After 50+ years, what's the final verdict on Mike Love?

[Jason]

That's like saying that Enrico Caruso or Frank Sinatra isn't an artist. Seriously. Beach Boys fans REALLY need to listen to more music.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Song interpretation is a tough one and not many people have been all that great at it.... There are reasons why guys like Sinatra and Elvis survived and thrived past the post Brill Building "EVERYONE HAS TO WRITE THEIR OWN SONG OR THEY ARE FRAUDS" era.....

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

 

[SMiLE Brian]

Early promise burned away by the endless summer.

[Myk Luhv]

You know how Eminem is a good rapper but puts on his stupid jokey voice for songs like "Smack That" while he sometimes raps unaffectedly (as on "Drug Ballad")? It doesn't necessary take away from his talent as a rapper but so much of the former makes you forget about the latter. That's how I feel about Mike's vocal abilities: If he were less pointedly nasal (think: "A Casual Look" as the apotheosis) and more like his voice on the songs I mentioned before, I think it would be an improvement, even if he's still a good vocalist generally speaking.

[MBE]

If you think performers aren't artists in their own right, you're seriously deluded. That's like saying someone like Mick Jagger or Jim Morrison or Elvis Presley isn't an artist. Total bullsh*t.

Right on!

[Cam Mott]

If you think performers aren't artists in their own right, you're seriously deluded. That's like saying someone like Mick Jagger or Jim Morrison or Elvis Presley isn't an artist. Total bullsh*t.

Right on!

Agreed. I'm not sure if this comes a prejudice against Mike [and some of the other Boys] or an over prejudice for Brian.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Was about to go asleep but this deserves some thought.

I have heard of but not heard a recording of one of the shows made back in '71, when Mike was temporarily institutionalized after the Wilson blood got the better of him, as he later put it, and Al ended up taking most of the leads.  I understand that though it's a crude recording, what's there is enough to establish that Al could not really reproduce the signature vocal tone of Mike's that carried the band to the top - that nasal thing just on the knife edge of whiny but not whiny.

Um...  The shows were in early 1970 and it was Brian or Carl taking Mike's leads. But yes, the tape is seriously bad. The only worse one I've heard is the 1970 Whiskey tape.

[BillA]

I think most BB fans have a love/hate relationship with Mike. Mike at his best is awesome, and awesome in a very unique way. He has a one of a kind voice, his voice is actually the most unique thing about the vocal blend. Brian's falsetto was the best ever and was beautiful, but there are other male singers with very clean and beautiful falsettos. But Mike Love is without a doubt the best Mike Love type singer in the world. His bass voice is great, but there are other great bass singers, but he is the very very best nasal singer I have ever heard. He is also by far the most rock and roll member of the band still alive, although Denny of course lived the lifestyle more than any of the others. They never would have made it as big without him.

As odd as it might sound I believe that if you look at all of his contributions to the success of the Beach Boys (lyricist, front man, lead vocalist, background vocalist) his least important contribution was as a lead singer.  I believe this because:

1. In the fast majority of the songs he sang, especially the hits, the lead vocal is least interesting part of the song.
2. In all the songs that require a great lead vocal it always went to somebody else (primarily Brian and then Carl).
3. His bg and bass vocals always sounded great.
4. Change nothing except give his lead vocals to Dennis from 1961 through 1966 and how different would things have been?   
 

[rn57]

Was about to go asleep but this deserves some thought.

I have heard of but not heard a recording of one of the shows made back in '71, when Mike was temporarily institutionalized after the Wilson blood got the better of him, as he later put it, and Al ended up taking most of the leads.  I understand that though it's a crude recording, what's there is enough to establish that Al could not really reproduce the signature vocal tone of Mike's that carried the band to the top - that nasal thing just on the knife edge of whiny but not whiny.

Um...  The shows were in early 1970 and it was Brian or Carl taking Mike's leads. But yes, the tape is seriously bad. The only worse one I've heard is the 1970 Whiskey tape.

My apologies about these errors Andrew.  I guess somehow in my mind I thought it was Al because Al can sing pretty well at those kinds of tempos.  Carl's strength was melody with a soulful touch to the words rather than the kind of fast-paced syncopated lyric Mike handles so well.

[runnersdialzero]

A performer, not an artist.

