Hoffman Board - Thread about Hite Morgan Sessions Kickstarter - Deleted!

[bgas]

 As yo've presented it, I see no way you're going to reach your goal.
You'll be better off taking PM "orders" and distributing  CD-Rs for $25 each

The tracks  included have never been released in the last fifty years.  A/B'd them all comprehensively. The ones not included had legal contentions as to their release. The original tracklist that was going to be presented for Prelude To Summer was much longer...

Sounds an even better reason to do CD-Rs: You can include ALL the 1st Wave tracks....

[raphph]

 As yo've presented it, I see no way you're going to reach your goal.
You'll be better off taking PM "orders" and distributing  CD-Rs for $25 each

Sounds an even better reason to do CD-Rs: You can include ALL the 1st Wave tracks....

Ideally, I'd still like to stick to the law if I'm charging

[John Manning]

The Keep An Eye On Summer - 1964 Sessions release from December was a godsend, one of my favorite releases ever, and it was limited to iTunes (and possibly other music sites). Given the content, the fact it was an iTunes release didn't cheapen it at all for me.

It's since been released, along with the Sacramento gig files, as lossless on a few high-res specialist sites, including Pono and Analogue Productions (if memory serves…)

[John Manning]

So why do you need $38,000 to press 1,500 copies?

Tis a valid question. Whilst I'm not going to provide breakdowns of costs - I will say that it's taken a lot of behind the scenes costs to pull this together. Else I'd just burn CD-Rs of 1500 copies and mail them to you all.

Is one of those behind the scenes costs recompensing Steve Hoffman? Granted, he's not everyone's favourite online presence but his work is regarded as exemplary, and I'm not sure whether it could be argued that that copyright has expired on the remastered files he created…

I think what folk are looking for there is a release that's completely above board, whereby everyone is recompensed for work done (bit like Frank Holmes was, I understand, eventually recompensed for his Smile artwork with the 2011 TSS release) and maybe long-standing debts are settled.

Wouldn't it be better, first of all, to sort out all those legal contentions that prevent the release of his package as a complete entity?

I hate being so negative about such a potentially wonderful release but I'd love to see all the bases covered and the job done comprehensively.

[raphph]

So why do you need $38,000 to press 1,500 copies?

Tis a valid question. Whilst I'm not going to provide breakdowns of costs - I will say that it's taken a lot of behind the scenes costs to pull this together. Else I'd just burn CD-Rs of 1500 copies and mail them to you all.

Is one of those behind the scenes costs recompensing Steve Hoffman? Granted, he's not everyone's favourite online presence but his work is regarded as exemplary, and I'm not sure whether it could be argued that that copyright has expired on the remastered files he created…

I think what folk are looking for there is a release that's completely above board, whereby everyone is recompensed for work done (bit like Frank Holmes was, I understand, eventually recompensed for his Smile artwork with the 2011 TSS release) and maybe long-standing debts are settled.

Wouldn't it be better, first of all, to sort out all those legal contentions that prevent the release of his package as a complete entity?

I hate being so negative about such a potentially wonderful release but I'd love to see all the bases covered and the job done comprehensively.

Ok guys I'm starting to know when I'm beat. Clearly there is considerable interest in this release but we've had ten backers so far. I was trying to give this a proper release rather than a rush job. I've learned my lesson. Thanks for your time. I hope you can all see I was trying to do something worthy. I hope you don't have to wait another fifteen years to see these recordings - but don't hold your breath

[Lonely Summer]

It'd be nice to see this happen. Now if we could get some kind of release of the 1962 Beach Boys/Gary Usher session...

I'm in, but they'd better hurry the hell up before Bruce Morgan starts writing Cease and Desist orders!

All but 5 tracks are unreleased.  I thought we got most of the good stuff in "Lost & Found".

Exactly. I don't see a need for this release.

[Mikie]

Well, I was exaggerating a little bit, LS. This is one of those releases that almost came together back in 2000 and most people still have a sour taste in their mouths over it. "First Wave" has a very attractive track listing and collectors would snap it up in a minute, just like they did, or almost did, back in 2000. The problem is the solicitation of funds prior to the project coming together. If it were offered with the package being already complete, it would be a different story.

