Love and Mercy - News and Reviews - First clip is out.

[Mark H.]

Some times it's just better to listen than be heard.

[Shady]

Can we just for a moment appreciate that we have this unbelievably active and up to to the second with news message board to discuss our favorite band. Few artists have a message board about them this good, actually barley any.

It's genuinely a pleasure to post here and I would never let a snide comment or whatever stop me from coming on here every day.

[Ray Lawlor]

Ray likes Stella Artois. Upon his recommendation, I brought a 6-er home a few weekends ago and tried one. I'll save the rest for when I show up on his doorstep with it. Ray, are you still accepting visitors?

Absolutely

[startBBtoday]

Before I begin I want to state for the record that what I'm about to post should not be viewed as a personal attack of any sort and I am merely using your post as a jumping off point as you do raise a number of good issues.

Not saying anyone needs to treat the special guests with kid gloves or anything, but I think it's fair to say that most aren't exactly experienced message board users

If you could identity the party that is to blame for this (if any) it would be helpful in finding a resolution to the issue at hand.  The problem is I personally am not sure if there is a guilty party in this matter.  We live in the age in which communication over a keyboard is becoming more and more the norm and a skill that many more people are becoming adept at than not. While I have sympathy and understanding for the novice, when you enter the forum you should at least have some understanding as to how internet forums in general function.  If anything you should realize that they are not always accurate predictors of social interaction but more of a social brainstorming for lack of a better term where people ask questions, debate and interact with one another in hopes of furthering discussion of the topic at hand.

These:

Brian makes music.  Does he also have to be his own attorney to make some of you happy?  He's not some little nobody.  What we love that Brian produces involves financial and legal issues.  I'm glad he leaves these thing to professionals in those arenas. Let's leave this to the grown-ups, okay?

Now, I am not saying this to be smarta**, but why are you taking offense at something I stated that the other Beach Boys did/do that Brian does not? Are/Were they not composers/musicians/band members too? I was just stating the difference of what we are/were used to with the band versus the way Brian does things. I'm making no judgments here, just stating the differences.

...Let's leave this to the grown-ups, okay?

You had me up until this point. Not sure why the condescension is needed to make your point.

And I took a couple of the responses to Debbie's posts as attacking, even if they weren't intended that way, so it's entirely possible and probable that she did too.

This is where subjectivity comes into play.  When speaking of individual personalities that comprise a group it's impossible to dilute the entire group down to the lowest common denominator where everyone addresses everyone else in a type of manner which could be agreed upon by all members of the group as being non-offensive.  "Treating others the way you wish to be treated yourself" is good advice but what it does not allow for is the notion of subjectivity which demonstrates what one might find a perfectly acceptable means of conversing could very easily strike another as a post which is of an antagonizing nature.  Therefore what satisfies one forum member will more often than not fail to satisfy the next.  Which is why these situations are best taken at face value and can be analyzed as individual cases rather than painting these situations with a wide brush.  

I was far from the only person that took those posts as "attacking," so I'm not sure if your "lowest common denominator" example really works here.

And it's not very difficult to be subjective when the poster we're talking about is Debbie Kell. Is it really that hard for someone to go out of their way to be respectful if we want another person to stick around?

As someone who doesn't post often but reads this message board every day, I think the new information that special guests bring is very special. And it's something that most users with an outside view don't bring. Of course, posters with an outside view make this board readable on a daily basis.

You bring up two very good points here.  First hand knowledge is important and should be regarded as such.  It allows the forum members to access concrete knowledge and answers to questions which otherwise may be left up for speculation and opinion.  However one of the hallmarks of being able to learn from one another as a group is the ability for the members of the forum to question matters which to them don't make sense or don't jive with their viewpoints on the matter.  While knowledge is indeed power, what is in fact more powerful is the opportunity to question that knowledge in hopes of accessing truth.  Essentially one entity doesn't exist without the other.  There is of course a distinct difference between questioning someone's opinions or statements and questioning just to antagonize another party.  But once again, the differences between these two forms of questioning are usually quite evident right from the very start.  

