I think I can understand why Brian might not wanna write much with Mike...

[Jim V.]

So after "Goin' To The Beach" has come out, I decided to have a look at the video from the "Goin' Platinum"  special where Brian and Mike are at the piano working on the song. And there's Brian, taking a genuine interest in this piece of sh*t Mike brought to the table, but trying to make the best of it. So Brian plays it on the piano, trying to add some interesting left hand parts. He then asks Mike if he liked it or something like that, and Mike's reply is to go "yeah, sure, whatever" or the equivalent of that. And we wonder why Brian largely doesn't wanna write with Mike.

To me, it seems quite possible to me that a main reason Brian might not wanna write with Mike, at least together in a room, is that Mike really has nothing to contribute. He doesn't really play an instrument, seems to have no interest in possible variations on the bass line or the chord progression, and basically seemed indifferent to anything Brian was trying to do to make the song better in that video. Why would Brian wanna put himself back in that situation?

So what I think Brian looks for in a collaborator these days (and pretty much since Tony Asher) is somebody who knows how to make music, someone he can bounce ideas off. People like the aforementioned Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, Tandyn Almer, Andy Paley, and yes, even Joe Thomas. So yeah, sometimes he's used just lyric writers, but usually I think he's looking for more.

[ontor pertawst]

Plus, Joe Thomas has a full, rich mane of Jim Belushi Chicago Guy hair that he likes to run his fingers through while collaborating. Mike has hats, and hats make Brian uncomfortable indoors. "You wanna maybe take your hat off, Mike? We're alone in a room." "I'm ok, Cousin Brian." "Uhhh..."

[ontor pertawst]

DELETED FOR SAFETY REASONS

[Lowbacca]

[Mike] doesn't really play an instrument [...]

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[ontor pertawst]

Also, we must never forget that one time he used a guitar as a cane.

[Cabinessenceking]

I also noticed that part and always thought to myself 'geez this guy isn't even close to being a musician. talk about being a free rider your whole life'

People may praise Mike for his 1962-1965 lyrics + a few bits and bops after that, but even in that 1962-65 period it is obvious that in their 'collaborations' Brian wrote the the chords, the vocal melody and probably also the theme for the song. I can imagine Brian did 80% of the work without Mike and then for the last finish Brian would bounce ideas on what specific lyrics they used (and Mike did well in helping with those lyrics).

[Cabinessenceking]

Also, we must never forget that one time he used a guitar as a cane.

whenever I think SIP was the last truly aweful thing Mike did to this band's legacy a wild 'Beach Boys Salute Nascar' appears out of nowhere.

[pixletwin]

LOL especially at Lowbacca's post. 

But I must say, are vocalists not musicians? Pretty sure there are a host of singers who would beg to differ.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

[Lowbacca]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

Dito. There's more to Mike than meets the eye, I guess. I think Brian is fully aware of his cousin's contribution and his value as a collaborator. It's a shame it doesn't work out anymore.

[Jim V.]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

Possibly. But this is when Brian himself was presumed to be a bit more uninterested in The Beach Boys and working on their material in the studio. And not only is he involved, but he is working on a song Mike Love brought in. And he's trying to help Mike improve it. And Mike responds to Brian's suggestions with a "yeah, sure, whatever" type shrug. And actually, until the reunion, I'm pretty sure the KTSA era was the last time they really got together and wrote, besides "Baywatch Nights" from 1995. And I guess "Male Ego", maybe.

But regardless of when it happened, I'm sure Brian takes account of his experiences with Mike throughout the years. And I highly doubt that this was the only time Mike acted flippantly to Brian's musical suggestions over the years, especially as this was on camera, and one would think they were putting on their best behavior.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Mike wrote some great lyrics. But at the same time, when the man has the cojones to compare himself to Paul McCartney, well that kinda gets me going. John and Paul wrote great stuff together surely. And bounced many ideas off of each other. But they also wrote a whole lot of great stuff independently. How many undeniable classics has Mike Love done without Brian Wilson (and no, "Kokomo" doesn't count since, well.....the actual song itself was written by John Phillips and there woulda been no need for Mike's "hook" without it)? He's got "Big Sur" if we're being generous. And what else? He's nowhere close to being Lennon or McCartney. Artistically, I'd  probably rate him a bit higher than Roger Daltrey because he wrote lyrics to a nice chunk of great stuff. But at the same time, it seems Daltrey is much more willing to admit what he owes to Townshend than Love is willing to admit what he owes to Wilson. But overall, they are what they are. Great frontmen for two great bands who were spearheaded by a leader who was not them.

