Wind Chimes Chorus Lyrics and Prelude Melody (starting on Pg 5 bottom)

[c-man]

In June the With Me Tonight session - This was recorded at a Vegetables session (I don't have TSS with me to check on that), but are you implying that With Me Tonight was going to be a Bside for a Vegetables single?  Because by June the idea (in April) of releasing Vegetables as the single had been abandoned and Heroes was the planned single, finished in June.

By the way loving your enthusiasm for all things Smile!!

The June '67 sessions for "With Me Tonight" were logged with the AFM as "Vegetables" as the title (I think one of them even read "Vegetables (You're With Me Tonight)". As to why, I couldn't say.

[Bicyclerider]

In June the With Me Tonight session - This was recorded at a Vegetables session (I don't have TSS with me to check on that), but are you implying that With Me Tonight was going to be a Bside for a Vegetables single?  Because by June the idea (in April) of releasing Vegetables as the single had been abandoned and Heroes was the planned single, finished in June.

By the way loving your enthusiasm for all things Smile!!

The June '67 sessions for "With Me Tonight" were logged with the AFM as "Vegetables" as the title (I think one of them even read "Vegetables (You're With Me Tonight)". As to why, I couldn't say.

That's very interesting.  To me that suggests With Me Tonight was to be a section of Vegetables - either a middle 8 or break or a "tag."  The three minute version though it's hard to see what that could be other than its' own track, unless Brian got carried away and it was a fade that went longer than it would have appeared on the song.

[c-man]

In June the With Me Tonight session - This was recorded at a Vegetables session (I don't have TSS with me to check on that), but are you implying that With Me Tonight was going to be a Bside for a Vegetables single?  Because by June the idea (in April) of releasing Vegetables as the single had been abandoned and Heroes was the planned single, finished in June.

By the way loving your enthusiasm for all things Smile!!

The June '67 sessions for "With Me Tonight" were logged with the AFM as "Vegetables" as the title (I think one of them even read "Vegetables (You're With Me Tonight)". As to why, I couldn't say.

That's very interesting.  To me that suggests With Me Tonight was to be a section of Vegetables - either a middle 8 or break or a "tag."  The three minute version though it's hard to see what that could be other than its' own track, unless Brian got carried away and it was a fade that went longer than it would have appeared on the song.

To be honest, I think Brian's creative vision was jumping around all over the place in those days...anything could have been part of anything else in his mind, and the "set list" was constantly changing...even after SMiLE was officially scrubbed, he kept a vision for it in his mind for awhile.

[guitarfool2002]

In June the With Me Tonight session - This was recorded at a Vegetables session (I don't have TSS with me to check on that), but are you implying that With Me Tonight was going to be a Bside for a Vegetables single?  Because by June the idea (in April) of releasing Vegetables as the single had been abandoned and Heroes was the planned single, finished in June.

By the way loving your enthusiasm for all things Smile!!

The June '67 sessions for "With Me Tonight" were logged with the AFM as "Vegetables" as the title (I think one of them even read "Vegetables (You're With Me Tonight)". As to why, I couldn't say.

That's very interesting.  To me that suggests With Me Tonight was to be a section of Vegetables - either a middle 8 or break or a "tag."  The three minute version though it's hard to see what that could be other than its' own track, unless Brian got carried away and it was a fade that went longer than it would have appeared on the song.

To be honest, I think Brian's creative vision was jumping around all over the place in those days...anything could have been part of anything else in his mind, and the "set list" was constantly changing...even after SMiLE was officially scrubbed, he kept a vision for it in his mind for awhile.

I think it could be as simple as putting Vegetables into the same create-by-edit template he had used on the singles starting with GV, then all the work on Heroes focused for this discussion on the "finished" Chuck Britz cantina edit, and moving into Smiley Smile. For one, there are "test edits" of both Vegetables and Heroes where Brian is playing with the sequencing of various sections. Then the Smile version of Vegetables, the full-on version as appeared on the GV box set, has "Do A Lot" in there for one example. And the released Smiley version has the new jug segment, and then a segment from the Smile sessions, fully orchestrated (I know that you'll feel better...). Similar to the other "single", Heroes that went through the same process.