[Jim Murphy]

As the author of the upcoming Becoming the Beach Boys, 1961-1963 (McFarland), I have followed this thread with great interest. During the band's 50th Anniversary celebration, I had hoped Capitol (or, perhaps, Sundazed) would have released an authorized collection of every take of the Hite Morgan recordings accompanied with liner notes and photographs. By the way, in the interest of full disclosure, I am not affiliated with the Prelude to Summer project. I understand and share the desire to hear all of these historic recordings.

Becoming the Beach Boys, 1961-1963, will be published by McFarland very soon. I just finished the Index and the corrected proofs go back to the publisher on Friday. The book looks fantastic and I am extremely pleased with it.

It will be 404 pages, 80 photographs (out of 205 submitted), twelve appendices, 1,200 End Notes, an extensive bibliography, and index. Some of the cool(er) photographs include Hite Morgan, Dorinda Morgan, the Dix brothers, Joe Saraceno, Herb Newman, Nick Venet, the band's first royalty check, Bob Dix's telegram authorizing the X Records 301 release, Judy Bowles, Vickie Kocher, the original work order for the "Surfin' Safari" b/w "409" single ("409" was never planned as the A side), Murry's telegram to Soupy Sales thanking him for playing "Surfin'" on his television show, autographed photographs, newspaper ads, tickets, handbills, posters, their first Capitol biography, one of the five photographs taken at Dykstra Hall at UCLA, three stunning photographs from the rehearsals for One Man's Challenge at the Azusa Teen Club (actually, the Azusa Recreation Center), and great anecdotes from: Jodi Gable, their friend and first president of their fan club; David McClellan, their friend and first director of publicity who, miraculously and thankfully, saved everything; Judy Bowles; the late Jimmy O'Neill, who booked the guys at Pandora's Box for five consecutive nights in August 1962. The Appendices include professional architectural drawings of the floor plans of Hite and Dorinda Morgan's home, 2511 Mayberry Street; Stereo Masters, 5534-5538 Melrose Avenue; and the offices of Candix Enterprises, Inc, 6425 Hollywood Boulevard [the architectural drawings were done for me by Al Dix, one of the five Dix brothers, with input from Bruce Morgan, who graciously agreed to more than 20 hours of interviews with me]; a Surfin' Revenue and Expense Stream, and Production Flow chart; the September 15, 1961, Standard Songwriter's Contract for "Surfin';" the March 29, 1962, Letter of Intent and Agreement between Murry Wilson and Hite Morgan; a cool map of the April 24-May 5, 1963, tour illustrating how they zigzagged across the Midwest in a fashion similar to the ill-fated 1959 Winter Dance Party tour; and "Dennis" an unrecorded song Dorinda Morgan wrote in February 1984 as a tribute to her favorite Beach Boy. I wanted to include the legends from the tape boxes of the Hite Morgan recordings, but they, along with many other images that didn't make the cut, will have to wait until later in the year when they are posted on the companion website.  The final chapter of the book is called Coda: The Hite Morgan Tapes--Discovery, Illumination and Litigation and will answer many of the lingering questions about the original nine Morgan recordings. The Coda was drawn from extensive interviews with Paul Urbahns, Steve Hoffman, Bruce Morgan, and a tower of legal documents collected from every lawsuit concerning the tapes going back to 1964. I spent months trying to make sense of that Maze. It's a tad dense read, but written for us non-legal types so that it will make sense.

If you like the band's early history, you are going to love this book.