[Cam Mott]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

You might be loading too much on your interpretation of a single event. Edit: I meant that for jim not pinder. Back to my nap.

[Jim V.]

You might be loading too much on your interpretation of a single event. Edit: I meant that for jim not pinder. Back to my nap.

This coming from the guy who denied Mike had leadership of the group artistically from during the late '80s and early '90s despite all available evidence. You twist every fact to fit your own agenda. So if I draw my own interpretation of a televised event, I think that's valid. I didn't say it was the truth. However, I think it quite possibly could be part and parcel of the guys relationship leading up to today, and why Brian has no interest in working with somebody who has no real interest in expressing himself, but would rather just see dollar signs.

And despite it all, I think it just needs to be pointed out around here that artistically, especially in the past 30 years, Mike Love has been pathetic. Regardless of playing "Duke of Earl" in concert or what happened with C50, the man spearheaded the most embarrassing music of the bands career. And despite what a great frontman he was/is, or anything else good or bad that has happened, it is his attention to his misguided view of "commerciality" and his view that what the public wants from The Beach Boys studio-wise is nostalgic retreads, without paying attention to the fact that what made the old music great was not just the topic, or even the style, it was talent and the inspiration of the creator(s).

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

Possibly. But this is when Brian himself was presumed to be a bit more uninterested in The Beach Boys and working on their material in the studio. And not only is he involved, but he is working on a song Mike Love brought in. And he's trying to help Mike improve it. And Mike responds to Brian's suggestions with a "yeah, sure, whatever" type shrug. And actually, until the reunion, I'm pretty sure the KTSA era was the last time they really got together and wrote, besides "Baywatch Nights" from 1995. And I guess "Male Ego", maybe.

But regardless of when it happened, I'm sure Brian takes account of his experiences with Mike throughout the years. And I highly doubt that this was the only time Mike acted flippantly to Brian's musical suggestions over the years, especially as this was on camera, and one would think they were putting on their best behavior.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Mike wrote some great lyrics. But at the same time, when the man has the cojones to compare himself to Paul McCartney, well that kinda gets me going. John and Paul wrote great stuff together surely. And bounced many ideas off of each other. But they also wrote a whole lot of great stuff independently. How many undeniable classics has Mike Love done without Brian Wilson (and no, "Kokomo" doesn't count since, well.....the actual song itself was written by John Phillips and there woulda been no need for Mike's "hook" without it)? He's got "Big Sur" if we're being generous. And what else? He's nowhere close to being Lennon or McCartney. Artistically, I'd  probably rate him a bit higher than Roger Daltrey because he wrote lyrics to a nice chunk of great stuff. But at the same time, it seems Daltrey is much more willing to admit what he owes to Townshend than Love is willing to admit what he owes to Wilson. But overall, they are what they are. Great frontmen for two great bands who were spearheaded by a leader who was not them.

But let's be fair: this isn't footage from the writing of some legendary song like Good Vibrations. These guys were tired and worked to death and Brian's just banging out some chords. Just because he's Brian Wilson doesn't mean Mike has to gape in awe over anything/everything he paws out on the piano. He didn't scold Brian or say his contributions sucked. We shouldn't be so quick to infer too much from a mere moment caught on film.

And need it be repeated that Daltry being so publicly gracious to Townsend is also coming from a guy who's also beat the sh*t out of Pete? We don't see Mike doing THAT in the clip, do we?

[oldsurferdude]

You might be loading too much on your interpretation of a single event. Edit: I meant that for jim not pinder. Back to my nap.

