New Mike interview in HuffPost

[DonnyL]

Let's say that back in the day Brian could fire Murry and Murry wrote letters about how he couldn't control Brian but for some reason Brian couldn't get the names correct on a form before he signed them.  Brian has admitted he knew Mike was being wronged/cheated. Why didn't Brian pay Mike the money he knew improperly went to him instead of to Mike out of his royalties?

I honestly doubt he was paying that much attention to the forms he signed (and I doubt Mike was either). A secretary probably handed him a stack of forms periodically, and he likely just signed away and went to dinner. In fact, this whole thing could be as simple as Murry defaulted to a 'Brian Wilson' credit unless someone specifically made it a point to tell him otherwise. And Brian was focused on the music, not the credits. Particularly if Mike was adding lyrics in the studio during the session ... maybe the paperwork was filed beforehand? Or maybe Brian or anyone else was not taking notes as to who wrote what while focusing on the arrangement and production.

If somehow it happened 35 times that Brian managed to get himself credited but not his co-author, wouldn't it be an explanation but not an excuse. When it was pointed out to Brian, don't you think he had the responsibility to make it right?

Well, I'm not personally convinced that Mike was owed credit on 35 or 39 songs or whatever. Maybe a handful ... some are obvious and unchallenged, like "Calif. Girls". Personally, if he only wrote 'Good night, sleep tight' on WIBN, then no, I don't think he should have been credited. And if there are others with a similar contribution, it's really taking advantage of Brian not challenging what is and what isn't part of the songwriting. Mike may not have been awarded credits on all of these songs if Brian had been assertive in court ("No, Tony Asher and I specifically wrote 'WIBN' without Mike Love. Mike added some arrangement ideas during the session, but so did Hal Blaine and Carl Wilson", etc.)

That said, I do agree that it was/is Brian's responsibility to make sure the credits were in order. But I am simply pointing out that he was not capable of meeting that responsibility. I also think it was his responsibility to raise his daughters (Carnie and Wendy), and he doesn't appear to have done much of that either. But again, it's also clear he was not capable of that due to mental illness.

And we are looking at this situation in isolation, as a 'songwriting issue'. You could make a good argument that Brian's production ability was the chief reason the Beach Boys had so much success. And you could say that he deserved the full songwriting credit because he was not paid as a producer. You could say Brian deserved some slack because he's sort of a fragile guy, and this fragility was part of why he was able to make the music so good.

[SMiLE Brian]

Thats what you believe dancing bear along with BBs being lucky to have "all american" Mike Love to keep the group from "druggie" musical explorations from BW.

I'm too afraid to start wondering what YOU believe, sir. I'm not touching THAT with a ten foot pole. 

What is so scary about Brian Wilson is the main creative force behind the BBs?

That Mike Love rewrote history in the 1990s onwards, and you are living proof of that....

Man, what's the fucking problem with you? I don't give a crap what your nationality, age, appearance, politics or religion are, much less how you see the Beach Boys' history. I barely know that you miss OSD because you manage to point that out twice a week.

But I see that my opinions make you angry. Well... We have two options: I can supress my opinions or you can seek treatment. I vote for number two.

Or option number 3, you keep posting and I point out how much of a ML fanboy you are.

[Dancing Bear]

Thats what you believe dancing bear along with BBs being lucky to have "all american" Mike Love to keep the group from "druggie" musical explorations from BW.

I'm too afraid to start wondering what YOU believe, sir. I'm not touching THAT with a ten foot pole. 

What is so scary about Brian Wilson is the main creative force behind the BBs?

That Mike Love rewrote history in the 1990s onwards, and you are living proof of that....

Man, what's the fucking problem with you? I don't give a crap what your nationality, age, appearance, politics or religion are, much less how you see the Beach Boys' history. I barely know that you miss OSD because you manage to point that out twice a week.

But I see that my opinions make you angry. Well... We have two options: I can supress my opinions or you can seek treatment. I vote for number two.

Or option number 3, you keep posting and I point out how much of a ML fanboy you are.

Oh the ironies... 

[SMiLE Brian]

Thats what you believe dancing bear along with BBs being lucky to have "all american" Mike Love to keep the group from "druggie" musical explorations from BW.

