Whennn was the last time Mike got to write with Brian alone in a room?

[CenturyDeprived]

How do we know Mike just split moments after the last song without a word?

How do we know the photo in question represents the entierty of the last C50 show/backstage events/party/etc etc?

How do we know Bruce isn't assisting Mike as he takes the picture? ..... As in "adjusting the Mike"

We don't know he split like that. I'm wondering if it possibly happened, and how sadly awkward it must have been one way or another, if there was (or wasn't) a proper good-bye.

Well, the sadly awkward part is pure speculation. Whether or not Mike (and assuming Bruce in tow) just split without saying a word: it's us here assumimg/imagining that it would be sadly awkward ...... It could have been as simple as "Oh, yeah, Mike and Bruce can't make the photo-op/party/whatever" ..... equalling: no big deal.... Or it could have been "Great show, have fun at the party. I got this and that to do" by Mike ..... equalling: no big deal.

I highly doubt Mike was banned from the event or went out of his way NOT to be there either.

But this is just me speculating as well ..... Hopefully someone who was there will chime in.

True, it's speculation. I'd find it hard to conceive though, that even if there was any kind of a formal good-bye, that it wouldn't have been awkward considering the circumstances. I know someone who worked the Grammy Museum event just a couple weeks beforehand, who said there were some tense backstage vibes going on between the original 5 guys, and I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the main source of that was the fact that C50 was about to end in an unfortunate manner. I don't think that fact was "no big deal" to at least several of the participants - do you? But maybe, somehow after that last UK show, it wasn't sadly awkward... and maybe the thought that somebody left without saying good-bye is illogical. Maybe you're right.

[Cyncie]

The dinner was to thank the band and crew for their hard work on the tour. If you're one of the principal Beach Boys and frontman for the group, it seems to me the classy thing would be to set aside your issues with the tour just a little longer in order to give some due to the people who made you sound good in front of all those paying audience members.

But, if you're Mike Love, you jet off to play the K-mart lounge or something. And, if you're Bruce, you just suck it up.

Oh, and Ray was there and already mentioned the "room" and the dinner:

I believe the Beach Boys C50 played 73 dates; I went to 20-25 of them ; I cant remember all of them; all US , except the final two shows in London. Melinda Wilson attended the first 3 , I am certain; she was at the Beacon in NY for two shows there , the Hollywood Bowl and the next night; then she attended the last two nights in London.  So she attended roughly a little over 10 per cent of the C50 shows; so the other 88% or so of the C50 tour , who was "controlling" Brian and keeping him from Mike ?  Can anybody identify the "controllers" ? There was all sorts of opportunity , every night of that tour for Mike and Brian to get together ; how about at catering , every night...as I said I was at 20-25 of the C50 shows; I was in catering at all of them....so was everyone else in the band and crew....not once did I see Mike and Brian sit together , or for either of them to initiate a dialogue with each other.  Their respective dressing rooms were usually adjacent; within 15-20 feet of each other......Melinda Wilson wasn't there , so she wasn't keeping them apart; Jeff Foskett sure as hell wasn't keeping them apart....There was certainly no animosity between them , and ample opportunity to have time together, but it didn't ever happen ; at least not that I saw when I was there. There was even one last opportunity at the end of C50 in London.  Brian and Melinda held a thank you dinner for all the band and crew at an Italian restaurant in Knightsbridge. There would have been one final opportunity for Brian and Mike to sit down  and talk things out over a bowl of pasta , but unfortunately Mike and Bruce had a prior commitment and couldn't attend.....no "controllers " kept them apart there either."

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17983.200.html

[CenturyDeprived]

The dinner was to thank the band and crew for their hard work on the tour. If you're one of the principal Beach Boys and frontman for the group, it seems to me the classy thing would be to set aside your issues with the tour just a little longer in order to give some due to the people who made you sound good in front of all those paying audience members.

But, if you're Mike Love, you jet off to play the K-mart lounge or something. And, if you're Bruce, you just suck it up.