This coming from the guy who denied Mike had leadership of the group artistically from during the late '80s and early '90s despite all available evidence. You twist every fact to fit your own agenda. So if I draw my own interpretation of a televised event, I think that's valid. I didn't say it was the truth. However, I think it quite possibly could be part and parcel of the guys relationship leading up to today, and why Brian has no interest in working with somebody who has no real interest in expressing himself, but would rather just see dollar signs.

And despite it all, I think it just needs to be pointed out around here that artistically, especially in the past 30 years, Mike Love has been pathetic. Regardless of playing "Duke of Earl" in concert or what happened with C50, the man spearheaded the most embarrassing music of the bands career. And despite what a great frontman he was/is, or anything else good or bad that has happened, it is his attention to his misguided view of "commerciality" and his view that what the public wants from The Beach Boys studio-wise is nostalgic retreads, without paying attention to the fact that what made the old music great was not just the topic, or even the style, it was talent and the inspiration of the creator(s).

+3,904

[Jim V.]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

Possibly. But this is when Brian himself was presumed to be a bit more uninterested in The Beach Boys and working on their material in the studio. And not only is he involved, but he is working on a song Mike Love brought in. And he's trying to help Mike improve it. And Mike responds to Brian's suggestions with a "yeah, sure, whatever" type shrug. And actually, until the reunion, I'm pretty sure the KTSA era was the last time they really got together and wrote, besides "Baywatch Nights" from 1995. And I guess "Male Ego", maybe.

But regardless of when it happened, I'm sure Brian takes account of his experiences with Mike throughout the years. And I highly doubt that this was the only time Mike acted flippantly to Brian's musical suggestions over the years, especially as this was on camera, and one would think they were putting on their best behavior.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Mike wrote some great lyrics. But at the same time, when the man has the cojones to compare himself to Paul McCartney, well that kinda gets me going. John and Paul wrote great stuff together surely. And bounced many ideas off of each other. But they also wrote a whole lot of great stuff independently. How many undeniable classics has Mike Love done without Brian Wilson (and no, "Kokomo" doesn't count since, well.....the actual song itself was written by John Phillips and there woulda been no need for Mike's "hook" without it)? He's got "Big Sur" if we're being generous. And what else? He's nowhere close to being Lennon or McCartney. Artistically, I'd  probably rate him a bit higher than Roger Daltrey because he wrote lyrics to a nice chunk of great stuff. But at the same time, it seems Daltrey is much more willing to admit what he owes to Townshend than Love is willing to admit what he owes to Wilson. But overall, they are what they are. Great frontmen for two great bands who were spearheaded by a leader who was not them.

But let's be fair: this isn't footage from the writing of some legendary song like Good Vibrations. These guys were tired and worked to death and Brian's just banging out some chords. Just because he's Brian Wilson doesn't mean Mike has to gape in awe over anything/everything he paws out on the piano. He didn't scold Brian or say his contributions sucked. We shouldn't be so quick to infer too much from a mere moment caught on film.

And need it be repeated that Daltry being so publicly gracious to Townsend is also coming from a guy who's also beat the sh*t out of Pete? We don't see Mike doing THAT in the clip, do we?

First off, I'm not saying Mike had to genuflect to Brian when he was making that part. But possibly showing some kind of interest into what this guy was trying to do to help his own fucking song woulda been more appropriate, dontcha think? And your inference that they were "tired" and "worked to death" is much more ridiculous than me inferring that Mike seemed uninterested. They looked pretty up and at it in that clip, no signs of being tired or overworked. Quite the opposite actually.

And about Daltrey hitting Pete....well, if there was a guy who was running over to hit you over the head with his guitar you might put your fist in his face too.

And no, Mike didn't beat up Brian. He left that to his brother to do.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

Possibly. But this is when Brian himself was presumed to be a bit more uninterested in The Beach Boys and working on their material in the studio. And not only is he involved, but he is working on a song Mike Love brought in. And he's trying to help Mike improve it. And Mike responds to Brian's suggestions with a "yeah, sure, whatever" type shrug. And actually, until the reunion, I'm pretty sure the KTSA era was the last time they really got together and wrote, besides "Baywatch Nights" from 1995. And I guess "Male Ego", maybe.

