Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

12 tracks. Namely these:

Prayer
H&V
Wonderful
Holidays
Cabin Essence
Fire
Child

Good Vibrations
Wind Chimes
Look
Vegetables
Worms
Surfs Up

No tinkering, no cross-fades, no forced inclusions. I've finally found the perfect lineup...FOR ME.

What versions of the songs, Bubba?

Prayer - standard
H&V - cantina
Wonderful - standard (with or without yodel, don't matter)
Holidays - standard backing track
Cabin Essence - standard
The Elements (Fire) standard track with sound effects. Includes H&V intro (tight edit from whistle into main track- I know it's historically wrong but it works)
Child - BW 2:50 edit (chorus/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus)

GV- standard
Wind Chimes - SS box set edit, no extended intro
Look - standard track, no fly-ins
Vegetables - SS box set edit, no extended intro
Worms - both verses with complete backing harmonies (only on verse 2 on boxes), bicycle rider choruses inserted.
Surfs Up - box set version with BW lead (though I should probably use BW solo).

Guilty confession - I like my Smile in full stereo (using box set I have all of the above in stereo except for Wonderful and H&V verses).

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Thanks, Bubba. I can almost reconstruct this with what I already have on hand. Much appreciated

[Micha]

OK, now here's my current 12 track lineup:

A

1. You're Welcome
2. H&V
3. Cabin Essence
4. DYLW
5. Holidays

6. Wonderful
7. SFC/Look

B

1. CIFOTM
2. Surf's Up

3. The Elements (V-T/ILTSDD/WC/MOLC)

4. Prayer
5. Good Vibrations


Some unintended things that happened when i compiled this:

- Side A ends with the Look part that was recycled near the ending of GV, thus the theme is featured near the end of side B too, which I would swear was intentional if this wasn't just my invention but instead had the album come out like this.
- Using my own edits of the songs, both sides were just over 22 1/2 minutes long each, just a few seconds difference.
- The SU lines about children's songs are followed by Vega-Tables which actually is a quite childlike song.

The only famous SMiLE piece I found no place for was IWBA/Workshop, but I don't really miss it. IIGS, Barnyard and OMP are incorporated in H&V.

[soniclovenoize]

http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/86737238/file.html

^ For the last two weeks I've been listening to this, just the "Capitol Sequence", and it's really interesting.  When I first got into SMiLE back in 2001 I dismissed this sequence quickly so I never really sat and listened to it.  But on the other hand, I wasn't able to fully "complete" all twelve songs as we are now, so that's kind of a different story now.

But this sequence--the handwritten list--is really interesting because it it begins quite well (Our Prayer -> Worms -> Wind Chimes), and it has a fun ending (Vege-Tables -> OMP).  But the rest seems disjointed and not so cohesive.  But yet it's pretty fun because it's so different to what I am used to...  But what's really interesting is that it takes everything out of context...  And by context, it's the mythos we have all created for SMiLE over the years.  There is no over-arching theme or suites or any interconnected songs at all.  It's just simply an album of 12 songs, even moreso than my "1967" mix each song will fail or thrive based on their own merits.  And of course the whole second side is scatterbrained and unfinished, and is like three minutes shorter than the first. 

But I'm thinking about it, and whose to say that we all have been thinking about SMiLE correctly all these years?  Have we perhaps been perpetuating myths that never existed nor would have happened...  What if this was SMiLE?  What if it was disjointed?  idk about you, but I've always felt Smiley Smile as a bit like that, pretty disjointed.  Maybe SMiLE was simply a really produced Smiley Smile rather than this huge epic? 

[Summertime Blooz]

http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/86737238/file.html

^ For the last two weeks I've been listening to this, just the "Capitol Sequence", and it's really interesting.  When I first got into SMiLE back in 2001 I dismissed this sequence quickly so I never really sat and listened to it.  But on the other hand, I wasn't able to fully "complete" all twelve songs as we are now, so that's kind of a different story now.

But this sequence--the handwritten list--is really interesting because it it begins quite well (Our Prayer -> Worms -> Wind Chimes), and it has a fun ending (Vege-Tables -> OMP).  But the rest seems disjointed and not so cohesive.  But yet it's pretty fun because it's so different to what I am used to...  But what's really interesting is that it takes everything out of context...  And by context, it's the mythos we have all created for SMiLE over the years.  There is no over-arching theme or suites or any interconnected songs at all.  It's just simply an album of 12 songs, even moreso than my "1967" mix each song will fail or thrive based on their own merits.  And of course the whole second side is scatterbrained and unfinished, and is like three minutes shorter than the first. 

