Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?

[buddhahat]

Looks like I'm in the minority but TSS disc 1 is the only Smile sequence I listen to these days. It's smile for me, so I guess I'd have to go with 3 movements although I share the belief that Smile would most likely have been banded tracks without had it been released in 67.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Love it or hate it (I like it), BWPS is the a finished Smile.

FTFY. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Mujan, every time you react to a perceived slight with an essay about how you're being bullied, you just pour oil on a fire that was almost out. If I were you I'd walk away and let the embers die.

Then this thread can get back on track.

Or perhaps it'd be better to leave this forum altogether? Really just doesn't seem to be a good fit.

That being said, can you understand where I'm coming from? I'm literally just trying to add to a topic I'm interested in, just hoping to maybe present an alternate perspective on what SMiLE might've been. I see a comment that's pretty spot-on in it's own way, give my version of a "hey man, well said" and for no reason at all I get crapped on by Mikie yet again.

This person has been making it his prerogative to knock me ddown a peg or two at every opportunity he's been given. There's absolutely no reason for it at all that I can fathom except that I left GV off a damn fanmix. It's the most ridiculous overreaction I've ever seen and a huge reason why I initially stopped posting in the first place. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in calling him out on his behavior. I was happy to move on since I came back, let that sh!t go, and talk about SMiLE again in peace, but apparently he's still interested in looking for a fight after all this time. I don't know what I'm supposed to do since I can't block his posts; if someones gonna be obnoxious to me, sorry, but I'm gonna stand up for myself and call them on it.

Now granted, I may have been heavy handed with my reply to sweetdudejim. But to me, his comment was pretty uncalled for too. Aside from being rude for no reason except petty semantics and difference of opinion, it's just plain kicking a guy when he's down. I'm not trying to be a drama queen here, but it's this kinda stuff (and like I've said, it's been going on since I got here) that just kinda makes this whole board seem toxic. There's no reason at all for people to be this catty over personal opinions. I'm not a troll, I'm a genuine fan with some differences of opinion who has every right to come here and speak freely without being treated this way.

You make it out as if I'm going around begging for sympathy every time someone disagrees with my opinion or some stupid thing like that. Not so. I'm just pointing out that this board is, to put it bluntly, badly moderated. I'm just calling it as I see it. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to feel this way considering how Mikie and his kind are allowed to hound me at will and get away with it while I'm continuously made to be the bad guy for not putting up with it. I was openly mocked, and told I wasn't welcome here just for bumping some old threads that anyone not interested in could easily scroll past. I don't know if I just rub you guys the wrong way or if the culture of this board is just THAT bad, or what. But I don't think I deserve the hate I get for trying to post meaningful SMiLE-related posts on a forum about the Beach Boys.

I'm trying to be civil, but it's hard when you really put yourself out there posting mixes and opinions only to be called "useless" and told to go somewhere else, etc. With that in mind, can you really blame me for getting frustrated right now?

Aaahhh... I'm guessing you never experienced the Male Ego forum. Man, that made this place at its worst seem like a Care Bears fan convention. Ego was cage fighting with chainsaws while juggling scorpions and nitroglycerine.

Damn, I miss it. 

[John Manning]

Miss Male Ego and the Smile Shop both… though sometimes I get a sense of deja vu and Groundhog Day here!

As for SMILE sequences, well my own is in my head and it changes every day. Today All Day goes into Child, Worms and Cabinessence precede Heroes (chronology and all that)…  One day I might have the time to take all those little pieces I've amassed over the last 38 years and weave them into something I can plug into my iPod and take everywhere, though having it to hand will spoil much of that magic in my head.

My own view of Vibes in the line-up? Smile without Vibes is like cake without flour, an engine without spark plugs, fish and chips without mushy peas.

[JK]

Looks like I'm in the minority but TSS disc 1 is the only Smile sequence I listen to these days.

