Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?

[Bicyclerider]

Things were going well when the list was submitted, but it was later in December that Smile got derailed . . . and Brian halted work on everything but the singles.  The Cabinessence deal went down - now, don't get me started on all that, we don't want the discussion to degenerate, but that is significant - and maybe Brian did have a meltdown of sorts.  And suddenly the track list was ignored and pieces of songs were uprooted for the singles.  But later in April 67 Brian is giving interviews still talking about a "12 track album" that is almost finished except for the Elements!!

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Things were going well when the list was submitted, but it was later in December that Smile got derailed . . . and Brian halted work on everything but the singles.  The Cabinessence deal went down - now, don't get me started on all that, we don't want the discussion to degenerate, but that is significant - and maybe Brian did have a meltdown of sorts.  And suddenly the track list was ignored and pieces of songs were uprooted for the singles.  But later in April 67 Brian is giving interviews still talking about a "12 track album" that is almost finished except for the Elements!!

I'm pretty certain at this point that the Cabin Essence incident is way overblown, as was Mike's objections in general. Far more likely Brian himself lost sight of the end game and gave up. I've said it before and you've sort of confirmed it here, the Elements broke the back of the album. It was that one song that Brian was afraid of/couldn't finish, yet paradoxically was determined to convey in some fashion.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Excellent argument for the 2 suites, Mujan. Want only to point that 4 music pieces representing the Elements are supposed to be wildly different in tone and instrumentation!
And "Veggies with its upbeat silliness into Chimes' serene meditation into Cow's pure horror into Dada's tranquility" is exacly what I'd expect from an Earth -> Air -> Fire -> Water trip, and the reason it works for me.
I'm not saying that I am "right", mind you. Rather, that everyone is right, as we can't know how the "original SMiLE" would have been after all (I think not even Brian ever knew that!). So everyone is free to imagine it as they like, and that's the beauty of the whole thing.
But the full-fleshed (and maybe with multicolored feathers) "T-Rex SMiLE" was doomed to inexistence in the real world. Poor Brian wanted to make a 40-odd minutes album, every single piece of it as perfect as Good Vibrations, and nobody in the world could have pulled that out.

Thank you.

I guess...I'd expect some kind of continuing melody line or something between all 4 pieces. It was supposed to be crossfaded, so you would expect to have some kind of flow between them even if each piece is distinct. Similarly, tho each one lacks lyrics, there should be no doubt when you listen which element you're hearing. Fire sounds like fire. But none of the other proposed element pieces have that same instant familiarity. Dada, if I heard it without context, doesn't immediately convey "water." Nor do Veggies and Chimes convey earth and air to me. The only one I might buy is Workshop as Earth. But even that's a major stretch.

If the BWPS suite works for you tho, that's great. Just as long as you can agree it wouldn't have been that way in 1967 I have no issue.

[The Demon]

Things were going well when the list was submitted, but it was later in December that Smile got derailed . . . and Brian halted work on everything but the singles.  The Cabinessence deal went down - now, don't get me started on all that, we don't want the discussion to degenerate, but that is significant - and maybe Brian did have a meltdown of sorts.  And suddenly the track list was ignored and pieces of songs were uprooted for the singles.  But later in April 67 Brian is giving interviews still talking about a "12 track album" that is almost finished except for the Elements!!

I'm pretty certain at this point that the Cabin Essence incident is way overblown, as was Mike's objections in general. Far more likely Brian himself lost sight of the end game and gave up. I've said it before and you've sort of confirmed it here, the Elements broke the back of the album. It was that one song that Brian was afraid of/couldn't finish, yet paradoxically was determined to convey in some fashion.

You think it was that important to him?  I know Brian's comments aren't always trustworthy, but at one point he credit Van Dyke with the idea for "The Elements."

Also, why do you think "The Elements" was one composition instead of one track connecting multiple composed pieces?  If it was just one piece, why record part one alone?

