Are Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks currently estranged?

[John Malone]

This movie seems to be rubbing many people in various quarters the wrong way.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Mr. Parks needs to decide if he wants to be associated with Brian and SMiLE or not. For a guy who claims he's over BW, who sides with Daro's opinion of him, and who makes snarky comments about someone's genius PR, it sure seems to burn his buns when he's left out of the discussion. He's been whining about everything Brian's done since the reunion tour. News Flash, Mr. Parks: This is Brian's story. Not yours. 

Please, he was working with L.A.'s hip music makers before he met Brian.  You obviously don't like him, but he was building a musical career outside of the short period of time he and Brian were together.

Exactly. Bluntly put, nobody would give two shits about him if he hadn't written the lyrics for Smile. He's jealous.

Doesn't mean there isn't some sort of jealousy  involved. And, yeah, maybe I was a bit too harsh, but it seems like he drinks too much wine made from sour grapes.

[Andrew G. Doe]

This movie seems to be rubbing many people in various quarters the wrong way.

Bound to. Everyone's got their own take on "what really happened".

[GhostyTMRS]

I'm also reminded of VDP's "Free Brian Wilson" tweet once it was announced there would be young guest stars on NPP (we all know what the insinuation is there).

Personally, I think VDP was really stung by Brian's initial decision to resurrect SMiLE without his involvement. I'm reminded of that scene in "Beautiful Dreamer" when Brian has invited VDP over to write new lyrics (presumably the first time VDP was officially called in to work on the project) and Brian keeps reassuring VDP that everybody loves him. Watch it again, and Brian says it in a very sweet and almost paternal way. That always struck me as a little strange at the time, but then having read about how VDP felt snubbed, it makes a little more sense.

Perhaps VDP feels like his role in SMiLE has been marginalized? I don't see why he would think that, since he and Brian are always mentioned in the same breath. Maybe he was ticked off that after TLOS he wasn't invited to participate in NPP. Maybe he WAS invited but the deal was lousy? All of it speculation, of course. Who knows?

The only thing we know for sure is that relationships can turn on a dime in Beach Boy-land and it wouldn't surprise me to see VDP jump on stage with an accordion at one of Brian's shows...or even one of Mike & Bruce's at this rate.
  

[rn57]

Well....if VDP feels that two scenes in L&M don't really show his significance in Brian's career, if the movie proves a hit to the degree where studio suits are saying "Get me a Beach Boys type project yesterday," then he can see if some of his young friends in the film community would be up for telling his story on film.  There are reports that his son Richard, who has a few short documentaries under his belt, is doing a feature doc about him.

Or in a dramatized feature.  The truth is VDP's physical appearance hasn't altered as much as Brian's in a half century so if you've got the right kind of makeup man and the right wigs you could have an actor play him from 22 to 70.  It'd be a heck of a role for a young actor...imagine learning all that polysyllabic dialogue.  But a lot of it would be hilarious to watch, especially when the Dubonnet and/or Harry Nilsson shows up.

(Now that's what I'm really hoping for, if L&M hits big....the Nilsson story as a dramatic feature. It literally has everything you'd want in a movie.)

[filledeplage]

Thread bump. 

[nakostopoulos]

Thread bump. 

I am a clairvoyant 

[37!ws]

I remember when Orange Crate Art came out, just as a laugh I sent an e-mail to VDP's address as listed in the liner notes. Very brief message, I think one or two bullet points. One of them was, "Are you sick of people asking about Smile?" And he responded yes, he was sick of it, because it was only a few months out of his life, and he had gone on to much more significant things and doesn't feel he had anything more he could really say about Smile. Man, do people in Brian's world change their attitudes harshly!

[Lonely Summer]

For TLOS, he wasn't allowed access to Brian while collaborating?  Sounds familiar.

Not trying to be polemic here, but am I the only one here who gets the Landy vibe from Melinda/his handlers?

It kind of reminds me of Mick Jagger's experience with John and Yoko. When he was estranged from her, they were best friends and doing things. However, when she got back in the picture, she cut all access off to him.

It sounds like anyone who wants or needs to work with Brian ends up getting a half-assed experience which really pisses me off. I bet Mike felt the same damn way as VDP for the last BB album.

We're not supposed to say this now, especially with the biopic portraying Melinda as the savior, but yes, I do get the Landy vibe. She seems very controlling - or maybe Brian just likes having someone to hide behind, someone to keep away the people he doesn't want to see, without having to say so himself.

[Catbirdman]

We're not supposed to say this now, especially with the biopic portraying Melinda as the savior, but yes, I do get the Landy vibe. She seems very controlling - or maybe Brian just likes having someone to hide behind, someone to keep away the people he doesn't want to see, without having to say so himself.

