Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes

[guitarfool2002]

That photo would be 25% better if Mike wore a Dallas Cowboys hat.

[guitarfool2002]

Question open for discussion, and yes it is purely subjective and based on how you hear the songs:

***Was the original material the band gave Capitol "hit material"?***

It's tough to know, because even many of those among us who know their BB history back and forward aren't super familiar with what would have or could have been a "hit" in 1989. I lived through that time, and remember what *did* hit, and I'm not sure I can say what would constitute a hit. Obviously, nobody ever knows for sure.

Howie Edelson in a recent Fabcast with Mark Lewisohn went over the tone of the charts in that same timeframe, talking about whether what McCartney was doing could have really been a "hit", as in a hit single.

Sometimes it's easier to figure out what probably *wouldn't* be a hit.

McCartney's "My Brave Face" in my is, in some ways, a bit similar to the BB's "Somewhere Near Japan." Both from 1989, both songs are relatively high marks for the era for their respective artists. Catchy songs, songs that *the fans* tend to hold dear. But were they going to be #1 singles, or even Top 10? I'd say probably not. In both cases, it was a case of the artists doing what they did well, melodic, catchy stuff.

Clarification: In the US "My Brave Face" went top-5 on the AC singles charts (peak #4), went top-20 on the Mainstream Rock charts (peak #12), and went top-30 on the Hot 100 (pop) chart (peak #25). It also had a video which was getting semi-regular rotation on MTV, in part because it's cleverly taking the piss out of Beatle collectors and has a few in-jokes for fans and rare film clips of Macca. Plus, it's a decent song.

"Still Cruisin'" barely cracked the top 100, peaking at #93.

"Somewhere Near Japan" didn't chart at all.

"My Brave Face" wasn't a smash hit or #1, but it did well for a brand new McCartney song, especially on the AC charts which was his core audience at that point anyway. If the concert I saw at Vet Stadium in Philly for the Flowers In The Dirt tour was any indication, that was the AC audience and demographic who could afford those tickets in 1989-90.

Top 5 - Pretty good. #93...not so good. Not charting at all...very sad.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

That photo would be 25% better if Mike wore a Dallas Cowboys hat.

Probably the only time something could improved with Dallas Cowboys *anything*

[SMiLE Brian]

What was the period without a Houston football team like?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Considering I dislike football intensely, glorious.

[CenturyDeprived]

We all remember the end-of-tour reunion dinner that Mike skipped back in 2012. He's making up for it now with his own "Unleash the Love" dinner. Table for one:

Wasn't Mike a vegetarian? Or did I imagine it? Or was that only for a time, and no longer?

[NateRuvin]

He's usually vegetarian but eats fish sometimes.

[SMiLE Brian]

Considering I dislike football intensely, glorious.

No Earl Campbell Jersey?

[rab2591]

Either way that plate is making me hungry!

[SMiLE Brian]

I would prefer BW's deli....

[NateRuvin]

As of today, Mike is all finished with previewing his new songs on Facebook... Now we're onto the BBs re-recording portion of his 25 Days Of Love... This will be harder for me to get through than the new stuff. I find charm in the Adrian Baker era re-recordings, because I think the power of the BBs music carries through, and I think it will with these new recordings too.

[KDS]

What was the period without a Houston football team like?

At least Houston didn't have to wait as long as Baltimore did. 

Though, I still don't get why Tennessee retained the rights to the Oilers even after changing their name and logo. 

[HeyJude]

Question open for discussion, and yes it is purely subjective and based on how you hear the songs:

***Was the original material the band gave Capitol "hit material"?***

It's tough to know, because even many of those among us who know their BB history back and forward aren't super familiar with what would have or could have been a "hit" in 1989. I lived through that time, and remember what *did* hit, and I'm not sure I can say what would constitute a hit. Obviously, nobody ever knows for sure.

Howie Edelson in a recent Fabcast with Mark Lewisohn went over the tone of the charts in that same timeframe, talking about whether what McCartney was doing could have really been a "hit", as in a hit single.

Sometimes it's easier to figure out what probably *wouldn't* be a hit.

McCartney's "My Brave Face" in my is, in some ways, a bit similar to the BB's "Somewhere Near Japan." Both from 1989, both songs are relatively high marks for the era for their respective artists. Catchy songs, songs that *the fans* tend to hold dear. But were they going to be #1 singles, or even Top 10? I'd say probably not. In both cases, it was a case of the artists doing what they did well, melodic, catchy stuff.