I don't think the "Dada"/water connection is so arbitrary.  It did turn into "Cool Cool Water."  And I'm not sure the whole "child"/"youth" theme is so blatant within the tracks to be its own section or "movement."  It's a thematic element, but it seems to me that all the thematic elements of Smile tie together.  Doesn't water nourish just like a bottle nourishes a child?  Brian put the fire music in the chorus of "Cabin Essence" because fire burns coal to run the train.  He didn't keep the ideas separate because they were beholden to different sections of the album.  Likewise, we have that "Child" piano section similar to "Dada" which ends in a way to mimic the so-called "water chant."  It seems that in his mind these songs were all quite connected.  I think that's also why 12 tracks works better: you get a lot of relation between the songs, but not all the needless repetition that a 3-sided album has.  I think this idea of "movements" is much more contemporary, and I don't think it really scans well against the actual tracks, which are typically more nuanced, not unlike Song Cycle.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Things were going well when the list was submitted, but it was later in December that Smile got derailed . . . and Brian halted work on everything but the singles.  The Cabinessence deal went down - now, don't get me started on all that, we don't want the discussion to degenerate, but that is significant - and maybe Brian did have a meltdown of sorts.  And suddenly the track list was ignored and pieces of songs were uprooted for the singles.  But later in April 67 Brian is giving interviews still talking about a "12 track album" that is almost finished except for the Elements!!

I'm pretty certain at this point that the Cabin Essence incident is way overblown, as was Mike's objections in general. Far more likely Brian himself lost sight of the end game and gave up. I've said it before and you've sort of confirmed it here, the Elements broke the back of the album. It was that one song that Brian was afraid of/couldn't finish, yet paradoxically was determined to convey in some fashion.

You think it was that important to him?  I know Brian's comments aren't always trustworthy, but at one point he credit Van Dyke with the idea for "The Elements."

Also, why do you think "The Elements" was one composition instead of one track connecting multiple composed pieces?  If it was just one piece, why record part one alone?

I don't think the "Dada"/water connection is so arbitrary.  It did turn into "Cool Cool Water."  And I'm not sure the whole "child"/"youth" theme is so blatant within the tracks to be its own section or "movement."  It's a thematic element, but it seems to me that all the thematic elements of Smile tie together.  Doesn't water nourish just like a bottle nourishes a child?  Brian put the fire music in the chorus of "Cabin Essence" because fire burns coal to run the train.  He didn't keep the ideas separate because they were beholden to different sections of the album.  Likewise, we have that "Child" piano section similar to "Dada" which ends in a way to mimic the so-called "water chant."  It seems that in his mind these songs were all quite connected.  I think that's also why 12 tracks works better: you get a lot of relation between the songs, but not all the needless repetition that a 3-sided album has.  I think this idea of "movements" is much more contemporary, and I don't think it really scans well against the actual tracks, which are typically more nuanced, not unlike Song Cycle.

Yes, I do. So what if it was VDP's decision? Why does that matter? But the fact that he was still working on CCW/the water chant long after the album was canned, that he deemed SMiLE unfit to release in spite of the abundance of recorded material, that interview where he said "a third movement" allowed him to finish SMiLE...clearly he wanted an expression of the elements in there. It makes up a good chunk of the Psychedelic Sounds skits too.

I didn't say it was one composed piece. I said 4 bits crossfaded together. Goes without saying though, there's got to be some kind of link, be it a common melody or instrumentation or SOMETHING to tie these four pieces together. Otherwise it'd sound terrible (maybe Brian realized that and *that's* why the initial concept wasn't finished?) As for why they weren't recorded at once...well, why wasn't Surf's Up Part 2 recorded the same day as part 1? I don't know, that's just how Brian was working at the time.

It's not that the Dada-water connection is completely arbitrary...but at the same time, there's enough doubt that I don't see why it's so unquestionable. From what I remember reading in Catch a Wave, the original plan was for water sounds to be spliced together. Going by my own ears, Dada doesn't grab me and scream "Water!" like Cow screams "Fire!"