But regardless of when it happened, I'm sure Brian takes account of his experiences with Mike throughout the years. And I highly doubt that this was the only time Mike acted flippantly to Brian's musical suggestions over the years, especially as this was on camera, and one would think they were putting on their best behavior.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Mike wrote some great lyrics. But at the same time, when the man has the cojones to compare himself to Paul McCartney, well that kinda gets me going. John and Paul wrote great stuff together surely. And bounced many ideas off of each other. But they also wrote a whole lot of great stuff independently. How many undeniable classics has Mike Love done without Brian Wilson (and no, "Kokomo" doesn't count since, well.....the actual song itself was written by John Phillips and there woulda been no need for Mike's "hook" without it)? He's got "Big Sur" if we're being generous. And what else? He's nowhere close to being Lennon or McCartney. Artistically, I'd  probably rate him a bit higher than Roger Daltrey because he wrote lyrics to a nice chunk of great stuff. But at the same time, it seems Daltrey is much more willing to admit what he owes to Townshend than Love is willing to admit what he owes to Wilson. But overall, they are what they are. Great frontmen for two great bands who were spearheaded by a leader who was not them.

But let's be fair: this isn't footage from the writing of some legendary song like Good Vibrations. These guys were tired and worked to death and Brian's just banging out some chords. Just because he's Brian Wilson doesn't mean Mike has to gape in awe over anything/everything he paws out on the piano. He didn't scold Brian or say his contributions sucked. We shouldn't be so quick to infer too much from a mere moment caught on film.

And need it be repeated that Daltry being so publicly gracious to Townsend is also coming from a guy who's also beat the sh*t out of Pete? We don't see Mike doing THAT in the clip, do we?

First off, I'm not saying Mike had to genuflect to Brian when he was making that part. But possibly showing some kind of interest into what this guy was trying to do to help his own fucking song woulda been more appropriate, dontcha think? And your inference that they were "tired" and "worked to death" is much more ridiculous than me inferring that Mike seemed uninterested. They looked pretty up and at it in that clip, no signs of being tired or overworked. Quite the opposite actually.

And about Daltrey hitting Pete....well, if there was a guy who was running over to hit you over the head with his guitar you might put your fist in his face too.

And no, Mike didn't beat up Brian. He left that to his brother to do.

I think I'll remove myself from this convo now since your position seems to be coming from complete irrational hatred of Mike.

Maybe Mike thought Brian could do better. I've acted much the same way under similar songwriting circumstances as have many people....

OR...... maybe Brian just hates Mike as much as you and takes every utterance, facial expression, action as badly as all the other Mike haters.

[Sam_BFC]

I think I can understand why Brian might not wanna write much with Mike...

Not commenting on the rest of your post (which raises some interesting interpretations), but that is a massive statement to make when you think about it.

[bossaroo]

can you post a link to this Goin' Platinum clip?

[seltaeb1012002]

I think it's being slightly misinterpreted, in the same way that Carl's facial expressions (when trying to figure out a harmony) were said to be him "making faces at how bad the song is". When Brian asks Mike if he likes the background harmony Mike laughs and says "Yeah! Sure!". I don't think there's anything wrong with this. YES, he could've been a LITTLE more enthusiastic, but I think Mike would've liked anything that Brian came up with, and was excited to get him in on the song. So, it's like he's saying.. "Yeah, of course!".

Here's the footage in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_3ZlgzFqz8

[Sheriff John Stone]

So what I think Brian looks for in a collaborator these days (and pretty much since Tony Asher) is somebody who knows how to make music, someone he can bounce ideas off. People like the aforementioned Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, Tandyn Almer, Andy Paley, and yes, even Joe Thomas. So yeah, sometimes he's used just lyric writers, but usually I think he's looking for more.

