TWGMTR Follow-up

[drbeachboy]

And, a simple look back on this board would bear this out. When Brian released his Gershwin album, there was a lukewarm response. Yeah, it was nice, but it also elicited a ho-hum, Beach Boys-by-number kind of feel. The Disney album was almost ignored after a couple of weeks. I can't remember the last time it was discussed. These were NEW BRIAN WILSON RELEASES for crissakes. Then, That's Why God Made The Radio came out and things exploded. People were ecstatic; the album was dissected for months. I'm just saying.

The Professor has guts, and I applaud him for his honesty. He is saying what a lot of people are feeling but don't want to say because it comes across as anti-Brian, which it isn't exactly - it's pro-Beach Boys. Hey, if that's what what you really want, if that's what you really feel...

The difference is that those first two albums were cover versions, rather than new songs. For me, at least, I'm not hugely interested in hearing Brian do perfectly competent versions of It Ain't Necessarily So or The Bare Necessities. I'm very, very interested in hearing new Brian Wilson songs, whether performed by the Beach Boys or by Brian as a solo artist. I didn't even bother picking up the Disney album on its release, and waited for someone to get it me for Xmas. A new studio album of previously-unreleased Brian compositions, though, is something I'll pre-order the second it becomes possible.

A new studio album of previously-unreleased Brian compositions isn't exactly a slam dunk in Brian's solo career. I Just Wasn't Made For These Times (re-recordings), Live At The Roxy, Pet Sounds Live, Imagination (1/3 is old material), BWPS (re-recordings of SMiLE), What I Really Want For Christmas (only 2 original tunes), Getting In Over My Head (Sweet Insanity material), Gershwin & Disney (covers), etc. TLOS is an exception.

I guess we'll see. An album of NEW Brian songs would be a surprise based on past history. Some of the songs on TWGMTR date from sessions with Joe Thomas from years ago; we tend to gloss over that fact. I think the best scenario would be for Brian to produce the album with Don Was, and then call in Mike, Al, Bruce, David, and Jeff to lay down the vocals. That would please everybody. Even you. Right?

If I have never heard it, then it is new to me. I never heard any of the TWGMTR music from 99, so it being old made no difference to me.

[Sound of Free]

Not disinterested, but I will say that given the option, I'd rather have a new Beach Boys than a new Brian solo album. Just having different lead singers, not to mention the background vocals make this a very easy choice.

I would tend to agree but if it were a solo album it would be a massive plus if Al were called in to contribute some guest lead vocals.

I'd want Al to sing lead on some tracks and background vocals on ALL tracks.

[The Shift]

I guess we'll see. An album of NEW Brian songs would be a surprise based on past history. Some of the songs on TWGMTR date from sessions with Joe Thomas from years ago; we tend to gloss over that fact. I think the best scenario would be for Brian to produce the album with Don Was, and then call in Mike, Al, Bruce, David, and Jeff to lay down the vocals. That would please everybody. Even you. Right?

Well said.

[zachrwolfe]

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[The Shift]

Apologize if this has already been posted here, but I just payed Brian's site a visit to look for something unrelated to this thread, and it says on the front page "Brian Wilson producing Don Was today at Ocean Way Recording in Hollywood CA": http://instagram.com/p/YD0hqNASx_/
So in fact, he is not being produced by Don Was, he is producing Don Was. (Or perhaps they are both producing each other. This is my hope ) I haven't heard any of Don's records and not terribly interested in beginning to listen to them, but he does have my respect for his praise of Brian's work. This is still somewhat interesting, since I don't think I've heard of Brian producing any other artists but himself and the BBoys for a long time.
Though, there is definitely still something BBs/Brian being worked on as well, since Brian was "laying down some tracks" earlier. Maybe it's some sort of collaboration record between both of them?

May all depend on the interpretation of the word "producing" … might have been nothing more than Was dropping by the studio and Brian saying "hey Don, show me that riff you played 20 years ago…".

Or it might be an application of artistic licence – ie, whoever wrote it using the word "producing" as an option for "bumping in to…", "dropping in on…", being visited by…".

I think we should hold-off read anything into it until something comes out of it.

[zachrwolfe]

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[hypehat]

Brian could be using Don as a guitarist on whatever he's working on? Seems the most likely explanation.