I'm too afraid to start wondering what YOU believe, sir. I'm not touching THAT with a ten foot pole. 

What is so scary about Brian Wilson is the main creative force behind the BBs?

That Mike Love rewrote history in the 1990s onwards, and you are living proof of that....

Man, what's the fucking problem with you? I don't give a crap what your nationality, age, appearance, politics or religion are, much less how you see the Beach Boys' history. I barely know that you miss OSD because you manage to point that out twice a week.

But I see that my opinions make you angry. Well... We have two options: I can supress my opinions or you can seek treatment. I vote for number two.

Or option number 3, you keep posting and I point out how much of a ML fanboy you are.

Oh the ironies... 

What's wrong with being a fan of Brian Wilson, one of greatest composers of the 20th century?

[filledeplage]

Well, that new interview from Mike sums it all up, really. Fascinating stuff.

And it is funny to me -- and this is where I personally have always found the lawsuit opportunistic -- how you go from "I wrote California Girls" to "I wrote CG and I Get Around" to "I wrote a half-dozen songs that I talked to Brian about" to "Mike Love gets newly credited on 39 songs, out of a claimed 79."

It would only take ONE legal statement from Brian to forbid credit for Mike in many of those 39 songs.

"Oh, you know Brian's afraid of Mike, but we know the truth".

Yeah, Brian's so afraid of Mike that he avoided a reunion for 16 years and blameed Mike for the collapse of Smile in the official DVD. Brian really goes out of his way to avoid pissing off his cousin.

Avoiding a reunion for 16 years totally squares with Brian being scared of (or wanting to avoid) Mike. They're not different things at all. And Brian blaming Mike for the collapse of something has nothing to do with whether or not Brian's afraid of him on a face-to-face basis.

In general, my advice for writing posts is to make sure that the sentences follow logically from one to another and end up making some sort of point by the end. Just a friendly tip!

Wirestone - The West Coast always got to see Brian over time, where the rest of us, never saw him.  In my case, not for 20 years of going to concerts.  That said, I think the catalyst and a defining moment was when it was reported that he told his brother, Carl, when he was near death that he (Brian) was going to "stay around" for awhile.

It may have had an enormous impact on Brian making a conscious decision to "live" and be productive.  Carl had held up the band, and it almost seemed as though, there was a role reversal with the younger sibling taking care of the older one.  

My impression is that Brian took that newly inspired force and put his efforts into songwriting, as a solo, which may have been cathartic, in a way that rejoining the Boys was not possible then.  I think he found the voice he was looking for - for years, when he had to face life without his brothers.  I think he "wrote his way" through his grief.

I like that work, because it shows acceptance and the will to live.  That has nothing to do with Mike.  And, I think that C50 and the tributes with the intense fan reaction, finally gave Brian the message that his loss of Dennis and Carl was everyone else's as well.  And that experience may have validated whatever he did during the space of those years.  

[clack]

Something changed in 1965, after 'California Girls' -- from then on Mike was credited (with the exception -- justified -- of WIBN). Look at all the co-writes on 'Wild Honey', for instance.

Did Mike complain? Threaten to sue? Did Brian or Murray spontaneously decide to do the right thing? Or was it that Brian tired of being Mr Everything and decided to spread around the producing and writing credits and duties?

[RioGrande]

I don't think anyone here hates Brian. Some people just think that having a butthole for a father is not enough to absolve him 100% for not crediting Mike on songs Mike wrote the bulk of lyrics for. Murry being abusive didn't stop Brian from quitting the road when he wanted to against Murry's wishes, or giving away top shelf material to Jan & Dean against Murry's wishes or firing his dad as the band's manager. Brian could certainly stand up to his father when he really wanted to.

As I said, not to worry. Whether what I read from some posters here is due to hatred towards Brian or an excess of love for lawsuits instead of music, is ultimately of no consequence. I am only a bit surprised at the amount of unrelenting flack Brian gets from guys who should, in theory, be big fans of his. Hey, who wrote all that music? Brian's rep as great artist in the world at large remains unsullied either way.

Are you sure you wouldn't be happier over at the Bloo?