Edit: And with that I think I'm done with this discussion as I probably haven't told anyone anything they didn't already know.  Apologies in advance for any feathers I may have ruffled in this thread as the song goes: "I sure don't wanna hurt no one"

Do you know what's more powerful than the opportunity to question? Allowing someone to stick around for more than four posts to acquire more knowledge.

You're not impressing or convincing anyone when you write a novel and then act like you're too proud to reply to a response.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Alright...this has gone on long enough. Please take the disagreements to PM, please. There's exciting things heading our way, and let's concentrate on that, shall we?

[Pretty Funky]

Alright...this has gone on long enough. Please take the disagreements to PM, please.

 

[John Manning]

Incredible, 5 star BBC review

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20140911-beach-boys-film-a-miracle

BBC Worldwide (International Site)
We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com.

Well, gosh darn…

[Pretty Funky]

Incredible, 5 star BBC review

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20140911-beach-boys-film-a-miracle

BBC Worldwide (International Site)
We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com.

Well, gosh darn…

Allow me....

The allure of a big-screen biographical drama is simple and almost childlike: in our dream scenario, we're not just watching a movie – we're stepping into a time machine until we're in the presence of Abe Lincoln, Jim Morrison or Mozart. Yet the reason biopics have always fought for respectability – when they so often seem corny – is that few of them truly transport us into the past. The actors rarely look exactly like the people they're playing; the storylines waver between the specific and the generic. Overall, they're just not that authentic.

Once in a while, though, you see a biopic that brings off something miraculous, that recreates a famous person's life with so much care that the immersion we seek is achieved. When you watch Love & Mercy, a drama about Brian Wilson, the angelic yet haunted genius of The Beach Boys, you feel like you're right there in the studio with him as he creates Pet Sounds. And it's a little like sitting next to Beethoven: the film is tender and moving, but also awe-inspiring. Paul Dano, the audacious young actor from There Will Be Blood and Little Miss Sunshine, plays Wilson in the mid-1960s, when he was becoming the greatest creative force in American pop music. The moment we see Dano in the film's daringly off-kilter opening shot, which is just Brian noodling around at the piano and talking to himself, the actor seems to transform into Wilson's very being. The pale, cute moon face, the smile with a hint of a grimace, the disarming spaciness – this isn't just acting, it's channeling of a very high order.

It gets around

Love & Mercy was co-written by Oren Moverman (along with Michael A Lerner), the co-writer of Todd Haynes' Bob Dylan fantasia I'm Not There; and it was directed by Bill Pohlad, who has mostly been a producer (of films like 12 Years a Slave, Into the Wild and Brokeback Mountain). Together, these two have come up with an innovative structure that takes on a haunting resonance. Dano plays Brian at the pivotal moment when he’d climbed to his artistic peak but, through a combination of drug use and commercial pressures began to break down. The film cuts back and forth between this inspiring and tragic saga and scenes set 20 years later, when Brian is played by John Cusack as the wreck he had become. He has placed himself under the constant care of Dr Eugene Landy (Paul Giamatti), a hustler and psychological guru who has succeeded in drawing Brian out of the depths of his depression (he'd spent three years in bed). But Landy has also, in effect, made Brian his meal ticket and prisoner, doping him up on pharmaceutical drugs. This latter-day Brian has been ‘rescued’, but only as a zombie – that is, until the day he goes shopping for a Cadillac and meets Melinda (Elizabeth Banks), who sells cars in the showroom. The two begin to date, because she sees the loving soul beneath Brian’s sadness.

It's jarring, at first, to have Wilson played by two actors. You could argue that it doesn't entirely work, since Dano, who has always been an inspired space cadet, inhabits the role as if born to it, while Cusack, dialing down his usual verbal precocity, simply doesn't look – or feel – like Brian Wilson in quite the same way: when Cusack is on screen, we're out of the time machine, back on more conventional biopic ground. Yet as staged, the story of what happened to Wilson in the '80s is still a marvel of tenderness, discovery and even suspense. Can Melinda pry Brian out of the clutches of Landy, played by Giamatti as a dictator in healer's clothing who will destroy Brian in order to save him? Cusack gives a richly subtle and moving performance, showing us an incomparable artist who's been shattered to pieces. And we want to know: how, exactly, did that happen?

