Did Mike ever try to get the legal right to record under the BB name (post '98)?

[CenturyDeprived]

BRI granted Mike the right to tour as “The BBs”, but I wonder if it ever crossed Mike’s mind to try and get the right to record as “The BBs”?

I’d imagine if he was able to, he’d have released “Santa’s Going to Kokomo” and “Pisces Brothers” under “The BBs” name if he could.

Was this ever something that was even on the table at the time following Carl’s passing? Was it a proposal that was rejected by BRI to somehow keep the brand name in higher esteem (or controlled by BW) for studio projects, or was it something that never crossed Mike’s mind whatsoever?  Was this a reaction to Summer In Paradise?

What do y’alls think?

[Nicko1234]

The Unleash the Love songs were very obviously written with a solo project in mind as judged by the subject material (and the fact that many of the older songs could have been issued as Beach Boys songs years ago if Mike had wished it).

[CenturyDeprived]

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? Did Mike even try to propose terms that were then rejected/outvoted?

I'm thinking that the failure of "Summer In Paradise" probably is why Mike never got the right to use the BB name for recording after Carl's passing. (I'm actually one of the few who thinks SIP is a bit underrated, only in that I kinda sorta dig about 4-5 songs as guilty pleasures). After all, if SIP had done decently, I'd imagine he'd have figured out a way to negotiate a way to have released a "BB" album post '98. He'd have some bragging rights (not that Mike's a braggart or anything like that  ) to claim that a BB album he oversaw was worthy. 

I'm just trying to understand if it was a 1998 BRI group consensus that made it impossible for this to ever happen, or if Mike himself never even attempted/wanted to try to have the legal right himself.

[Ron]

Just my opinion, Mike has always been FAR more interested in touring than recording in the studio, and he honestly believes that Brian's better in the studio than he is (and that he's better at touring than Brian). 

In Mike's mind, everything makes sense, everything's fair, and he's never done anything wrong to anybody.  So he sees it as 'fair' that Brian would basically be involved, in the studio, for it to be "The Beach Boys"... and that Mike's always been the one leading the tours so he has every right to tour under the name. 

I think once Kokomo went big, Mike felt validated (doing a Beach Boys hit that Brian didn't have anything to do with) and never felt the itch to 'out record' Brian in the studio ever again. 

I think he remembers fondly recording with Brian, Brian completely impressed him in the studio, and he wouldn't want to do a "Beach Boys" record without Brian, even though he's perfectly happy to tour without Brian as the Beach Boys (because he feels Brian isn't good at touring). 

Just my opinion. 

[Jim V.]

Just my opinion, Mike has always been FAR more interested in touring than recording in the studio, and he honestly believes that Brian's better in the studio than he is (and that he's better at touring than Brian).  

In Mike's mind, everything makes sense, everything's fair, and he's never done anything wrong to anybody.  So he sees it as 'fair' that Brian would basically be involved, in the studio, for it to be "The Beach Boys"... and that Mike's always been the one leading the tours so he has every right to tour under the name.  

I think once Kokomo went big, Mike felt validated (doing a Beach Boys hit that Brian didn't have anything to do with) and never felt the itch to 'out record' Brian in the studio ever again.  

I think he remembers fondly recording with Brian, Brian completely impressed him in the studio, and he wouldn't want to do a "Beach Boys" record without Brian, even though he's perfectly happy to tour without Brian as the Beach Boys (because he feels Brian isn't good at touring).  

Just my opinion.  

Interesting theory.

However, I think that went "Kokomo" got back, it didn't scratch the itch for Mike as far as "hanging it up" after that. Because he made Still Cruisin' and Summer in Paradise after its success, and I think that he though he had a new "formula" as evidenced by "Kokomo" rewrites like "Still Cruisin'" and a decent amount of the stuff on SiP. Unfortunately for Mike, "Kokomo" was just lightning in a bottle, and the dismal chart showing and horrendous reviews for Summer in Paradise showed the public had no appetite for any of this kinda stuff by the early '90s. And to think, he wanted to name the Beach Boys follow up album Masterpiece! Good God!!

But anyways, while for the most part I feel that he let go of recording as The Beach Boys (unless Brian was there) after Carl died. However, we must remember that around this time was the release the all-time classic Mike Love, Bruce "Beach Lover, NASCAR Lover" Johnston & David Marks of the Beach Boys Salute NASCAR, which although credited to those three individually, sure seems like it was designed to fool consumers into thinking they were buying a "Beach Boys" album. I mean, look at the cover art....