TSS disc 1 is the only one I bought, basically for making the comparison with BWPS, Brian's last (as opposed to lost) masterpiece. That said, I haven't played either in months, having been diverted into other musical areas (it happens). :=)   

[halblaineisgood]

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[halblaineisgood]

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[Niko]

I dunno what the original address of male ego was (maleego.net?) but you can use this to view old websites.

https://archive.org/web/

Just type in the address and pick a date.

[Niko]

I'm just pointing out that this board is, to put it bluntly, badly moderated.

I've read/participated in forums where a mod jumps in at the slightest altercation. It's boring. The mods do a good job here keeping things from being ridiculous, but I think its best to let the chips fall where they may. Isn't that what makes it interesting - to share opinions with others? This board is a lot of fun when everything 'clicks' together. And the greatest!

Don't take things personally...there are always plenty of people reading (or even agreeing with  ) what you have to say, even if they aren't saying anything.

[runnersdialzero]

BWPS, Brian's last (as opposed to lost) masterpiece.

u like cocaine
u are in a cocaine-induced rage, john K
i can't condone this

[John Manning]

The mods do a good job here …

The mods do a great job here …

[JK]

BWPS, Brian's last (as opposed to lost) masterpiece.

u like cocaine
u are in a cocaine-induced rage, john K
i can't condone this

Rage isn't in my vocabulary, runnersdialzero (it is you, isn't it?). I just happen not to warm to anything Brian has done since then. Sorry! Oh, and cocaine isn't in my vocabulary either.  :=)

[Sheriff John Stone]

As for SMILE sequences, well my own is in my head and it changes every day....Worms and Cabinessence precede Heroes (chronology and all that)…  One day I might have the time to take all those little pieces I've amassed over the last 38 years and weave them into something I can plug into my iPod and take everywhere, though having it to hand will spoil much of that magic in my head.

I have "Worms" and "Cabinessence" preceding "Heroes And Villains", too! I have a feeling we're in the minority there. I know you mentioned your mix is in your head, but I'd be interested in seeing it if you'd care to share it  

[rab2591]

You make it out as if I'm going around begging for sympathy every time someone disagrees with my opinion or some stupid thing like that. Not so. I'm just pointing out that this board is, to put it bluntly, badly moderated. I'm just calling it as I see it. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to feel this way considering how Mikie and his kind are allowed to hound me at will and get away with it while I'm continuously made to be the bad guy for not putting up with it. I was openly mocked, and told I wasn't welcome here just for bumping some old threads that anyone not interested in could easily scroll past. I don't know if I just rub you guys the wrong way or if the culture of this board is just THAT bad, or what. But I don't think I deserve the hate I get for trying to post meaningful SMiLE-related posts on a forum about the Beach Boys.

I'm trying to be civil, but it's hard when you really put yourself out there posting mixes and opinions only to be called "useless" and told to go somewhere else, etc. With that in mind, can you really blame me for getting frustrated right now?

It's comments like that that piss people off. You "calling it like you see it" can understandably rub people the wrong way.

The mods here do an excellent job. Because they don't slap Mikie on the wrist whenever he pisses you off doesn't mean they are doing a bad job. It means they realize we are adults who should be able to handle these petulant spats ourselves. If someone is pissing you off, ignore them.

[drbeachboy]

It's beautiful in its own way, it's just as valid a Smile as any other version...it's just not THE SMiLE.

It's just as valid as any other SMiLE, really? It's not like a billion times more valid than yours or mine, since you know, it was finished by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks? Come on man. Whether or not you like BWPS that is IT. Brian, in the liner notes, states that it's the finished SMiLE. Whatever you think of Brian and his capabilities in 2004, he deemed it finished, and I think he has much, much, much more room to assess that than any of us.