Clarification: In the US "My Brave Face" went top-5 on the AC singles charts (peak #4), went top-20 on the Mainstream Rock charts (peak #12), and went top-30 on the Hot 100 (pop) chart (peak #25). It also had a video which was getting semi-regular rotation on MTV, in part because it's cleverly taking the piss out of Beatle collectors and has a few in-jokes for fans and rare film clips of Macca. Plus, it's a decent song.

"Still Cruisin'" barely cracked the top 100, peaking at #93.

"Somewhere Near Japan" didn't chart at all.

"My Brave Face" wasn't a smash hit or #1, but it did well for a brand new McCartney song, especially on the AC charts which was his core audience at that point anyway. If the concert I saw at Vet Stadium in Philly for the Flowers In The Dirt tour was any indication, that was the AC audience and demographic who could afford those tickets in 1989-90.

Top 5 - Pretty good. #93...not so good. Not charting at all...very sad.

I was speaking more in reference to the discussion of "My Brave Face" in the Fabcast; that McCartney thought it could be a #1 hit, and it didn't really do that well compared to what he had been doing even earlier in the 80s, even with dreck like "Spies Like Us."

The common thread I was drawing between it and SNJ was how fans, especially in the moment and then separately many years later, view both songs as very good material relative to what these artists were doing at the time, yet neither was a "hit."

McCartney was launching his first solo tour ever, and first world tour since 1976 (and first tour of any sort since 1979), and had high hopes for FITD. Believe me, McCartney was probably more surprised *and* frustrated about how "My Brave Face" (and certainly the other singles from the album that truly tanked) performed than the BBs were about "Somewhere Near Japan." I doubt McCartney has ever taken much solace in doing okay on any of those sub-charts like the AC charts. He was looking at the singles chart, and saw it stall at #25, followed by "This One" stalling at #94 and "Figure of Eight" at #92. Even "Press" from 1986 did better at #21.

Heck, McCartney by the later singles on FITD was doing "Beach Boys" type business on the singles chart. "Still Cruisin'" as a single hit #93.

When you look at how the BBs were doing on the singles chart in the 80s, I'm not sure why they were still chasing it. I suppose it was because "Kokomo" was a surprise hit. But it was the textbook definition of an anomaly.

What were their relative hits in the 80s?

"Beach Boys Medley" hit #12 in 1981. A fluke due to a trend, and obviously not any original material.

"Come Go With Me", now three years old, was pulled from "Ten Years of Harmony" and, again a relative fluke, hit #18.

"Getcha Back" hit #26.

Some other singles either didn't chart or were in the lowest reaches of the Top 100.

"Wipe Out" hit #12, "Kokomo" hit #1, and then "Still Cruisin'" hit #93, and the BBs were never seen in the US Hot 100 singles chart again.

I suppose the ultimate debate is, how much is this the fault of the band? I'd argue the main problem was overall lack of productivity. If they had done an album in 1989, another in 1990, and then another in 1992/93, and so on, and held some modicum of a standard for the material on those albums (meaning at least the quality of the originals on "Still Cruisin'", and not "SIP"), then they at least would have had more chances to score another "Come Go With Me" sort of surprise Top 10 or 20 hit.

But what would have been great, again, was for them to concentrate on albums. McCartney's "Hot 100" singles action fell off in much the same way, with some okay showings on those sub-charts, and just the occasional single popping back into the singles chart.

There was a period of time in the 90s and 2000s when a lot of older bands seemed totally clueless, desperately wanting a "hit single" when actual purchase of singles was not much of a thing in general in the US, and radio airplay wasn't happening for these bands.

[HeyJude]

Kind of bummed Mike didn't re-record this for his new album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wDs8PYNrDg

[Jim V.]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Never heard of "The Mountain's High" before. That said "Island Girl" does borrow parts of the melody from 'The Tide is High" by Blondie.

[Rocker]

That said "Island Girl" does borrow parts of the melody from 'The Tide is High" by Blondie.