It's surely not a coincidence that the name "Beach Boys" is featured very, very prominently. So while I'd say maybe Mike wasn't chompin' at the bit to record new stuff as "The Beach Boys", if he had his way, I'm sure he woulda been just fine with making new "Beach Boys" albums without any other Beach Boys.

[D409]

Quote from Bittersweet Insanity : The Fight For Brian Wilson's Soul by Bill Holdship

"Even though the Brian-less Beach Boys scored a hit with Kokomo in 1988 at the same time that Brian's critically acclaimed debut solo LP failed to make a huge dent in the Billboard charts, the Beach Boys have managed to release one song in the year and a half since they named Mike Love "recording captain" - an embarrassing version of Crocodile Rock for the Elton John-Bernie Taupin tribute LP Two Rooms. Brian wasn't invited to the sessions."

This article was written in 1991, so Mike obviously tried to record under the BB's name in the wake of Kokomo without much success. Did BRI really appoint him "recording captain", though ?

[CenturyDeprived]

Quote from Bittersweet Insanity : The Fight For Brian Wilson's Soul by Bill Holdship

"Even though the Brian-less Beach Boys scored a hit with Kokomo in 1988 at the same time that Brian's critically acclaimed debut solo LP failed to make a huge dent in the Billboard charts, the Beach Boys have managed to release one song in the year and a half since they named Mike Love "recording captain" - an embarrassing version of Crocodile Rock for the Elton John-Bernie Taupin tribute LP Two Rooms. Brian wasn't invited to the sessions."

This article was written in 1991, so Mike obviously tried to record under the BB's name in the wake of Kokomo without much success. Did BRI really appoint him "recording captain", though ?

That's what I'm curious about too. Obviously Mike was "recording captain" of SIP, and I have to think that this album happened because of the "cred" he earned or at least claimed was his in the wake of "Kokomo".

Mike clearly was attempting to lead the charge in a recording/writing capacity (with an assist by Terry Melcher, but Mike was surely boss)... was SIP's failure the reason that he never achieved that "recording captain" position again, and was that entirely by choice?

I know Mike prefers the relative safety and risk aversion of touring the hits, without risk of criticism of subpar BB studio work blamed on him, but I guess what I'm wondering is: would Mike have gone back to the studio post SIP at any point (sans Brian involvement), recording as "The BBs" if he'd had the opportunity to do so?

[Nicko1234]

Quote from Bittersweet Insanity : The Fight For Brian Wilson's Soul by Bill Holdship

"Even though the Brian-less Beach Boys scored a hit with Kokomo in 1988 at the same time that Brian's critically acclaimed debut solo LP failed to make a huge dent in the Billboard charts, the Beach Boys have managed to release one song in the year and a half since they named Mike Love "recording captain" - an embarrassing version of Crocodile Rock for the Elton John-Bernie Taupin tribute LP Two Rooms. Brian wasn't invited to the sessions."

This article was written in 1991, so Mike obviously tried to record under the BB's name in the wake of Kokomo without much success. Did BRI really appoint him "recording captain", though ?

That's what I'm curious about too. Obviously Mike was "recording captain" of SIP, and I have to think that this album happened because of the "cred" he earned or at least claimed was his in the wake of "Kokomo".

Mike clearly was attempting to lead the charge in a recording/writing capacity (with an assist by Terry Melcher, but Mike was surely boss)... was SIP's failure the reason that he never achieved that "recording captain" position again, and was that entirely by choice?

I know Mike prefers the relative safety and risk aversion of touring the hits, without risk of criticism of subpar BB studio work blamed on him, but I guess what I'm wondering is: would Mike have gone back to the studio post SIP at any point (sans Brian involvement), recording as "The BBs" if he'd had the opportunity to do so?

If a major record label had been willing to release it then very possibly. But I haven`t heard any rumours of that nature.

I think the `release` of the Nascar CD shows that if he was offered the right business deal that Mike would release something as `Mike Love of the Beach Boys`. Releasing entirely new product as `The Beach Boys` would be an entirely different thing from issuing some Adrian Baker remakes though.

[HeyJude]

I think there was simply a point where, for the most part, the Beach Boys stopped being a fully-functioning band that does what bands typically do, which is release albums and tour. By the 80’s, they had clearly stopped prioritizing recording. In, say, 1973, or even 1979, the Beach Boys could still be seen as a “recording group” who also toured. By the mid-late 80’s, and certainly the 90’s and onward, they were, to put it most sympathetically, a band that primarily toured and then occasionally did some studio work. A more cynical view would be that, at a certain stage, the Beach Boys were largely a registered trademark under which a group of musicians toured.