But I'm thinking about it, and whose to say that we all have been thinking about SMiLE correctly all these years?  Have we perhaps been perpetuating myths that never existed nor would have happened...  What if this was SMiLE?  What if it was disjointed?  idk about you, but I've always felt Smiley Smile as a bit like that, pretty disjointed.  Maybe SMiLE was simply a really produced Smiley Smile rather than this huge epic? 

There's something liberating about using the Capitol sequence.  As you say, it allows you to let go of your personal notions. Good or bad as you may look upon it, it's the only evidence out there  for how a 66/67 Smile would have been sequenced.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Something I've never seen discussed is how the final track on the handwritten list - (The Old Master Painter) - first has parentheses and then they are crossed out. You know that had to mean SOMETHING!

[soniclovenoize]

Something I've never seen discussed is how the final track on the handwritten list - (The Old Master Painter) - first has parentheses and then they are crossed out. You know that had to mean SOMETHING!

My best guess is that the orignal title would have been "(The Old Master Painter) You Are My Sunshine" but it was scratched out and simplified as "The Old master Painter". 

[SenorPotatoHead]

I like the Capitol sequence.  It may seem a bit disjointed, as was stated, but it isn't all that much really, to me anyway.  It makes me wonder, what if some snippets from the humor sketches were used as brief interludes between the songs (I know this idea has been mentioned recently on here, and Brian himself seemed to have said as much back in the day) - would it provide more of an initial sense of "flow"?  
However, listening to this sequence as i currently am, it strikes me that...well, that I like it very much indeed!    Even without any between song "humor".   

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I like the Capitol sequence.  It may seem a bit disjointed, as was stated, but it isn't all that much really, to me anyway.  It makes me wonder, what if some snippets from the humor sketches were used as brief interludes between the songs (I know this idea has been mentioned recently on here, and Brian himself seemed to have said as much back in the day) - would it provide more of an initial sense of "flow"?  
However, listening to this sequence as i currently am, it strikes me that...well, that I like it very much indeed!   Even without any between song "humor".  

You and soniclovenoize have just said what I've been saying this whole time. Not about using the Capitol sequence, but about using snippets from the comedy skits and the 'revelation' that everything we think we know about SMiLE is mostly echoing speculation that's been repeated so long it's taken as fact. I'm replying to you specifically tho, because you've given me an awesome idea. Someone should edit together the Capitol sequence using Psychedelic Sounds pieces to bridge and occasionally flesh out the songs. I may try my hand at it at some point, but someone else can and should try their hand as well. Could be really cool. Perhaps as close as possible to Brian's original intent. Any fanmix that isn't "BWPS...with a few slight alterations" is awesome in my book.

[Phoenix]

Something I've never seen discussed is how the final track on the handwritten list - (The Old Master Painter) - first has parentheses and then they are crossed out. You know that had to mean SOMETHING!

My best guess is that the orignal title would have been "(The Old Master Painter) You Are My Sunshine" but it was scratched out and simplified as "The Old master Painter". 

I always took it the same way but with "Barnyard" or "Barnyard Suite" instead.

[Micha]

Something I've never seen discussed is how the final track on the handwritten list - (The Old Master Painter) - first has parentheses and then they are crossed out. You know that had to mean SOMETHING!

I mention this every time the list is discussed but never ever anyone pays any attention to that. To me it is proof that the list was being thought about while it was written down and thus it can't be a final thought out and decided line-up. "What else can we put on the list? That's only 11 tracks so far. Old Master Painter. Sure? Really? Maybe rather not? (Puts it in parentheses) Aw, it OK, cross them out again."

[soniclovenoize]

There can be dozens of logical explanations to why it was crossed out... Could have been what I said above that the writer was going to call it My only Sunshine but then didn't; maybe whomever wrote it misinterpreted dictation from BW; maybe it was added accidentally; maybe it was originally meant to denote that title was a cover, but then realized that's dumb...  It doesn't have to rule it out unless you are specifically looking for reasons to rule it out.

This is what I was talking about earlier in the thread, where you and I would have to agree to disagree.  I feel you are using selective logic in order to find a specific answer you already wanted. 