Tuned in

Love & Mercy offers up the answer with delicate fascination and insight. Early on, Dano's Brian tells the other Beach Boys that he wants to stop touring with them and retreat into the recording studio.

It's a surprisingly squashed and narrow space, and as Brian records all the backing tracks, Dano is almost goofy with eagerness, his eyes popping wide, his face split by a crooked grin of joy. His performance shows that Brian was in fact a mere boy when he created his masterpiece. He was only 23, but psychologically he was younger, a kid playing with the ultimate train set.

It's when the Beach Boys return from touring, and get ready to lay down the album's vocal tracks, that conflict sets in. Mike Love, portrayed with likable vigour by Jake Abel, leads the charge against Brian: he doesn't get this dreamy slow music dipped in gorgeous LA twilight. "Even his happy songs are sad!" rails Love. And, of course, he's right: on Pet Sounds, Brian combined happiness with sadness and transformed them into the sublime. But when the album turns out to be a commercial disappointment, superficially vindicating Love's hostility toward it, Brian becomes unhinged.

The film offers a complex view of what derailed him. It follows Wilson through his piano-in-the-sandbox phase, shows how he pulled himself together to record Good Vibrations and finally, after that song's extraordinary success, it tracks his heartbreaking descent into the insanity of the Smile sessions. Each time the film cuts from Dano to Cusack, the double casting feels more right: it reveals that Brian Wilson, once he'd lost his music, lost himself. He was a different person. Love & Mercy captures how a great American artist created the musical equivalent of grace, then fell from it, yet somehow found himself – and grace – again.

★★★★★

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, gosh darn…

Alan ! Good to see you: watch out, it can get feisty here...

[John Manning]

Prettie Funkie, y'r a star!

I wonder if the BBc is integrated sufficiently well to take note of its own film reviews and snap this film up for the small screen (probably to be shown as part of some 2am early morning highbrow arts series for people who don't need jobs…).

[Mike's Beard]

Ray likes Stella Artois. Upon his recommendation, I brought a 6-er home a few weekends ago and tried one. I'll save the rest for when I show up on his doorstep with it. Ray, are you still accepting visitors?

Careful with that stuff Mikie. In the UK we call it "Stella-act-a-twat", 'cos 5 pints and you'll be acting like one. Regular wife beating juice.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Well, gosh darn…

Alan ! Good to see you: watch out, it can get feisty here...

So, it was John Manning who sang Daddy Dear!!!

[buddhahat]

This board's getting a rep as a place to avoid, and I can completely understand that.

This is something to be concerned about and address going forward. If it's not something for public viewing, anyone please feel free to contact me via private message or off the board to discuss the issues behind this.

I think an atmosphere of snarkyness has developed. I've been as my much of a part of it as any so I'm not going to point any fingers. People here are passionate and the board has always had a casual attitude to moderation so I think a more 'locker room' atmosphere was inevitable and I appreciate it suits many here. The mods devote significant amounts of their time to this place for free so I hope this doesn't come across as a criticism of them - that's not my intention.

 I have been posting a lot at the Hoffman board recently. I used to moan about the heavy handed moderation there. Hoffman has a brand to maintain and the 'gorts' don't tolerate any behaviour that might be deemed negative. Therefore if the slightest row erupts hoffman law is hammered down, posts are removed and threads are locked. Granted, this doesn't do wonders for freedom of speech but, coupled with the 'like' function, the board does feel extremely friendly. People are very civil towards one another and most threads have an overall positive tone. I have to say, it's a fun place to discuss music.

Perhaps this place might benefit from two separate boards, one that is more 'locker room' and another that is much more heavily moderated with a zero tolerance stance on rudeness, rows, whatever. At the very least you'd decrease the amount of threads that get bogged down in negativity, and it might attract some interesting insider types too.

