After 50+ years, what's the final verdict on Mike Love?

[Smile4ever]

The Beach Boys have been around in some form for 50+ years. The members are now in their 70s (or sadly, no longer around), so we've probably had ample time to evaluate the "legacy" of the band and its individual members.

So what's the verdict on Mike Love? In another thread I asked which album was the band's most polarizing (divisive among fans) release. That's debatable. But I think it's safe to say that Mike Love IS the most polarizing Beach Boy--with Dennis Wilson receiving "honorable mention."  Love has been loved--pun initially unintended-- by some fans for his distinct vocals, lyrical contributions, dedication to the band, and commercial sensibility. He's been hated by other fans who believe he has no artistic integrity and has diluted the Beach Boys brand over the years. Of course, other fans see "both sides" and view him as having a mixed legacy--a contributor who has both helped and hurt the band at various points in history.

So where do you stand? With 50+ years of information to study, it may be time for a final verdict. What's your opinion of Mike Love?

[KittyKat]

I'm guessing you're new here.  This is a constant topic, though, and I'm sure everyone has their own, highly polarized opinions.

One thing I have noticed about Mike Love lately is that one of his pet causes, TM, seems to be making a huge comeback among the celebrity set, thanks to David Lynch and his foundation (whom Mike also has links with via their mutual interest). I'm not sure what it means. Isn't TM still basically a cult, and believes in odd things such as the ability to fly via meditation?

[Cam Mott]

Second only to Brian in his contribution to their legacy. You could even look at it as him being most important to their legacy. Confident guy, down with most anything Brian wanted to do, cared alot about all of the Boys. Big heart, even a tender heart, very generous in many ways, spent most his career biting his tongue and lumping it.

[Smile4ever]

I'm guessing you're new here.  This is a constant topic, though, and I'm sure everyone has their own, highly polarized opinions.

Haha, yeah I am new here.    I'm sure this topic has been discussed in various forms for years. But since I haven't been around I wanted to hear what people thought. Additionally, following the 50th Reunion Tour it seems that Mike Love's reputation has been a topic of conversation considering how the tour ended in a mildly controversial way, with various fans "taking sides." So, I'm sorry if this is really old without providing any updated relevance. But just wanted to ask.

[Amanda Hart]

Isn't TM still basically a cult, and believes in odd things such as the ability to fly via meditation?

Not in my experience. If anything it might be a money grab, which is why it fell out of favor in the late '60s to begin with, but not a cult. It may depend on how into it you get, but I went to the TM center here in Chicago about 2 years ago. You pay $30, they have a ceremony where you eat an apple and get a mantra, then you sit some place quiet for 20 minutes. I know they have the retreats and everything, which things may get more "culty" there, but there certainly was no pressure get involved.

I'm tight on time today, so I won't go into any detailed thoughts on Mike Love right now. I know I've said this here before, but I find him to be a fascinating figure. It's pretty easy to guess what his long lasting legacy will be to your average music fan, so most people won't care to delve beyond his law suit happy reputation, but I think he makes for a really interesting character study.

[Freddie French-Pounce]

I think what a Mike topic really needs after all this time is simply a Poll with three options - Hero, Villain, Equal

I personally would go with the preferable category. Yes, he has made some completely ridiculous decisions, but imagine a successful beach boys legacy without him - it just wouldn't be. He and Brian were the initial unstoppable team, with the rest following on. Obviously once they all flourished things change in that respect, but without him their chance to shine may never have come.

etc.

[Smile4ever]

I think what a Mike topic really needs after all this time is simply a Poll with three options - Hero, Villain, Equal

Yeah, that's a good idea. But I didn't want to do the poll option though because I preferred to hear more nuanced written opinions about Love, instead of simply clicking the poll.

Amanda Hart, I'd really look forward to your opinion/"character study" of Love when you have an opportunity.

[AndrewHickey]

My opinion: He's a human being, and has done good and bad things as human beings do.
Artistically, he was a great collaborator for Brian (and occasionally Dennis) between 1962 and the early 70s, is still one of the best bass vocalists and frontmen in the business, and has not written a good, or even listenable, song in my lifetime.