I think the late 80’s and early-mid 90’s were simply some final attempts at taking a stab at it again. The success of “Kokomo” probably fueled “Still Cruisin’” (both in terms of creating a motivation to do an album, and in terms of hooking Capitol into a one-shot record deal). As for “Summer in Paradise”, I don’t think Mike spearheading that album in 1992 was anything like what would occur today. He apparently had the support of enough additional group members to get “SIP” made. I’m not sure how much Brian knew or cared or had any say in whether “SIP” came out. All the other BB’s appear on it, which would imply even if he was against it, he was outvoted. In 1992, he was also in the midst of being extracted from the Landy situation, so I don’t know how he or a potential conservator might have played a role in having any say. I would imagine “SIP” got made because the other voting members of the group either willingly or begrudgingly rolled over and handed over artistic control to Mike.

Recently re-reading some bits of the Usher “Wilson Project” book, it appears that even into 1987, the group saw themselves as a viable recording group to some degree, so much so that they saw fit to specifically hold meetings on the subject and outline, at one stage, that Brian was “out” as the group’s producer and Terry Melcher was “in.”

Simply put though, presently Mike would need approval and/or a different license to record under the BB name. As others have pointed out, I think he has very little interest in doing this in any event. He does seem to see the touring band as his bailiwick.

I would also guess, especially now, that he would not so easily obtain a license from BRI to release an album under the BB name. I’m not as certain Brian would agree to that at this stage. The cost/benefit ratio would be nothing like it is for the touring setup. An album under ideal circumstances with all five members would not necessarily be a huge moneymaker. So an album with only Mike and Bruce (both in terms of writing and selling power) would likely do even more poorly, and could potentially result in damaging reviews as well.

[Cyncie]

Then, there's the record company factor. Post Kokomo, they may have been willing to take a risk on a Brian-less Beach Boys album. But, with Mike unable to follow that up with anything else, we may have reverted to Pre-Kokomo status of "No Brian, no Beach Boys."

[Wirestone]

Given that Brian has consistently released albums on major labels -- and indeed, put the C50 record deal together without the rest of the group -- this sure seems like a big factor.

[Steve Latshaw]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

[Wirestone]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

Well, Al was off at behavior modification camp or something along those lines during much of the recording, IIRC.

[HeyJude]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

Well, Al was off at behavior modification camp or something along those lines during much of the recording, IIRC.

 

I've always wondered what the deal was with Al around that time. We pretty much have that one Mike interview from Goldmine where he talks a bit about Al's issues. I also recall reading there may have been an issue with tinnitus, but that seems unclear.

Listening to "SIP" years later, while Carl and Al's vocals (and a small handful of decent/catchy compositions) are the saving grace of the album, I was surprised by how awful and dated the production is. The production on this album, especially the "drums" (not sure how much of the drums are real), sounds more fake and dated than even the '85 album in most cases. I don't know how much has to do with perhaps low sampling rates or something used on that very early-era ProTools recording setup. But the whole thing sounds very shrill, thin, tinny, etc. Even the cheesy 80's synths on the '85 album somehow have more warmth sonically.

Seriously, just about anything else they did in 5-10 years before or after that album sounds so much better sonically. That's not even getting into the compositions.

[guitarfool2002]

Keep in mind that going back to the band's first attempts to shop for a new label after the Capitol agreement was up, Brian's participation was a key factor to the point where the contracts going back to those early Warner/Reprise negotiations stipulated that he would have to be involved to a certain degree in the recording process, or else there was no deal. And even into the later 70's, the band had to tempt potential "buyers" with things like the Smile tapes and Brian's involvement in the process in order to wrangle better offers from bigger labels.

That's all recorded history, but important to note because when Brian was definitely not involved in an album project, and publicly so, the results were Summer In Paradise which did nothing to capitalize on the MTV/single/soundtrack success of Kokomo, in fact it could be argued the album took whatever momentum and value it had given the Beach Boys brand name and squandered it.

Forward to That's Why God Made The Radio - The deal was struck, Brian was actively on board, the album goes top 5 on the charts.

It's pretty simple logic from a sales/value perspective, when Brian is involved in a Beach Boys project along with original members, it has many times the value to labels and sales potential than when he is not. And I think it would be a hard sell if not an impossible one in 2014 and beyond (and going back to the 90's) to shop a Beach Boys album without Brian Wilson's name on it somewhere. In fact there is probably no desire to even consider shopping such a project as long as the band members are still active because the interest wouldn't be there.

[Dancing Bear]

Ok, now we're debating Mike's ulterior motives IF he decided to record a new BB album by himself.