 I appreciate this would be much more work for the mods and probably a nightmare to intitate, but for what it's worth and as guitarfool asked, those are my 2c.

[jeffcdo]

Buddhahat makes some really great points here.

[JohnMill]

This board's getting a rep as a place to avoid, and I can completely understand that.

This is something to be concerned about and address going forward. If it's not something for public viewing, anyone please feel free to contact me via private message or off the board to discuss the issues behind this.

I have been posting a lot at the Hoffman board recently. I used to moan about the heavy handed moderation there. Hoffman has a brand to maintain and the 'gorts' don't tolerate any behaviour that might be deemed negative. Therefore if the slightest row erupts hoffman law is hammered down, posts are removed and threads are locked. Granted, this doesn't do wonders for freedom of speech but, coupled with the 'like' function, the board does feel extremely friendly. People are very civil towards one another and most threads have an overall positive tone. I have to say, it's a fun place to discuss music.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that forum is heavy handed.  The thing they managed to curtail there is certain opinionated members taking over threads by aggressively arguing their point of view.  They allow everyone to say their piece but once a viewpoint has been made sufficiently any attempt to beat a dead horse or to shout one's opinion down in favor of your own is curtailed.  This is why for the record I chose not to take any responses to my last posting.  I said my peace and really have nothing left to address on that front as anything else would be a simple re-wording of what I already said.

Anyhow back to Hoffman...the forum is extremely friendly but in some ways is similar to this one.  People are civil to each other but I've also seen my fair share of "heated threads" over there as well.  Also my read on that forum (much like this one) is before entering, you should at least have some basic knowledge about what you are speaking of prior to posting.  If not you'll often be asked/told to use the "search function" to brush up on the basics so to speak.  Neither forum has ever exactly been novice/newbie friendly but in short of someone writing up a very detailed FAQ post (which would be difficult to do for this forum and impossible for that forum) the search function really is the novice's friend. 

I think your posting about having "two forums" on here actually already exists in a way as "The Sandbox" (which I rarely venture into personally) is allowed to feature more candid conversation as opposed to the main forums.  Perhaps moving some of the spicier threads in there could be an option but again I wonder if it would take away from the character of the forum essentially making the main forum for casual viewers only (encompassing much of the general public) and the other forum for serious and heated debate on The Beach Boys?

[John Manning]

Well, gosh darn…

Alan ! Good to see you: watch out, it can get feisty here...

So, it was John Manning who sang Daddy Dear!!!

I always sing that way after a beer or three, gee!

[Mikie]

We absolutely DO NOT need a heavy-handed strict board like the Hoffman. This board is just fine, thanks. The mods here are just fine, thanks. And Chuck LePage is just fine, thanks. I personally only read the Hoffman but don't feel inclined to post there. I've already been there - done that on a board moderated by someone throwing her weight around exerting the school marm attitude looking over your shoulder watching what you post all the time ready with the ruler to the knuckles. Uh, no, not any more.

By the way, notice that message board is no longer with us?? 

[onkster]

Decloaking here...I admit I've had to take "vacations" from the board from time to time because of the bickering and occasional outright attacks.

Yes, I am a passionate BB fan and do take the BB's "seriously"...but still with the attitude that it's more about fun, the joy of music, etc. I've always been of the mind that at its best, Smileysmile is a "gentlemanly" place to discuss things: there may be disagreements, but with tact and mutual respect, that needn't spoil the spirit of things. (At worst, it can be a playground tainted by bullies.)

Let's be ladies and gentlemen about things. It's important.

And now, to steer back to the actual topic, I'm finding it amazing to hear how many details from the long/amazing BB/BW story have made it into this film. Is it 4 hours long? Or just incredibly well organized? It seems almost unfathomable that so much ground can be covered in the length of a single movie.

PS--I sure wish there were a Beatles forum like this place. Haven't found one yet. (And please don't point me to the 910!)