We know both Heroes and Vegetables were reported as upcoming singles, on and off of course. So With Me Tonight could very well have been tried as a segment of Vegetables and labeled as such, just as Do A Lot and whatever else Brian was recording and plugging in, working within the same template he did with GV.

[leetwall97]

Hmmm...it's been 5 years since I was able to listen to all the existing SMiLE tapes and compile notes for the sessionography, but from my increasingly hazy memory, I don't exactly recall it that way...looking at the sessionography, I'd written that the CIFOTM session from 10/11/66 was "logged as a CABIN ESSENCE session", meaning that's the title on the AFM contract for the date. I just checked, and the tape box track sheet is labeled "CHILD IS FATHER OF THE MAN'", not 'CABIN ESSENCE", with notation indicating three sections: Chorus Basic, Verse, and Bridge. Why did the AFM contract list a completely different song title? Who knows.

I listed the personnel from the tracking session as below, with the annotation "o/d" indicating an overdub:

Tack piano: Brian Wilson (chorus & verse)
Grand piano: Brian Wilson (bridge)
Electric rhythm guitar (w/tremelo): Carl Wilson (verse)
Electric baritone lead guitar (w/fuzztone in chorus, w/tic-tac in verse): Bill Pitman (chorus & verse)
Fender bass: Carol Kaye
Upright bass (arco in chorus): Jimmy Bond
Trumpet: Ollie Mitchell
Snare drum: Brian Wilson ? (o/d) (chorus)
Sleighbells: Carl Wilson ? (o/d) (chorus)

So, I'm pretty sure the guitars were played on the basic track, although the drum and percussion parts were overdubbed - also, I'm pretty sure the piano is still there (just somewhat distant due to how it was mic'd).

Oh okay I see. Bill Pitman and Carl's guitar parts must've been o/ds for the Verse and Chorus on the 11th. And the reason why AFM documented this as a Cabin Essence section is because the boys recorded vocals for Home on the Range from 8 pm to 2 am.

I'm pretty sure the guitars you're referring to were played during the basic tracking...what makes you think they were overdubs?

I'm sorry I mixed up my info. The Guitar overdubs by Carl were for the October 3rd recording of Home on the Range. No idea why it says Bill was there. Was the tag to CFM recorded on the same day as the rest of CFM?

[leetwall97]

In June the With Me Tonight session - This was recorded at a Vegetables session (I don't have TSS with me to check on that), but are you implying that With Me Tonight was going to be a Bside for a Vegetables single?  Because by June the idea (in April) of releasing Vegetables as the single had been abandoned and Heroes was the planned single, finished in June.

So here's the deal with that. With Me Tonight was meant for the Vega-Tables single as some sort of insert for either Side A or Side B. Side B was Wonderful version 3. It's a piano track recorded in the key of A, and it's the first version of Wonderful to contain pauses. I believe the pauses were meant to be filled in by either With Me Tonight, or Mama Says. Perhaps both.

I'm working on a mix at the moment...
https://vimeo.com/183142497

The biggest problem is figuring out where to put WMT. There's the fast version of WMT with Mike and Brian doing lead, then there's the slow version (contained on the Box set) of the group singing lead. And then there's the Vega-Tables insert version included in the video above. Was that version for VT? And if so where? Or was it for Wonderful?

Either way, it's best to keep the Single version of the song confused. I've yet to go and check out the Album version which seems pretty straight forward (except for the CFM part). I'm only missing one piece, and it's the Part 4 Insert with Marilyn singing lead.

By the way loving your enthusiasm for all things Smile!!

Thanks a lot man! It's nice to know that there's others out there!

[c-man]

Hmmm...it's been 5 years since I was able to listen to all the existing SMiLE tapes and compile notes for the sessionography, but from my increasingly hazy memory, I don't exactly recall it that way...looking at the sessionography, I'd written that the CIFOTM session from 10/11/66 was "logged as a CABIN ESSENCE session", meaning that's the title on the AFM contract for the date. I just checked, and the tape box track sheet is labeled "CHILD IS FATHER OF THE MAN'", not 'CABIN ESSENCE", with notation indicating three sections: Chorus Basic, Verse, and Bridge. Why did the AFM contract list a completely different song title? Who knows.