[EgoHanger1966]

Scott Bennett posted on FB he played some keys and vibes for "Mr. Wilson" in the studio yesterday....

[the professor]

A new studio album of previously-unreleased Brian compositions isn't exactly a slam dunk in Brian's solo career. I Just Wasn't Made For These Times (re-recordings), Live At The Roxy, Pet Sounds Live, Imagination (1/3 is old material), BWPS (re-recordings of SMiLE), What I Really Want For Christmas (only 2 original tunes), Getting In Over My Head (Sweet Insanity material), Gershwin & Disney (covers), etc. TLOS is an exception.

I guess we'll see. An album of NEW Brian songs would be a surprise based on past history. Some of the songs on TWGMTR date from sessions with Joe Thomas from years ago; we tend to gloss over that fact. I think the best scenario would be for Brian to produce the album with Don Was, and then call in Mike, Al, Bruce, David, and Jeff to lay down the vocals. That would please everybody. Even you. Right?

But the songs on Imagination and Getting In Over My Head were previously (legally) unreleased, as were the songs from That's Why God Made The Radio. I don't care if they're new so much as I care that they're Brian songs that haven't been on an album before.

And yes, I'd be pleased to hear it whether it has Beach Boys vocals or Brian solo vocals on it. In fact my ideal album would be Jardine Sings Wilson. I suspect it wouldn't please the professor, though, because he's made it very clear that he wants a fully collaborative album, not the Beach Boys as Brian's hired vocalists.

Personally, I'd slightly prefer a Brian album to a Beach Boys one, because a Brian album seems less likely to have stuff like Beaches In Mind or Spring Vacation on, but I'll take what I can get.

I am with you Andrew, in spirit. We know each other's aesthetics well. I have to say that despite their perceived banality, Spring Vacation and BIM are enduring LA rockers; those are the ones I turn up in the car as I am cruising the scene, either driving over the BB /Dave's house or on PCH or anywhere in the mythologized landscape of LA.  BIM needs to be re-produced, however, as one can barely hear Dave's guitar on the fills. In fact Dave's "Anytime, Anywhere USA" song from his solo album is a better song and much more rockin'. It should have been on the BB album as the retro-rocker.

To hear BW solo songs would reach the heart no doubt and bring some emotional pleasure, in the Romantic sense of pleasure (Wordsworth,Shelley), but to hear a BB collaborative album (even to the extent of Pet Sounds collaboration) is my only hope and dream. I believe they have it in them to be, as Mike said (though his credibility is shot) a whole greater than the sum of its parts.  "Radio," in toto, repays study. Another BB album would as well. That is the aesthetic and emotional telos, the fulfillment of the mythic archetype of "puttin the band back together" the crown and glory of redemption, the ascendancy to, in Dante's phrase "primal love" from the Gates of Hell.

[c-man]

Brian could be using Don as a guitarist on whatever he's working on? Seems the most likely explanation.

Well, maybe as bassist, since that's Don's main instrument...but the fact that Jim Keltner is playing drums makes it all to likely that Was is co-producing, since Keltner is Was' studio drummer of choice (reference the "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" soundtrack and the late '95 sessions for "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery"...both times Was co-produced and Keltner played the drums, and those are the only times I'm aware of where Keltner played a Brian session...although he IS on "Kokomo" and "Somewhere Near Japan").

[guitarfool2002]

Let me just say either Don Was and Brian are co-producing something or the photo caption is a bit off...because Don Was has been known almost exclusively as a producer for the past 25 years or so, and the only time he did anything that could be considered a successful project as a featured artist was when he and his brother had a one-off novelty MTV hit with the song "Walk The Dinosaur" as the studio group "Was (Not Was)"...featuring those same studio pros like Sir Harry Bowens and Sweet Pea Atkinson who backed Brian when Was produced the I Just Wasn't Made...film.

Meaning...I don't think there are folks clamoring for a Was (Not Was) reunion album anytime soon, unless Don may be doing something like T-Bone Burnett or Pete Anderson and doing a solo project for kicks.

