Why do you hate Mike Love?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Iian Lee. Thread originator (his 4th post on this board)

No posts since.

Last active August 6 (about page 4 of this thread, now 25 pages)

Is this some kind of board record?

This is probably the most ridiculous part. Brand new member, drops a bomb, doesn't engage in the conversation. Basically, sitting back maniacally laughing, "Yes, yes, fight amongst yourselves."

I said that before, ya dumb dago!

[guitarfool2002]

We can't, he quit not long after the NPP Police gave him endless sh*t for the thread.

Better way to word it:

We can't, he quit.

[Mike's Beard]

You said he didn't?

[guitarfool2002]

You said he didn't?

Whatever you say. Once you figure out what you're trying to say, get back to us.

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly, there is no argument.

[Mike's Beard]

You said he didn't?

Whatever you say. Once you figure out what you're trying to say, get back to us.

Dear God, I said he quit not long after the NPP Police incident. You said that wasn't the case.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

[Pretty Funky]

 
NPP
 PD

[Andrew G. Doe]

That strange grinding noise you're hearing ?

That's the bottom of a barrel being scraped...

[Don Malcolm]

Andrew, I'm beginning to think that maybe Lorren Daro should enter this thread...

 

(ducking)

[guitarfool2002]

That strange grinding noise you're hearing ?

That's the bottom of a barrel being scraped...

The noise you heard was me scraping the sh*t off the soles of my shoes after reading some of the stuff posted on this board today. It seemed to be thicker than usual for some reason.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Andrew, I'm beginning to think that maybe Lorren Daro should enter this thread...

 

(ducking)

You may have a point - some variation from the usual FS&T would be welcome. Then we could rip him to shreds again. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

That strange grinding noise you're hearing ?

That's the bottom of a barrel being scraped...

The noise you heard was me scraping the sh*t off the soles of my shoes after reading some of the stuff posted on this board today. It seemed to be thicker than usual for some reason.

Thing is, unlike all but two of the rest of us, you could do something constructive towards rectifying this latest clusterfuck. Freedom of speech doesn't confer the right to be a complete asshole, but some embrace it anyway.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Question:    Who is your favourite Beach Boy
Brian Wilson    - 92 (62.6%)
Carl Wilson      - 18 (12.2%)
Dennis Wilson  - 19 (12.9%)
Al Jardine        - 10 (6.8%)
Mike Love         - 5 (3.4%)
Bruce Johnston - 3 (2%)
Other                - 0 (0%)
   
Total Voters: 143

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,3637.100.html

Hate is strong word but not well liked, yeah.

[Pacific Ocean Blue]

Question:    Who is your favourite Beach Boy
Brian Wilson    - 92 (62.6%)
Carl Wilson      - 18 (12.2%)
Dennis Wilson  - 19 (12.9%)
Al Jardine        - 10 (6.8%)
Mike Love         - 5 (3.4%)
Bruce Johnston - 3 (2%)
Other                - 0 (0%)
   
Total Voters: 143


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,3637.100.html

Hate is strong word but not well liked, yeah.

Dennis now has 20 votes 

[guitarfool2002]

That strange grinding noise you're hearing ?

That's the bottom of a barrel being scraped...

The noise you heard was me scraping the sh*t off the soles of my shoes after reading some of the stuff posted on this board today. It seemed to be thicker than usual for some reason.

Thing is, unlike all but two of the rest of us, you could do something constructive towards rectifying this latest clusterfuck. Freedom of speech doesn't confer the right to be a complete asshole, but some embrace it anyway.

Should there also be a goal to get the facts straight, make sure the way something happened is the way it's being retold, etc.? I'll be touching on that one in a moment. Best way to fly as a general rule: If someone doesn't know the facts, it's best not to argue with those who do. Again, not specific to this thread but to comments made recently in this thread.

I've gone over the whole freedom of speech/open forum issue numerous times in the past, publicly and privately. This is an open forum, and look at how many come here and post and come back later to post and so on...for all the dust-ups and squabbles it just keeps rolling along.

My example earlier was valid. The week a new BW album comes out, and fans want to talk about it here, a thread appears that seems to be collecting the negative and lukewarm reviews from Malaysia to a junior college paper somewhere in Australia, and a number of people start calling it out. They also call out the motives of the one who started the thread, mentioning recent posts that would suggest (to them) a less than honorable motive for posting these). It turned into a real dust-up, most posting there were saying the motives weren't as pure as advertised. Full disclosure, I was one of them.

Was it locked? Should it have been?

Simple question. But again, instead I get an argument yesterday about that topic being focused on the material versus the person, etc. OK, fine. What if Mr. Iain Lee was indeed a writer doing research for an article or something else which he is writing and genuinely wanted to solicit opinions about why there are fans of the Beach Boys who to outsiders seem to hate Mike Love? Is it at least as legitimate as asking why there are Van Halen fans who hate Sammy Hagar if you're researching an article on Van Halen?