I listed the personnel from the tracking session as below, with the annotation "o/d" indicating an overdub:

Tack piano: Brian Wilson (chorus & verse)
Grand piano: Brian Wilson (bridge)
Electric rhythm guitar (w/tremelo): Carl Wilson (verse)
Electric baritone lead guitar (w/fuzztone in chorus, w/tic-tac in verse): Bill Pitman (chorus & verse)
Fender bass: Carol Kaye
Upright bass (arco in chorus): Jimmy Bond
Trumpet: Ollie Mitchell
Snare drum: Brian Wilson ? (o/d) (chorus)
Sleighbells: Carl Wilson ? (o/d) (chorus)

So, I'm pretty sure the guitars were played on the basic track, although the drum and percussion parts were overdubbed - also, I'm pretty sure the piano is still there (just somewhat distant due to how it was mic'd).

Oh okay I see. Bill Pitman and Carl's guitar parts must've been o/ds for the Verse and Chorus on the 11th. And the reason why AFM documented this as a Cabin Essence section is because the boys recorded vocals for Home on the Range from 8 pm to 2 am.

I'm pretty sure the guitars you're referring to were played during the basic tracking...what makes you think they were overdubs?

I'm sorry I mixed up my info. The Guitar overdubs by Carl were for the October 3rd recording of Home on the Range. No idea why it says Bill was there. Was the tag to CFM recorded on the same day as the rest of CFM?

Uh, no...there were no overdubs on "Cabin Essence" at all (other than the vocals, that is). The track was recorded in sections, much like other SMiLE selections...but Carl and Bill Pitman both played "live" with the rest of the band. And as far as I know, the three pieces of "Cabin Essence" (those being the "Home On The Range" verse, the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" chorus, and the "Have You Seen The Grand Coolie" tag) were the only things recorded on October 3rd.

As for "Child Is Father"...there were two versions cut in October...the first (on 10/7) did have Bill Pitman adding a second fuzzy baritone lead part as an overdub, while Carl played castanet...but the first fuzzy baritone lead guitar was on the basic track. The second version (taped 10/11) had Carl and Pitman both playing guitars on the basic track. ANd again, both versions were recorded in sections (chorus and verse on 10/7, chorus, verse, and bridge on 10/11). Then, there was the third version (from 4/10/67, recorded at the same session as the third version of "Wonderful" and vocal & veggie chomping overdubs on the verse and rough chorus attempt on "Vega-Tables".

[leetwall97]

As for "Child Is Father"...there were two versions cut in October...the first (on 10/7) did have Bill Pitman adding a second fuzzy baritone lead part as an overdub, while Carl played castanet...but the first fuzzy baritone lead guitar was on the basic track. The second version (taped 10/11) had Carl and Pitman both playing guitars on the basic track. ANd again, both versions were recorded in sections (chorus and verse on 10/7, chorus, verse, and bridge on 10/11). Then, there was the third version (from 4/10/67, recorded at the same session as the third version of "Wonderful" and vocal & veggie chomping overdubs on the verse and rough chorus attempt on "Vega-Tables".

Holy cow! The CFM piano thing was recorded on the 10th too! That might be the insert for Wonderful version 3!

And I just checked, it's a prefect fit. Ending on the G# and going into the A... thanks so much for the insight!

Btw, do you know when the different versions of With Me Tonight were recorded? The slow, fast and Vega-Table versions?

[c-man]

As for "Child Is Father"...there were two versions cut in October...the first (on 10/7) did have Bill Pitman adding a second fuzzy baritone lead part as an overdub, while Carl played castanet...but the first fuzzy baritone lead guitar was on the basic track. The second version (taped 10/11) had Carl and Pitman both playing guitars on the basic track. ANd again, both versions were recorded in sections (chorus and verse on 10/7, chorus, verse, and bridge on 10/11). Then, there was the third version (from 4/10/67, recorded at the same session as the third version of "Wonderful" and vocal & veggie chomping overdubs on the verse and rough chorus attempt on "Vega-Tables".

Holy cow! The CFM piano thing was recorded on the 10th too! That might be the insert for Wonderful version 3!