It's not a Child theme so much as a Life theme. Why is an "elements side" so commonly accepted yet a Cycle of Life side so impossible? As I said, Chimes/Wonderful/CIFOTM/Surfs Up all have similar instrumentation--horns and pianos/harpsichords. They're all "twists" on the kind of things the beach boys usually sang of. They play off each other--anticipating death, anticipating the future man from the growing child, love for children, love for a woman (GV), harming a woman (ironically, with "love" and then the idea that that experience will determine the woman she grows into, for better or worse.) I could go on. We all pretty much agree Movement Two was the best of BWPS. Darian said it was genuine Brian. It makes sense there's a link here. Just forget all preconceived notions of SMiLE and listen to these 4 (5 if you include GV) songs together.

[Summertime Blooz]

 I get that you don't believe that 3 sections of a proposed Elements suite were ever recorded, Mujan, but why do you say the sections would have been crossfaded had it been completed? Has BW ever used that word in the context of The Elements, or have you read something that leads you to believe he may have said that? I don't know that that's a technique that even shows up elsewhere in Smile; I'm not aware of it myself.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I get that you don't believe that 3 sections of a proposed Elements suite were ever recorded, Mujan, but why do you say the sections would have been crossfaded had it been completed? Has BW ever used that word in the context of The Elements, or have you read something that leads you to believe he may have said that? I don't know that that's a technique that even shows up elsewhere in Smile; I'm not aware of it myself.

Unless I'm gravely mistaken, AGD has said that VDP has said that. So basically, because I said that AGD said, that VDP said so

Edit: Also according to AGD (again, unless my memory's wrong) this would be the only SMiLE track to utilize crossfades. So there's a reason you haven't heard it regarding any other SMiLE music.

[Cam Mott]

The track list is crucial in understanding what Brian's concept of the album was in December 66, as it was planned for release in January.  He had a month to finish it - what tracks could he finish in a month, and what tracks did he want on the album?  The list tells us.  Of course he was wildly optimistic about being able to finish it all, least of all in a month.  The Pet Sounds track list submitted did not follow the album sequence - but then that list wasn't used to make a back cover slick, which gives it more permanance but the fact that the back cover was never printed while the front cover was is probably significant.

I think it almost a certainty that the covers were proofed and mocked up and approved then fabricated by two contractors to completion with front and back liner, including a track list, and shipped to Capitol.

First we have memos and corrected proofs of the front and back liner in December.

Second, in late March mock ups of the covers with front and back liners with track list were seen and reported on in the press with the song titles mentioned all from the corrected back liner proof (the 12 track list).

Third, in July a magazine reported Mike saying about the SMiLE album "We knew the title and songs months ago already" and "Capitol finished the sleeve in April already. I don’t know how many sleeves they can throw out now, just because the lineup of songs and some songs have changed completely." So the covers were finished with a tracklist that the titles had been known for months and they were in Capitol's custody.

Fourth, in August 1972 Capitol had memos showing they did in fact have 100s of thousands of SMiLE covers in two warehouses and they wanted to throw them out. Covers, not just front cover liners.

Besides, the fabricators printed the back cover liners when the covers were fabricated so the fact that they were covers means the back cover liner had been printed on bond paper by the fabricator at the fabricators and assembled into a cover along with the fabricators cardboard and the lithographer's front cover liner. The two cover contractors were BertCo of LA and Queens Litho of NY. Back then BertCo did its own litho front liner and bond paper back liner printing and assembly to cardboard in-house. Queens Litho did the front liner litho printing in house then shipped the litho prints to a sub-contracting fabricator (not Capitol) who printed the bond paper back liner and assembled the litho and bond to cardboard and shipped the finished covers to Capitol's Scranton plant.

[Bicyclerider]

Brian did seem obsessed with the Elements suite and the water section in particular.  He had Vosse recording water sounds in Oct 66.  Psychedelic Sounds has chants related to the elements. In April 67 he speaks to a reporter about having troubles with the track The Elements, and a few weeks later records Dada.  Then he records a version of Cool Cool Water in June (that shares that child like part 3 of Dada if I remember correctly), then rerecords CCW and the water chant later in the year during the Wild Honey sessions. 