And whatever anyone wants to spin about the mid-90's output from Brian, I always give HUGE credit to Don Was for doing what he did, and getting Brian and his music back in the fold. Remember too that Was had been one of the catalysts behind working on some kind of a Smile compilation which had been announced for a mid-90's release only to fall into oblivion, and Was had also been at the helm when Brian, Mike, and Carl seriously began working together again to get new material up and running.

Maybe it's hard for those who were too young or simply not fans at the time to realize how big of a deal it was around 1994-96 to pick up magazines like Mix or Pulse or any others and read articles describing Brian, Don Was, Carl, etc. working on "new" material and "new" projects in the studio, with Mike no less...this was so positive and so hopeful it can't be explained in terms of 2013, especially since there were really no substantial internet fan outlets to spread and celebrate this news as there soon would be. And the thought of these guys actually touring together - or Brian touring as a solo act - was all but a pipe dream. How times have changed...to a point.

So seeing Don Was and Brian working in the studio in 2013 may carry more weight with me, for one, because I thought he did great work just getting Brian and the others working again and cutting tracks in the 90's. If Brian is in fact on some forthcoming Don Was solo project, I'm in. 

But I hope someone soon clarifies the photo.

[c-man]

Clarification on a couple of things, guitarfool...Don Was and David Was are not really brothers, they use "Was" just as their "stage name".  Also, Don Was wasn't part of the early '95 Brian-Carl-Mike project that I believe you're referencing here...he had been working a little here and there with Brian since late '91 or so ("Proud Mary" for instance), but the early '95 Brian-Carl-Mike recording sessions (for the Baywatch Nights submission "Dancin' The Night Away" and possibly something called "Grace Of My Heart", intended for the movie of the same name) involved just the three BBs, Andy Paley, his brother Jonathan Paley, sax player Michael Andreas, and Linett as engineer, and these sessions were held at Your Place Or Mine, Linett's studio.  Now, it's possible Was was the catalyst for bringing Brian and Carl back together, since Carl appears in the Was-directed BW docu "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", but Was was not present in the studio with them for those sessions (at least there was no mention of him having been there in all the press reports of the time).  Was WAS with them, co-producing with Brian and Andy, when Brian, Carl, Mike, Al, Bruce, and Matt got together at Ocean Way and added vocals to the Was-coproduced versions of Brian and Andy's songs "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery" later that same year.

One good thing about Brian possibly co-produing with Was again:  at least there is no specific Don Was "sound" that might intrude upon Brian's vision, unlike with some of Brian's past coproducers (Jeff Lynne and Joe Thomas, for instance).  

[guitarfool2002]

Clarification on a couple of things, guitarfool...Don Was and David Was are not really brothers, they use "Was" just as their "stage name".  Also, Don Was wasn't part of the early '95 Brian-Carl-Mike project that I believe you're referencing here...he had been working a little here and there with Brian since late '91 or so ("Proud Mary" for instance), but the early '95 Brian-Carl-Mike recording sessions (for the Baywatch Nights submission "Dancin' The Night Away" and possibly something called "Grace Of My Heart", intended for the movie of the same name) involved just the three BBs, Andy Paley, his brother Jonathan Paley, sax player Michael Andreas, and Linett as engineer, and these sessions were held at Your Place Or Mine, Linett's studio.  Now, it's possible Was was the catalyst for bringing Brian and Carl back together, since Carl appears in the Was-directed BW docu "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", but Was was not present in the studio with them for those sessions (at least there was no mention of him having been there in all the press reports of the time).  Was WAS with them, co-producing with Brian and Andy, when Brian, Carl, Mike, Al, Bruce, and Matt got together at Ocean Way and added vocals to the Was-coproduced versions of Brian and Andy's songs "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery" later that same year.

One good thing about Brian possibly co-produing with Was again:  at least there is no specific Don Was "sound" that might intrude upon Brian's vision, unlike with some of Brian's past coproducers (Jeff Lynne and Joe Thomas, for instance).  

I should have used a smiley face about the Was brothers - it was tongue-in-cheek as I would with a reference to Jack and Meg White as siblings...