It always does set off alarm bells, and rightfully so, when Melinda is compared to Landy. But I submit that the similarity you mention - control - might be true, AND might be a very good thing. It might be possible that, yes, Melinda does exercise a good deal of control and influence over Brian, mainly in his career decisions and interacting with others, as you mention. It's possible that Brian wouldn't have been touring regularly for years. Ray and others can shed insight on that of course.

But Melinda should NEVER, in my opinion, be compared to Landy because there is a HUGE difference in the type of control exerted by someone who truly loves Brian and by someone who was by all accounts nothing more than a self-glorifying leech. Landy would have driven Brian to his grave and would have inherited his estate. Melinda, on the other hand, loves Brian and has his interests at heart. I do believe that. For example, she knew, yes, how much Brian might struggle, and go through pain, to go out on the road on a regular basis. But she also knew how much it would mean to him to experience the applause and the appreciation from fans, and how that would bring him greater happiness in the long run. Am I close, Ray?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

For TLOS, he wasn't allowed access to Brian while collaborating?  Sounds familiar.

Not trying to be polemic here, but am I the only one here who gets the Landy vibe from Melinda/his handlers?

It kind of reminds me of Mick Jagger's experience with John and Yoko. When he was estranged from her, they were best friends and doing things. However, when she got back in the picture, she cut all access off to him.

It sounds like anyone who wants or needs to work with Brian ends up getting a half-assed experience which really pisses me off. I bet Mike felt the same damn way as VDP for the last BB album.

We're not supposed to say this now, especially with the biopic portraying Melinda as the savior, but yes, I do get the Landy vibe. She seems very controlling - or maybe Brian just likes having someone to hide behind, someone to keep away the people he doesn't want to see, without having to say so himself.

How do you know Brian HASN'T  said so himself?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

We're not supposed to say this now, especially with the biopic portraying Melinda as the savior, but yes, I do get the Landy vibe. She seems very controlling - or maybe Brian just likes having someone to hide behind, someone to keep away the people he doesn't want to see, without having to say so himself.

It always does set off alarm bells, and rightfully so, when Melinda is compared to Landy. But I submit that the similarity you mention - control - might be true, AND might be a very good thing. It might be possible that, yes, Melinda does exercise a good deal of control and influence over Brian, mainly in his career decisions and interacting with others, as you mention. It's possible that Brian wouldn't have been touring regularly for years. Ray and others can shed insight on that of course.

But Melinda should NEVER, in my opinion, be compared to Landy because there is a HUGE difference in the type of control exerted by someone who truly loves Brian and by someone who was by all accounts nothing more than a self-glorifying leech. Landy would have driven Brian to his grave and would have inherited his estate. Melinda, on the other hand, loves Brian and has his interests at heart. I do believe that. For example, she knew, yes, how much Brian might struggle, and go through pain, to go out on the road on a regular basis. But she also knew how much it would mean to him to experience the applause and the appreciation from fans, and how that would bring him greater happiness in the long run. Am I close, Ray?

Well said.

[Cyncie]

People with emotional issues and depression often need someone who will exert a little tough love to get their butts out of bed so they can be productive doing the things they love. They also need someone who is not afraid to tell them "no,"  who won't accept their waffling, and who is doing all of this in love and  with their best interest at heart. I have, and have had, friends who suffer with depression and I've been that person at times. They may have complained when I held them accountable, but they always thanked me later. Because ultimately, it was a good thing.

I think Melinda is that person for Brian. Landy wasn't.

[pixletwin]

All you folks who think Melinda is some strange controller of Brian's life must not be married. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

People with emotional issues and depression often need someone who will exert a little tough love to get their butts out of bed so they can be productive doing the things they love. They also need someone who is not afraid to tell them "no,"  who won't accept their waffling, and who is doing all of this in love and  with their best interest at heart. I have, and have had, friends who suffer with depression and I've been that person at times. They may have complained when I held them accountable, but they always thanked me later. Because ultimately, it was a good thing.

I think Melinda is that person for Brian. Landy wasn't.

Completely agree, and as someone who suffers from severe bipolar disorder,  I can personally vouch for that

[John Manning]

All you folks who think Melinda is some strange controller of Brian's life must not be married.  

Brilliant!

As it now seems to be the done thing on this board to fall into one camp or the other, I'll state that I'm a Van Dyke Parks fan and supporter.

There didn't seem to me to have been any fall out between him and some aspects of the BBs/BW camps (beyond the traditional) until the time of TSS box set. One minute Van Dyke is speaking fullsomely of this "veritable Fabergé egg", the next he's distanced himself from it; a few years on and these seemingly cranky posts start.

