I found the tracklist for the live album!!!

[Nicko1234]

Mike's argument comes down to this:

"Nevermind touring with you guys, I am just going use the BBs name by myself again."

Which as Brian and Carl's estate have agreed to that for years is a pretty strong argument. 

[EgoHanger1966]

Mike's argument comes down to this:

"Nevermind touring with you guys, I am just going use the BBs name by myself again."

C'mon, you're better than that. You have to realize that Mike has his own band that relies on touring to make money - and his own son is in that band.

[bgas]

We don't know it's a solo record....

We've absolutely no reason to think it's anything else.

Brian said he wanted to make a rock n roll album "with the guys". Who's to say he's not doing work on that while the other guys do other stuff? They can always come in and do their parts whenever.

See all the interviews with Mike that keep getting linked here where he says the reunion was a fixed-time thing and they have no plans to work together again.

Of course he also said that he doesn't rule it out. But I think he would be there in a minute if Brian says he's gonna write with Mike. It seems that Mike only really was interested in new work if he gets to write with Brian again.

 Which is, of course, perfectly sensible. Why would Mike want the BBs to be singing a bunch of new songs that he has no hand in?  Has their history taught nothing?

[EgoHanger1966]

There was a set end-date to the tour and everyone involved knew this - at the very least if Brian didn't know the specifics, Melinda did. So, for there to have been major publications with Brian saying he was fired, wanted to continue with the Beach Boys but was not allowed, it just doesn't make sense - but it gave them headlines - and for a while "Brian Wilson fired" was trending on Yahoo and Twitter and whatever, I think that's exactly what they wanted.

There's a big piece of info that's missing from your theory, one that's been discussed in other C50 threads on this board...the tour was orig. set at 50 dates, and as things evolved in such a positive way more offers came through, they were accepted up to the number of approx. 70 dates...but the offers didn't end there...they had another 20 or so on the table, major dates, big venues, more TV, another LP...this was all on the table...and Brian, Al and Dave said lets keep going and Mike said no, he wanted to go back to his normal setup. So your statement that there was a "set end-date to the tour" isn't really true, it didn't have to end at 50 or 70 or whatever...it could have kept going as long as they ALL wanted it to...but they ALL did not want to continue. No publicity stunt...just the usual Beach Boys embarrassing ugliness returning after a nice break from it.

I understand this completely, but Mike and Bruce had other commitments, instead of it being they didn't "want to" continue the C50 line-up, couldn't it have been that they wanted to honor their other commitments? And yeah, Mike probably makes more money in his own band...and yes, he does continue to take additional tour dates with his band. But what made Brian/his people do the whole "I was fired from the band" thing?? It doesn't make sense to me that they had to air all that out publicly in the way that they did. It just doesn't seem like an organic fight - even if it all wasn't a stunt, I feel like there had to have been a little bit of that thought in the back of someone's  mind.

[Shady]

There was a set end-date to the tour and everyone involved knew this - at the very least if Brian didn't know the specifics, Melinda did. So, for there to have been major publications with Brian saying he was fired, wanted to continue with the Beach Boys but was not allowed, it just doesn't make sense - but it gave them headlines - and for a while "Brian Wilson fired" was trending on Yahoo and Twitter and whatever, I think that's exactly what they wanted.

There's a big piece of info that's missing from your theory, one that's been discussed in other C50 threads on this board...the tour was orig. set at 50 dates, and as things evolved in such a positive way more offers came through, they were accepted up to the number of approx. 70 dates...but the offers didn't end there...they had another 20 or so on the table, major dates, big venues, more TV, another LP...this was all on the table...and Brian, Al and Dave said lets keep going and Mike said no, he wanted to go back to his normal setup. So your statement that there was a "set end-date to the tour" isn't really true, it didn't have to end at 50 or 70 or whatever...it could have kept going as long as they ALL wanted it to...but they ALL did not want to continue. No publicity stunt...just the usual Beach Boys embarrassing ugliness returning after a nice break from it.