-> Buddy Holly's "Everyday"




My two cents: I think "Still cruisin'" is a very good album and it's new songs all sound like they could've been hits to me. I think "Somewhere near Japan" is a great song and it being about drugs is something that a band that had the status of the Beach Boys totally could've gotten away with. It's not like all succesful pop songs of that time were about fun-in-the-sun. It's beatifully produced and the vocals are very strong.
If you take "Still cruisin'" "Somewhere near Japan" "Island girl" "In my car" "Make it big" and "Kokomo" and then add some other new songs I think it would've made for a very good 80s Beach Boys album. Or maybe "California dreamin'", which didn't appear on any album before, and "Don't fight the sea" and you'd have a cool Beach Boys album that's mostly Mike-central.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Confession...the only song I can't stand on Still Cruisin is "In My Car" (although the lyrics to "Make It Big" come close).  I can bear the title track without cringing.

[Jim V.]

My two cents: I think "Still cruisin'" is a very good album and it's new songs all sound like they could've been hits to me. I think "Somewhere near Japan" is a great song and it being about drugs is something that a band that had the status of the Beach Boys totally could've gotten away with. It's not like all succesful pop songs of that time were about fun-in-the-sun. It's beatifully produced and the vocals are very strong.
If you take "Still cruisin'" "Somewhere near Japan" "Island girl" "In my car" "Make it big" and "Kokomo" and then add some other new songs I think it would've made for a very good 80s Beach Boys album. Or maybe "California dreamin'", which didn't appear on any album before, and "Don't fight the sea" and you'd have a cool Beach Boys album that's mostly Mike-central.

I actually like Still Cruisin' as well. Is it anywhere near their best (or even their very good) stuff? No. But every song is enjoyable, though "Wipe Out" is a bit much (this coming from a huge hip-hop fan). Though I do have to say, I do like hearing Brian do the falsetto on there. But regardless, I enjoy "Still Cruisin'", "Island Girl", "Make It Big" and "In My Car" a lot. And I wonder if Brian singing "still cruisin' after all these years" on "In My Car" was merely coincidence or whether that was a purposeful tie in with Mike's song and the album title.

[Lonely Summer]

"The Beach Boys delivered their part of the deal - 5 new songs"    -  Carl told me the record company wanted only 3 !           

Exactly. So it doesn't sound like Capitol was exactly super confident about the guys delivery great new songs. If there was going to be a new studio album, it needed to be then, 1989, not a year later, and certainly not 3 or 4 years later.

[Lonely Summer]

Question open for discussion, and yes it is purely subjective and based on how you hear the songs:

***Was the original material the band gave Capitol "hit material"?***

It's tough to know, because even many of those among us who know their BB history back and forward aren't super familiar with what would have or could have been a "hit" in 1989. I lived through that time, and remember what *did* hit, and I'm not sure I can say what would constitute a hit. Obviously, nobody ever knows for sure.

Howie Edelson in a recent Fabcast with Mark Lewisohn went over the tone of the charts in that same timeframe, talking about whether what McCartney was doing could have really been a "hit", as in a hit single.

Sometimes it's easier to figure out what probably *wouldn't* be a hit.

McCartney's "My Brave Face" in my is, in some ways, a bit similar to the BB's "Somewhere Near Japan." Both from 1989, both songs are relatively high marks for the era for their respective artists. Catchy songs, songs that *the fans* tend to hold dear. But were they going to be #1 singles, or even Top 10? I'd say probably not. In both cases, it was a case of the artists doing what they did well, melodic, catchy stuff.

Clarification: In the US "My Brave Face" went top-5 on the AC singles charts (peak #4), went top-20 on the Mainstream Rock charts (peak #12), and went top-30 on the Hot 100 (pop) chart (peak #25). It also had a video which was getting semi-regular rotation on MTV, in part because it's cleverly taking the piss out of Beatle collectors and has a few in-jokes for fans and rare film clips of Macca. Plus, it's a decent song.

"Still Cruisin'" barely cracked the top 100, peaking at #93.

"Somewhere Near Japan" didn't chart at all.

"My Brave Face" wasn't a smash hit or #1, but it did well for a brand new McCartney song, especially on the AC charts which was his core audience at that point anyway. If the concert I saw at Vet Stadium in Philly for the Flowers In The Dirt tour was any indication, that was the AC audience and demographic who could afford those tickets in 1989-90.