Oh, and Ray was there and already mentioned the "room" and the dinner:

I believe the Beach Boys C50 played 73 dates; I went to 20-25 of them ; I cant remember all of them; all US , except the final two shows in London. Melinda Wilson attended the first 3 , I am certain; she was at the Beacon in NY for two shows there , the Hollywood Bowl and the next night; then she attended the last two nights in London.  So she attended roughly a little over 10 per cent of the C50 shows; so the other 88% or so of the C50 tour , who was "controlling" Brian and keeping him from Mike ?  Can anybody identify the "controllers" ? There was all sorts of opportunity , every night of that tour for Mike and Brian to get together ; how about at catering , every night...as I said I was at 20-25 of the C50 shows; I was in catering at all of them....so was everyone else in the band and crew....not once did I see Mike and Brian sit together , or for either of them to initiate a dialogue with each other.  Their respective dressing rooms were usually adjacent; within 15-20 feet of each other......Melinda Wilson wasn't there , so she wasn't keeping them apart; Jeff Foskett sure as hell wasn't keeping them apart....There was certainly no animosity between them , and ample opportunity to have time together, but it didn't ever happen ; at least not that I saw when I was there. There was even one last opportunity at the end of C50 in London.  Brian and Melinda held a thank you dinner for all the band and crew at an Italian restaurant in Knightsbridge. There would have been one final opportunity for Brian and Mike to sit down  and talk things out over a bowl of pasta , but unfortunately Mike and Bruce had a prior commitment and couldn't attend.....no "controllers " kept them apart there either."

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17983.200.html

It was probably not an especially dissimilar situation to Mike and Bruce's no-show to the 2005 monument dedication. I remember being really saddened and surprised that they weren't there, and that an actual attempt at a "legit" excuse of being "busy" with prior commitments of some sort was made for deflective spin purposes. C'mon. The only people who would truly buy that surface excuse without digging further would be the Sea World crowd who doesn't know any better about the facts/history. But I get it though. Brian didn't attend Mike's recent award show either... though I would be surprised if that would still have been the case if Mike had attended this dinner. There's definitely a cause/effect chain of no-show stuff between these guys. Oddly though, in both of Mike's no-show cases, it was events where he himself was in part being celebrated/lauded.

If only Mike could have picked the 1988 Rock HOF induction to be his no-show...

[urbanite]

It seems like neither one is big enough to get over the slights of the past.   

[guitarfool2002]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths" or "loaded with Autotune", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

[Nicko1234]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths" or "loaded with Autotune", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

Obsessed much? The laces were in, the laces were in... 

[guitarfool2002]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths" or "loaded with Autotune", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

Obsessed much? The laces were in, the laces were in... 

Is it irony or absurdity to use the word obsessed after 4 pages in this thread of all things, first off, and then on top of that in a thread where words are being twisted and parsed and obfuscated and filibustered to avoid having to agree at some point, perhaps, to a basic notion like "this is what happened" free of the absolution and deflection.

I mean, for real, I can appreciate the humor in someone saying Bruce wasn't in that end-of-C50-tour dinner party photo because he was adjusting the camera's tripod, but the level of absurdity some of these "explanations" have reached can leave me wondering if it is a joke or if it's a serious comment. 

And the way things have been going, I have to assume the latter all too often.

[guitarfool2002]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

I just pitch corrected my Autotune comment, Nicko. It actually makes the original post even more effective and direct since there's nothing as handy to use to divert and distract from the point being made. 

[Niko]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths" or "loaded with Autotune", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

Obsessed much? The laces were in, the laces were in... 

Is it irony or absurdity to use the word obsessed after 4 pages in this thread of all things

It's called needling, and is most of what he does.

Actually you're just trying to reach a resolution to a broad topic that is difficult to tackle without more than a few posts on topic.

[Nicko1234]

It's called needling, and is most of what he does.

Actually you're just trying to reach a resolution to a broad topic that is difficult to tackle without more than a few posts on topic.

Nah, that`s what you`re attempting with this post surely.

[Niko]

Needling would be pointing out how funny the apostrophe you insist on using looks.

[Bruces Shorts]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths" or "loaded with Autotune", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

I really don't know what to make of comments like these.

