Mike Love: 'There are a lot of fallacies about me'

[MBE]

Thoughts and again a plea for those to try to be a little more understanding of all sides,

I think the thing people just don't understand is that the group broke up many many years ago. Yet to get a show with Brian as good as 2012 you would have to go back to 1970, or maybe a really good night in 1976. They gave us more than anything I imagined last year. Maybe it's just that I am more interested in the things they did in the sixties and seventies than the things they have done since. Maybe I just remember that Mike was always going back on tour and I knew this in June of last year. Actually it was public knowledge, just not made a big deal.

Let it go. They aren't a band, haven't been in decades. Mike being the Beach Boys touring band in 2013 doesn't mean a hell of a lot. This being good or bad is not even an issue anymore, it was decided a long time ago and that's how it is.

Frankly the reunion would have meant less and the standard just would not have held up. They left it at a creative peak we didn't even dream of, they did good. Only problem is (and has been for forty years) is that they played their problems out in the press where it only needed to be the 5 of them in a room discussing a group plan. It's made too complicated by those they make money for.

The LP was good, but Mike raised a good point if you just had The Beach Boys doing all the writing and producing than you would have something even better. Still I only want a Beach Boys album or tour if they all want it equally. Take any of them out and it just is not going to be what we got last year.

What kills your entire argument with all due respect is last year to many of us they seemed to be a living, breathing entity ready to become both an active band again on stage and in the studio.  There were many of us hoping for at least another tour and maybe a couple more records coming off the high of the C50.  Quite frankly that would be what any reasonable person would expect.  You might have felt that Mike Love was going to return to the road with M&B incarnation of the band but you were in the minority.  So from that vantage point I understand a lot of fans not being able to let this go so easily and I predict this will be a topic that will continue for YEARS (yes not months but years) among Beach Boys and Brian Wilson fans.  The reason being is because at least in my opinion many of us felt like we were sold a bill of goods last year and in the end were left holding the bag and shaking our heads.  Everything about the C50 last year centered around group harmony and the idea that the myriad of problems that had plagued this band since the passing of Carl Wilson (and maybe before) were done, settled and buried and brighter days were ahead for the band and their fans.
  

Wow I guess I don't even know how to reply. I don't agree or relate on any level to that or to others who aren't satisfied. Even to get so involved emotionally in anything beyond the music (which is very worth getting attached too) has become alien to me. I just don't care what they think of each other at any given moment.

I don't care that some people dislike Mike. There's a lot of people who are more admirable, but (in show biz especially) there are so many who are far worse. Leaf's book may be hard to find, but the viewpoint it engendered is all too strongly living. Beautiful Dreamer sees that Leaf's agenda is alive and well. More stringently "victim Brian" actually than the book ever was.  I remember when this board was a lot less divided and more centered and in agreement. Last few years we are divided because we have a lot of myth seekers and fantasists who just don't treat the group members as real people. What they want isn't reality and they are angry and won't accept this.

It achieves nothing and makes this board so much uglier  Also shocked so many put so much weight in press releases. Brian didn't sweat over a keyboard to write the Times!

We can again be a great group, centered around research and fact. Debate that is about the music more than people is healthy and fun. Lately too much guesswork and judgment is serving as reality around here.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Sorry to interrupt with a technicality and sorry if this has been mentioned. Mike says "When Good Vibrations went to No 1 in 1966 and Great Britain voted us the No 1 group (1) – No 2 the Beatles, No 3 the Stones – that was pretty special." You'd assume #3 was the Stones, but actually it was the Walker Brothers.

I may be very wrong here but I feel I recently saw a copy of this issue and that the poll that the Beach Boys won was Best Vocal Group. For that reason, it would make sense that the Walker Brothers would win over the Stones. There was another category of Best Band which had The Beatles coming in first over The Beach Boys at second.

[Gertie J.]

yeah you are very wrong.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Yeah, you're right. Beach Boys won Best World Vocal Band while The Beatles won Best UK Vocal Band.

[Gertie J.]

 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Whats the last great lyric Mike wrote? not slagging him off, just curious.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

"Pacific Ocean Blues" ? 

Good song but "the cold hearted slaughter of otter" does not make for a good lyric.