The clarification of Don Was' involvement suggests a different scenario in a way than was described by Brian and in Mix magazine (March 1996 issue). I could post scans of the article itself, but it suggests Don Was had generally been more involved overall than your post suggests. In fact, for that specific Mix article the author "Bonzai" was invited by Was to photograph the new BB's sessions at Ocean Way, and one photo is of Paley, Was, Rik Pekkonen, Brian, and session players in the studio. It isn't specific on which of their supposed "38 new songs" (according to Brian) they were doing. And throughout the interview and article it seems to suggest Don Was as a driving force in the studio, with Brian calling him one of his best friends.

On the surface it read like you may be downplaying Don Was' involvement, at least as reported/suggest in Mix. Again, I'd be happy to repost the article for reference, if I haven't done so on this board already.

There is also another piece - perhaps in Pulse - where Was himself talks about these activities, if I can find that it could add to the dialogue a bit more.

[c-man]

I have the Mix article you're referring to, so no need to post unless for the benefit of others.  Basically, here's the situation as I've always understood it...Don more-or-less "invited" himself to work with Brian, when Brian was already deep into a project with Andy.  As one well-known fan put it to me at the time, "Don Was is into collecting veteran pop stars like some people collect baseball cards".  No disrespect to Don Was, 'cause I like the work he's done with the Stones, Bonnie Raitt, Ringo, etc., but Brian and Andy were working on what they assumed were "masters", while you'll notice in interviews from the time, Don refers to their work as "demos".  The Was-produced "master" backing track to "Soul Searchin'" was deemed "unreleasable" by Carl, which is why those sessions from late '95 ended when they did.  The "Soul Searchin'" that's made the rounds on bootlegs utilizes the original Wilson/Paley "demo" with the BW/AP/DW-produced Beach Boys vocals "flown in".  Nothing against Don, like I said, and I'm hoping whatever he and Brian are currently working on turns out to be great, but the above sceanario is how I understood it to be in the '90s...which is why not much aside from the soundtrack ever came from Brian's work with him at the time.

[guitarfool2002]

I have the Mix article you're referring to, so no need to post unless for the benefit of others.  Basically, here's the situation as I've always understood it...Don more-or-less "invited" himself to work with Brian, when Brian was already deep into a project with Andy.  As one well-known fan put it to me at the time, "Don Was is into collecting veteran pop stars like some people collect baseball cards".  No disrespect to Don Was, 'cause I like the work he's done with the Stones, Bonnie Raitt, Ringo, etc., but Brian and Andy were working on what they assumed were "masters", while you'll notice in interviews from the time, Don refers to their work as "demos".  The Was-produced "master" backing track to "Soul Searchin'" was deemed "unreleasable" by Carl, which is why those sessions from late '95 ended when they did.  The "Soul Searchin'" that's made the rounds on bootlegs utilizes the original Wilson/Paley "demo" with the BW/AP/DW-produced Beach Boys vocals "flown in".  Nothing against Don, like I said, and I'm hoping whatever he and Brian are currently working on turns out to be great, but the above sceanario is how I understood it to be in the '90s...which is why not much aside from the soundtrack ever came from Brian's work with him at the time.

I'm posting the Don Was-relevant parts of two articles for those who have not seen them: Mix 3/96 and the Was sidebar in Pulse 11/95.

Perhaps they were caught up in the heat of the moment and the excitement, perhaps they're over-stating things, but my impressions of that scene came mostly from reading these articles when they were new. And these selections/excerpts do give a slightly different take on what was happening at that time than what Paley suggests.

I'm editorializing here...but Paley seems to be spreading a little sour grapes onto the story, which would be natural, but he has and had an agenda just as everyone does. And he has some cause to be bitter about certain things too, which might come out in his comments every now and then.

For those who are not familiar with these articles, remember this was published as all this stuff was actually happening and being reported. Little things like Brian saying "38 new songs" and Don Was saying "about 40" new songs are part of the history now which can be fact-checked, but read into these quotes, note references to Don Was recording "live" as they did back in the day (obviously instrumental tracks...), Brian describing Don Was getting the musicians together as Paley and Brian finished the writing of a song, Don Was approaching the Beach Boys to record with Brian, Don Was working with Mike and Brian on songwriting...judge for yourself, albeit through the lens of time and contrasted with a former collaborator of Brian's who may have something of an axe to grind.