I have enjoyed the band since October 1966 (yeah, that song) and am especially interested in the early days. So, in April 2006 I set about writing a book about the band's origin story that I would want to read myself. A book that would answer--or attempt to answer--all of the questions about their early history. Of course, with the Beach Boys early history, you have to know what the questions are in the first place. Now, in that special place called Beach Boys' World, one learns it's best to circumvent the word "definitive." So, I stop short of calling the book definitive.  An early working sub-title was Setting the Record Straight, which I wisely later scrapped. But, I believe, Becoming the Beach Boys, 1961-1963, will come as close to the true story as we know . . . so far. And that's the key -- so far.  It builds upon some of the the great pioneering work done on the band by other writers and historians, several of whom post here.  Folks like Andrew G. Doe, Ian Rusten, Jon Stebbins, Peter Reum, and Brad Elliott. And it is fully footnoted, so credit goes where credit is due. I truly expect, and genuinely hope, that additional information will come to light -- perhaps through  Brian's and Mike's forthcoming books, and if Alan pens his memoirs.  Al, if you're listening, I'm available June 1. I hear Monterey is beautiful this time of year.

The book is available for pre-order at McFarland's website and Amazon.

http://www.mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-7365-6

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Beach-1961-1963-James-Murphy/dp/0786473657/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428332719&sr=8-1&keywords=becoming+the+beach+boys  

[Mikie]

SOLD!   How do I get one autographed? Or are you going to do any book signings in the S.F. Bay Area, Jim?

[37!ws]

(Anybody else think raphph is not who he seems? *cough*)

[raphph]

(Anybody else think raphph is not who he seems? *cough*)

Hey cmon I've tried to be honest and upfront with you guys.

[Terry]

There is no waaaay that any Kickstarter should be looking for this much money to press up 1,500 CDs, even if you're taking in account marketing costs and maybe hiring a publicist, paying for liner notes (which I'm sure a person here can confirm doesn't pay much), etc. Unless someone is owed a large sum of money...

[John Manning]

Raphael, I'm simply waiting to be convinced that this project isn't going to fade to naught like the last attempt to publish these tracks. I hoped you might stick around for more than, what, eight hours to push your cause.

A few folk have raised legitimate concerns about who else is involved in the project, about the costs, etc, none of which have really been fully answered. So the guy who provided the tapes is anonymous and did so via a middleman/men? The price is so high because there are costs involved? Some tracks are being omitted for legal reasons, yet the set is only being considered because copyright expiry circumvents other legal stumbling blocks?

I and I'm sure others appreciate your being here to assuage doubts but a little more openness would go a long way to achieving that goal. I for one am willing to be won over, I just need winning over!

[Mikie]

(Anybody else think raphph is not who he seems? *cough*)

You're suggesting that "Raphph" might be...............................Brad?  

[SMiLE Brian]

The kickstarter goal strangely adds up to the amount Brad owes.

[raphph]

The kickstarter goal strangely adds up to the amount Brad owes.
[/quote
I woulda gotten away with it... If it weren't for ...

[Mooger Fooger]

So whatever happened to the Smile session picture set? AFAIK there was no legal stumbling blocks holding that up.

Let's just say the "refund" I got only happened thanks to Amex stepping in. It certainly was not voluntary.

[Mr. Verlander]

And all this time, I assumed that 'Brad Elliott' was actually a female, pretending to be a man,  who just wanted to take people's money.

[Peter Reum]

With respect to the Morgan tapes, they are the first recordings that The Beach Boys cut. They are quite raw, and they are significant for being the first versions of Surfer Girl and Surfin' Safari, and of course, Surfin'. I have found that these tapes are historically significant, but much of the music is very primitive. Brad Elliott would be excellent to do the notes for such an issue. I think that Brian finds them painful to hear. They are a political hornet's nest, and have been since they were first issued in 1969. The old adage about letting sleeping dogs lie comes to mind...

[Lonely Summer]

With respect to the Morgan tapes, they are the first recordings that The Beach Boys cut. They are quite raw, and they are significant for being the first versions of Surfer Girl and Surfin' Safari, and of course, Surfin'. I have found that these tapes are historically significant, but much of the music is very primitive. Brad Elliott would be excellent to do the notes for such an issue. I think that Brian finds them painful to hear. They are a political hornet's nest, and have been since they were first issued in 1969. The old adage about letting sleeping dogs lie comes to mind...