[Wirestone]

I remember when this board was a lot less divided and more centered and in agreement. Last few years we are divided because we have a lot of myth seekers and fantasists who just don't treat the group members as real people. What they want isn't reality and they are angry and won't accept this.

It certainly doesn't promote board harmony to call other members fantasists.

[MBE]

 >:

I remember when this board was a lot less divided and more centered and in agreement. Last few years we are divided because we have a lot of myth seekers and fantasists who just don't treat the group members as real people. What they want isn't reality and they are angry and won't accept this.

It certainly doesn't promote board harmony to call other members fantasists.

 

[oldsurferdude]

I still think Mike has a good thing going on tour. A small tour party, plenty of gigs, a slick well proven operation that still sells tickets with little or no stress. I can think of no reason why he would want to put a spanner in the works and ruin that, C50 aside.

I don't know. How about not showing his band mates the door and continuing with his "small party tour"

No one was fired. The tour ended.

On Mike's insistence. Which meant that Brian and Al and Dave couldn't tour as the Beach Boys anymore. Which meant that Mike and Bruce still could. I understand that technically it's not a firing. But as Brian said, it sure feels like it.

Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

You must not know the politics that go on at Brother Records, Inc.

We know. We just don't care.

The C50 tour was the right way to do things. Ending it was the wrong way. The name should be retired if the five guys aren't touring. And if Mike insists on using it for his group, his license should be ended. Given the repeated confusion that his dates are causing now, across the country, this only makes sense legally. Hopefully folks are working on making that a reality now.

And yes, I realize that if the license is taken from Mike, he wouldn't tour with the other guys and be angry. Fine. The world won't end if the Beach Boys name does.

Terrific post!

[Pretty Funky]

Mike has a poster on his wall framed and I think there is a close-up of it in the EH doco. Not sure what award, but it is BB, Beatles, Stones.

[Mendota Heights]

Whats the last great lyric Mike wrote? not slagging him off, just curious.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

"Pacific Ocean Blues" ? 

Good song but "the cold hearted slaughter of otter" does not make for a good lyric.

How about "the warmhearted slaughter of otter" then?

[Mendota Heights]

Darkness.

Darkness all around.

No music, no sound, not a single note in the blackness of space.

I float toward an incredible singularity. There it floats in the void, a giant floating bald head with little squinty eyes.

I understand now. I understand.

[Mr. Tiger]

With all due respect to Mr. Love, he is *not* the McCartney to Brian's Lennon (nor is he the Lennon to Brian's McCartney, for those of us who feel that McCartney was actually the primary musical force behind the Beatles). In terms of the songwriting, he was more of an Ira Gershwin or Hal David, which is still a great honor. It's too bad he can't see himself that way, and just sit back and relax. His place in history is assured, but it's quite ridiculous for him to expect to be venerated at anywhere near the same level as Brian Wilson. Ira Gershwin, Hal David and Tony Asher never expected equal treatment with their partners, so it's not clear why Mr. Love should, other than perhaps, as arguably the least musically literate member of the Beach Boys (having rarely played an instrument), he actually never fully comprehended just how enormously talented and unique Brian was in his prime, in relation to the greater pop landscape. If he truly believes that his contribution to the Beach Boys artistically was equal to Brian Wilson (as his Lennon McCartney analogy implies), I fear that he's never going to be satisfied with history's critical evaluation of the Beach Boys. I'm not trying to denigrate Mike. I actually feel sorry for him, because, despite all his talk of meditation and being "at peace" with his life, he seemingly can't just be at peace with his partnering role in one of THE great forces of pop music in the 20th century. Now that Mike's songwriting credits have been rightly restored, his name will not disappear from history, and in fact will be better remembered than a list of very talented but already forgotten artists to which I'm sure we all could all contribute. In addition to the important lyricists mentioned above, Mike could also perhaps take a few tips from Roger Daltrey, WHO, as it happens, is much more universally popular within the WHO fanbase, and it can't hurt (in terms of perception) that he seems to be OK with all the focus on Pete Townshend's talents, despite his own leading man role.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I still think Mike has a good thing going on tour. A small tour party, plenty of gigs, a slick well proven operation that still sells tickets with little or no stress. I can think of no reason why he would want to put a spanner in the works and ruin that, C50 aside.

