat Andrew G. Doe as the President of the Mike Love Fan Club."

I know that this post will go unheeded, but I feel like it needed to be said. I love posting on here, and I think posters like Billy C, CenturyDeprived, SMiLE Brian, HeyJude and a few others keep this place interesting. But I think instead of trying to "out asshole" some of the pricks on the other board, we could try not to get so crazy.

I now await a post from GF about "how I totally don't get it, man."

I know you really want to get back into the Pet Sounds forum, but I don't think another post about how you dislike GF is going to do it. 

You're funny!

Seriously though, it's interesting that my "argumentative posting" or whatever it is gets the moderators on there so upset, yet they allow somebody like the reprehensible Cam Mott continue to play the same game (just in a different direction) and it's allowed. Or for AGD to call names and get away with whatever he wants and he just skates. Sure is odd.

Regardless, I don't dislike GF. I just think his absolute obsessive hatred of Mike Love is doing our board no favors.

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

And I'm sorry for messing with the thread, but I just think something needs to be done here. I mean, you guys have seen my posts, I'm not a Mike Love apologist. For the most part, I think the man is an egotistical, ungrateful, mean-spirited asshole. But at the same time, I don't think we should have a so-called moderator on this board writing half page screeds against him because of innocuous things like swiping a melody from  the '50s duo Drang and the Ding Dong's. It has scared of people who would offer some interesting thoughts on different subjects. Now granted, I think those people should have thicker skin, but still...to have a moderator constantly going on about "correcting the record" on things where nobody has brought up falsehoods, it just strikes me as overkill, and probably has newbie's saying "the f*** is going on here? What is this guy talking about? I just like The Beach Boys and wanted to know about the songs and the band members, not secret plots to unseat Andrew G. Doe as the President of the Mike Love Fan Club."

Some good points there.

[rab2591]

And I'm sorry for messing with the thread, but I just think something needs to be done here. I mean, you guys have seen my posts, I'm not a Mike Love apologist. For the most part, I think the man is an egotistical, ungrateful, mean-spirited asshole. But at the same time, I don't think we should have a so-called moderator on this board writing half page screeds against him because of innocuous things like swiping a melody from  the '50s duo Drang and the Ding Dong's. It has scared of people who would offer some interesting thoughts on different subjects. Now granted, I think those people should have thicker skin, but still...to have a moderator constantly going on about "correcting the record" on things where nobody has brought up falsehoods, it just strikes me as overkill, and probably has newbie's saying "the f*** is going on here? What is this guy talking about? I just like The Beach Boys and wanted to know about the songs and the band members, not secret plots to unseat Andrew G. Doe as the President of the Mike Love Fan Club."

The only thing more consistent than GF’s (on-point) opinion of Mike Love is your constant crusade to nitpick at his posts that has gone on for years. Just like Billy has the right to call out VDPs being a prick to him, GF has every right to interject not only his opinion but actual facts about things that concern this band...and that includes Mike Love. GF has brought to this forum a wealth of information about this band; from the band’s recordings to small bits of history that we all didn’t know about or forgot about. I’d say that the posts of his that you dislike concerning Mike Love are worth his presence here.

And before GF was a moderator this place had a hidden dark side to it...a side now present on the Pet Sounds forum. You called the place a massive fraudulant piece of garbage and that is 100% correct. That would still be the case HERE had Craig not become a moderator. Andrew would still be shlepping off sh*t information to gullible fans like myself, and that information would still be spreading. I was duped by this information, Billy was duped by this information. Many others were duped by this information...sadly some are seemingly masochistic about it and don’t give a sh*t that Andrew did this.

I bring the above up because of your last sentence in that quote above: frankly I’m glad that such things are still talked about because when newbie fans do venture onto this forum they’re hit with a much needed dose of reality: don’t believe the sh*t that you hear, research it for yourself. Yeah, discussing the music is all well and good, but it’s also pertinent to understand the dark sides of this fandom. Right now, on the Pet Sounds forum, newbie fans and old fans are conned into thinking that all is cool now. Even the fucking leadership of that forum won’t get rid of Andrew even after he, like the child he is, started an entire thread that not only bashed the musical tastes of a fellow fan but went after them with personal name calling...and it follows perfectly with the pattern of that crew going after women. I bring this up because it would still be happening here had Craig not stepped in...and keeping this information well engrained to new posters is pertinent if we don’t want sh*t like that to happen again (though I admit, the PS forum rolled out the red carpet for this sh*t to happen all over again...bravo guys).