Then a year and a half later Brian has Desper recording water sounds and programming them into a synthesizer keyboard for Brian to play which he never touched for a remake/rewrite of Cool Cool Water.

Of course Brian has always had a tendency to obsess over things - recording arguments on tape, astrology, Spector, Proud Mary, Shortening Bread, the Bicycle Rider theme, the All Dressed Up for School chord changes, etc.

[Summertime Blooz]

I get that you don't believe that 3 sections of a proposed Elements suite were ever recorded, Mujan, but why do you say the sections would have been crossfaded had it been completed? Has BW ever used that word in the context of The Elements, or have you read something that leads you to believe he may have said that? I don't know that that's a technique that even shows up elsewhere in Smile; I'm not aware of it myself.

Unless I'm gravely mistaken, AGD has said that VDP has said that. So basically, because I said that AGD said, that VDP said so

Edit: Also according to AGD (again, unless my memory's wrong) this would be the only SMiLE track to utilize crossfades. So there's a reason you haven't heard it regarding any other SMiLE music.

And another thing...
The only thing recorded for Smile that we're all like 99% sure would have been a part of  The Elements does not even have a fade, just a drum pounding the fire into submission. So it makes zero sense to me for that to fade out; I just can't really picture that being a likely possibilty.

[Tilt Araiza]

Crazy thought of the day: Brian finished The Elements and it's called Diamond Head (yeah, I know that it's not written by Brian alone).

[Jim V.]

During the Christmas break '66 Brian's seasonal effective disorder kicked in and instead of wanting a great album he decided he needed instead to top Good Vibrations as a single. "Good Vibrations" his number 1 in December of 1966. Coincidence? So now it's "Where's the single, Brian?" So now "Heroes and Villains" took precedence over everything. In desperation to make "Heroes and Villains" the greatest single ever he started taking all the good ideas he had for Smile as a whole and in the process dismantled the rest of the record. Heroes and Villains is a black hole that sucks the rest of Smile into it. This was not some grand suite of reoccurring themes - this was an album that got consumed by a single track for the sake of topping the untoppable. When the priority changed from album to single...THATS when Smile died. And evidently this revelation came at the end of December.

Bubba, I think this is quite on the mark, despite some mocking sh*t from other posters. Who knows if it was for seasonal effective disorder, but it seems pretty obvious that things are being worked on pretty consistently through December, and then something changes. Sure, he's still working (and working very hard), but instead of thinking about the album, he's only thinking about one song.

I think I'm gonna take your theory a step further too. I think maybe the reason the album died was partially because Brian was behind the times still. He was worried about making this untoppable hit single, whereas a lot of the rest of the big respected groups were worried more about their albums. And while Brian was obviously tuned into making album "statements" like Pet Sounds, something in him must have made him feel that this single was more important. And I think it just might that in some way he was still tuned into that early '60s mindset of "the single is what's important" and "the album is just something to sell the album on". Because even though people say SMiLE getting canned broke Brian, it didn't seem to be as back of a hit to him as the groups lack of hit singles. I think if they consistently kept having hits from '68 to '73 like they did from '63 to '67, I don't think you'd hear the Brian from the '73/'74 interviews who was somewhat "through with The Beach Boys" since they hadn't had much success on the singles charts.

I think the fans influenced the structure of BWPS. Either Darian (if you believe he sequenced it) or LLVS/fan speculation lead to Veggies/Chimes/Dada being repurposed as elements when there's no proof that was the original plan. This is another reason I don't consider BWPS definitive.

I agree that the fans influenced the structure of BWPS. More directly, at least one (Darian), just but being there and asking Brian questions and whatnot, he influenced the thing.

I also somewhat agree that those songs were kinda "repurposed" as "elements." However, don't forget that in the booklet "Vega-Tables" was titled as "My Vega-tables" The Elements. So apparently it was thought of as part of "The Elements", right?