After how many people jumping on/inventing any/all reasons to paint Mike in a bad light (fair enough), suddenly all of Beach Boy history has to be defended for Brian? .... Who's dissing or saying bad things about Brian? Nor do I think anyone's being an apologist for Mike or Bruce. Maybe there's been some mere mundane speculation because they happen to be human beings, but so what? .... I'd rather er on the side of that always. I mean, how do you speculate/assume the worst in one direction and poo poo speculation/assumtions in the opposite direction? .... Life is a two way street.

And if people don't like the vocal sound on Brian's album, so what? Who says they have to like the album even? Who says they can't even hate it? ... Beach Boys/Brian stuff has been picked apart, misunderstood, reevaluated, trashed, loved, for over 50 years.... I think Brian can handle some people wondering about the vocal sound (which IS odd in places, I must admit: but which doesn't stop me from adoring the album, either) .... Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't it be better to go to bat for all the reasons the album is great: songwriting, vibe, feel, musicianship, harmonies, rather than paint people as mad cult members because they have concerns about a rather inert technical detail?

As for Brian and his "handlers" .... With the man's history, there will likely always be that speculation, just as in life in general: there is always speculation. Pick a topic and it's rife with speculation, theory, and argument.

[Nicko1234]

I really don't know what to make of comments like these.

After how many people jumping on/inventing any/all reasons to paint Mike in a bad light, suddenly all of Beach Boy history has to be defended for Brian? .... Who's dissing or saying bad things about Brian? Nor do I think anyone's being an apologist for Mike or Bruce. Maybe there's been some mere mundane speculation because they happen to be human beings, but so what? .... I'd rather er on the side of that always. I mean, how do you speculate/assume the worst in one direction and poo poo speculation/assumtions in the opposite direction? .... Life is a two way street.

And if people don't like the vocal sound on Brian's album, so what? Who says they have to like the album even? Who says they can't even hate it? ... Beach Boys/Brian stuff has been picked apart, misunderstood, reevaluated, trashed, loved, for over 50 years.... I think Brian can handle some people wondering about the vocal sound (which IS odd in places, I must admit: but which doesn't stop me from adoring the album, either) .... Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't it be better to go to bat for all the reasons the album is great: songwriting, vibe, feel, musicianship, harmonies, rather than paint people as mad cult members because they have concerns about a rather inert technical detail?

As for Brian and his "controllers" .... With the man's history, there will likely always be that speculation, just as in life in general: there is always speculation. Pick a topic and it's rife with speculation, theory, and argument.

You make a lot of good points. I think the speculation can be summed up with three simple words, `This is fandom`. Other boards seem to understand that everything and anything will be discussed, picked apart, praised and criticized by fans far more than it would be by sane people. It`s all a part of fandom.

[Bruces Shorts]

I really don't know what to make of comments like these.

After how many people jumping on/inventing any/all reasons to paint Mike in a bad light, suddenly all of Beach Boy history has to be defended for Brian? .... Who's dissing or saying bad things about Brian? Nor do I think anyone's being an apologist for Mike or Bruce. Maybe there's been some mere mundane speculation because they happen to be human beings, but so what? .... I'd rather er on the side of that always. I mean, how do you speculate/assume the worst in one direction and poo poo speculation/assumtions in the opposite direction? .... Life is a two way street.

And if people don't like the vocal sound on Brian's album, so what? Who says they have to like the album even? Who says they can't even hate it? ... Beach Boys/Brian stuff has been picked apart, misunderstood, reevaluated, trashed, loved, for over 50 years.... I think Brian can handle some people wondering about the vocal sound (which IS odd in places, I must admit: but which doesn't stop me from adoring the album, either) .... Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't it be better to go to bat for all the reasons the album is great: songwriting, vibe, feel, musicianship, harmonies, rather than paint people as mad cult members because they have concerns about a rather inert technical detail?

As for Brian and his "controllers" .... With the man's history, there will likely always be that speculation, just as in life in general: there is always speculation. Pick a topic and it's rife with speculation, theory, and argument.