I don't know. How about not showing his band mates the door and continuing with his "small party tour"

No one was fired. The tour ended.

On Mike's insistence. Which meant that Brian and Al and Dave couldn't tour as the Beach Boys anymore. Which meant that Mike and Bruce still could. I understand that technically it's not a firing. But as Brian said, it sure feels like it.

Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

You must not know the politics that go on at Brother Records, Inc.

No, but I do know that Mike continues to use the Beach Boys name for his tour, which is pretty f**king disrespectful to his cousin and former band-mates. Not to mention deliberately misleading to the public at large.

[Micha]

I understand that Joe Thomas is the scheming villain in this scenario, and the BAD tour this summer seems like a shot across the bow of the long-established BRI corporate structure. But if Mike is now ruing the day he went into the C50, only to see Brian and his evil enablers attempt to undermine his gravy train, perhaps he should have had a more magnanimous attitude after Carl's death and not made firing Al his first order of business. Perhaps he should have tried to run the band as, you know, a band, rather than an extended solo and ogling groupies project. Perhaps his first reaction to Brian releasing Smile as a solo project shouldn't have been suing his cousin over it.

"Evil"... "villains"... you might not want to realize it, but in real life relations there are no evil villains. The Mike "defenders" are not trying to reverse the blame, as you seem to sarcastically insinuate. They just try to have a more balanced view and see the good motives and faults of all participants. You mention several questionable things Mike has done, and I don't deny them. But didn't even Brian once remove Al from his tour too?

The other issue and this one pertains specifically to Love that many fans have a problem with is that he continually tries to paint the ending of the C50 as a mutual decision between all the parties throwing out explanations like "set start and end date" and "we're all getting back to doing what we love"

Hm. I was not aware of this continuality. Does he post that every week on facebook? I don't have facebook.

Thoughts and again a plea for those to try to be a little more understanding of all sides.

I think the thing people just don't understand is that the group broke up many many years ago. Yet to get a show with Brian as good as 2012 you would have to go back to 1970, or maybe a really good night in 1976. They gave us more than anything I imagined last year. Maybe it's just that I am more interested in the things they did in the sixties and seventies than the things they have done since. Maybe I just remember that Mike was always going back on tour and I knew this in June of last year. Actually it was public knowledge, just not made a big deal.

Let it go. They aren't a band, haven't been in decades. Even the last twenty years Carl was alive they weren't a group in any true sense of the word. Mike being the Beach Boys touring band in 2013 doesn't mean a hell of a lot. This being good or bad is not even an issue anymore, it was decided a long time ago and that's how it is.

Frankly the reunion would have meant less and the standard just would not have held up. They left it at a creative peak we didn't even dream of, they did good. Only problem is (and has been for forty years) is that they played their problems out in the press where it only needed to be the 5 of them in a room discussing a group plan. It's made too complicated by those they make money for.

The LP was good, but Mike raised a good point if you just had The Beach Boys doing all the writing and producing than you would have something even better. Still I only want a Beach Boys album or tour if they all want it equally. Take any of them out and it just is not going to be what we got last year.

This kind of summarizes my own point of view.

And although I refuse to villainize Mike I still wish he'd given up the M&B show for good and stuck with the C50 configuration. Just as I wish Brian would give Mike a chance to write a few songs just the two of them.

[drbeachboy]

I still think Mike has a good thing going on tour. A small tour party, plenty of gigs, a slick well proven operation that still sells tickets with little or no stress. I can think of no reason why he would want to put a spanner in the works and ruin that, C50 aside.

I don't know. How about not showing his band mates the door and continuing with his "small party tour"

No one was fired. The tour ended.

On Mike's insistence. Which meant that Brian and Al and Dave couldn't tour as the Beach Boys anymore. Which meant that Mike and Bruce still could. I understand that technically it's not a firing. But as Brian said, it sure feels like it.

Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

You must not know the politics that go on at Brother Records, Inc.

No, but I do know that Mike continues to use the Beach Boys name for his tour, which is pretty f**king disrespectful to his cousin and former band-mates. Not to mention deliberately misleading to the public at large.

How is it disrepectful when all BRI members are in agreement for Mike to use the name. Now, it may be misleading, but many who go to the shows either don't know the difference, or know the back story (see first sentence). Fantasists, indeed!