Or what if his motives are indeed completely nefarious or underhanded, and it's not legitimate? Thing is, can we make that call? Was the posting of all those NPP reviews that triggered more than a few eyebrows being raised back in April considered nefarious enough that it should have been locked down before it got beyond page one, in retrospect? If majority ruled, it would have been unceremoniously dumped in the garbage bin before it got to page 2, and before another thread that got lumped in with it (I believe accidentally) got started up too.

Can't have it both ways. I caught heat for calling out one of the "new" posters whose first entries into the community here was to post what seemed to be nothing but criticisms of Brian Wilson. I should have given him or her the benefit of the doubt, I guess was what people were charging. OK, fine. Now we get on the opposite side of the coin people calling out posters with low post counts and new signups for what they post, suggesting they're here to stir up trouble instead of participate?

So which is it? When the board was hit by these cadres of new accounts or low-post members who were railing against Brian Wilson or whatever else in the "this album fuckin' sucks" level of intelligent discourse, I had to give them the benefit of the doubt, right? But now similar cases going as far as the OP of this thread who actually is a known, real person with a track record, we don't give them the same benefit of the doubt as the "the album sucks" kind of crew?

It's a balancing act. At the same time it can't be had both ways.

[Cam Mott]

That strange grinding noise you're hearing ?

That's the bottom of a barrel being scraped...

The noise you heard was me scraping the sh*t off the soles of my shoes after reading some of the stuff posted on this board today. It seemed to be thicker than usual for some reason.

Thing is, unlike all but two of the rest of us, you could do something constructive towards rectifying this latest clusterfuck. Freedom of speech doesn't confer the right to be a complete asshole, but some embrace it anyway.

A lot of shoes need to be scrapped I'd say.

[guitarfool2002]

Addressing this to The Cincinnati Kid and Mike's Beard:

As I just wrote earlier, it's best to know what the facts are before trying to argue them with someone who actually does know. Argue it til you're blue in the face, but it won't change the fact that you simply don't seem to know what did or didn't actually happen, yet are speaking as if you do. The way both of you were talking, it seemed like you either knew personally or had been speaking to that person who is no longer on the board, yet the facts were not lining up with what happened.

Cincinnati Kid:

Why does it have to be about Brian?  Why couldn't he just be concerned that it was getting bad reviews?  Again, your fellow moderator even agreed with him.  That OP's posting history shows there is no agenda at all. 

The original "reviews" thread is still open and available to view. Read through it and the follow-up that got lumped in with it. That's available too. In that thread, you'll see exactly what played out, who said what etc. And there was what looked to be a pretty wide majority saying the exact opposite of your "no agenda at all line" citing the same posting history. Two versions of the same story? Or more people seeing that issue completely opposite of your own opinions? It's funny that months later you cite a posting history that was the same point the majority of those posting there used to suggest the purpose of that thread was less than positive.

It's all there, read it. And we had a case where a majority of those posting there were questioning the motives of the person starting the thread just as was done here in this one, whether it's about a person or the album or whatever else.

Get the facts straight before getting into the "nice try" territory. Some of us here perfected those tactics years ago and can spot them a mile away in a dense fog.

Mike's Beard:

We can't, he quit not long after the NPP Police gave him endless sh*t for the thread.

That's what he told you, I assume?

I'm guessing he quit.

Or maybe he woke up one morning after being a poster on here for many years and just randomly decided he didn't like The Beach Boys no more?

Facts: The account was closed May 29th or in the days surrounding it. The so-called "NPP Police" thread stalled out in mid-April. Unless "long after" means six weeks or so in message board standards, I'd say 6 weeks is a decent amount of time to keep posting and logging on before closing up shop.

Fact: You spoke as if you were in contact, or were pals, I don't know what's up. That's why I asked if he told you that. The actual "reasons" I saw and read and heard were actually posted quite openly and publicly. And beyond that, there were issues that went beyond and into some wild places, if I may say so. Not good.

I will say this non-issue of the "NPP Police" meant nothing. Neither did the supposed thread where these NPP Police came in swinging imaginary truncheons and drove anyone off the board after posting negative reviews.

It's fine to support a mate whose opinions and ideas you agree with, but at least get the facts in order, especially before trying to tell the rest of the community something that isn't true.

[Mike's Beard]

Fact: You spoke as if you were in contact, or were pals,

I did no such thing. I said he quit. I don't recall anything in his final posts to suggest anything banworthy, so that was a reasonable assumption to make (unless posts have been deleted by Mods). One minute he was here, the next he was listed as a 'guest'.