You make a lot of good points. I think the speculation can be summed up with three simple words, `This is fandom`. Other boards seem to understand that everything and anything will be discussed, picked apart, praised and criticized by fans far more than it would be by sane people. It`s all a part of fandom.

I know what you're saying but it's a bit unsettling when a fact, like Mike and Bruce not being present at the end of tour party seems to be massive enough to where discussion/speculation (fandom), is looked down upon and basically ridiculed. Are certain people's views/opinions under such thin skin that the hallmarks of fandom are a threat to be vanquished? I mean, how fun is it to lean back in one's chair and go "Yeah, Mike and Bruce: what assh*&es!"

If they weren't there, then there much be reasons why. Or like Bugliosi says in Helter Skelter: there is no such thing as a crime without a motive. I'd like to know the motive, no matter how it makes anyone involved look. "This guy or that guy sucks and is a bastard" is deadly boring.

[guitarfool2002]

No, I beg to differ. Fandom is *not* having an individual with a solid reputation and resume in the business come to this board, tell it as he was told firsthand about various bookings and other details, and have his words picked apart, parsed, and challenged by fans whose closest connection to what actually happened behind the headlines and message boards may have been buying a ticket to a show versus actually having direct professional and personal relationships with those who were involved.

There is fandom, and then there is reaching a level of arguing for the sake of arguing, and further trying to nitpick, bend, shape, spin, and parse every which way to avoid having to agree that something may have indeed happened exactly as reported despite that something going against your own wishes or "speculation". And then there is trying to rewrite history, which is a whole other ball of wax, or can o' worms, whatever the term is that applies.

Fandom is also not apologizing for those who continue to promote lies and distortions which have been proven untrue by those who actually know, by trying to chalk it up to 'speculation' rather than the blatant lie that it is. The "handlers" stuff is not speculation, it's total bullshit if I can be blunt about it. And it will be called that whenever someone tries to promote that line of crap on this board or elsewhere. Simple action and reaction scenario.

But hey, I can "speculate" that I'll buy a Lotto ticket and win 75 million tomorrow night, then later I can speculate when I don't win that the person who did win was a setup, and the whole thing was rigged from the inside to justify my "speculation" that I'd win being completely wrong and to also make me feel better about losing the 40 bucks I spent buying Lotto tickets. Either way, it's a fool's errand. Speculation is not reality especially when reality is staring you in the face.

I can also speculate that Elvis is alive and he goes to the Olive Garden in Tallahassee every Thursday for their $6.99 all-you-can-eat soup, salad, and breadsticks. I guess that's as valid as saying Elvis died in 1977.

[Bruces Shorts]

No, I beg to differ. Fandom is *not* having an individual with a solid reputation and resume in the business come to this board, tell it as he was told firsthand about various bookings and other details, and have his words picked apart, parsed, and challenged by fans whose closest connection to what actually happened behind the headlines and message boards may have been buying a ticket to a show versus actually having direct professional and personal relationships with those who were involved.

There is fandom, and then there is reaching a level of arguing for the sake of arguing, and further trying to nitpick, bend, shape, spin, and parse every which way to avoid having to agree that something may have indeed happened exactly as reported despite that something going against your own wishes or "speculation". And then there is trying to rewrite history, which is a whole other ball of wax, or can o' worms, whatever the term is that applies.

Fandom is also not apologizing for those who continue to promote lies and distortions which have been proven untrue by those who actually know, by trying to chalk it up to 'speculation' rather than the blatant lie that it is. The "handlers" stuff is not speculation, it's total bullshit if I can be blunt about it. And it will be called that whenever someone tries to promote that line of crap on this board or elsewhere. Simple action and reaction scenario.

But hey, I can "speculate" that I'll buy a Lotto ticket and win 75 million tomorrow night, then later I can speculate when I don't win that the person who did win was a setup, and the whole thing was rigged from the inside to justify my "speculation" that I'd win being completely wrong and to also make me feel better about losing the 40 bucks I spent buying Lotto tickets. Either way, it's a fool's errand. Speculation is not reality especially when reality is staring you in the face.

I can also speculate that Elvis is alive and he goes to the Olive Garden in Tallahassee every Thursday for their $6.99 all-you-can-eat soup, salad, and breadsticks. I guess that's as valid as saying Elvis died in 1977.