[dellydel]

Ok, lets get back on topic!  I have a very very important question that I don't think has been addressed yet.  Perhaps the most important question of all!!!!!

How is Mike's baldness in the movie?  Is he realistically bald-ish?  Do they shave Jake Abel's hairline back a few inches??  I MUST KNOW!!!!

[guitarfool2002]

Thank you to everyone who has offered comments and suggestions so far. Please, keep em' coming! And again, if anyone is not comfortable or simply doesn't want to post it in public, drop me a line in a message or off the board.

Sometimes the only way to see what might need to be changed or revised is to get a consensus of opinions, and if there is something that many people seem to be pointing at, it suggests a priority issue that needs to be addressed.

Speaking for myself, I want to use this thread and the most resent posts to illustrate my opinion on something. Some might say bringing in the topic of board issues and comments/complaints/suggestions is going way off topic, but consider this: It's a "hot" issue that people are talking about now, based on this discussion in which some of the issues may have come up indirectly. What better place to hash things out then in a discussion where the issues are current?

Some more heavily moderated boards would have declared these sidebar conversations "off topic" and delete them. I'm not in favor of doing that to a degree, naturally there are limits. But how do people talk in real life? Is everything laser-focused on one and only one topic? Of course not, there is a natural free-flow to any interactions, and the board can successfully exist in that same way without having a strong moderation which strikes down any sidebar or even a fun off-topic detour.

However, I will chime in about the suggestions for a lesser-moderated adjunct board, or even one without moderation. I might agree on paper, but in reality it would lead to a lot of trouble, both for posters and whoever admins it.

There are simply too many issues that come up on a regular basis, which the community may not see or be aware of, that require some level of vigilance to monitor. There are attempts by spammers and hucksters to gain access to the board(s) and send spam, or even worse potentially troll for personal and contact info. These are weekly if not daily requests for membership.

There are legal issues that can arise: Copyright, interpersonal squabbles, inappropriate or illegal postings, having flame wars escalate to the level of stalking and harassment...it happens, and it can get ugly. If you offer a forum free of regular moderation, or a hands-off atmosphere, it can and will get ugly fast, and often not from regular members but from people who might come for less than upfront purposes, such as the spammers.

Re: The Sandbox. Let me get on my "soapbox" for a second...I'm not preaching, I'm not judging, I'm just offering my take. I have had issues with the Sandbox, mostly surrounding the type of posts that appear. It is a place for people to hang out, interact, share, discuss...topics that are not directly related to the BB's or music in general. Share stuff like an informal meeting, just have fun and talk. Or talk politics, religion, whatever...like real life, right?

Some of the topics started there are beyond baffling. I'm not judging, again, but commenting...I don't know what drives someone to post some of the topics that have gotten started in the Sandbox. I can say no more, other than it can be baffling to think why someone would come to a music based board and start a topic that isn't just far from music, but far from any everyday conversation I think most people in the world would engage. I'll say no more, other than the Sandbox should be a cool hangout, a place to chat and discuss and share and even laugh...beyond that, consider if some of the topics there would be appropriate in any other regular everyday conversation between people.

Sorry for the diversion, these things can and will be moved to a separate topic if requested, but again my theory is if it is a topic being currently discussed, let's hammer it out while it's still hot, and clean up afterward.  

[pixletwin]

I would like it moved to another thread. Everytime I see this one bumped I think it's something OT.

[pixletwin]

I would change the thread title to "Love and Mercy Reviews Thread" or somesuch.

[guitarfool2002]

I would change the thread title to "Love and Mercy Reviews Thread" or somesuch.

But keep it on the main board. It depends on the subject, but I've found that using the word "review" can throw water on a hot thread topic because some readers see "review" and don't care to read reviews, but instead discuss the album or show or film in their own words.

Still some stuff to work out.

[onkster]

Guitarfool, I vote initially for a "same moderation, but more self-policing" policy. If that fails, then...the spanking begins!

[pixletwin]

"Official Love and Mercy Discussion Thread"?