And once again, not to bring up the same old crap, but what do you mean by "definitive"? Definitive to what. The album if it had been released in early '67 woulda been different than the album as released in middle to late '67. Which one woulda been definitive? Would a release from '72 or '73 have been definitive? I think BWPS is Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks definitive statement on what SMiLE is. What it would have been is incredibly interesting, and that's why we're here. But BWPS is the creator's final assessment. And, well, so is The SMiLE Sessions since there's a few differences there, like the placement of "I'm In Great Shape" and whatnot.

But later in April 67 Brian is giving interviews still talking about a "12 track album" that is almost finished except for the Elements!!

Super interesting. I forgot that Brian was still talking about the album like this by that time. It is just so odd seeing that he hadn't touched stuff like "Do You Like Worms", "Cabin Essence", "Surf's Up" or "Child Is Father Of The Man" in a while. And that during that month, he did a third version of "Wonderful" for the album. And on top of that, how about whatever "I'm In Great Shape" was supposed to be. I have to assume thatAnd there was no finalized version of "Heroes And Villains" by this point. Unless maybe he was already sure about what he was gonna do with it in a few months time (doubtful).

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Brian did seem obsessed with the Elements suite and the water section in particular.  He had Vosse recording water sounds in Oct 66.  Psychedelic Sounds has chants related to the elements. In April 67 he speaks to a reporter about having troubles with the track The Elements, and a few weeks later records Dada.  Then he records a version of Cool Cool Water in June (that shares that child like part 3 of Dada if I remember correctly), then rerecords CCW and the water chant later in the year during the Wild Honey sessions. 

Then a year and a half later Brian has Desper recording water sounds and programming them into a synthesizer keyboard for Brian to play which he never touched for a remake/rewrite of Cool Cool Water.

Of course Brian has always had a tendency to obsess over things - recording arguments on tape, astrology, Spector, Proud Mary, Shortening Bread, the Bicycle Rider theme, the All Dressed Up for School chord changes, etc.

Exactly. And just listen to the smog skit. He goes on and on about the importance of the elements to your health and happiness. It was an essential component of the message he was intending to convey at the time.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Crazy thought of the day: Brian finished The Elements and it's called Diamond Head (yeah, I know that it's not written by Brian alone).

Nope.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I get that you don't believe that 3 sections of a proposed Elements suite were ever recorded, Mujan, but why do you say the sections would have been crossfaded had it been completed? Has BW ever used that word in the context of The Elements, or have you read something that leads you to believe he may have said that? I don't know that that's a technique that even shows up elsewhere in Smile; I'm not aware of it myself.

Unless I'm gravely mistaken, AGD has said that VDP has said that. So basically, because I said that AGD said, that VDP said so

Edit: Also according to AGD (again, unless my memory's wrong) this would be the only SMiLE track to utilize crossfades. So there's a reason you haven't heard it regarding any other SMiLE music.

And another thing...
The only thing recorded for Smile that we're all like 99% sure would have been a part of  The Elements does not even have a fade, just a drum pounding the fire into submission. So it makes zero sense to me for that to fade out; I just can't really picture that being a likely possibilty.

It sort of does, though doesn't it? It gets quieter, less intense, less orchestrated then the drums pound it out. Maybe it was to lead into a bombastic, percussion-heavy Earth section? But this is a silly argument as none of us can say. Maybe two elements would buttend to each other with a fade in the middle? I'm just relaying what I heard--the elements would crossfade.

[buddhahat]

Not that I disagree with the twelve track thing, and I'm aware Brian's quotes should aleays be taken with a pinch of salt, but I was amused to stumble on this particular quote and thought it worth posting here:

Interviewer: Since most people will be importing Smile into iTunes, should they change the order of the master takes in the folder? Or leave it as is?
BW: They should leave it as is. Because it’s the adventure I want them to take, the order it is now.