Before I get to my main point.... I think you're putting to much weight on that rather brief 1980 clip, which was a staged songwriting "example" of how Brian and Mike work. It was more for entertainment value than informational purposes. If we start assuming too much from staged clips like this, we'll have to dismiss most of the Beautiful Dreamer documentary (which I've already done anyway).

What does Brian look for in a collaborator today and why doesn't Mike fit that description? To me it's simple and I don't care how many people it offends. For a long, long time, but especially in his solo career, I think it is important for Brian to collaborate with people who are going to - not just help him start or finish a song - but write, arrange, and produce a large part of the song.

In Brian's heyday, there was a clear cut distinction. Brian was responsible for the music, and the lyricists were responsible for the concepts and words. Of course it wasn't always absolute, and of course Brian's early collaborators offered the occasional riff, melody, or arrangement. But, overall - largely overall - Brian's collaborators were mainly lyricists. Mike Love, Roger Christian, Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, and Jack Reiley did not write much music. The stories are legendary how Brian would have ideas WHEN he came into the studio, he had the WHOLE song in his head, he TAUGHT the musicians certain parts; he was in charge, in control, the driving force. The lyricists wrote words.

I think that writing concept and the percentage of what Brian wrote and what his collaborators wrote gradually changed. Take "Sweet Mountain" for example. That was David Sandler's song, but Brian got/gets most of the credit for it. How much of "Sail On Sailor" did Brian write, arrange, or produce? Moving ahead to Brian's solo career, and starting specifically with his 1988 solo album, there are collaborators and producers and lyricists all over the place. Why?

Well, I already theorized why. And, because of that, Brian's needs more from a collaborator than Mike Love has to offer. Sure, as has been stated ad nauseum, Mike Love isn't a musician, producer, arranger; some would even go as far as saying that Mike isn't even an artist. And that finally caught up with Mike in his songwriting relationship with Brian because Brian needs more from a collaborator. Much more. Much more than lyrics. He needs collaborators to write parts of the songs. If Brian and hisdoctorandwifeandmanagers are seeking collaborators to work with Brian - today - Mike Love ain't at the top of that list. Lindsey Buckingham, Jeff Lynne, Andy Paley, Scott Bennett, Jim Peterik, Joe Thomas, and Jeff Beck were. They wrote music.

[Sam_BFC]

Do you think Brian is worthy of his being the sole author of Good Kind of Love ?

[Jim V.]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

Possibly. But this is when Brian himself was presumed to be a bit more uninterested in The Beach Boys and working on their material in the studio. And not only is he involved, but he is working on a song Mike Love brought in. And he's trying to help Mike improve it. And Mike responds to Brian's suggestions with a "yeah, sure, whatever" type shrug. And actually, until the reunion, I'm pretty sure the KTSA era was the last time they really got together and wrote, besides "Baywatch Nights" from 1995. And I guess "Male Ego", maybe.

But regardless of when it happened, I'm sure Brian takes account of his experiences with Mike throughout the years. And I highly doubt that this was the only time Mike acted flippantly to Brian's musical suggestions over the years, especially as this was on camera, and one would think they were putting on their best behavior.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Mike wrote some great lyrics. But at the same time, when the man has the cojones to compare himself to Paul McCartney, well that kinda gets me going. John and Paul wrote great stuff together surely. And bounced many ideas off of each other. But they also wrote a whole lot of great stuff independently. How many undeniable classics has Mike Love done without Brian Wilson (and no, "Kokomo" doesn't count since, well.....the actual song itself was written by John Phillips and there woulda been no need for Mike's "hook" without it)? He's got "Big Sur" if we're being generous. And what else? He's nowhere close to being Lennon or McCartney. Artistically, I'd  probably rate him a bit higher than Roger Daltrey because he wrote lyrics to a nice chunk of great stuff. But at the same time, it seems Daltrey is much more willing to admit what he owes to Townshend than Love is willing to admit what he owes to Wilson. But overall, they are what they are. Great frontmen for two great bands who were spearheaded by a leader who was not them.