[JK]

Question:    Who is your favourite Beach Boy
Brian Wilson    - 92 (62.6%)
Carl Wilson      - 18 (12.2%)
Dennis Wilson  - 19 (12.9%)
Al Jardine        - 10 (6.8%)
Mike Love         - 5 (3.4%)
Bruce Johnston - 3 (2%)
Other                - 0 (0%)
   
Total Voters: 143


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,3637.100.html

Hate is strong word but not well liked, yeah.

Dennis now has 20 votes 

And Mike now has 6. 

[Smilin Ed H]

Liking him less than Brian doesn't mean you necessarily hate him.

If you're a member of the NPp Police do you get to wear a hat and a badge? 

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Question:    Who is your favourite Beach Boy
Brian Wilson    - 92 (62.6%)
Carl Wilson      - 18 (12.2%)
Dennis Wilson  - 19 (12.9%)
Al Jardine        - 10 (6.8%)
Mike Love         - 5 (3.4%)
Bruce Johnston - 3 (2%)
Other                - 0 (0%)
   
Total Voters: 143


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,3637.100.html

Hate is strong word but not well liked, yeah.

Dennis now has 20 votes 

And Brian has 93

[GhostyTMRS]

What if Mr. Iain Lee was indeed a writer doing research for an article or something else which he is writing and genuinely wanted to solicit opinions about why there are fans of the Beach Boys who to outsiders seem to hate Mike Love?
[/quote]

He is. He's also a radio personality on the BBC and a contributor to Record Collector magazine. Very active in the Monkees fan community and a swell guy. I doubt he was prepared for the den of vipers he accidentally kicked up here (although this thread is certainly packed with good quotes to use in his article). 

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

No armchair quarterbacking, I made the third post in this thread.  Threads made to call out specific members of the band are useless and idiotic.  Yeah there was some good info in this thread, maybe a couple pages worth?  Someone could have made a separate thread like you did with that lawsuit Mike had. 

As mentioned, some would say devoting a thread to reposting negative reviews the weeks after a new album got released and including such journalistic powerhouses as a student newspaper from Australia among them was useless and idiotic as well, should that have been stopped before it got started as well? Maybe so.

No, because that is about the material, not the person.  If Ian wanted to come back and create a thread titled "Why do you hate SIP" I'd be have no problem with it.

Oh, so there is a difference? Do you really think the purpose of dredging up negative reviews and reposting them here was about the material more than it was about the person who made the album?

As far as Ian's original intent, let's take it further and see if he gets the benefit of the doubt. What if there was a music writer who was researching an article about The Beatles and wanted to know why fans hate Yoko Ono? Or why KISS fans hate Gene Simmons? How would that writer go about addressing it to a community of fans who would most likely be the best sources of information, if the purpose was to actually find out why from the fans themselves?

There was a story about a fan of Slash who went to one of Axl Rose's GnR shows wearing a Slash t-shirt, Axl spotted him and went berzerk on the guy. Again, benefit of the doubt, what if a writer doing an article wanted to find out where that hostility came from, or why some fans either hate Slash or Axl, who better to ask than the fans if you want to hear opinions?

That thread was created three days after the album came out, but nice try.  Billy even agreed with the OP.  There were a lot of no name sites that gave it good reviews, too.  

There's plenty of stuff out there that he can use for research to see why people might hate Mike.  There's plenty of objectionable things he's done that have received bad press.  You don't ask a forum, especially one where people claim there's an agenda almost anytime something negative is said about Brian.  

  

So you think the negative reviews thread had nothing to do with the man whose album was released and everything to do with...what exactly? Sharing information? Sure. Ask the guy who started that one.

Why does it have to be about Brian?  Why couldn't he just be concerned that it was getting bad reviews?  Again, your fellow moderator even agreed with him.  That OP's posting history shows there is no agenda at all.  

That's hilarious.

Is it?  Or do you mean for me because you keep digging yourself a bigger hole. Show me his posts that show he has a history of an agenda against Brian.  Feel free to pm it to me instead.  But nice job of deflecting from my original point to make it about someone you think has an agenda against Brian.  

Your original point was addressed, I'll say again this is an open forum, if you don't like something just challenge it or ignore it and it will fade away eventually. If you have an issue with the topic, ask the original writer what he's trying to get at with the post.

The other topic: Ask him why he quit if you're a pal. Simple as that. Then ask what happened afterward.

Are you saying there were two threads with the same title?  This is the one I'm referring to. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=20337.0

And again, your fellow moderator agreed with him, so I guess Billy has an agenda against Brian as well?

[Cam Mott]

I don't understand why there is a fuss over good or bad reviews. Why would we care what somebody else thought of it? And why in God's green acre would anyone do all of this fussing and acting out over someone else's opinion of a record? Jeez.

Now the differentiation that Brian and Mike both made between "talk" and "discuss within the group" circa C50,  there is something to get confrontational and insulting and accusatory over.    Probably.