[Bicyclerider]

I agree Brian's focus on the single contributed to the derailment of Smile - aparrently Capitol was pushing hard for a single, as was Anderle, and the pressure on Brian was tremendous because he wanted to top Good Vibrations, which really couldn't be surpassed although Brian was trying.  If he had released cantina in February and then focussed on finishing the album, maybe it could have been released in April (as the ad in Teen Beat seemed to imply).  Bag The Elements, release Mrs. O'Leary's Cow as its' own track on the album.  His obsessing over Heroes meant the album could never get finished.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think the fans influenced the structure of BWPS. Either Darian (if you believe he sequenced it) or LLVS/fan speculation lead to Veggies/Chimes/Dada being repurposed as elements when there's no proof that was the original plan. This is another reason I don't consider BWPS definitive.

I agree that the fans influenced the structure of BWPS. More directly, at least one (Darian), just but being there and asking Brian questions and whatnot, he influenced the thing.

I also somewhat agree that those songs were kinda "repurposed" as "elements." However, don't forget that in the booklet "Vega-Tables" was titled as "My Vega-tables" The Elements. So apparently it was thought of as part of "The Elements", right?

And once again, not to bring up the same old crap, but what do you mean by "definitive"? Definitive to what. The album if it had been released in early '67 woulda been different than the album as released in middle to late '67. Which one woulda been definitive? Would a release from '72 or '73 have been definitive? I think BWPS is Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks definitive statement on what SMiLE is. What it would have been is incredibly interesting, and that's why we're here. But BWPS is the creator's final assessment. And, well, so is The SMiLE Sessions since there's a few differences there, like the placement of "I'm In Great Shape" and whatnot.
Unless maybe he was already sure about what he was gonna do with it in a few months time (doubtful).

The booklet contradicts the back cover which lists them separately. Which one supercedes the other is anyone's guess. I try not to put too much stock in either, but if I were to place bets on which one is more accurate, I'd go with the cover. At least that has a small chance of being overseen and approved by Brian himself. The booklet, as I understand, is all Frank Holmes based on what VDP told him. It's possible VDP got mixed up, Frank got mixed up, or because the booklet was done earlier, plans changed. Plus, the elements was supposed to be an instrumental.

When I say "definitive" I mean, essentially, 'true to Brian's intentions (as best we can determine) for the album in 1966 before the initial concept got muddied by a variety of factors which have been discussed ad nauseum.' Obviously that's quite a mouthful, hence I just say "definitive."

I think my criteria for that would be, a presentation of the material with a two sided LP in mind. With however many (ideally 10~13) tracks of finished, fully realized musical statements. Standalone 30~60 second fragments don't count. With Brian actively taking the lead, VDP offering counsel, the Beach Boys ready to command, and with the Psychedelic experience in mind. Supposedely the inspiration for SMiLE was an acid flashback in a bookstore.

So, I personally don't consider BWPS to be "definitive" because it doesn't fit on two sides, wasn't composed or arranged with a studio LP in mind, isn't the Beach Boys, stuffs unfinished little fragments in which cheapen the presentation and ruin the flow, debatably (not saying *I* personaly think this) is more Darian's sequence, and loses the Psychedelic 'vibe' that was part of that initial cathartic spark.

TSS isn't definitive because it's just the old, unfinished fragments forced into the BWPS sequence, with each track remixed by Mark & Alan, presumably with only passive ("yeah, that sounds fine") oversight from Brian.

Essentially, any SMiLE from '66-'67 would be definitive in my book. Would a '72 album be? Possibly. If Brian took an active hand in it and finished what he started. Not if Carl and Jack just threw together the fragments in some way that pleased them, though.

And before anyone asks, no, obviously my fanmix isn't definitive either. Nor is anyone else's. It's just us Smile-o-philes playing around with what we have and trying to make some kind of cohesive musical whole out of the mess.

[Been Too Long]

The track list is crucial in understanding what Brian's concept of the album was in December 66, as it was planned for release in January.  He had a month to finish it - what tracks could he finish in a month, and what tracks did he want on the album?  The list tells us.  Of course he was wildly optimistic about being able to finish it all, least of all in a month.  The Pet Sounds track list submitted did not follow the album sequence - but then that list wasn't used to make a back cover slick, which gives it more permanance but the fact that the back cover was never printed while the front cover was is probably significant.