[Phoenix]

I mention this every time the list is discussed but never ever anyone pays any attention to that. To me it is proof that the list was being thought about while it was written down and thus it can't be a final thought out and decided line-up. "What else can we put on the list? That's only 11 tracks so far. Old Master Painter. Sure? Really? Maybe rather not? (Puts it in parentheses) Aw, it OK, cross them out again."

The list was made, regardless of who wrote it for Capitol, with the express reason of creating a tracklisting for the back cover.  To me, that says it was about "thought out and final" than almost anything else in terms of Smile; at least before the album was officially scrapped.  As I and others are saying, the parenthesis more than likely indicate that Brian was still deciding what call that finished combination of pieces before he or someone else decided, "Well they need a final list of songs and "The Old Master Painter" is as good a name as anything else so we're just gonna go with it and lose the parenthesis."

[Cam Mott]

I mention this every time the list is discussed but never ever anyone pays any attention to that. To me it is proof that the list was being thought about while it was written down and thus it can't be a final thought out and decided line-up. "What else can we put on the list? That's only 11 tracks so far. Old Master Painter. Sure? Really? Maybe rather not? (Puts it in parentheses) Aw, it OK, cross them out again."

The list was made, regardless of who wrote it for Capitol, with the express reason of creating a tracklisting for the back cover.  To me, that says it was about "thought out and final" than almost anything else in terms of Smile; at least before the album was officially scrapped.  As I and others are saying, the parenthesis more than likely indicate that Brian was still deciding what call that finished combination of pieces before he or someone else decided, "Well they need a final list of songs and "The Old Master Painter" is as good a name as anything else so we're just gonna go with it and lose the parenthesis."

I agree, the list was proofed so that also tells me any scratch outs on the list were only indecision on how to title the song not indecision about whether the song.

[soniclovenoize]

I mean think about it from a monetary aspect: How much $$ was sunk into pressing up slick proofs?  I've read it before...

If you were a Capitol exec, essentially funding BW/VDP's experiments and spending $$ to make artwork proofs, wouldn't you want to have a correct tracklist for that?  I'd be pretty pissed if it wasn't accurate, as if my artist was biting the hand that feeds him. 

[yonderhillside]

10 Tracks w/ a bunch of add-ins


1.) Heroes & Villains
Bag of Tricks Intro  (revised edit)
H&V Part 1 (sln 1967 mix)
IIGS (revised edit)
Barnyard
DYLW?
H&V Part 2 (MiC)
H&V Outro
2.) OMP
3.) Cabinessence
4.) Vege-Tables
5.) Wind Chimes (smiley smile[personal preference])
Workshop ("just tools" edit)
"Psychedelic Sounds: Moaning-Laughing" (revised edit)
6.) Fire
Fire Outro
7.) Water Chant
8.) Wonderful
Love To Say Dada ("just dada" edit)
9.) CIFOTM
George Fell.. ("just horns" edit)
10.) Surf's Up

Damn I just thought of something - anyone ever considered mixing "Our Prayer" and "Bag of Tricks"(alleged H&V Intro) together? I would, but lack the skills. I imagine it would be equal parts demented & divine.

[Rocket]

I like the Capitol sequence.  It may seem a bit disjointed, as was stated, but it isn't all that much really, to me anyway.  It makes me wonder, what if some snippets from the humor sketches were used as brief interludes between the songs (I know this idea has been mentioned recently on here, and Brian himself seemed to have said as much back in the day) - would it provide more of an initial sense of "flow"?  
However, listening to this sequence as i currently am, it strikes me that...well, that I like it very much indeed!   Even without any between song "humor".  

You and soniclovenoize have just said what I've been saying this whole time. Not about using the Capitol sequence, but about using snippets from the comedy skits and the 'revelation' that everything we think we know about SMiLE is mostly echoing speculation that's been repeated so long it's taken as fact. I'm replying to you specifically tho, because you've given me an awesome idea. Someone should edit together the Capitol sequence using Psychedelic Sounds pieces to bridge and occasionally flesh out the songs. I may try my hand at it at some point, but someone else can and should try their hand as well. Could be really cool. Perhaps as close as possible to Brian's original intent. Any fanmix that isn't "BWPS...with a few slight alterations" is awesome in my book.

