The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread

[Niko]

John was a great (rhythm) guitarist. Focus on what he's playing on stuff like Can't Buy Me Love. It's dirty and strong.

[18thofMay]

I'll really dive into it:

• He failed to acknowledge that he had a wife, as to not put off his female fan base.
• He beat and cheated on his wife.
• He beat up a friend for jokingly saying that he was gay. John said “he called me a queer, so I battered his bloody ribs in.”
• He apparently had an affair with Brian Epstein, and then proceeded to mock Brian for being gay.
• He also made fun of him for being Jewish.
• He suggested the titles Queer Jew and A Cellarful of Boys as Epstein's biography titles.
• He had no relationship with his son, Julian, most likely because he was illegitimate.
• When he died, he left "very little" (according to Julian) to him in his will.

Pressures of fame, my ass.



Don't get me wrong, I like John. But, saying he wasn't a prick just doesn't make sense to me.

"apparently" had an affair with Brian.... Unconfirmed-never will be, did not happen!

[RangeRoverA1]

John was a great (rhythm) guitarist. Focus on what he's playing on stuff like Can't Buy Me Love. It's dirty and strong.

One of the mods of our Beatles site, a big fan of John said that he's an awful lead guitarist. Bob said it as a musician who knows everything about guitars & gives an objective opinion on music in general (regardless of taste). If I get it right, rhythm guitar is sth. else entirely, both by methods of playing & sound. So maybe it's where John is more comfy.

[Niko]

Johns had some great lead moments. Honey Pie is a good solo. Also some Let It Be stuff. He didn't do a lot if lead guitar but I've always liked his playing when he does play lead.

[Ron]

He beat his wife.
That's a strong case for being an asshole.

That's a good point, but I think there's a marked difference between 1965 John Lennon and 1972 John Lennon. 

[Ron]

John was a great (rhythm) guitarist. Focus on what he's playing on stuff like Can't Buy Me Love. It's dirty and strong.

One of the mods of our Beatles site, a big fan of John said that he's an awful lead guitarist. Bob said it as a musician who knows everything about guitars & gives an objective opinion on music in general (regardless of taste). If I get it right, rhythm guitar is sth. else entirely, both by methods of playing & sound. So maybe it's where John is more comfy.

I always liked John's guitar playing.

[alf wiedersehen]

"Julia" is made up of a basic finger-style pattern that Donovan taught him.

[Ron]

Oh, o.k., I'll edit that out then. 

[pixletwin]

Some folks in here apparently take the Goldman biography (a rotten piece of writing) as if it's the bible.

[halblaineisgood]

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[halblaineisgood]

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[the captain]

People who want to call other people stupid should spell properly. It might boost credibility in the area of intelligence. But I agree about the music focus.

Lennon isn't nearly as high on my list as he is on many others' in that respect. He was an integral part of some hugely important music--the world doesn't need me to say that--but he's at best the second-most talented Beatle, musically speaking. He did have a charisma, both in personality and the personality of his music, that made his best work affecting.

But in my opinion, he's overrated as an individual musician (and lyricist). I love some of his work and am a fan. But he's just an interesting rock n roller to me.

[pixletwin]

That was my impression too halblaineisgod. It reminds me of kids who watch themselves smoke. 

I like John's guitar playing. His leads weren't slick or graceful like Paul and George's. But they rocked.

[halblaineisgood]

.

[alf wiedersehen]

"apparently" had an affair with Brian.... Unconfirmed-never will be, did not happen!

That's beside the point, really.

Some folks in here apparently take the Goldman biography (a rotten piece of writing) as if it's the bible.

I've never heard of this book, let alone read it.

Some folks here apparently think that because they're young whippersnappers they can "shock" all the old -timers (+Gabo)

I have no interest in shocking you, I just think John was a dick.

But in my opinion, he's overrated as an individual musician (and lyricist). I love some of his work and am a fan. But he's just an interesting rock n roller to me.

I agree that people tend to overrate him. I think he's more remembered for being a martyr than he is a musician.

[pixletwin]

"apparently" had an affair with Brian.... Unconfirmed-never will be, did not happen!

That's beside the point, really.

Some folks in here apparently take the Goldman biography (a rotten piece of writing) as if it's the bible.

I've never heard of this book, let alone read it.

Some folks here apparently think that because they're young whippersnappers they can "shock" all the old -timers (+Gabo)

I have no interest in shocking you, I just think John was a dick.

But in my opinion, he's overrated as an individual musician (and lyricist). I love some of his work and am a fan. But he's just an interesting rock n roller to me.