No dude. And I'm sure there's more sense, not to mention talent, in Mike's real beard.

[RioGrande]

What's wrong with being a fan of Brian Wilson, one of greatest composers of the 20th century?

Nothing, as all the world outside of a dozen delusional guys here knows.

[Mikie]

Whenever this subject of songwriting credits comes up, it makes me think of whether Mike was telling the truth regarding his involvement with specific songs. Songs such as "Wouldn't It Be Nice", where Tony Asher questioned any Mike Love input and credit and said that Mike would have had to phone in some lyrics to it at the last minute (i.e. sleep tight baby, goodnight baby) shortly before the recording of it, because he (Tony) was a witness to all of it, even the recording session as I recall.

That's not what has been said.

Yes it was. Way back when, during an interview with Asher. Maybe a little after the 1992 settlement. Not word for word, but along those lines.

[RioGrande]

I chimed here for a bit just to show what people outside think about this stuff, if professional articles and reviews and most comments everywhere are not enough. Bear, Beard & C, you can keep on patting one another's backs and telling one another that you are so cool and spitting on everyone else, but you know what the general consensus is out of here. Maybe that's what makes you so rude, angry and intolerant. Brian is considered by almost everyone able to tell a note from a rat one of the greatest, or even THE greatest songwriter around in the last 50 years, all the rest is delusion.

[RioGrande]

Reality check over. Bye.

[leggo of my ego]

my favorite brian quote from this period was when brian was asked what did he think about mike winning the suit and brian said....he didn't know much, one day he had $5 million in the bank and the next day he didn't.

  Spoken like a true Rock Star. Ya gotta love Brian Wilson.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Next personal attack in this thread gets a lifetime ban. I don't care which side it comes from either. This thread is beyond disgusting. If any of you can't post without throwing childish insults at each other, then take it to PM or just leave. I am quite frankly disgusted by the lack of maturity in this thread. I get it...the two sides disagree completely. That's okay. What is not okay is some of the things being said to one another. Have some motherfucking DECENCY for goodness' sake

[Robbie Mac]

I don't think anyone here hates Brian. Some people just think that having a butthole for a father is not enough to absolve him 100% for not crediting Mike on songs Mike wrote the bulk of lyrics for. Murry being abusive didn't stop Brian from quitting the road when he wanted to against Murry's wishes, or giving away top shelf material to Jan & Dean against Murry's wishes or firing his dad as the band's manager. Brian could certainly stand up to his father when he really wanted to.

As I said, not to worry. Whether what I read from some posters here is due to hatred towards Brian or an excess of love for lawsuits instead of music, is ultimately of no consequence. I am only a bit surprised at the amount of unrelenting flack Brian gets from guys who should, in theory, be big fans of his. Hey, who wrote all that music? Brian's rep as great artist in the world at large remains unsullied either way.

He 
Are you sure you wouldn't be happier over at the Bloo?

That was such a hilarious comeback back in 2004. Good days, those.

Thanks for the history lesson but who asked you anything anyway buttinski?

He knows a helluva lot more than you, pal.

[Shady]

Well this escalated quickly

[Dancing Bear]

Thats what you believe dancing bear along with BBs being lucky to have "all american" Mike Love to keep the group from "druggie" musical explorations from BW.

I'm too afraid to start wondering what YOU believe, sir. I'm not touching THAT with a ten foot pole. 

What is so scary about Brian Wilson is the main creative force behind the BBs?

That Mike Love rewrote history in the 1990s onwards, and you are living proof of that....

Man, what's the fucking problem with you? I don't give a crap what your nationality, age, appearance, politics or religion are, much less how you see the Beach Boys' history. I barely know that you miss OSD because you manage to point that out twice a week.

But I see that my opinions make you angry. Well... We have two options: I can supress my opinions or you can seek treatment. I vote for number two.

Or option number 3, you keep posting and I point out how much of a ML fanboy you are.

Oh the ironies... 

What's wrong with being a fan of Brian Wilson, one of greatest composers of the 20th century?

Nothing wrong, I'm a big fan of them all too, otherwise I wouldn't have dozens of Beach Boys albums and CDs.