Sorry, but this is the single most annoying and false anti-Mike sentiment there is. People say all he did was sing, shake his ass and laugh all the way to the bank. Who do you think wrote about 3/4 of the band's lyrics, total? Mike Love did. Some of them are less than stellar. Some are outright awful. Several of them are really f***ing good.

That's not even considering the fact that he wrote some stuff all by himself or made significant musical contributions to others. As someone who has written dozens (if not hundreds) of pieces of music in his life but only about seven or eight cohesive, satisfactory sets of lyrics in his life time, I have to appreciate Mike's lyrical abilities. Like, a lot. The idea that a band is less legitimate if they had a friend or peer help them write a song, sometimes had session players on their music (especially for the purpose of enhancement/vision and not lack of skill), or that solid lyrical writing is somehow less legitimate or requires less talent than solid music composition is trite, stale "rawk n roll, man" bullsh*t that holds us as a species.

I'm not accusing you, urbanite, of that, I just felt it was relevant to what I was saying and it doesn't get said enough.

[KittyKat]

Didn't Brian sing most of Mike's leads in Seattle, in a nasal voice that was an attempt to imitate Mike? I've read that, that Brian was trying to sound like Mike that day, and failing. I had a CD of the tape once upon a time, but the quality was so poor, I couldn't tell. That tape probably went through many generations of tape to tape copies before it was ever digitized.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think most BB fans have a love/hate relationship with Mike. Mike at his best is awesome, and awesome in a very unique way. He has a one of a kind voice, his voice is actually the most unique thing about the vocal blend. Brian's falsetto was the best ever and was beautiful, but there are other male singers with very clean and beautiful falsettos. But Mike Love is without a doubt the best Mike Love type singer in the world. His bass voice is great, but there are other great bass singers, but he is the very very best nasal singer I have ever heard. He is also by far the most rock and roll member of the band still alive, although Denny of course lived the lifestyle more than any of the others. They never would have made it as big without him.

As odd as it might sound I believe that if you look at all of his contributions to the success of the Beach Boys (lyricist, front man, lead vocalist, background vocalist) his least important contribution was as a lead singer.  I believe this because:

1. In the fast majority of the songs he sang, especially the hits, the lead vocal is least interesting part of the song.
2. In all the songs that require a great lead vocal it always went to somebody else (primarily Brian and then Carl).
3. His bg and bass vocals always sounded great.
4. Change nothing except give his lead vocals to Dennis from 1961 through 1966 and how different would things have been?   
 

yeah, who needs Mike Love??

http://youtu.be/LcY1hpDG4pM

I'm not trying to denigrate Brian, but such songs have just never been his forte... Mike brings something to the game that the other Beach Boys just didn't have? Is it arrogance? Perhaps, but what's wrong with that in a lead singer?

BTW, what the hell kind of guitar is Foskett playing in this clip?

[bgas]

I think most BB fans have a love/hate relationship with Mike. Mike at his best is awesome, and awesome in a very unique way. He has a one of a kind voice, his voice is actually the most unique thing about the vocal blend. Brian's falsetto was the best ever and was beautiful, but there are other male singers with very clean and beautiful falsettos. But Mike Love is without a doubt the best Mike Love type singer in the world. His bass voice is great, but there are other great bass singers, but he is the very very best nasal singer I have ever heard. He is also by far the most rock and roll member of the band still alive, although Denny of course lived the lifestyle more than any of the others. They never would have made it as big without him.

As odd as it might sound I believe that if you look at all of his contributions to the success of the Beach Boys (lyricist, front man, lead vocalist, background vocalist) his least important contribution was as a lead singer.  I believe this because:

1. In the fast majority of the songs he sang, especially the hits, the lead vocal is least interesting part of the song.
2. In all the songs that require a great lead vocal it always went to somebody else (primarily Brian and then Carl).
3. His bg and bass vocals always sounded great.
4. Change nothing except give his lead vocals to Dennis from 1961 through 1966 and how different would things have been?   
 

yeah, who needs Mike Love??

http://youtu.be/LcY1hpDG4pM

I'm not trying to denigrate Brian, but such songs have just never been his forte... Mike brings something to the game that the other Beach Boys just didn't have? Is it arrogance? Perhaps, but what's wrong with that in a lead singer?

BTW, what the hell kind of guitar is Foskett playing in this clip?

Electric?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Oh, come on, man! The electric part is clear.... Just look at the body of the guitar...... Never seen such a thing before.... Sorry for asking.