And I just checked, it's a prefect fit. Ending on the G# and going into the A... thanks so much for the insight!

Btw, do you know when the different versions of With Me Tonight were recorded? The slow, fast and Vega-Table versions?

The only things recorded on the 10th of October were vocals for "Wind Chimes" (the group tag vocals, and Carl's lead vocals). Maybe I confused you with "10/7" and "10/11" above - people outside of the U.S. would read those dates as "July 10th" and "November 10th", but here in America they're read as "October 7th" and "October 11th", and those are the correct dates - sorry for any misunderstanding there!

As for "With Me Tonight" - I believe the "fast" version may be from June 5th '67 (two sessions, at Western and United), the "Vega-Table" version is from June 6th-7th at Western, and the "slow" version (as released on Smiley Smile is from June 30th at Brian's home studio on Bellagio.

[guitarfool2002]

As for "With Me Tonight" - I believe the "fast" version may be from June 5th '67 (two sessions, at Western and United), the "Vega-Table" version is from June 6th-7th at Western, and the "slow" version (as released on Smiley Smile is from June 30th at Brian's home studio on Bellagio.

Another example of the timeline that I keep pointing to as possibly crucial to figuring out what happened in the big picture...The band returns from Europe, sessions while they were in Europe were being held at the "pro" studios, first week of June, still being held at the "pro" studios as was done before, then in those next weeks they hauled rental gear into Brian's house and started recording in a living room with a Gates Dualux radio broadcast console. Something major obviously happened to facilitate this complete and radical change in the process after the Boys returned.

[leetwall97]

As for "Child Is Father"...there were two versions cut in October...the first (on 10/7) did have Bill Pitman adding a second fuzzy baritone lead part as an overdub, while Carl played castanet...but the first fuzzy baritone lead guitar was on the basic track. The second version (taped 10/11) had Carl and Pitman both playing guitars on the basic track. ANd again, both versions were recorded in sections (chorus and verse on 10/7, chorus, verse, and bridge on 10/11). Then, there was the third version (from 4/10/67, recorded at the same session as the third version of "Wonderful" and vocal & veggie chomping overdubs on the verse and rough chorus attempt on "Vega-Tables".

Holy cow! The CFM piano thing was recorded on the 10th too! That might be the insert for Wonderful version 3!

And I just checked, it's a prefect fit. Ending on the G# and going into the A... thanks so much for the insight!

Btw, do you know when the different versions of With Me Tonight were recorded? The slow, fast and Vega-Table versions?

The only things recorded on the 10th of October were vocals for "Wind Chimes" (the group tag vocals, and Carl's lead vocals). Maybe I confused you with "10/7" and "10/11" above - people outside of the U.S. would read those dates as "July 10th" and "November 10th", but here in America they're read as "October 7th" and "October 11th", and those are the correct dates - sorry for any misunderstanding there!

As for "With Me Tonight" - I believe the "fast" version may be from June 5th '67 (two sessions, at Western and United), the "Vega-Table" version is from June 6th-7th at Western, and the "slow" version (as released on Smiley Smile is from June 30th at Brian's home studio on Bellagio.

Oh no, I meant the April 10th CFM piano tag with the "Walk Child" vocals. My bad! Should've been more specific. But I believe that was the Wonderful version 3 Insert.

And thanks for the With Me Tonight Dates. But the slow one I mean is the one with the harpsichord and Mike singing lead, but I guess they recorded that on the same day as the fast one.

And this is all very delicate, trying to sort out Smile recordings from Smiley Smile ones.

[guitarfool2002]

Seems that Brian decided to make Smiley on a whim.

This kind of statement: Have you chosen to ignore everything written about the subject, including what I just wrote in this thread? 

Check May into June 1967 then check Nick Grillo's comments on what happened, along with other reports I posted here this past year, and tell me it was a "whim" that they changed entirely the recording methods Brian had been using for several years and to great success.

It feels like Mujon came back... 

[leetwall97]

Seems that Brian decided to make Smiley on a whim.

This kind of statement: Have you chosen to ignore everything written about the subject, including what I just wrote in this thread?  

Check May into June 1967 then check Nick Grillo's comments on what happened, along with other reports I posted here this past year, and tell me it was a "whim" that they changed entirely the recording methods Brian had been using for several years and to great success.