I'm quite satisfied with the Lost and Found album as documentation of these sessions.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So whatever happened to the Smile session picture set? AFAIK there was no legal stumbling blocks holding that up.

Let's just say the "refund" I got only happened thanks to Amex stepping in. It certainly was not voluntary.

Interestingly, when news of that project was announced, David Leaf's name was mentioned on the web page (the Dailey Collection was then lodged with him, as I recall). I told him about that and within hours the text was amended.

The recordings Elliott tried to release had been on countless two-bit lo fi releases since 1969 without word one being said, then suddenly BRI decides they own them. Elliott was unquestionably screwed over that, and one has to ask if there was another motive. That aside, he defrauded and lied to a significant number of fans, and that has to taint this project.. Something just doesn't stack up, as others have noted. And why files, not tapes ? Maybe Jim can ask Bruce Morgan about it.

[Loaf]

(Anybody else think raphph is not who he seems? *cough*)

Hey cmon I've tried to be honest and upfront with you guys.

If you follow the links from the kickstarter page, there are plenty of photos, twitter accounts, facebook pages of the guy. He even says he's working for king.com these days and you can see his full CV on linked-in. Okay, these things can all be faked, but he has posted lots of concert photos from gigs he's been to. I am satisfied that he is who he says he is and that he is genuine in wanting to release this material.

The amount he wants to raise does seem a little steep, and i guess a lot is going to Steve Hoffman and"anonymous" who is working through middlemen to get this out. This "anonymous" may be the dreaded "Bad" Brad Smell-a-lot.

There is clearly interest in this material and this release. The interest shown in Jim Murphy's book backs this up, and i think Jim's model of publish-first-get-buyers-second is the way to go.

So, if Raphael is a venture capitalist and is willing to take a gamble in selling 1500 copies, then he (and/or his anonymous middlemen) should put up the funds up front and see if they can't sell more than 1500, or see if The Hoff can be convinced to work on a percentage basis.

Good faith and all that?

in addition, if the remastering etc.. has already been done, then it's a sunk cost. By not releasing the material these costs won't be recovered at all. The additional cost to press up 1500 CDs at this point is minimal.

[37!ws]

Okay, I concede that raphph is not BE. My sincere apologies.

[John Manning]

(Anybody else think raphph is not who he seems? *cough*)

Hey cmon I've tried to be honest and upfront with you guys.

If you follow the links from the kickstarter page, there are plenty of photos, twitter accounts, facebook pages of the guy. He even says he's working for king.com these days and you can see his full CV on linked-in. Okay, these things can all be faked, but he has posted lots of concert photos from gigs he's been to. I am satisfied that he is who he says he is and that he is genuine in wanting to release this material.

The amount he wants to raise does seem a little steep, and i guess a lot is going to Steve Hoffman and"anonymous" who is working through middlemen to get this out. This "anonymous" may be the dreaded "Bad" Brad Smell-a-lot.

There is clearly interest in this material and this release. The interest shown in Jim Murphy's book backs this up, and i think Jim's model of publish-first-get-buyers-second is the way to go.

So, if Raphael is a venture capitalist and is willing to take a gamble in selling 1500 copies, then he (and/or his anonymous middlemen) should put up the funds up front and see if they can't sell more than 1500, or see if The Hoff can be convinced to work on a percentage basis.

Good faith and all that?

in addition, if the remastering etc.. has already been done, then it's a sunk cost. By not releasing the material these costs won't be recovered at all. The additional cost to press up 1500 CDs at this point is minimal.

Good points, all. But have I missed a reference to steve Hoffman being recompensed somewhere? If I have, then my bad…

… why files, not tapes ? Maybe Jim can ask Bruce Morgan about it.

Anyone else worried that the tapes might no longer be in a place that's conducive to their long-term health?

And surely Jim would be the go-to guy for sleeve notes for a release of this nature, what with his name about to be in lights as an expert for precisely this period of the band's history? 

[joshferrell]

Okay, I concede that raphph is not BE. My sincere apologies.

To BE or not to BE that is the question."