I understand this completely, but Mike and Bruce had other commitments, instead of it being they didn't "want to" continue the C50 line-up, couldn't it have been that they wanted to honor their other commitments? And yeah, Mike probably makes more money in his own band...and yes, he does continue to take additional tour dates with his band. But what made Brian/his people do the whole "I was fired from the band" thing?? It doesn't make sense to me that they had to air all that out publicly in the way that they did. It just doesn't seem like an organic fight - even if it all wasn't a stunt, I feel like there had to have been a little bit of that thought in the back of someone's  mind.

Those "Commitments" were made after the C50 tour began.

A huge reason people have an issue with Mike resuming his M&B configuration is how he went about it. Booking dates during the C50 tour, releasing a tasteless press release before the world tour even ended, his comments in The Rolling Stone article, now taking shots at Melinda in interviews. Is he still fasting?

[AndrewHickey]

Those "Commitments" were made after the C50 tour began.

A huge reason people have an issue with Mike resuming his M&B configuration is how he went about it. Booking dates during the C50 tour, releasing a tasteless press release before the world tour even ended, his comments in The Rolling Stone article, now taking shots at Melinda in interviews. Is he still fasting?

Booking dates during the tour -- so he and his band would actually have some work after the tour.
"releasing a tasteless press release before the world tour even ended" -- a press release that Brian's management asked for
"his comments in The Rolling Stone article" -- which were absolutely inoffensive
"now taking shots at Melinda in interviews" -- where for "Melinda" you can substitute "at least one person in the organisation who isn't Brian". And none of us have any idea whether those 'shots' are justified or not.

I'm no great admirer of Mike, and he's done many, many things I dislike in his time. But he's not actually done anything wrong here.

[Quzi]

If the "we were fired!" thing was a publicity stunt, it seems to have not worked very well. Nearly all of the momentum and interest gained during the 50th anniversary tour dropped off like a rock directly following that "feud" according to Google Trends. http://www.google.com.au/trends/explore#q=The%20Beach%20Boys

[Paulos]

Just noticed that from the track-list we have 17 songs that have never previously been released as live tracks:

Little Honda
Catch A Wave
Don't Back Down
The Little Girl I Once Knew
Wendy
Getcha Back
Then I Kissed Her
Isn't It Time
Why Do Fools Fall In Love
When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
Disney Girls (1957)
Pet Sounds
Add Some Music To Your Day
California Saga: California
All This Is That
That's Why God Made The Radio
Forever

[The Shift]

I have an idea folks!  If I could get another three of these made, connect 'em in pairs with big sticks and fasten some sort of gurney across 'em, I might be on to something!



Hey, Mike fired Brian?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Just noticed that from the track-list we have 17 songs that have never previously been released as live tracks:

Little Honda
Catch A Wave
Don't Back Down
The Little Girl I Once Knew
Wendy
Getcha Back
Then I Kissed Her
Isn't It Time
Why Do Fools Fall In Love
When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
Disney Girls (1957)
Pet Sounds
Add Some Music To Your Day
California Saga: California
All This Is That
That's Why God Made The Radio
Forever

I don't want to be negative or disagreeable, so I will be .... but after sleeping on it for a few days, I wish that "Pet Sounds" would've been left off in favor of another song. I already have it on Live At The Roxy and Pet Sounds Live. Will this version sound identical to those? No disrespect to David Marks BTW. "Pet Sounds" wasn't included for me/us who already have it twice; was it included for the casual fan who wants the hits? I can see myself clicking to Track #2 and starting with "Add Some Music To Your Day". Sorry for the downer post. I'm gonna go back to following the Tiger Woods controversy now. Controversy everywhere!

[Jay]

I would have opened the cd set with Our Prayer, and closed it with Summer's Gone.