But let's be fair: this isn't footage from the writing of some legendary song like Good Vibrations. These guys were tired and worked to death and Brian's just banging out some chords. Just because he's Brian Wilson doesn't mean Mike has to gape in awe over anything/everything he paws out on the piano. He didn't scold Brian or say his contributions sucked. We shouldn't be so quick to infer too much from a mere moment caught on film.

And need it be repeated that Daltry being so publicly gracious to Townsend is also coming from a guy who's also beat the sh*t out of Pete? We don't see Mike doing THAT in the clip, do we?

First off, I'm not saying Mike had to genuflect to Brian when he was making that part. But possibly showing some kind of interest into what this guy was trying to do to help his own fucking song woulda been more appropriate, dontcha think? And your inference that they were "tired" and "worked to death" is much more ridiculous than me inferring that Mike seemed uninterested. They looked pretty up and at it in that clip, no signs of being tired or overworked. Quite the opposite actually.

And about Daltrey hitting Pete....well, if there was a guy who was running over to hit you over the head with his guitar you might put your fist in his face too.

And no, Mike didn't beat up Brian. He left that to his brother to do.

I think I'll remove myself from this convo now since your position seems to be coming from complete irrational hatred of Mike.

Maybe Mike thought Brian could do better. I've acted much the same way under similar songwriting circumstances as have many people....

OR...... maybe Brian just hates Mike as much as you and takes every utterance, facial expression, action as badly as all the other Mike haters.

Ah yes. My old favorite. That I must hate Mike because I think he is artistically bankrupt. And because I think he's a money grubber.

Now I hate to get into a dick measuring contest, but I'll say this. I enjoy a great deal of Mike Love's work. I even own that fucking Catch a Wave CD he did in the '90s with Adrian Baker. Shoot, I'd even get Summertime Cruisin' if I could find it. I enjoy listening to his voice. Even if it is weaker these days.

But like some on this board these days, I really do think that the amount of apologetics for Mike these days is ridiculous. I used to think it was pretty obvious to everyone on here that Mike Love was artistically bankrupt for much of the past 30 years. Are there really people out there who are gonna defend tripe like "Still Surfin'"? Or playing "Duke of Earl" live?

And back to my main point, it isn't quite that I think Mike didn't respect Brian's work to make a piece of trash like "Goin' To The Beach" a better song. It is the fact that I'm pretty sure he just doesn't care. He's not a musician. He likely doesn't care about chord progressions or basslines. He cares about how many records it well sell. And that's his prerogative. But I think that kinda attitude is probably why Brian only occasionally wanted to work with him. And would rather just mail him tracks to write over. Or have him come to the studio and listen, and then have him go off to write. Because Mike is pretty much useless when it comes to the actual music. That to me, makes total sense. Why are you gonna have a guy sitting next to you at the piano if he can't really contribute. You might as well do your thing, and have him do his part when the time comes. But obviously that just wasn't gonna work for Mike. He wanted to "sit in a room together". Gag me.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't know if it's a good idea to make any overlaying judgements regarding Mike or Brian's behavior/interest/etc etc, based upon a piece of footage from 1979 or 1980 of all years!!!!

Think about it....

Just sayin'....

Possibly. But this is when Brian himself was presumed to be a bit more uninterested in The Beach Boys and working on their material in the studio. And not only is he involved, but he is working on a song Mike Love brought in. And he's trying to help Mike improve it. And Mike responds to Brian's suggestions with a "yeah, sure, whatever" type shrug. And actually, until the reunion, I'm pretty sure the KTSA era was the last time they really got together and wrote, besides "Baywatch Nights" from 1995. And I guess "Male Ego", maybe.

