Most Polarizing Beach Boys album

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

To be fair, the only things Smiley Smile and Love You are missing are good songs, good production, and good vocals.  

 

(Rolling up sleeves)

Let's take this outside.

[KDS]

To be fair, the only things Smiley Smile and Love You are missing are good songs, good production, and good vocals.  

 

(Rolling up sleeves)

Let's take this outside.

Should I be listening for the notes they're not playing? 

 

[HeyJude]

To be fair, the only things Smiley Smile and Love You are missing are good songs, good production, and good vocals.  

 

To those especially put off by the "sound" of "Love You", the 1976 Brian demo tape (demoing "Love You" and "Adult Child" material) should be ample proof that some of the "Love You" *songs* are quite good. That little left-turn chord change at the end of "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" is amazing, and several other "Love You" songs shine through on those simple piano demos.

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

We do obviously hear very different things. I hear everything I love about Brian as a composer in spades on those two albums. Mainly in terms of form and arrangement. Chord sequence as well, especially on Smiley Smile. Just compare the Wind Chimes chord progression with the less adventurous Smile version. No comparison.

But as I've  said many terms, aren't  we lucky to have such a diverse cataogue? Literally something for everyone.

[HeyJude]

Make no mistake, it's not always 100% awesome. The "Love You" demo tape has some transcendent, amazing moments. And it also has "Mona", in my opinion one of his most annoying, monotonous songs ever.

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

To be fair, the only things Smiley Smile and Love You are missing are good songs, good production, and good vocals.  

 

To those especially put off by the "sound" of "Love You", the 1976 Brian demo tape (demoing "Love You" and "Adult Child" material) should be ample proof that some of the "Love You" *songs* are quite good. That little left-turn chord change at the end of "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" is amazing, and several other "Love You" songs shine through on those simple piano demos.

Absolutely. It just involves hearing beyond the production.

I honestly understand that's hard sometimes. I can't listen to any of the Joe Thomas stuff due to my inability to hear beyond the production.

How ever much people tell me that life suite is up there with Brian's best work, I just can't hear it due to Certain Production Choices Which I Won't Mention.

[KDS]

To be fair, the only things Smiley Smile and Love You are missing are good songs, good production, and good vocals.  

 

To those especially put off by the "sound" of "Love You", the 1976 Brian demo tape (demoing "Love You" and "Adult Child" material) should be ample proof that some of the "Love You" *songs* are quite good. That little left-turn chord change at the end of "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" is amazing, and several other "Love You" songs shine through on those simple piano demos.

Production aside, I'm just not a good fan of the songs.  Many BB related releases over the past 40 years or so are riddled with production issues (which is a shame for a group known for almost perfectly produced material during their prime), but I think it's still pretty easy to tell if the songs are any good or not. 

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

I think it's still pretty easy to tell if the songs are any good or not. 

Sorry, I'm really not being argumentative,  and this is solely in the spirit of discussion but......define good.

Objectively speaking you're really only dealing with form, melody, chord sequence and arrangement. Analytically, a lot of the songs on Love You are equal to any of his other best work when speaking in these terms. Really though it's all subjective, even analytically. You don't like the songs. That's fine. Can you describe why?

Please don't mention lyrics as that has nothing to do with music.

[KDS]

I think it's still pretty easy to tell if the songs are any good or not.  

Sorry, I'm really not being argumentative,  and this is solely in the spirit of discussion but......define good.

Objectively speaking you're really only dealing with form, melody, chord sequence and arrangement. Analytically, a lot of the songs on Love You are equal to any of his other best work when speaking in these terms. Really though it's all subjective, even analytically. You don't like the songs. That's fine. Can you describe why?

Please don't mention lyrics as that has nothing to do with music.

Personally, I don't think the melodies of most of the LY songs measure up to Brian's best work.  

And, I've tried many times to listen to that album, thinking I'm missing something, because it's held in very high regard by so many fans.  But, to my ears, that something just isn't there. 