I also find it rich that you’re going after Craig because of newbies supposedly asking “what the hell is going on here?” when you yourself chased off Stephen Desper (arguably the greatest eyewitness source of Beach Boys information on this website) because of some dumb f*** Trump hissy fit. More sympathetic to anti-Trumpers I couldn’t be, but talk about pointlessly burning bridges for a forum over something pitifully insignificant. Whereas your beef with Craig lies with him sharing his opinion and information about ON-TOPIC subjects...ok then. I’ll take on-topic discussion any day over tearing down a Beach Boys insider over bullshit politics.

[Jim V.]

I also find it rich that you’re going after Craig because of newbies supposedly asking “what the hell is going on here?” when you yourself chased off Stephen Desper (arguably the greatest eyewitness source of Beach Boys information on this website) because of some dumb f*** Trump hissy fit. More sympathetic to anti-Trumpers I couldn’t be, but talk about pointlessly burning bridges for a forum over something pitifully insignificant. Whereas your beef with Craig lies with him sharing his opinion and information about ON-TOPIC subjects...ok then. I’ll take on-topic discussion any day over tearing down a Beach Boys insider over bullshit politics.

Thank you for the post rab, greatly appreciate! 

Anyways, since I only have a bit of time, but about Desper, I didn't run him off in an anti-Trump hissy-fit. In fact, I didn't think my post or two had anything to do with him leaving. But if you're going to ascribe such a level of importance to me, then I'll take it. But regardless, to remind you, I'll point out that the thread in question had him comparing crowds at Donald Trump events to crowds at Beach Boys events. And it came off to me as very, very tenuous way of connecting his political hero with his former employer. Cuz let's be honest, I could've connected like....umm...."Brian Wilson has full head of hair on his head and SO DOES DONALD TRUMP! ISN'T THAT CRAZY THEY BOTH HAVE A FULL HEAD OF HAIR?!?" and people would've been like, "so what, so does a billion other people."

And that was why I poked it at. It was obvious he was a Trump fan (remember the anti-Mexican/anti-immigrant "Surfin' U.S.A." parody video he had posted months earlier) and in trying to share his excitement he brought it up in a place where there was no room for it. So I gave him the business. Once again, if he's so thin-skinned that he can't understand why interjecting Donald Trump into the forum wasn't a good idea, well we don't need him here.

And to be honest, though I wish I learned a lot from him, some of his memories seem very suspect. For instance, "Good Timin'" (not "Good Time" but "Good Timin'") starting to be tracked in the Sunflower era. Dude stood by this. I very fuckin' highly doubt that. And that's just one off the top of my head. I'm not saying all his info is useless, but even eyewitnesses may not remember things exactly.

So that there is the story. Don't try to act like "ol' sweetdude Spagett hates Desper cuz he's a Republican" and forced him off the board. I don't give a sh*t about his political persuasion. I've bought Mike Love albums before and I'm gonna buy the new one. I think Clint Eastwood is one hell of an actor and director. The list could go on. So at least get the facts straight on that.

Lastly, bummed to see you don't dig me brother. Always enjoyed your posts. Likely still will.

[Jim V.]

And lastly, as I said earlier, I think Billy is the example of what a moderator should be. Highly opinionated, but still fair. I don't feel that same fairness and evenhandedness from GF. Just my opinion.

[SMiLE Brian]

As somebody targeted by AGD, both Billy and GF saved my ass more than once! Doe’s campaign was ruthless....

[rab2591]

95% of the time I agree with what you post. I’ve just seen you go after Craig so often over nothing that it gets annoying as hell. You’ve got some sort of beef with him and half the time he posts you find something to quibble about.

As for the Desper thread. I fully remember that thread and remember what you wrote regarding him...so yeah, I will definitely attribute his hiatus from this place mostly to you and another member. His post/thread was harmless - what I saw was other people have thin skin about his comparison to a political event. Whereas most people could shrug off the comment and go straight to discussing the meat of his post, some had to pounce on him, of all fucking people, for the comparison.