It feels like Mujon came back...  

Sorry. I shouldn't've been snotty.

[guitarfool2002]

Seems that Brian decided to make Smiley on a whim.

This kind of statement: Have you chosen to ignore everything written about the subject, including what I just wrote in this thread?  

Check May into June 1967 then check Nick Grillo's comments on what happened, along with other reports I posted here this past year, and tell me it was a "whim" that they changed entirely the recording methods Brian had been using for several years and to great success.

It feels like Mujon came back...  

It was just a off-topic comment man. I wasn't prepared to defend my belief in the claim (not sure that I even did). All I want to do is straighten out the With Me Tonight sessions. And yes, I have chosen to ignore everything about the subject simply because I don't care.  

You don't care, yet you make definitive statements and comments about other topics like With Me Tonight's place in this song or that, and other definitive statements which the session dates and notes could easily prove or disprove as if they're fact? It reminded me of quite a few posters like Mujon in the past whose well-meaning enthusiasm sometimes came off as arrogant as in saying "THIS is what With Me Tonight would have been" rather than offering an opinion as such...Maybe taking a minute and going to the archives to rehash some of these details is just a recommendation, before commenting along the lines of saying certain pieces of audio were "missing" then coming back later and mentioning that they were released on various boots or whatever.

If you make a statement, that Smiley Smile was Brian deciding on a whim to do things that way, it's ignoring everything that has been debated or discussed about the topic here and elsewhere for years. And if you don't care, then don't make such a statement and expect no one to chime in to offer a rebuttal.

Like this from January:

Take it all into consideration, my two posts above, the one with the May 67 quotes, and you see band members saying they want to give the public a good product on their terms, not be rushed, etc., some answers specific to the Heroes single, maybe implications for the Smile album too even though Bruce is the one most openly enthusiastic about "Smile" in his answers. The band is in Europe on tour, Brian holds sessions in line with "Smile" working methods he had been using. Band returns, does about a week of sessions, one at Sound, others at Western, mostly focused on Vegetables (which was where they left off immediately before the tour in mid April) and also With Me Tonight and Cool Cool Water.

If Taylor's July '67 PR piece is accurate, *something* happened between when the band returned to the US, did the week of "pro studio" sessions, then began recording at Brian's home.

In that exact period of time, possibly (and probably), Taylor's report (July 67) described this:

"In one inspired decision, (Nick) Grillo and the Beach Boys were able to a. Make use of Brian Wilson's new house, b. restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions and c. remove the problem of availability of commercial studios. They built their own 8-track studio in the Spanish house."

The part in bold, "restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions", what are the implications there? Whose attitude? What exactly was restructured?

Whatever the case, they did begin recording at Brian's house and the album they recorded there had for the first time the credit "Produced by The Beach Boys". Does that coincide with another circa November 1966 (when they arrived in Britain from Stockholm) Alan Walsh interview (subtitled 'Are the five touring Beach Boys merely puppets of sound genius Brian Wilson') with Carl where he talks about the band's contributions and addresses criticism that the group isn't the same without Brian, and defends against the criticisms being leveled then at the live sound of the touring group versus the records. That criticism got worse in May 67, some of the reviews of certain shows were harsh on the band's sound, similar to the previous year but with even more negativity directed at their shows.

Was there something that broke the dam when the band returned from that May 1967 tour? A case could be made that there was, because within weeks they were recording at Brian's house with a piecemeal rented studio setup, with totally new songs and radically different textures and arrangements, and all of this coming after (if Taylor got it right in July 67) a restructuring of attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions.


Two questions:
1 - Is there an answer for why Brian was still recording as he had been with all previous Smile tracks in mid-May 1967 while the band was on tour and in spite of the band's press agent publicly declaring the album D.O.A.?

2 - Can anyone offer anything factual or published that sheds light on what happened those first two weeks of June within the band?

If the answer is "no" to the second one, it's all speculation. But we know what things were like immediately before, and we know what things were like immediately after, and Taylor in July 67 did shed some light on those changes, specifically the decision to use Brian's house to work on the album. The entire game had changed, including future production credits on the music.