I agree that people tend to overrate him. I think he's more remembered for being a martyr than he is a musician.

1) Then you are basing all your stories on 3rd and 4th hand accounts. Ok then.
2)  John was a dick.
3) You think he is overrated more for being shot to death rather than having been the nucleus and founder of the biggest rock group in history?
4) You are very young.

[alf wiedersehen]

1) Then you are basing all your stories on 3rd and 4th hand accounts. Ok then.

Aren't we all? It's not like any of us have actually talked to John, his wives, Paul, George, Ringo, or Brian Epstein.

2)  John was a dick.

Right...

3) You think he is overrated more for being shot to death rather than having been the nucleus and founder of the biggest rock group in history?

Yes, he died a tragic death while promoting peace. He's become a symbol and a martyr for the cause.
When he died, his album that was getting tepid reviews won album of the year.

4) You are very young.

Entirely irrelevant. Please don't cite age as if that somehow means anything.

[pixletwin]

Age means a lot when it comes to forming opinions. I apologize if this unsettles you.

[alf wiedersehen]

Apology accepted.

[pixletwin]

Apology accepted.

 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It's not like any of us have actually talked to John, his wives, Paul, George, Ringo, or Brian Epstein.

No, but those who have tend to de-legitimize several of the points that you have made about John in this thread.

Take for example the claim that he "beat his wife." The latest magnum opus on The Beatles written by the great Mark Lewisohn puts it this way:

December 1959 was John and Cyn's first Christmas together, and they'd only just made it one piece. Though regularly unfaithful himself, John was manically insecure about Cyn's fidelity and one day became so enraged in his belief that she'd considered another man, he slapped her. The exact circumstances have varied with retelling, but it seems John heard Cyn had danced with a man at a party; the next day he followed her into the ladies' toilet at college, accused her, and lashed out. Cyn was found crying by her best friend  Phyllis McKenzie - 'Apparently, he'd slapped her face. I though, 'He's a right bastard.' And that did worry me. He could be very cruel.
...
Cyn was encouraged by friends to break off the relationship and did for a short while - until John apologized and swore he'd never strike her again. In 2005 she wrote, 'John was true to his word, he was never again physically violent to me.'

Quoted from The Beatles: All These Years, Tune In, 2013. Page 241.

Now, this quotation certainly does not portray Lennon in the best light. There is, of course, no excuse for Lennon was abusive this one time to Cynthia before their marriage. Nevertheless, as this quotation suggests, there is no evidence to support the claim that Lennon beat his wife. Not only is the claim a false one but it suggest something worse than the admittedly unfortunate reality of what was really the case.

[pixletwin]

"I use to be cruel to my woman I beat here and kept her apart from the things that she loved.
Man I was mean, but I'm changing my scene and I'm doing the best that I can."

I think the cruelest story about John that really effected how I looked at him was when Julian was playing with a friend when John had invited them for a visit in sometime in 1979. Julian was quite a sensitive child and it took a lot for him to come out of his shell (especially if John was around).

Anyways, Julian and others were making Mickey Mouse pancakes, having fun and Julian giggled. For whatever reason, John slammed into Julian verbally telling him he had horrible laugh and he never wanted to hear him laugh like that again. Apparently even after that, John continued to verbally abuse him until Julian retreated to his bedroom in tears. Years later he said he took him a long time to laugh out loud without hearing those words in his head.

So yeah, Lennon could be a really terrible person. Nothing particularly new there.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

"I use to be cruel to my woman I beat here and kept her apart from the things that she loved.
Man I was mean, but I'm changing my scene and I'm doing the best that I can."

Yep - the fact is that we know much of the brutal truths about John because John himself told us about them.

The great Lewisohn book by the way insinuates that in that first line he was probably thinking more about his earlier girlfriend Thelma Pickles than he was about Cynthia.

[alf wiedersehen]

"I use to be cruel to my woman I beat here and kept her apart from the things that she loved.
Man I was mean, but I'm changing my scene and I'm doing the best that I can."

Yep - the fact is that we know much of the brutal truths about John because John himself told us about them.

Pretty sure those are Paul lyrics.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

"I use to be cruel to my woman I beat here and kept her apart from the things that she loved.
Man I was mean, but I'm changing my scene and I'm doing the best that I can."

Yep - the fact is that we know much of the brutal truths about John because John himself told us about them.

Pretty sure those are Paul lyrics.

That would be incorrect. Most are in agreement that Lennon wrote that part of Getting Better.