[Andrew G. Doe]

One more time, for those who can't - or more likely, don't want to - understand.

Mike & Bruce tour - but cannot record - as The Beach Boys because the voting members of Brother Records Incorporated decided to award them the license, on a 3-1 majority back in 1999 or so. I don't know if the license is up for renewal annually, every few years or is in perpetuity, but that no-one has seen fit to try to change or in any way challenge that situation in some fourteen years tells me that the majority are happy with the status quo which, let us not forget, provides an income to all voting members well into six figures (and if you're not Mike, for doing precisely nothing).

The voting members of BRI are:

Brian Wilson
Mike Love
Alan Jardine
the estate of Carl Wilson.

Three of those four are fine with things as they stand, and I think we can hazard a guess at which three.

[Cam Mott]

Mike has made it plain it is not all about money and his ego, if you want to believe it is anyway then you will. As I said some got their way and still wanted and got more and we are supposed to bust Mike's chops because he gave more. Let's all take a deep breath.

And how has he made that plain? Precisely, please.

An you know perfectly well that no one is busting Mike's chops because he "gave more." He's criticized because he blew up a one-of-a-kind reunion of a legendary group.

Precisely, Mike has made it plain he wants to work one on one with his cousin.  Didn't blow up the reunion, reunion happened with overtime.

Don't remember saying Mike was criticized because he gave more. Mike is criticized in spite of giving more for not giving even more.  If you criticize Mike for not giving enough by stuffing his way for sake of continuing, shouldn't you also criticize Brian and Al for not giving enough and stuffing their way to keep it going? It's like everything Mike is accused of doing happens in a vacuum and the rest of the group is held to a different standard of accountability.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I remember when this board was a lot less divided and more centered and in agreement. Last few years we are divided because we have a lot of myth seekers and fantasists who just don't treat the group members as real people. What they want isn't reality and they are angry and won't accept this.

It certainly doesn't promote board harmony to call other members fantasists.

Oh, I'm a fantasist. I have this fantasy that one day, people will consider each members contributions without an immediate gut reaction (good or bad) coloring their decisions... that one day, people will all post here in acceptable English without the need to derail any given thread... that one day, people will take the trouble to actually read articles and interviews and not base their response on the strapline... and that certain posters will  realise they're thought of as retards because they keep posting like one. And then we'll have world peace. Maybe even candy bars.

That's my fantasy.  

[oldsurferdude]

With all due respect to Mr. Love, he is *not* the McCartney to Brian's Lennon (nor is he the Lennon to Brian's McCartney, for those of us who feel that McCartney was actually the primary musical force behind the Beatles). In terms of the songwriting, he was more of an Ira Gershwin or Hal David, which is still a great honor. It's too bad he can't see himself that way, and just sit back and relax. His place in history is assured, but it's quite ridiculous for him to expect to be venerated at anywhere near the same level as Brian Wilson. Ira Gershwin, Hal David and Tony Asher never expected equal treatment with their partners, so it's not clear why Mr. Love should, other than perhaps, as arguably the least musically literate member of the Beach Boys (having rarely played an instrument), he actually never fully comprehended just how enormously talented and unique Brian was in his prime, in relation to the greater pop landscape. If he truly believes that his contribution to the Beach Boys artistically was equal to Brian Wilson (as his Lennon McCartney analogy implies), I fear that he's never going to be satisfied with history's critical evaluation of the Beach Boys. I'm not trying to denigrate Mike. I actually feel sorry for him, because, despite all his talk of meditation and being "at peace" with his life, he seemingly can't just be at peace with his partnering role in one of THE great forces of pop music in the 20th century. Now that Mike's songwriting credits have been rightly restored, his name will not disappear from history, and in fact will be better remembered than a list of very talented but already forgotten artists to which I'm sure we all could all contribute. In addition to the important lyricists mentioned above, Mike could also perhaps take a few tips from Roger Daltrey, WHO, as it happens, is much more universally popular within the WHO fanbase, and it can't hurt (in terms of perception) that he seems to be OK with all the focus on Pete Townshend's talents, despite his own leading man role.

An excellent perspective on the subject that I know  several myKinistas won't be able to swallow.