[rn57]

Should add, now that we're discussing Mike as wordsmith, that I think of Brian as his own best lyricist, in terms of the spirit of the lyrics capturing the spirit of the music - on those rare occasions when the words come to him just as he hopes they'll come to his lyricists after he talks about what the feeling or idea of the song is. "This Whole World," "Til I Die," "Busy Doin' Nothin'" - only he could have come up with those.

Second, Van Dyke Parks.  Third, Mike Love. Fourth, Roger Christian (a man who really put a story into a lyric). Fifth, Tony Asher (controversial to put him that low no doubt, but that's the order I'd put them in).

[NHC]

Just in time for Sumahama

HAH!

[NHC]

He's Brian's biggest fan and supporter. That's good enough for me.

Works for me.

[NHC]

An essential part of the Beach Boys from day one. A lot of people sat "Brian could have done this with anybody, he didn't need Mike (or presumably Al, David or his own brothers)".Yes, but he didn't. He used who he used and we know the result. Who knows how it might have worked with "anybody".  What we do know is that it worked with the people it worked with. This band is not one of the greatest couple of bands in history for no reason, or because it was populated by Brian Wilson and "anybody".

[halblaineisgood]

.

[NHC]

Thank you.  Look forward to seeing you all right here n this thread's Part 97 in July

[halblaineisgood]

.

[Kurosawa]

I think most BB fans have a love/hate relationship with Mike. Mike at his best is awesome, and awesome in a very unique way. He has a one of a kind voice, his voice is actually the most unique thing about the vocal blend. Brian's falsetto was the best ever and was beautiful, but there are other male singers with very clean and beautiful falsettos. But Mike Love is without a doubt the best Mike Love type singer in the world. His bass voice is great, but there are other great bass singers, but he is the very very best nasal singer I have ever heard. He is also by far the most rock and roll member of the band still alive, although Denny of course lived the lifestyle more than any of the others. They never would have made it as big without him.

As odd as it might sound I believe that if you look at all of his contributions to the success of the Beach Boys (lyricist, front man, lead vocalist, background vocalist) his least important contribution was as a lead singer.  I believe this because:

1. In the fast majority of the songs he sang, especially the hits, the lead vocal is least interesting part of the song.
2. In all the songs that require a great lead vocal it always went to somebody else (primarily Brian and then Carl).
3. His bg and bass vocals always sounded great.
4. Change nothing except give his lead vocals to Dennis from 1961 through 1966 and how different would things have been?   
 

I don't think Dennis had it together enough to have been in Mike's spot during that time frame. But if he had, the band would have been even bigger considering you would be trading a balding dork for a total sex symbol.  But there's no way Brian or any of them would have trusted Dennis with that kind of responsibility. Didn't Brian say something to the effect that Dennis was "too stupid to learn" when they first started?

[rn57]

OK, time for a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddymTC641M

This is the very first live performance, in somebody's living room around Xmas 2003, but that noted group of BBs soundalike collegians, The Fendertones. The first two songs they attempt are Little St Nick and Little Honda - two Mike lead vocals.  These fellows are already pretty good at the harmonies, but the guy doing Mike is having a little trouble hitting that nasal-but-not-quite-whiny quality Mike has.  He's improved a bit in that department since then but this illustrates, I think, the uniqueness of Mike's voice and the difficulty of the argument that Brian could have gotten just anybody to do that.

[clack]

Did any member of a major rock/pop group ever get screwed over as much as Mike Love?

1) Early days, (Surfin' Safari era) he's co-founder, co-leader, lead singer, and co-writer
2) Then Brian becomes co-lead singer, and begins writing with outside lyricists (as well as Mike)
3) Then Mike is denied writing credits for huge hits that he provided lyrics for -- while Brian's roommate, guys Brian runs into at parties, etc. all get co-writing credits. And Mike is family!
4) Then Al, Carl, and Dennis begin getting lead vocal assignments, further diluting Mike's centrality
5) Then Mike is cut off from virtually all the songwriting, and almost all of the lead singing (Pet Sounds), completing his journey from co-leader to marginalized in the space of 4 years.
6) Finally, after Mike makes a bit of a creative comeback by co-writing their biggest hit ever (Good Vibrations), he's rewarded by once more being shunted aside so that Brian can co-write with some outsider -- who, in Mike's view, is providing meaningless, pretentious, word-salad lyrics