As for Desper not being a valued part of this community. The videos he meticulously puts together for OUR benefit are incredible and more eye opening (ear opening) than what many other insiders have brought to the table here. He didn’t/doesn’t have to make those videos but he did/does because he loves this band and appreciates that fans are kind enough to watch and take something away from them. If he gets a few recollections wrong (not saying he does, but if), who cares? That’s why we have the ability to cross check and research ourselves. 

Billy is a FANTASTIC moderator. And between what he has gone through in his personal life, as well as what he has had to deal with on this site, he has done a damn great job helping keep this place together. That being said, Craig’s style is also welcome here, where he may be less lenient he cleaned up a lot of sh*t that now permeates other forums. I welcome both styles of moderation.

[rab2591]

rab2591,  I couldn't agree with your assessment more. After listening to the song Unleash The Love a lot, I've grown to really like it. The message and the backing vocals are groovy. After listening to it a lot, I've gotten used to the autotune. Not sure if that's good or bad.

Well if you enjoy the music then it’s good that you’re getting used to the effect. I think autotune sounds good on some modern music (a recent Julia Michael’s song comes to mind) - something about autotune and young voices seems to really click. Whereas when it’s used haphazardly with older people it really really sucks, imo...case in point the C50 live album.

But to each their own, if you’re getting used to it then keep on enjoying the tunes!

[Pretty Funky]

 I’ll point out that the thread in question had him comparing crowds at Donald Trump events to crowds at Beach Boys events.

I remember it as comparing the two stage set-up for two appearances in different cities, the same day.

[Cabinessenceking]

I also find it rich that you’re going after Craig because of newbies supposedly asking “what the hell is going on here?” when you yourself chased off Stephen Desper (arguably the greatest eyewitness source of Beach Boys information on this website) because of some dumb f*** Trump hissy fit. More sympathetic to anti-Trumpers I couldn’t be, but talk about pointlessly burning bridges for a forum over something pitifully insignificant. Whereas your beef with Craig lies with him sharing his opinion and information about ON-TOPIC subjects...ok then. I’ll take on-topic discussion any day over tearing down a Beach Boys insider over bullshit politics.

Thank you for the post rab, greatly appreciate!  

Anyways, since I only have a bit of time, but about Desper, I didn't run him off in an anti-Trump hissy-fit. In fact, I didn't think my post or two had anything to do with him leaving. But if you're going to ascribe such a level of importance to me, then I'll take it. But regardless, to remind you, I'll point out that the thread in question had him comparing crowds at Donald Trump events to crowds at Beach Boys events. And it came off to me as very, very tenuous way of connecting his political hero with his former employer. Cuz let's be honest, I could've connected like....umm...."Brian Wilson has full head of hair on his head and SO DOES DONALD TRUMP! ISN'T THAT CRAZY THEY BOTH HAVE A FULL HEAD OF HAIR?!?" and people would've been like, "so what, so does a billion other people."

And that was why I poked it at. It was obvious he was a Trump fan (remember the anti-Mexican/anti-immigrant "Surfin' U.S.A." parody video he had posted months earlier) and in trying to share his excitement he brought it up in a place where there was no room for it. So I gave him the business. Once again, if he's so thin-skinned that he can't understand why interjecting Donald Trump into the forum wasn't a good idea, well we don't need him here.

And to be honest, though I wish I learned a lot from him, some of his memories seem very suspect. For instance, "Good Timin'" (not "Good Time" but "Good Timin'") starting to be tracked in the Sunflower era. Dude stood by this. I very fuckin' highly doubt that. And that's just one off the top of my head. I'm not saying all his info is useless, but even eyewitnesses may not remember things exactly.

So that there is the story. Don't try to act like "ol' sweetdude Spagett hates Desper cuz he's a Republican" and forced him off the board. I don't give a sh*t about his political persuasion. I've bought Mike Love albums before and I'm gonna buy the new one. I think Clint Eastwood is one hell of an actor and director. The list could go on. So at least get the facts straight on that.

Lastly, bummed to see you don't dig me brother. Always enjoyed your posts. Likely still will.

Desper is a Trump fan? Well, talking about disappointing trivia for ya.
As for drawing a link between Trump related events and Beach Boys concerts? Really? Maybe Desper will reflect and regains his sensibility.