But regardless of when it happened, I'm sure Brian takes account of his experiences with Mike throughout the years. And I highly doubt that this was the only time Mike acted flippantly to Brian's musical suggestions over the years, especially as this was on camera, and one would think they were putting on their best behavior.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Mike wrote some great lyrics. But at the same time, when the man has the cojones to compare himself to Paul McCartney, well that kinda gets me going. John and Paul wrote great stuff together surely. And bounced many ideas off of each other. But they also wrote a whole lot of great stuff independently. How many undeniable classics has Mike Love done without Brian Wilson (and no, "Kokomo" doesn't count since, well.....the actual song itself was written by John Phillips and there woulda been no need for Mike's "hook" without it)? He's got "Big Sur" if we're being generous. And what else? He's nowhere close to being Lennon or McCartney. Artistically, I'd  probably rate him a bit higher than Roger Daltrey because he wrote lyrics to a nice chunk of great stuff. But at the same time, it seems Daltrey is much more willing to admit what he owes to Townshend than Love is willing to admit what he owes to Wilson. But overall, they are what they are. Great frontmen for two great bands who were spearheaded by a leader who was not them.

But let's be fair: this isn't footage from the writing of some legendary song like Good Vibrations. These guys were tired and worked to death and Brian's just banging out some chords. Just because he's Brian Wilson doesn't mean Mike has to gape in awe over anything/everything he paws out on the piano. He didn't scold Brian or say his contributions sucked. We shouldn't be so quick to infer too much from a mere moment caught on film.

And need it be repeated that Daltry being so publicly gracious to Townsend is also coming from a guy who's also beat the sh*t out of Pete? We don't see Mike doing THAT in the clip, do we?

First off, I'm not saying Mike had to genuflect to Brian when he was making that part. But possibly showing some kind of interest into what this guy was trying to do to help his own fucking song woulda been more appropriate, dontcha think? And your inference that they were "tired" and "worked to death" is much more ridiculous than me inferring that Mike seemed uninterested. They looked pretty up and at it in that clip, no signs of being tired or overworked. Quite the opposite actually.

And about Daltrey hitting Pete....well, if there was a guy who was running over to hit you over the head with his guitar you might put your fist in his face too.

And no, Mike didn't beat up Brian. He left that to his brother to do.

I think I'll remove myself from this convo now since your position seems to be coming from complete irrational hatred of Mike.

Maybe Mike thought Brian could do better. I've acted much the same way under similar songwriting circumstances as have many people....

OR...... maybe Brian just hates Mike as much as you and takes every utterance, facial expression, action as badly as all the other Mike haters.

Ah yes. My old favorite. That I must hate Mike because I think he is artistically bankrupt. And because I think he's a money grubber.

Now I hate to get into a dick measuring contest, but I'll say this. I enjoy a great deal of Mike Love's work. I even own that fucking Catch a Wave CD he did in the '90s with Adrian Baker. Shoot, I'd even get Summertime Cruisin' if I could find it. I enjoy listening to his voice. Even if it is weaker these days.

But like some on this board these days, I really do think that the amount of apologetics for Mike these days is ridiculous. I used to think it was pretty obvious to everyone on here that Mike Love was artistically bankrupt for much of the past 30 years. Are there really people out there who are gonna defend tripe like "Still Surfin'"? Or playing "Duke of Earl" live?

And back to my main point, it isn't quite that I think Mike didn't respect Brian's work to make a piece of trash like "Goin' To The Beach" a better song. It is the fact that I'm pretty sure he just doesn't care. He's not a musician. He likely doesn't care about chord progressions or basslines. He cares about how many records it well sell. And that's his prerogative. But I think that kinda attitude is probably why Brian only occasionally wanted to work with him. And would rather just mail him tracks to write over. Or have him come to the studio and listen, and then have him go off to write. Because Mike is pretty much useless when it comes to the actual music. That to me, makes total sense. Why are you gonna have a guy sitting next to you at the piano if he can't really contribute. You might as well do your thing, and have him do his part when the time comes. But obviously that just wasn't gonna work for Mike. He wanted to "sit in a room together". Gag me.

I'm sorry but "hate" is not too strong a word at all in this case. It's practically steaming out of the monitor......

And not everyone agrees on Mike being "creatively bankrupt" ( a term tossed around like an actual legal definition) for however many decades, and if you don't like it, at least accept it.