[Jason]

I remember when this board was a lot less divided and more centered and in agreement. Last few years we are divided because we have a lot of myth seekers and fantasists who just don't treat the group members as real people. What they want isn't reality and they are angry and won't accept this.

It certainly doesn't promote board harmony to call other members fantasists.

Oh, I'm a fantasist. I have this fantasy that one day, people will consider each members contributions without an immediate gut reaction (good or bad) coloring their decisions... that one day, people will all post here in acceptable English without the need to derail any given thread... that one day, people will take the trouble to actually read articles and interviews and not base their response on the strapline... and that certain posters will  realise they're thought of as retards because they keep posting like one. And then we'll have world peace. Maybe even candy bars.

That's my fantasy.  

Yeah, you're living in a dream world.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I remember when this board was a lot less divided and more centered and in agreement. Last few years we are divided because we have a lot of myth seekers and fantasists who just don't treat the group members as real people. What they want isn't reality and they are angry and won't accept this.

It certainly doesn't promote board harmony to call other members fantasists.

Oh, I'm a fantasist. I have this fantasy that one day, people will consider each members contributions without an immediate gut reaction (good or bad) coloring their decisions... that one day, people will all post here in acceptable English without the need to derail any given thread... that one day, people will take the trouble to actually read articles and interviews and not base their response on the strapline... and that certain posters will  realise they're thought of as retards because they keep posting like one. And then we'll have world peace. Maybe even candy bars.

That's my fantasy.  

And free mental healthcare for Mike Love supporters.

(Just joking)

[Jason]

Nah, John Bull can keep the NHS.

[MBE]

AGD, Cam, Micha, Real Beach Boy etc. thank you for confirming some of us do have perspective to take a step back. The music I devote my career and free time to, biographical proven facts are cool too. Beyond that I have more things to worry about than ill thought out press releases from last fall.

No ill will really, but people who do decide to do this for a living, who are historians who value truth, don't like to work weeks for facts and then get some internet "expert" hiding under a fake name try to shout you down. It's worse when the ignorance of their words prove they didn't take the time to really ask anyone who would know beyond the world of fandom what the truth really is.

Debate is great, but answers and facts have been established on the reunion. A reunion which is over and stands the most respectable thing the group has done since not only the box set tour in 1993, but maybe Beacago in 1975. Twisted or false info continues to be spouted on this and other things and that's why the tone of smileysmile has changed.

If you love Brian Wilson and hate the Beach Boys on a real personal deep level, there are better places for you online. No ill will again, but the rest of us all would be happier if we could back to a board where facts and music, not fanboy wishes-or the evil of Mike Love, are discussed. Please forgive us non bitter or angry followers for speaking up and making the board hostile, how dare we? Seriously though, I used to love it here and still do at times. There's just been this nasty change in the air since the reunion was announced. It was great to get an influx of new interest, it sucked gaining all the disrespect and Leafian thinking.

[Jason]

AGD, Cam, Micha, Real Beach Boy etc. thank you for confirming some of us do have perspective to take a step back. The music I devote my career and free time to, biographical proven facts are cool too. Beyond that I have more things to worry about than ill thought out press releases from last fall.

No ill will really, but people who do decide to do this for a living, who are historians who value truth, don't like to work weeks for facts and then get some internet "expert" hiding under a fake name try to shout you down. It's worse when the ignorance of their words proving they didn't take the time to really ask anyone who would know beyond the world of fandom what the truth really is.

Debate is great, but answers and facts have been established on the reunion. A reunion which is over and stands the most respectable thing the group has done since not only the box set tour in 1993, but maybe Beacago in 1975. Twisted or false info continues to be spouted on this and other things and that's why the tone of smileysmile has changed.

If you love Brian Wilson and hate the Beach Boys on a real personal deep level, there are better places for you online. No ill will again, but the rest of us all would be happier if we could back to a board where facts and music, not fanboy wishes-or the evil of Mike Love, are discussed. Please forgive us non bitter or angry followers for speaking up and making the board hostile, how dare we? Seriously though, I used to love it here and still do at times. There's just been this nasty change in the air since the reunion was announced. It was great to get an influx of new interest, it sucked gaining all the disrespect and Leafian thinking.

+1