[AndrewHickey]

I don't want to be negative or disagreeable, so I will be .... but after sleeping on it for a few days, I wish that "Pet Sounds" would've been left off in favor of another song. I already have it on Live At The Roxy and Pet Sounds Live. Will this version sound identical to those? No disrespect to David Marks BTW. "Pet Sounds" wasn't included for me/us who already have it twice; was it included for the casual fan who wants the hits? I can see myself clicking to Track #2 and starting with "Add Some Music To Your Day". Sorry for the downer post. I'm gonna go back to following the Tiger Woods controversy now. Controversy everywhere!

It won't sound identical -- while Nick played the part exactly as written, David used it as a basis for improvisation (though frankly I'd have preferred if he *had* played the part as written). There's also no sax on the versions from last year, so no sax solo, and the arrangement was much shorter, without the extended percussion duel section and so forth (though the little bit of the percussion duel that was included was played much better than on the Pet Sounds Live CD because it was Mike D'Amico and Nelson Bragg playing rather than Jim Hines and Andy Paley).

[AndrewHickey]

I would have opened the cd set with Our Prayer, and closed it with Summer's Gone.

But the idea is to represent the shows as performed, and they never opened with Our Prayer. As for Summer's Gone, they only performed it twice, and both times Brian messed up the lead vocals.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

If the "we were fired!" thing was a publicity stunt, it seems to have not worked very well. Nearly all of the momentum and interest gained during the 50th anniversary tour dropped off like a rock directly following that "feud" according to Google Trends. http://www.google.com.au/trends/explore#q=The%20Beach%20Boys

Interest has declined because the C50 is over and the PR blitz is done.  Yeah, I highly doubt it was a publicity stunt.

[the professor]

Pets sounds is a favorite of the professor of course. In terms of the Brian Wilson vs The Beach Boys? I prefer the Magnificent Seven and all epic myths that bring an all star cast of Heroes together.

[Pretty Funky]

I would have opened the cd set with Our Prayer, and closed it with Summer's Gone.

But the idea is to represent the shows as performed, and they never opened with Our Prayer. As for Summer's Gone, they only performed it twice, and both times Brian messed up the lead vocals.

100%

And my only comment on the yet another thread turned into a Mike and Bruce vs the C50 lineup. Bruce said years ago on a message board they take bookings upto 18months out for the M&B shows. Of course they were going to plan last year for 2013.

[Generation42]

I would have opened the cd set with Our Prayer, and closed it with Summer's Gone.

I think there's every chance that would have been lovely.  That said, "Do it Again" did open every show and deserves its place at the start, methinks.

Sure would have loved to have had "Summer's Gone" on there, though.  Maybe we'll get a nice live version of the song as a bonus track / at another time?

[HeyJude]

I would have opened the cd set with Our Prayer, and closed it with Summer's Gone.

I think there's every chance that would have been lovely.  That said, "Do it Again" did open every show and deserves its place at the start, methinks.

Sure would have loved to have had "Summer's Gone" on there, though.  Maybe we'll get a nice live version of the song as a bonus track / at another time?

That would be nice, but given most of these live release, they seem adverse for a variety of reasons, some more in their control than others, to *not* give us a complete, all-inclusive concert from beginning to end, either in video or audio form.

[Cam Mott]

Mike's argument comes down to this:

"Nevermind touring with you guys, I am just going use the BBs name by myself again."

Which as Brian and Carl's estate have agreed to that for years is a pretty strong argument. 

And pays for the priviledge. Also didn't Celebration 50 have a defined end and then that was extended to another defined end and then it was agreed that the end would be extended a second time and offers were left on the table.

[hypehat]

You know, inconsequential offers that any right thinking man would have passed up, like two nights at Madison Square Garden. It's nothing, really.

[HeyJude]

Mike's argument comes down to this:

"Nevermind touring with you guys, I am just going use the BBs name by myself again."

Which as Brian and Carl's estate have agreed to that for years is a pretty strong argument. 

The difference in the past is that Brian had no interest in doing anything with the Beach Boys. So in like 1998, or even 2004, it was easy to agree to it. Extra money for him.