I think it almost a certainty that the covers were proofed and mocked up and approved then fabricated by two contractors to completion with front and back liner, including a track list, and shipped to Capitol.

First we have memos and corrected proofs of the front and back liner in December.

Second, in late March mock ups of the covers with front and back liners with track list were seen and reported on in the press with the song titles mentioned all from the corrected back liner proof (the 12 track list).

Third, in July a magazine reported Mike saying about the SMiLE album "We knew the title and songs months ago already" and "Capitol finished the sleeve in April already. I don’t know how many sleeves they can throw out now, just because the lineup of songs and some songs have changed completely." So the covers were finished with a tracklist that the titles had been known for months and they were in Capitol's custody.

Fourth, in August 1972 Capitol had memos showing they did in fact have 100s of thousands of SMiLE covers in two warehouses and they wanted to throw them out. Covers, not just front cover liners.

Besides, the fabricators printed the back cover liners when the covers were fabricated so the fact that they were covers means the back cover liner had been printed on bond paper by the fabricator at the fabricators and assembled into a cover along with the fabricators cardboard and the lithographer's front cover liner. The two cover contractors were BertCo of LA and Queens Litho of NY. Back then BertCo did its own litho front liner and bond paper back liner printing and assembly to cardboard in-house. Queens Litho did the front liner litho printing in house then shipped the litho prints to a sub-contracting fabricator (not Capitol) who printed the bond paper back liner and assembled the litho and bond to cardboard and shipped the finished covers to Capitol's Scranton plant.

This is a great post. Of course Capitol ordered a complete cover, what kind of business would order just the front covers, have them shipped to them, warehouse them all, then ship them all the way back to the printer to be completed. What’s the point? Even if you question the band’s approval process of the tracklist, the back covers had gone through the steps needed for Capitol’s approval and more importantly they were expecting to start filling them with records and booklets within days of receiving them for a mid January release date, not much time to send them all out a second time for more work.

Also don’t forget the Vosse Fusion article where he states that “While the Beach Boys were in England, … it (the album) was a totally conceived entity…” . I seem to remember Anderle making a similar statement somewhere and Van Dyke stating that the reason that he was not at the Fire session in early December was that his part of the work was done and, while still available to Brian, he was no longer attending sessions.  So by the early part of December ’66 Brian Wilson knew what he wanted for the SMiLE album and this is right before the tracklist shows up. Easy job for him to come up with the list. He also stuck to working on songs from that list and a few articles from ’67 mention some the song titles from that cover so not only did Mike Love know the “songs months ago” but anyone keeping up with the music press would have too.

If you really want to know what Brian’s plan was for SMiLE in 1966, read the article “Meanwhile…what’s BRIAN doing back at base?” it includes an interview with Brian from November 1966  “While the Beach Boys were in England”. In my copy of LLVS it’s on the bottom of page 30.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

If you really want to know what Brian’s plan was for SMiLE in 1966, read the article “Meanwhile…what’s BRIAN doing back at base?” it includes an interview with Brian from November 1966  “While the Beach Boys were in England”. In my copy of LLVS it’s on the bottom of page 30.

Mind posting some highlights for those of us without a copy? I'm interested. Very interested. It's a bold claim to say one article essentially holds all the answers. Not that I'm doubting you per say...just that you've got me interested. Have I mentioned that already?

[The Shift]

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned the old Smile Shop essays… just found this by chance:

http://archive.today/l8Bfa

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned the old Smile Shop essays… just found this by chance:

http://archive.today/l8Bfa

Thanks for the link. I wish I had been around in the old SMiLE Shop days. The info in that link seems pretty outdated (claiming Little Red Book and Untitled Instrumental aka Spanish Guitar were recorded in the SMiLE Sessions) but I guess that's to be expected since it's presumably ~10 years old.

[Been Too Long]

If you really want to know what Brian’s plan was for SMiLE in 1966, read the article “Meanwhile…what’s BRIAN doing back at base?” it includes an interview with Brian from November 1966  “While the Beach Boys were in England”. In my copy of LLVS it’s on the bottom of page 30.