Nice post! It also makes me think that the constraints of a single LP may have been Smile's undoing. Just too much music for Brian to pick and choose and edit into a 12 track banded record. Had he had the freedom of a double LP, maybe he would have released it in movement form back in 1967.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

You make it out as if I'm going around begging for sympathy every time someone disagrees with my opinion or some stupid thing like that. Not so. I'm just pointing out that this board is, to put it bluntly, badly moderated. I'm just calling it as I see it. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to feel this way considering how Mikie and his kind are allowed to hound me at will and get away with it while I'm continuously made to be the bad guy for not putting up with it. I was openly mocked, and told I wasn't welcome here just for bumping some old threads that anyone not interested in could easily scroll past. I don't know if I just rub you guys the wrong way or if the culture of this board is just THAT bad, or what. But I don't think I deserve the hate I get for trying to post meaningful SMiLE-related posts on a forum about the Beach Boys.

I'm trying to be civil, but it's hard when you really put yourself out there posting mixes and opinions only to be called "useless" and told to go somewhere else, etc. With that in mind, can you really blame me for getting frustrated right now?

It's comments like that that piss people off. You "calling it like you see it" can understandably rub people the wrong way.

The mods here do an excellent job. Because they don't slap Mikie on the wrist whenever he pisses you off doesn't mean they are doing a bad job. It means they realize we are adults who should be able to handle these petulant spats ourselves. If someone is pissing you off, ignore them.

Duly noted. I didn't mean to come off as though I'm the only one with a handle on the situation. I just thought it was important to express where I was coming from, completely and honestly. I don't expect people to be banned for being "not 100% nice" I just think some people take it to the next level, and that kind of thing ought to be discouraged not passively accepted. I'll be sure to ignore the 'spats' from here on in, it's just that in certain situations in the past, it seemed like everyone was on their side since the majority of reactions I was getting, no matter what I did, were really negative. I wasn't sure what I was doing wrong to seemingly piss people off to such a degree.


But I'm really not trying to sidetrack things with my sh!t. I was really enjoying the initial topic. So to get back to it...

John Manning, if you wouldn't mind sharing some of your ideas, I'd be really interested in hearing them. I love alternate SMiLE mixes. Sheriff John Stone, I think the reason you guys are in the minority on that point is because Heroes was undeniably going to be the big single, and tradition dictates that that lead off the sides of an LP.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The mods do a good job here …

The mods do a great job here …

Thank you John. It is impossible for me to be on here 24 hours a day but I try to check in as much as possible.  Like now, im at work but checked it right before I go back on from break

[Sheriff John Stone]

Sheriff John Stone, I think the reason you guys are in the minority on that point is because Heroes was undeniably going to be the big single, and tradition dictates that that lead off the sides of an LP.

Yes, I think that "Heroes And Villains" (or "Good Vibrations") would've led off SMiLE. And, I really don't think that "Our Prayer" would've preceded it. But we've been over that territory before....

I'm not really a lyric guy, especially with BB/BW music, and even SMiLE, but I can't get past the fact that "Heroes And Villains" is such a past tense song lyrically. I've BEEN in this town so long, I've BEEN TAKEN for lost and gone, FELL in love YEARS AGO, bullets eventually BROUGHT her down, just see what you've DONE, my children WERE raised, they STARTED SLOW LONG AGO....

I get why "Heroes And Villains" is usually the opener in most mixes, and what they were trying to do with it. And, I've tried it there several times myself. But, it just doesn't sound right, especially when I follow it with "Worms" (c'mon, Plymouth Rock should come first). Right now - and that could change tonight! - I am viewing "Heroes And Villains" as Brian's opus for SMiLE (not ignoring "Surf's Up"), and using it closer to the end of the mix, almost like a "summary" song. I merge Part 1 with Part 2 and make it a long suite if you will, a kitchen sink version if you will, fading out over the horizon with "False Barnyard". Then I bring it down with "Our Prayer" and close with "Surf's Up".