[leetwall97]

That's very interesting.  To me that suggests With Me Tonight was to be a section of Vegetables - either a middle 8 or break or a "tag."  The three minute version though it's hard to see what that could be other than its' own track, unless Brian got carried away and it was a fade that went longer than it would have appeared on the song.

I think the three minute one might've been either a B-Side thing or just a long take for the insert like you suggested. The Chorus' for VT repeat like 5 or 6 times on the tapes. That might explain the 3 minute With Me Tonight version. Btw, the fast and slow versions of WTM I'm talking about are all basically about 3 minutes.

According to Derek Taylor, the B-Side was Wonderful version 3, so I think With Me Tonight was an insert for either VT, Wonderful or perhaps both! The Child Is Father of the Man piano bit with the "Walk Child" lyrics were recorded on the same day as Wonderful version 3, so I do believe it was meant as the insert for the piece. However, that does leave use with the 2-bar pause after the 1st verse. The one with Brian tapping his foot and silently counting. Maybe that would've had a With Me Tonight Vocal, or perhaps the "Na na na naa-na-na-naaaa" thing from the Smiley Version of Wonderful. I'd love to hear your impressions! I'm thinking about moving this over to a new thread though

[leetwall97]

We all have our own ideas for H&V, and the last thing we need is another thread to bicker and argue over what Brian meant by doing this and that. However, I think it would be nice if we did have at least one of the Singles for the Smile era to listen to. One that we can construct and agree on. And I don't mean to pick on us since Brian was changing things around etc. But Vega-Tables is a simple song, so let's figure out the mysteries behind With Me Tonight, Child Is Father of the Man Part 4 and Wonderful Version 3!

[leetwall97]

I'd like to present my theory on Side B first. Derek Taylor said that Wonderful would be the B Side and that the boys did it at the piano. Well that's version 3, but we're missing the insert. However, it was pointed out to me by the user c-man, that the piano take of Child Is Father of the Man with the "walk-child" vocals, was recorded on the same day as the 3rd version of Wonderful was (April the 10th). In my theory, I believe that was the insert for this version of Wonderful. In this video, I present how I believe Brian would've mixed the 2 together for the B-Side of Vega-Tables.

https://vimeo.com/183231269

[leetwall97]

Another HUGE mystery about the Vega-Tables single, is the timing of the recordings of With Me Tonight. Mostly, these takes were recorded in June or April (please don't yell at me if I'm wrong). Most think they were to be used as either an insert or maybe even the B-side of Vega-tables. I've made a video which contains the 3 versions recorded here:

https://vimeo.com/183229787

The 1st Version is on Harpsichord and contains and electric bass. Mike Love sings the lead on this one.

The 2nd Version is the one found on the Smile Sessions Box set. The whole group sings lead here. The Bass is a stand up.

The 3rd Version is interesting. It's recorded on the same bass used on the 2nd Chorus for Vega-Tables, and this version uses the same background vocals found on the Vega-Tables verse. Another interesting thing is that they use one of the clappers found on the 2nd Chorus right as the take stops (I wish not to imply, just state my opinion [I'll remove it if desired]).

(Please note that none of these versions of With Me Tonight are in order of their recording dates. I apologize for the inconvenience and any confusion that may result from it)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Why are you posting multiple times in your own posts rather than just editing the original?

[leetwall97]

Why are you posting multiple times in your own posts rather than just editing the original?

I don't wish to appear as a tsunami of words.

[HeroesandVillains]

I think vegetables would have at least had Mission Pak because it fits so well with the bridge

[leetwall97]

I think vegetables would have at least had Mission Pak because it fits so well with the bridge

Define bridge.

[HeroesandVillains]

I think vegetables would have at least had Mission Pak because it fits so well with the bridge

Define bridge.

 


Mama says/Eat a lot

Unless that's the tag in which case that then

[leetwall97]

I think vegetables would have at least had Mission Pak because it fits so well with the bridge

Define bridge.

 


Mama says/Eat a lot

Unless that's the tag in which case that then

That's the chorus. Which one? The slow one or the fast one? Or none in specific

[HeroesandVillains]

Given it's more polished form, I'll say the version used in the Smile Sessions mix