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

Fair enough.

But do you not think The Night Was So Young on par with You Still Believe In Me melodically.

Or Solar System the equal of Please Let Me Wonder?

I've always thought it's the chord changes and key changes behind the melodies that really made BW's music transcendent.

But someone would have as much difficulty convincing me about any of the recent albums, so I empathise with your position.

[KDS]

Fair enough.

But do you not think The Night Was So Young on par with You Still Believe In Me melodically.

Or Solar System the equal of Please Let Me Wonder?

I've always thought it's the chord changes and key changes behind the melodies that really made BW's music transcendent.

But someone would have as much difficulty convincing me about any of the recent albums, so I empathise with your position.

The Night Was So Young is one of the few songs from LY that I gravitate to, but I wouldn't put it in the same league as You Still Believe In Me. 

Just as I wouldn't put Solar System in there with Please Let Me Wonder. 

But, like you said, as you'll likely never convince me that LY is a great achievement, I'd have a similar time trying to convince you how great TWGMTR is.  Diff'rent strokes. 

[HeyJude]

It's not necessarily the case that "Love You" has intensely twisty-turny melodies. But the chord changes are in some cases quite interesting and unique, and even when they aren't complex, they're immensely ear-catching.

So yeah, I could imagine applying a "Guess I'm Dumb/In the Back of My Mind" sort of arrangement to some of those "Love You" songs; they're similar enough. I can't imagine loving Brian's mid-60s "Today/Summer Days" material and then not just having your jaw hit the floor listening to at least a few of those "Love You" demos.

[HeyJude]

I would also say, if we're lumping together what was going on at the time of "Love You", then the "Adult Child" demos on that same demo tape are also pretty impressive. "It's Over Now" I *would put up against a good hunk of the 60s output, compositionally.

[KDS]

It's not necessarily the case that "Love You" has intensely twisty-turny melodies. But the chord changes are in some cases quite interesting and unique, and even when they aren't complex, they're immensely ear-catching.

So yeah, I could imagine applying a "Guess I'm Dumb/In the Back of My Mind" sort of arrangement to some of those "Love You" songs; they're similar enough. I can't imagine loving Brian's mid-60s "Today/Summer Days" material and then not just having your jaw hit the floor listening to at least a few of those "Love You" demos.

I'll admit there are some interesting chord changes, but to me, that still doesn't mean the songs are that great.

I also think it's unfair to compare almost anything Brian Wilson did what he did from 1963-1967. 

[clack]

I love the songs, vocals and arrangements on LY, but then again I love Guided By Voices and that band's lo-fi, occasionally out-of-tune aesthetic.

LY belongs more to the indie, punk, and New Wave branch of pop than to the classic Beach Boys sound.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Only in your world, which seems to be dominated by a neverending stream of perceived Mike Love trigger moments

You'd be better off if you got used to it instead of getting your panties in a bunch because there's more coming your way, bub.
Question for you, who's putting the gun to your head making you read my posts? Huh? 

It's in the natural flow for people to read all posts in a thread, you're part of a community here and to expect your comments to just be skipped over by some is dichotomous to that. It is unrealistic to expect anyone with an opinion or reaction to sublimate it 100% of the time, and also defeats the whole idea of group conversation to ask that of anyone. Completely narcissistic and possibly sociopathic. Just sayin'....

[KDS]

LY belongs more to the indie, punk, and New Wave branch of pop than to the classic Beach Boys sound.

Agreed, but thats exactly why I dont like the album. 

[thorgil]

Only in your world, which seems to be dominated by a neverending stream of perceived Mike Love trigger moments

You'd be better off if you got used to it instead of getting your panties in a bunch because there's more coming your way, bub.
Question for you, who's putting the gun to your head making you read my posts? Huh? 