I would really love to hear this! If you can make it and put it on YouTube, that'd be awesome! I enjoyed your Aquarian Mix quite a bit, I'd like to see this mix as well.

[alf wiedersehen]

Continuing with the track list printed up by Capital, the the small print says "see label for correct playing order."
This seems to me like it's a correct list of the songs, just that it hadn't been properly sequenced yet.

[Summertime Blooz]

Continuing with the track list printed up by Capital, the the small print says "see label for correct playing order."
This seems to me like it's a correct list of the songs, just that it hadn't been properly sequenced yet.

   To me, it seems like that was put in there because the album was still a work in progress and BW wanted to reserve the right to make last minute changes to the run order if he so desired. He didn't want to cut off his options. I don't interpret that inclusion to imply that the sequence  of the list was in no way representative of BW's intentions for the final product. On the contrary, I think there was a sincere effort to list the songs in the order that BW (at that moment at least) expected the songs to be on the album. Otherwise, why is Good Vibrations, the biggest song on the planet at the time, placed as #5 on the list? Because the other song titles sprang to mind more quickly? Come on now. I find it odd that some people believe that, but then again, who really knows, right?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Continuing with the track list printed up by Capital, the the small print says "see label for correct playing order."
This seems to me like it's a correct list of the songs, just that it hadn't been properly sequenced yet.

   To me, it seems like that was put in there because the album was still a work in progress and BW wanted to reserve the right to make last minute changes to the run order if he so desired. He didn't want to cut off his options. I don't interpret that inclusion to imply that the sequence  of the list was in no way representative of BW's intentions for the final product. On the contrary, I think there was a sincere effort to list the songs in the order that BW (at that moment at least) expected the songs to be on the album. Otherwise, why is Good Vibrations, the biggest song on the planet at the time, placed as #5 on the list? Because the other song titles sprang to mind more quickly? Come on now. I find it odd that some people believe that, but then again, who really knows, right?

As I've stated above and in previous threads, I put a lot of stock in the handwritten list. And, like so many other SMiLE issues, it begs so many questions. Who wrote it? Where was it written and were there any witnesses hanging around? Was there a conversation (maybe in the studio?) just before the list was written that was witnessed? Who (his/her name) requested it? Was it understood that the list would be the actual sequence? And for the grand finale...drum roll...Is the person at Capitol Records who requested the list, and more importantly, is the person who actually received the list (by delivery from a person or through the mail) STILL ALIVE AND CAN HE/SHE BE TRACKED DOWN? Surely something as legendary as the SMiLE album would be remembered by such person. Right?

[The_Holy_Bee]

Some folks here have heard a version of this - 12 tracks (plus "Our Prayer" as bonus), with reasonably conservative editing choices (though some element chants from "Psychodelic Sounds" do make linking appearances). Used the Fusion interview with Vosse as clues for concept and editing. Comes in at 35 minutes, which about as standard a '65-'66 pop LP length as you can get.

SIDE A
1. Do You Like Worms? (3.30)
2. Heroes and Villians (2.51 - Verse/Doo doo doo/Cantina/"Fire Intro"/Children Were Raised [early version]/hard cut from "dum dum dum" into)
3. I'm in Great Shape (2.17 - I Wanna Be Around/Workshop [partial]/"Eggs and Grits"/Barnyard to fade)
4. Cabin Essence (3.29)
5. Wonderful (2.56 - "He Gives Speeches" as a kind of middle eight)
6. Child is Father of the Man (2.55 - BW '66 edit)
7. The Old Master Painter (1.54 - from box)

SIDE B
1. Good Vibrations (3.35)
2. The Elements - Fire (1.53)
3. Vega-Tables (1.57 - "vegetables chant" extract/VT early version/"air chant" extract)
4. Wind Chimes (3.01 - verse 1/"doo doo doo" vocal breakdown from SOT/chorus/twin piano section [fades out]/"water creatures chant" extract)
5. Surf's Up (3.43 - box version to "Surf's up, mmm-mmm", then '66 Brian solo [with fade])
6. Our Prayer (1.05)

I think it's surprisingly complete-sounding and satisfying in this form (goofier than fans often think Smile should be, sometimes, but satisfying). But then I would think that.  

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Continuing with the track list printed up by Capital, the the small print says "see label for correct playing order."
This seems to me like it's a correct list of the songs, just that it hadn't been properly sequenced yet.