Mix 3/96:



Pulse 11/95:

[Nicko1234]

This is all fascinating stuff (would have been good to read the entire articles if I'm being picky) and the last comment about Baywatch Nights is classic.

That whole period is a really interesting time to look back on and although things didn't work out with Don Was, I think he was right that the recordings that Brian and Andy Paley did together do sound like (albeit good) demos.

[Jim V.]

I suppose it's unlikely, but couldn't the return of Don Was mean that maybe he has a backlog of Brian Wilson material just as Joe Thomas did. And just as the Joe Thomas material was, it was/is intended for The Beach Boys. Ya know, stuff like "You're Still a Mystery" and "Dancing the Night Away"? Maybe we'll get a new Beach Boys album via this material? It's possible.

[hypehat]

Interesting, but for the fact that Brian never, ever mentioned writing with Was in the past. Either they're dusting off Paley material (kind of sh*t for Paley, tbh) or they're working on new sh*t and Brian is getting nostalgic for the mid 90's, as are we all.

[guitarfool2002]

I suppose it's unlikely, but couldn't the return of Don Was mean that maybe he has a backlog of Brian Wilson material just as Joe Thomas did. And just as the Joe Thomas material was, it was/is intended for The Beach Boys. Ya know, stuff like "You're Still a Mystery" and "Dancing the Night Away"? Maybe we'll get a new Beach Boys album via this material? It's possible.

That could very well be! If you read into the article(s) from 95-96, it suggests and specifically mentions "Beach Boys" songs, right? Plus, the ballpark figure was around 40 songs written, and of those Brian said when interviewed at that time about 20 had demos. Someone could do the process of elimination and deduct which ones have already come out in some way...what's left could indeed be a backlog of potential songs for any future project, Brian or Beach Boys. If Was had his studio players cutting certain tracks as they were being written/finished as described in Mix, who knows, they may try to resurrect some of those better songs.

Or not...and there lies the mystery of Don Was in the studio with Brian in 2013.  

[guitarfool2002]

Interesting, but for the fact that Brian never, ever mentioned writing with Was in the past. Either they're dusting off Paley material (kind of sh*t for Paley, tbh) or they're working on new sh*t and Brian is getting nostalgic for the mid 90's, as are we all.

He wouldn't have mentioned writing with Was because Was acted as producer rather than saying anywhere that he was actually co-writing the songs, a role which would still make him more intimately familiar with the songs and what went into them in the studio, or any decisions musical or otherwise that were or could be made to finish them. Again, if we take what's in that Mix article, Was had been taking what Paley and Brian had been writing (and what apparently Brian and Mike had been writing, excepting 'Baywatch Nights'), and bringing it to life in the studio with his session guys in perhaps a way Brian and Paley could not do with just the two of them building up demos track by track.

[hypehat]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I doubt Was has 80 hours of Brian Wilson demos on a hard drive, like Joe Thomas does.

[guitarfool2002]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I doubt Was has 80 hours of Brian Wilson demos on a hard drive, like Joe Thomas does.

He would definitely know those multitrack reels, though. Whoever has them now.

And...Was and Todd Rundgren may still be sitting on an archive of 36-odd hours of Smile which according to the one article they were trying to persuade Brian into releasing as an interactive user-controlled CD-ROM during this same era. Eerily reminiscent of "Project Smile", I'd say. 

[hypehat]

Knowing Todd, he'd probably have finished Smile by now. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

If Don Was was producing "Still a Mystery.." way back when, and they are gonna put it on MIC, only makes sense to bring Don in to finish it off.  Don did the same thing, finishing old tracks with Mick for some of the Stones recent re-releases (Some Girls).

[c-man]

If Don Was was producing "Still a Mystery.." way back when, and they are gonna put it on MIC, only makes sense to bring Don in to finish it off.  Don did the same thing, finishing old tracks with Mick for some of the Stones recent re-releases (Some Girls).

But, that last thing you mention DIDN'T really make sense, since Don Was was not around for the original Some Girls (or Exile On Main Street) sessions!  Still, I kinda like those lately-finished Stones tracks, even if Mick's lyrical perspective is much more mature now than in the '70s, which kinda kills the authenticity.  But, one could look at it the way we look at the new melodies and lyrics on BWPS, and enjoy it for what it is.