Top 5 - Pretty good. #93...not so good. Not charting at all...very sad.

Let's not forget that AC radio jumped on Still Cruisin' right away, and it was top ten on that chart.

[guitarfool2002]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

[SMiLE Brian]

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

[Jim V.]

"Still Cruisin'" the song was almost a shameless rip-off of "The Mountains High" by Dick & DeeDee, with Mike's nostalgia lyrics on full display. Who was the audience for this? Baby Boomers or kids watching MTV?

Let's not use this one as a diss on Mike. We've got a lot of material on the man, but songs being "shameless rip-offs" is actually something that The Beach Boys do pretty well ("Surfin' U.S.A." with "Sweet Little Sixteen", "At My Window" with "Raspberries, Strawberries", Brian's recent [at the time] "Little Children" with "Mountain of Love") and if anything "Still Cruisin'" is just another Beach Boys adaption. Plus, we can actually be pretty sure to say that Mr. Paul Simon deserves some credit (not literal legal credit, er.....maybe?) for the lyrics of "Still Cruisin'". I mean, "still crazy after all of these years..." and "still cruisin' after all of these years"? Pretty obvious where Dr. Love got the idea.

And secondly, I'm not sure I know many people who know "The Mountain's High" anyway.

Most who grew up with the Beach Boys listening to radio in the 60's knows The Mountain's High. It's the same demographic Mike's nostalgia lyrics in Still Cruisin were targeting, that was who he was singing to.

You didn't respond to my point. Are the other songs "shameless rip-offs" too? Or just "Still Cruisin'"? I don't think any of them should be classified that way, regardless of my opinions on the person who developed the song ("Little Children" and "Surfin' U.S.A." in Brian's case, "At My Window" in Al's case and "Still Cruisin'" in Mike's case).

I didn't respond? Hmm. Now I will.

Apart from Surfin USA which you'll recall the band got sued for and lost the rights to that song to Chuck Berry's publisher from then in the 60's until eternity because it was found to be a rip-off, which of the songs you mentioned had the position which "Still Cruisin'" had as an anticipated hit single with high hopes as the follow up to the number 1 smash hit Kokomo? None of them. Little Children? At My Window? Apples and oranges. And if knowing or not knowing the Dick & DeeDee record is an issue, how many less people have any idea what the tunes you referenced sound like? None of them are known outside the hardcore Beach Boys fanbase. Little Children was a throwaway album cut clocking in at under 2 minutes. None were follow up singles with high hopes being put on them after a #1 single and the band's return after 2 decades to releasing new music on thier original home label.

Did you listen to The Mountain's High? Hear the similarities with Still Cruisin? Still Cruisin was the single Mike delivered to follow up a number 1 hit, and it was a rip of an old 60's hit. The hook is the same, the melody, groove, etc.

Maybe Paul Simon should have tried to sue Mike on those lyrics too. That would have been fun.

Maybe Mike was betting that the target audience who was so into Kokomo and Tom Cruise and Stamos playing conga drums to bikini girls wouldn't know where he lifted the ideas from either, in this case an early 60's hit. I'm actually, seriously surprised Mike (and Terry) wasn't sued for that blatant of a lift. But Mike banks on ignorance among audiences pretty regularly, so it's no surprise if he thought no one would notice.

I think Capitol expected something that at least sounded original, which Kokomo did as a polishing-up of an existing John Phillips song. Instead they got something Mike nicked from an old record. Maybe that's why it stiffed.

My point, guitarfool, was that nothing gets in the way of how much  you despise Mike. If you've paid attention to my posting, I'm not the hugest fan of the guy either. But I also think it's rich that one of the moderators on this board goes out of the way to give the man sh*t. As I've said before, Mike gives us so much material to shake our head at that we don't need to invent more reasons to dislike him.

And while we are it, who are you to call any of Brian's work "throwaway"?

And I know the Dick and Deedee song. I know it sounds similar. Whatever. Just as "whatever" on "At My Window", "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Little Children." The songs are either good or they aren't.

Surfin USA was inexperienced songwriting, Still Cruisin was calculated theft.

Then what was "Little Children"? Or a healthy chunk of Bob Dylan's entire discography? I think hatred of Mike gets in the way of things on here.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The melody being borrowed. ..shouldn't that go on Terry Melcher since he was credited with writing the music?