The difference in 2012 was that, miraculously, Brian wanted to not only be a Beach Boy again, but to record and do TV appearances and tour more with the full band,.

Again, if Mike won't work with Brian and the rest of the band, I would imagine Brian and Carl's estate (and probably even Al at this point) presently probably would rather have Mike going out generating income as opposed to *nothing*, because Brian probably has no interest in the legal and corporate machinations nor the energy of attempting "taking" the license from Mike and going out with Al and David as "The Beach Boys."

[hypehat]

Mike has always had the right intention - solidifying the legacy - but the man doesn't have a fucking clue. You know what would make The Beach Boys a massive arena act, like they used to be? Playing massive arenas when people ask you to. It's not rocket science.

[HeyJude]

And pays for the priviledge. Also didn't Celebration 50 have a defined end and then that was extended to another defined end and then it was agreed that the end would be extended a second time and offers were left on the table.

Jon Stebbins really put it succinctly a bit back:

"So your statement that there was a "set end-date to the tour" isn't really true, it didn't have to end at 50 or 70 or whatever...it could have kept going as long as they ALL wanted it to...but they ALL did not want to continue. No publicity stunt...just the usual Beach Boys embarrassing ugliness returning after a nice break from it."

The question being theoretically proposed perhaps should be changed a bit to "Why didn't Mike further extend the reunion?" Because then, it's a bit harder to argue that the tour had a "defined" end. Mike agreed to extensions, so why not more? Then this ridiculous "the tour ended because it ended" nonsense can't be held up as an argument. Then at least we could get closer to the actual reasons, involving finances, logistics, egos, etc.

As far as I know, there was nothing in the reunion tour agreement stating that under no circumstances could more than 74 shows be booked, or that the reunion could not under any circumstances be extended in 2013, or that they could not record another album.

[HeyJude]

Mike has always had the right intention - solidifying the legacy - but the man doesn't have a fucking clue. You know what would make The Beach Boys a massive arena act, like they used to be? Playing massive arenas when people ask you to. It's not rocket science.

I though it was also interesting that Mike mentioned in an interview near the end of the tour that the idea was to build demand, and he of course made the infamous comparison to the Eagles and having to sell cheap tickets to fill seats. I don't know if he realized the irony that he (and Carl and Al when they were in the band) diluted the Beach Boys touring "brand" non-stop by doing 100+ shows per year, every year, for decade after decade. If no Beach Boys at all had toured in 5 or 10 years, then the 50th reunion tour would have been playing more arenas and stadiums probably. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually glad I got to see the tour in smaller, outdoor theater as opposed to a basketball arena.

[Cam Mott]

And pays for the priviledge. Also didn't Celebration 50 have a defined end and then that was extended to another defined end and then it was agreed that the end would be extended a second time and offers were left on the table.

Jon Stebbins really put it succinctly a bit back:

"So your statement that there was a "set end-date to the tour" isn't really true, it didn't have to end at 50 or 70 or whatever...it could have kept going as long as they ALL wanted it to...but they ALL did not want to continue. No publicity stunt...just the usual Beach Boys embarrassing ugliness returning after a nice break from it."

The question being theoretically proposed perhaps should be changed a bit to "Why didn't Mike further extend the reunion?" Because then, it's a bit harder to argue that the tour had a "defined" end. Mike agreed to extensions, so why not more? Then this ridiculous "the tour ended because it ended" nonsense can't be held up as an argument. Then at least we could get closer to the actual reasons, involving finances, logistics, egos, etc.

As far as I know, there was nothing in the reunion tour agreement stating that under no circumstances could more than 74 shows be booked, or that the reunion could not under any circumstances be extended in 2013, or that they could not record another album.

I forgot a "not", it was not agreed to extend the defined end a second time. Maybe it is semantics but it seems to me there were two defined ends. I'm pretty sure Mike said there was an agreed to set of dates and then agreed to set of extra dates. That is a set end date to the tour in my book.

Mike has clearly stated his reasons for not agreeing to extend the defined end a second time.