Huh?

So, one person speaks for many? ......  including those directly accused of this or that?

When it suits a point of view? .... Oh, ok.

Until we have word from either Mike or Bruce on the subject, and their input is weighed against others, I'd imagine speculation is entirely warranted.

[guitarfool2002]

That's good to hear, I'm a fan of Elvis so I'll make sure to book a flight to Tallahassee to catch him eating minestrone and breadsticks this Thursday at the Olive Garden. Based on speculation that has nothing to do with reality, of course.

[Bruces Shorts]

That's good to hear, I'm a fan of Elvis so I'll make sure to book a flight to Tallahassee to catch him eating minestrone and breadsticks this Thursday at the Olive Garden. Based on speculation that has nothing to do with reality, of course.

Elvis and breadsticks??

You have to hang out in places where multitudes of cheeseburgers are served in a pile on a plate if you want to catch a glimpse of the Hillbilly Cat.

Apologies. I thought this was a discussion board.

I'll go back to lurking.

[Niko]

I'll go back to lurking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChTqYlDjtI

[Bruces Shorts]

I'll go back to lurking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChTqYlDjtI

Thank you, but I think this quote from Mr. Michael E. Love is more appropriate:

"Next time there's a riot, man, you best stay out of sight"


BTW: the "Elvis is alive" thing that's being used to make me look stupid is based on Elvis himself, silly as it is, telling his cousin Billy Smith and other intimates that he was considering faking his death, and even going as far as consulting with some crackpot who apparently specialized in such things, like "procuring a body"...... Point is: speculation and theories are rarely ever based on absolutely nothing at all.

[Nicko1234]

No, I beg to differ. Fandom is *not* having an individual with a solid reputation and resume in the business come to this board, tell it as he was told firsthand about various bookings and other details, and have his words picked apart, parsed, and challenged by fans whose closest connection to what actually happened behind the headlines and message boards may have been buying a ticket to a show versus actually having direct professional and personal relationships with those who were involved.

There is fandom, and then there is reaching a level of arguing for the sake of arguing, and further trying to nitpick, bend, shape, spin, and parse every which way to avoid having to agree that something may have indeed happened exactly as reported despite that something going against your own wishes or "speculation". And then there is trying to rewrite history, which is a whole other ball of wax, or can o' worms, whatever the term is that applies.

Fandom is also not apologizing for those who continue to promote lies and distortions which have been proven untrue by those who actually know, by trying to chalk it up to 'speculation' rather than the blatant lie that it is. The "handlers" stuff is not speculation, it's total bullshit if I can be blunt about it. And it will be called that whenever someone tries to promote that line of crap on this board or elsewhere. Simple action and reaction scenario.

But hey, I can "speculate" that I'll buy a Lotto ticket and win 75 million tomorrow night, then later I can speculate when I don't win that the person who did win was a setup, and the whole thing was rigged from the inside to justify my "speculation" that I'd win being completely wrong and to also make me feel better about losing the 40 bucks I spent buying Lotto tickets. Either way, it's a fool's errand. Speculation is not reality especially when reality is staring you in the face.

I can also speculate that Elvis is alive and he goes to the Olive Garden in Tallahassee every Thursday for their $6.99 all-you-can-eat soup, salad, and breadsticks. I guess that's as valid as saying Elvis died in 1977.

I must be looking at a different thread I think because the vast majority of this one is entirely mundane and inoffensive.

Fandom indeed...

[LostArt]

Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't it be better to go to bat for all the reasons the album is great: songwriting, vibe, feel, musicianship, harmonies, rather than paint people as mad cult members because they have concerns about a rather inert technical detail?

He did that already.  Best review of NPP by anyone, anywhere (in my oh, so humble opinion, of course). 

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20292.0.html

[Ray Lawlor]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Wrong.

[SMiLE Brian]

I think "Bruce's shorts" is pinder under a new profile.

[Mike's Beard]

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths" or "loaded with Autotune", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

This has exactly Jack and sh*t to do with the discussion topic....... and Jack just left town.