[John Manning]

I really daren't set my version ("mix" is the wrong word… I don't have the multitracks and can't mix anything - I can only rearrange the order of finished tracks or perhaps edit sections into different orders… mixing is what engineers, producers etc do) down in words cos that would involve it leaving my head and being beyond my control…

[Catbirdman]

I love "Heroes And Villains" as an opener, and the chronology question folks have raised in this thread is not a problem for me at all. Quite the contrary actually. To me "Heroes" is a great in medias res bam! right at the beginning of the American epic, and it grounds the whole thing firmly in a visceral, personalized story of one man's experience smack in the middle of the country's crazy, sweeping odyssey. Then you follow it up with the backstory, via the appropriately abridged, travel-guide vignettes like "Worms," which work as nice prequels and gain more power from having "Heroes" come first.

Unrelated thought that came to me as I was typing the above: another thing I adore about the Smile material is how cartoonish it is. Musically and lyrically both. A perfect match. Man, I love this stuff.

[Zander]

Aaahhh... I'm guessing you never experienced the Male Ego forum. Man, that made this place at its worst seem like a Care Bears fan convention. Ego was cage fighting with chainsaws while juggling scorpions and nitroglycerine.

Damn, I miss it.  

A most awesome board ...

[Ron]

I let Brian make my personal Smile mix for me about 10 years ago.  That sh*t was GOOD you guys should check it out.  He released it about 2 years ago, I think it was called "Mark Linett presents: SMiLE" or something like that. 

Prob. the best fan mix I've heard. 

 

[soniclovenoize]

Sheriff John Stone, I think the reason you guys are in the minority on that point is because Heroes was undeniably going to be the big single, and tradition dictates that that lead off the sides of an LP.

Yes, I think that "Heroes And Villains" (or "Good Vibrations") would've led off SMiLE. And, I really don't think that "Our Prayer" would've preceded it. But we've been over that territory before....

I'm not really a lyric guy, especially with BB/BW music, and even SMiLE, but I can't get past the fact that "Heroes And Villains" is such a past tense song lyrically. I've BEEN in this town so long, I've BEEN TAKEN for lost and gone, FELL in love YEARS AGO, bullets eventually BROUGHT her down, just see what you've DONE, my children WERE raised, they STARTED SLOW LONG AGO....

I get why "Heroes And Villains" is usually the opener in most mixes, and what they were trying to do with it. And, I've tried it there several times myself. But, it just doesn't sound right, especially when I follow it with "Worms" (c'mon, Plymouth Rock should come first). Right now - and that could change tonight! - I am viewing "Heroes And Villains" as Brian's opus for SMiLE (not ignoring "Surf's Up"), and using it closer to the end of the mix, almost like a "summary" song. I merge Part 1 with Part 2 and make it a long suite if you will, a kitchen sink version if you will, fading out over the horizon with "False Barnyard". Then I bring it down with "Our Prayer" and close with "Surf's Up".

"Once upon a time..." 

[Summertime Blooz]

As for SMILE sequences, well my own is in my head and it changes every day....Worms and Cabinessence precede Heroes (chronology and all that)…  One day I might have the time to take all those little pieces I've amassed over the last 38 years and weave them into something I can plug into my iPod and take everywhere, though having it to hand will spoil much of that magic in my head.

I have "Worms" and "Cabinessence" preceding "Heroes And Villains", too! I have a feeling we're in the minority there. I know you mentioned your mix is in your head, but I'd be interested in seeing it if you'd care to share it  

I'm another fan of having Worms come first, followed by H&V. That's the way it's sequenced on that darn pesky Capitol memo. Why do you think that is?

[Gabo]

I let Brian make my personal Smile mix for me about 10 years ago.  That sh*t was GOOD you guys should check it out.  He released it about 2 years ago, I think it was called "Mark Linett presents: SMiLE" or something like that. 

Prob. the best fan mix I've heard. 

 

I hate TSS reinvisioned Smile. Too many backing tracks. I just get bored to tears by stuff like Look, Dada, etc.

My ten song Smile is perfect for my needs.