Mind posting some highlights for those of us without a copy? I'm interested. Very interested. It's a bold claim to say one article essentially holds all the answers. Not that I'm doubting you per say...just that you've got me interested. Have I mentioned that already?

I couldn’t find a link online, but here’s the whole article from the book (which you should really look into getting.)

Meanwhile … what’s BRIAN doing back at base?
HOLLYWOOD Tracy Thomas
 
  While the Beach Boys are rocking Europe, BB-mastermind Brian Wilson, has not been resting on his and their laurels!

  This week Brian’s working on the next Beach Boys’ single, another adventure in pop music, called “Heroes And Villains,” which will be, as the BB boss describes it, “a three-minute musical comedy. I’m using some new production techniques that I think will surprise everyone. I can’t actually describe the effect- you have to hear it.”

Brian’s also working simultaneously on the next BB album, now entitled “Smile.”

  “This LP will include ‘Good Vibrations’ and ‘Heroes And Villains’ and ten other tracks,” says Brian. “I’ve written them all in collaboration with Van Dyke Parks, who’s been a studio organist in Las Angeles for ages-he also records on his own.

  “The album will include lots of humour- some musical and some spoken. It won’t be like a comedy LP- there won’t be any spoken tracks as such- but someone might say something in between verses.”

  Brian’s been in touch with one or the other Boys nearly every day, if not directly, then through one of the wives. “Carl and Dennis usually call Annie and Carol each day, and Mike and Al will call, say, every other day. They just can’t believe how nice everyone is and how much attention they’re getting.

  “To tell you the truth, we were all worried about their reception. Especially since the records that have been such big hits in Europe have been the ones that are the most difficult to reproduce on stage.

  “But I understand that the audiences are taking this into account and find the boys voices make up for the lack of violins and French Horns. They are about the best harmonisers around, if I do say so!”

  Before the Boys left, they made their first film for TV that they’ve had complete control over. “We’re excited about it because it’s a new medium for us.”

  Brian adds that “1967 should bring a series of surprises for everyone from the Beach Boys.”
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The book doesn’t give the source or the date but I found them online: New Musical Express, 18 November 1966. Actually, the week ending with November 18, to be exact. Notice how that matches up with the timeline: the Vegetable arguments with Hal were that same week, the Psychedelic Sounds stuff was that week or the week before, “George Fell” was November 7. On the other side: the Beach Boys last show of the tour before coming back to LA was November 24, the Fire session was November 28, the “Crow Cries” lyric argument with Van Dyke was December 6, and the track list was received by Capitol December 10. So this was, by ALL accounts, Smile at its most expansive, experimental and un-compromised.

[Cam Mott]

He already knows it will have 12 songs including GV and he is also putting the writing of the 12 songs in the past.

[Been Too Long]

He already knows it will have 12 songs including GV and he is also putting the writing of the 12 songs in the past.

I never thought about the fact that Brian states that “I’ve written them all” past tense, but you’re right. That also matches what Van Dyke said about never having heard “fire” before because by that time (November 28) he was no longer attending sessions because his part of the project (the lyrics) were done and we know that by early December he was already taking other projects. It seems like at the time of this article Brian was just waiting for the guys to come back from tour to do the vocals, and every session in December, except that one lost Heroes string date on Dec 19, is a vocal session. At the point of this interview, Smile is still set for a pre Christmas release and would not be officially pushed to 1967 until the memo on December 18.

And; something to think about with the date being push to January, there is that Capitol memo from December 8, 1966, the Purchase Order for 100,000 booklets, “to be finished by 1/3/67” and the booklet Proof was sent to two printers on December 19 for 400,000 booklets to be received 1/3/67 and 1/6/67. So for the question as to why Smile was pushed back to January 1967, because that’s when the booklets would arrive. Even if the music was done he had to wait on the covers and booklets. That also matches up with the planned album release date of the week of January 15th, gives Capitol a week ( the 6th to the 15th) to assemble and ship the record, booklet and cover.