Next: let's debate Al Jardine's pathos if he decided to become a serial killer.

[Robbie Mac]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

Say that again, Steve? SIP did not start out as a Beach Boys album?

[Andrew G. Doe]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

Well, Al was off at behavior modification camp or something along those lines during much of the recording, IIRC.

Alan was 'suspended' from the band due to a serious attitude problem. There was a band meeting, issues were addressed and and he made his contributions to the album.

Given that Brian has consistently released albums on major labels -- and indeed, put the C50 record deal together without the rest of the group -- this sure seems like a big factor.

Uh... Brian didn't put together the TSS/TWGMTR/C50 package together all on his own. That's my understanding, anyway.

[Lowbacca]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

Say that again, Steve? SIP did not start out as a Beach Boys album?

I did not know that either. Then again, I'm not the biggest BBs historian.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

Say that again, Steve? SIP did not start out as a Beach Boys album?

I did not know that either. Then again, I'm not the biggest BBs historian.

I haven't heard that before either.  I'd be interested to hear about this in more detail.

[Wirestone]

As I recall, Summer in Paradise did not start out as a Beach Boys album.  It began as a Mike Love/Terry Melcher/Bruce Johnston recording project, with the idea of making the ultimate "summer album."  Gradually, Carl was coerced or persuaded to participate, and then Al made his small contributions.  It sort of stumbled into becoming a Beach Boys album as the others came in.

Well, Al was off at behavior modification camp or something along those lines during much of the recording, IIRC.

Alan was 'suspended' from the band due to a serious attitude problem. There was a band meeting, issues were addressed and and he made his contributions to the album.

Yes, thus my poor attempt at a joke.

Given that Brian has consistently released albums on major labels -- and indeed, put the C50 record deal together without the rest of the group -- this sure seems like a big factor.

Uh... Brian didn't put together the TSS/TWGMTR/C50 package together all on his own. That's my understanding, anyway.

You'd probably want to add the new solo record to that. It's my understanding it's part of the deal as well.

And yes, Joe helped put that all together, probably along with Melinda. As with most rock stars, when you say someone -- like Elton John, let's say -- makes a deal with their label, it's assumed they are not actually doing the business (or even conceptual) side on their own. But it's simply long-winded to add that it was actually done by Frank Presland and Johnny Barbis along with David Furnish (in EJ's case).

The point, I guess, is that Brian's camp put the deal together.

[Jim V.]

Uh... Brian didn't put together the TSS/TWGMTR/C50 package together all on his own. That's my understanding, anyway.

That really interesting Joe Thomas interview from 2012 actually did say that it basically was Brian that first called him up to check out the material they put together in the '90s, and then also that it was Brian who brought a tape of four songs (including "Summer's Gone) to the Capitol Tower to see if they'd be interested in a new Beach Boys album. So if indeed Joe was telling the truth, then Brian did in fact have a hand in that whole deal.

[HeyJude]

Ok, now we're debating Mike's ulterior motives IF he decided to record a new BB album by himself.

I think it's a discussion about whether Mike has attempted or considered recording such an album. I suppose that would include a discussion of motives. Not so much ulterior. If he wanted to record a BB album, I think the motive would be pretty obvious as it is with any artist.

I think the discussion also concerns more whether he would be able to record such an album.

It's not a crazy scenario. The SIP album isn't too far removed from such a scenario.

[Wirestone]

Uh... Brian didn't put together the TSS/TWGMTR/C50 package together all on his own. That's my understanding, anyway.

That really interesting Joe Thomas interview from 2012 actually did say that it basically was Brian that first called him up to check out the material they put together in the '90s, and then also that it was Brian who brought a tape of four songs (including "Summer's Gone) to the Capitol Tower to see if they'd be interested in a new Beach Boys album. So if indeed Joe was telling the truth, then Brian did in fact have a hand in that whole deal.

AGD would likely point out the key phrase in his response is "all on his own." So Brian definitely had a hand in it, but the deal was bigger than just a new BB album, and had many more moving pieces. And, like most rock stars, he didn't work it all out himself.

[Lowbacca]

It's not a crazy scenario. The SIP album isn't too far removed from such a scenario.

Factor in 'Celebration' and similar projects, and it's pretty obvious he's always tried to milk the BBs brand (not the brand name, but the conceptual brand) for what it's worth. Which is understandable. To quote HeyJude, "I think the motive would be pretty obvious as it is with any artist." It's an aspect (of varying degree, to be fair) of all the other solo/side careers, as well. Although at the end of the day, ML is probably the most commercially oriented of all the Boys. And the big bucks come in if something is labeled "The Beach Boys".