But you know, he's just a human being, just like Mike, Al, Dennis, Carl and Bruce. Those guys make mistakes just like us, the difference being that they make PUBLIC mistakes. You seem to be more bothered by Mike's actions in the last 50 years than Brian is nowadays, for God's sake.

Chill out and go listen to 'Warmth of teh Sun' ten times in a row, music by Brian Wilson and lyrics by Mike Love. What a great partnership.

[18thofMay]

I just had a fight with my wife via sms...

[jamsvet]

"ML: I learned that when you do the best job that you can do, some people will idolize you, others won't care and some will vilify you. I believe it is important to remain humble and thankful for the blessings in our lives, for the tremendous opportunities that are a result of our musical success."

22 pages and counting

[jamsvet]

"ML: I learned that when you do the best job that you can do, some people will idolize you, others won't care and some will vilify you. I believe it is important to remain humble and thankful for the blessings in our lives, for the tremendous opportunities that are a result of our musical success."

22 pages and counting

[Jason]

Next personal attack in this thread gets a lifetime ban. I don't care which side it comes from either. This thread is beyond disgusting. If any of you can't post without throwing childish insults at each other, then take it to PM or just leave. I am quite frankly disgusted by the lack of maturity in this thread. I get it...the two sides disagree completely. That's okay. What is not okay is some of the things being said to one another. Have some motherfucking DECENCY for goodness' sake

Seconded. I'm backing Billy 100% on this. Tread lightly or take it to PMs.

[KittyKat]

Brian has been touring as a solo for over ten years. His website and official message board have existed for over ten years.  A lot of newer people have come to the fandom via that site and also reading things such as Brian's "autobiography," which didn't sell much, but is still in wide circulation and even in print in countries outside the United States. When I first got into reading more about the Beach Boys on the Internet, reading discussions on Usenet, in the late 1990's, there was a more balanced, nuanced view among the fans, even the ones who weren't terribly fond of Mike. However, many of those folks had watched the Beach Boys in concert for years (when Brian rarely toured with them) and collected the records. They loved the entire band, as well as Brian. They were at least respectful of people who were more generous towards Mike than they were willing to be (Mike fans have always seemed to be in the minority). It's interesting to see how the fan discussion has developed/devolved over the years.  

[Mikie]

Have some motherfucking DECENCY for goodness' sake.

 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

What's wrong with being a fan of Brian Wilson, one of greatest composers of the 20th century?

Nothing, as all the world outside of a dozen delusional guys here knows.

and there's something wrong with being a Mike Love fan?

I actually think this kind of thing probably irritates Brian. I mean the last thing one of the greatest pop composers of the 20th century needs is a bunch of fanboys managing to overrate him!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Brian has been touring as a solo for over ten years. His website and official message board have existed for over ten years.  A lot of newer people have come to the fandom via that site and also reading things such as Brian's "autobiography," which didn't sell much, but is still in wide circulation and even in print in countries outside the United States. When I first got into reading more about the Beach Boys on the Internet, reading discussions on Usenet, in the late 1990's, there was a more balanced, nuanced view among the fans, even the ones who weren't terribly fond of Mike. However, many of those folks had watched the Beach Boys in concert for years (when Brian rarely toured with them) and collected the records. They loved the entire band, as well as Brian. They were at least respectful of people who were more generous towards Mike than they were willing to be (Mike fans have always seemed to be in the minority). It's interesting to see how the fan discussion has developed/devolved over the years.  

I became a fan in 1995, and joined the old Mike Wheeler board a year later.  I became a fan during that brief time where BW was considered to be a god amongst indie rock circles. During that time Brian was the one to be admired and did no wrong, and the rest of the band was an embarrassment (this was before Jon's book made DW regain his rightful stature). That wasn't any more accurate than the flip side. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

What's wrong with being a fan of Brian Wilson, one of greatest composers of the 20th century?

Nothing, as all the world outside of a dozen delusional guys here knows.

and there's something wrong with being a Mike Love fan?

I actually think this kind of thing probably irritates Brian. I mean the last thing one of the greatest pop composers of the 20th century needs is a bunch of fanboys managing to overrate him!

I've been told it does...mainly, Brian doesn't enjoy/ gets annoyed by gushing.