It's in the natural flow for people to read all posts in a thread, you're part of a community here and to expect your comments to just be skipped over by some is dichotomous to that. It is unrealistic to expect anyone with an opinion or reaction to sublimate it 100% of the time, and also defeats the whole idea of group conversation to ask that of anyone. Completely narcissistic and possibly sociopathic. Just sayin'....

"Sociopathic" is over the top.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Only in your world, which seems to be dominated by a neverending stream of perceived Mike Love trigger moments

You'd be better off if you got used to it instead of getting your panties in a bunch because there's more coming your way, bub.
Question for you, who's putting the gun to your head making you read my posts? Huh?  

It's in the natural flow for people to read all posts in a thread, you're part of a community here and to expect your comments to just be skipped over by some is dichotomous to that. It is unrealistic to expect anyone with an opinion or reaction to sublimate it 100% of the time, and also defeats the whole idea of group conversation to ask that of anyone. Completely narcissistic and possibly sociopathic. Just sayin'....

"Sociopathic" is over the top.

Maybe, but I said "possibly."  And it's partially a cumulative reaction to many years of reading his posts. How long have you been reading them?

[Seaside Woman]

I would say without a doubt Love You.

It stands on its own and nothing compares to it. I love every note of it and always thought of it as Brian's first solo album.

I can still remember the day I bought it shortly after release. The photographs of Brian and Dennis on the back cover really upset me and I didn't like the front cover at all.

I couldn't wait to get it home and spin the vinyl. It fascinated me endlessly. I played every day for two years.

You don't get many albums like that to the pound.

[Lonely Summer]

I would say without a doubt Love You.

It stands on its own and nothing compares to it. I love every note of it and always thought of it as Brian's first solo album.

I can still remember the day I bought it shortly after release. The photographs of Brian and Dennis on the back cover really upset me and I didn't like the front cover at all.

I couldn't wait to get it home and spin the vinyl. It fascinated me endlessly. I played every day for two years.

You don't get many albums like that to the pound.

People either love it or hate it. I fall into the latter camp. Can't stand the amateurish production, the off-vocals, or the juvenine lyrics.
Smiley, on the other hand, has beautiful vocals, and some very won-wonderful musical ideas.

[thorgil]

I love both Smiley Smile and Love You. Also love the unreleased Adult Child. But then, I always preferred "left-field" Brian, and wish there were so much more of that.

[blueeyedtreefrog]

Most of my friends know how much I love the beach boys, so they are used to listening to Love You at my place. And luckily people seem to like it a lot too. The album is funny (johhny carson, solar system) and poignant (the night was so young) and it anticipates a lot of stuff musically. Also, there's that beautiful Patti Smith piece about it. In my opinion, it is the last of their great albums.

Smiley smile is another one of our favorites here. Love the lo-fi laid-back trippy psychedelicate intensely melodic feeling.

And, yes, also a great fan of the unreleased Adult Child - I'm with thorgil, who said he likes "left-field" Brian.

So, I don't know which albums are the most divisive, but I just don't listen to a lot of their post-77 music.

[thorgil]

Only in your world, which seems to be dominated by a neverending stream of perceived Mike Love trigger moments

You'd be better off if you got used to it instead of getting your panties in a bunch because there's more coming your way, bub.
Question for you, who's putting the gun to your head making you read my posts? Huh?  

It's in the natural flow for people to read all posts in a thread, you're part of a community here and to expect your comments to just be skipped over by some is dichotomous to that. It is unrealistic to expect anyone with an opinion or reaction to sublimate it 100% of the time, and also defeats the whole idea of group conversation to ask that of anyone. Completely narcissistic and possibly sociopathic. Just sayin'....

"Sociopathic" is over the top.

Maybe, but I said "possibly."  And it's partially a cumulative reaction to many years of reading his posts. How long have you been reading them?

Quite long, lol. Usually I find them funny. But then I'm probably biased - see my signature.

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

In my opinion, it is the last of their great albums.