   To me, it seems like that was put in there because the album was still a work in progress and BW wanted to reserve the right to make last minute changes to the run order if he so desired. He didn't want to cut off his options. I don't interpret that inclusion to imply that the sequence  of the list was in no way representative of BW's intentions for the final product. On the contrary, I think there was a sincere effort to list the songs in the order that BW (at that moment at least) expected the songs to be on the album. Otherwise, why is Good Vibrations, the biggest song on the planet at the time, placed as #5 on the list? Because the other song titles sprang to mind more quickly? Come on now. I find it odd that some people believe that, but then again, who really knows, right?

I don't quite see it that way. I think the note about the correct playing order is pretty solid proof that this was not supposed to be the order of the songs. Given that this caveat was added, there was probably some liberty to simply put down the tracks as they came into the head of whoever was writing or dictating. This is why, in my opinion, the list is front-ended with the album's big productions - Worms, H&V, Surf's Up, Good Vibrations, and Cabin Essence are all among the first half of the tracks listed. And furthermore, near the end of the list are the two tracks that Brian was far from completing: The Elements and Vega-tables. In the case of the former, there is still no proof that Brian even knew what he wanted some of the elements sections to be; in the case of the latter, there had been no recording work done on the track at all since the demo track.

I would suggest that the reason why GV comes in at #5 is because Brian had been spending the last few months concentrating on other tracks and they were at the forefront of his mind, especially when thinking about Smile. Plus, Vibes sprung into existence during the Pet Sounds era, then came out as a single, so maybe Brian didn't quickly associate it with Smile even though he intended for it to be a track on the album. It was, after all, a track that was heavily worked on well before the whole idea of Smile came about.

[soniclovenoize]

I would really love to hear this! If you can make it and put it on YouTube, that'd be awesome! I enjoyed your Aquarian Mix quite a bit, I'd like to see this mix as well.

Hey, I will make this for you, but I won't be able to do it until Monday or Tuesday.  If you can wait that long I'll do it, unless Mulan beats me to it. 

[yonderhillside]

Some folks here have heard a version of this - 12 tracks (plus "Our Prayer" as bonus), with reasonably conservative editing choices (though some element chants from "Psychodelic Sounds" do make linking appearances). Used the Fusion interview with Vosse as clues for concept and editing. Comes in at 35 minutes, which about as standard a '65-'66 pop LP length as you can get.

SIDE A
1. Do You Like Worms? (3.30)
2. Heroes and Villians (2.51 - Verse/Doo doo doo/Cantina/"Fire Intro"/Children Were Raised [early version]/hard cut from "dum dum dum" into)
3. I'm in Great Shape (2.17 - I Wanna Be Around/Workshop [partial]/"Eggs and Grits"/Barnyard to fade)
4. Cabin Essence (3.29)
5. Wonderful (2.56 - "He Gives Speeches" as a kind of middle eight)
6. Child is Father of the Man (2.55 - BW '66 edit)
7. The Old Master Painter (1.54 - from box)

SIDE B
1. Good Vibrations (3.35)
2. The Elements - Fire (1.53)
3. Vega-Tables (1.57 - "vegetables chant" extract/VT early version/"air chant" extract)
4. Wind Chimes (3.01 - verse 1/"doo doo doo" vocal breakdown from SOT/chorus/twin piano section [fades out]/"water creatures chant" extract)
5. Surf's Up (3.43 - box version to "Surf's up, mmm-mmm", then '66 Brian solo [with fade])
6. Our Prayer (1.05)

I think it's surprisingly complete-sounding and satisfying in this form (goofier than fans often think Smile should be, sometimes, but satisfying). But then I would think that.  

My personal Smile mix is similar in regards to a more Smiley Smile-esque goofiness sort of concept. But what is this "Air Chant" you speak of?

[The_Holy_Bee]

Funnily enough, it's almost all 1966 recordings (I used to call this the "December mix") - I hadn't thought of it having any particular resemblance to Smiley Smile before you mentioned it! Not one of my favourites, I'll confess.

It's very poor scholarship, but I can't track down the name of the specific track I used as the intro for Wind Chimes, or even if it was a "Psychodelic Sound" at all. As a matter of fact, it might even be from a Heroes session - it's the boys making rhythmic puffing and breathing noises.

Sorry about the vagueness!