The perceived birthday "snub" I can happily discount. Firstly, Van is probably fully aware of Brian's technical capability with relation to social media - note the line in the recent Rolling Stone piece about Brian not having replaced his cell phone since losing it years ago, and having little to do with computers (beyond posting personally in the Smiley board of course!) – and would know that Brian would never see the message anyway. He'd also perhaps suspect - and I reckon he'd be right if so - that the video, should he get to see it, would elicit a great big belly laugh from Brian. Chances are that Van sent Brian a traditional birthday card (some older readers will recall them - you had to remember the birthday usually by writing it on your calendar or in your diary, buy a physical card, which was usually printed with a picture on the front and a birthday greeting inside, write your own message then post it to a physical address wih a stamp on it to prove bag you'd paid to have it delivered - all this had to be achieved without Facebook).

Those who think Smile was the only meaningful achievement in Van's professional life need to do a little more research. His output has been prolific and superb down the years.

And it's a little disingenuous to accuse him of not moving on from Smile - he's one of its parents, afterall, while we are all stalkers by comparison.

I think he has unfinished business in relation to his input on Smile and perhaps, after almost 60 years, it's getting under his skin.

[Smilin Ed H]

Let's say next year Brian calls up VDP and says, "Joe's out the door so can you write some lyrics to a suite of songs I found in my desl drawer?" Will VDP refuse? Whaddya think?

[John Manning]

Let's say next year Brian calls up VDP and says, "Joe's out the door so can you write some lyrics to a suite of songs I found in my desl drawer?" Will VDP refuse? Whaddya think?

Crunch question! I reckon VDP should have his lawyer look through the terms of the publishing contract before deciding though!

[Cam Mott]

All you folks who think Melinda is some strange controller of Brian's life must not be married. 

+1

[Smilin Ed H]

If this doesn't show affection, what does?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiykTknz51U

[bgas]

If this doesn't show affection, what does?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiykTknz51U

something a little more current than 20 years ago?

[PhilSpectre]

Old work colleagues with a complex web of relationships based on history, money, rivalry (at least from VDP to BW it seems), both periodically haunted by a project they spent a few months on together the best part of 50 years ago and again over a few weeks 12 years ago.

Difficult stuff to get away from, even if one wants to, which will create ambivalent attitudes in those involved.

Bit of a weird one really, as VDP is probably most famous for Smile than anything else he's done, which may stick in his craw but ain't Brian's fault. Meanwhile, imo Brian seems to show more dignity in his reserve and public respect for VDP, while VDP's occasional waspish public comments on the issue do him few favours.

If VDP's not happy with his deal re. Smile, be it financially or how he was/ is credited on the project re. 'authorship', maybe he should pursue it legally,  a la Mike Love did in 1994.

Wasn't Van Dyke hired by Brian's organisation back in 1966 as a lyricist in a 'contractor'-type role, the same as Tony Asher was with Pet Sounds, in that Brian/ Capitol were free to use as much or as little of VDP's work as they wished? Whatever the reality, it was never meant to be viewed as a 50/50 thing in the public domain. Van Dyke's certainly never been credited on the front album cover of any officially released version of Smile as 'by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks

Just a few thoughts really.

[CenturyDeprived]

If VDP's not happy with his deal re. Smile, be it financially or how he was/ is credited on the project re. 'authorship', maybe he should pursue it legally,  a la Mike Love did in 1994.

If VDP got the short end of the stick, crediting and/or compensation-wise, VDP surely hasn't a fraction of the deep pockets that Mike has (or had in 1994) to wage a lawsuit if he feels wronged.

[bgas]

If VDP's not happy with his deal re. Smile, be it financially or how he was/ is credited on the project re. 'authorship', maybe he should pursue it legally,  a la Mike Love did in 1994.

If VDP got the short end of the stick, crediting and/or compensation-wise, VDP surely hasn't a fraction of the deep pockets that Mike has (or had in 1994) to wage a lawsuit if he feels wronged.

sure he does!  It might not be a large fraction tho

[CenturyDeprived]

If VDP's not happy with his deal re. Smile, be it financially or how he was/ is credited on the project re. 'authorship', maybe he should pursue it legally,  a la Mike Love did in 1994.

If VDP got the short end of the stick, crediting and/or compensation-wise, VDP surely hasn't a fraction of the deep pockets that Mike has (or had in 1994) to wage a lawsuit if he feels wronged.

sure he does!  It might not be a large fraction tho

Whatever bucks he has, it surely ain't anywhere near Mike Love-level bucks! At that level of wealth, lawsuits like the thrown-outta-court Smile CD giveaway lawsuit must be easier, relatively speaking, to just throw out there and see if they stick, or so I'd imagine.