[gfac22]

Before I started hanging out here, I always thought that everybody hated Mike Love, and if you said or thought anything good about him you were wrong.  I've never hated the guy, but when you start diving into the history of the Beach Boys, Brian's genius is shoved down your throat with Mike's contributions being marginalized, so it's easy to buy into.  Yeah, he's done a lot of jerky things, but he's done a lot of great things, too.  I think his main problem has always been that his lawsuits and asshole behavior have always been the most widely publicized and therefore criticized (some of it deserved, some of it not).  In my humble opinion, the farther you dig into the Beach Boys story, the more it becomes obvious that all of the guys have done great things, and they've all done terrible things.  I don't know, I think he's probably one of the more misunderstood rock stars of all time.  Hero, villain, somewhere in between.

[Myk Luhv]

My opinion: He's a human being, and has done good and bad things as human beings do.
Artistically [...] has not written a good, or even listenable, song in my lifetime.

I dunno dude, I very much like "Big Sur", love "All I Wanna Do", and am bowled over by "All This is That". If he had kept that sort of songwriting up...

[AndrewHickey]

My opinion: He's a human being, and has done good and bad things as human beings do.
Artistically [...] has not written a good, or even listenable, song in my lifetime.

I dunno dude, I very much like "Big Sur", love "All I Wanna Do", and am bowled over by "All This is That". If he had kept that sort of songwriting up...

I was born in 1978.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Just in time for Sumahama

[KittyKat]

Isn't TM still basically a cult, and believes in odd things such as the ability to fly via meditation?

Not in my experience. If anything it might be a money grab, which is why it fell out of favor in the late '60s to begin with, but not a cult. It may depend on how into it you get, but I went to the TM center here in Chicago about 2 years ago. You pay $30, they have a ceremony where you eat an apple and get a mantra, then you sit some place quiet for 20 minutes. I know they have the retreats and everything, which things may get more "culty" there, but there certainly was no pressure get involved.

I'm tight on time today, so I won't go into any detailed thoughts on Mike Love right now. I know I've said this here before, but I find him to be a fascinating figure. It's pretty easy to guess what his long lasting legacy will be to your average music fan, so most people won't care to delve beyond his law suit happy reputation, but I think he makes for a really interesting character study.

What I've read about TM is that people who were involved in it heavily, even in recent times, have described it as a cult that can be difficult to break away from.  Though what they describe seems to be something they voluntarily submitted to. I just find it interesting that some recent practitioners who broke away have the same complaints that people in the '60s and '70s had (money grab, brainwashing), yet in some ways, TM has more legitimacy now among the wealthy and show biz types than it ever did back then. The Lynch Foundation has huge gala benefits in New York every year and the people advocating for TM include people like Dr. Oz, as well as musicians, actors, political pundits, and professional athletes.  Perhaps there's something about the group that appeals to the rich and famous, and Mike doesn't seem as out of step for believing in TM as he used to (when it was out of fashion for several decades).

[Jason]

He's Brian's biggest fan and supporter. That's good enough for me.

[bgas]

My opinion: He's a human being, and has done good and bad things as human beings do.
Artistically [...] has not written a good, or even listenable, song in my lifetime.

I dunno dude, I very much like "Big Sur", love "All I Wanna Do", and am bowled over by "All This is That". If he had kept that sort of songwriting up...

I was born in 1978.

heh heh, yeah, but what's that in dog years?

[MBE]

My opinion: He's a human being, and has done good and bad things as human beings do.
Artistically, he was a great collaborator for Brian (and occasionally Dennis) between 1962 and the early 70s, is still one of the best bass vocalists and frontmen in the business, and has not written a good, or even listenable, song in my lifetime.

Sums it up well. I was born in 1976 so he's done a few decent songs since-notably for the unreleased First Love. He stuff on TWGMTR was fine though Daybreak was first written for the First Love sessions.

As far as how the tour ended, the passing weeks have allowed me to see his point. The 2012 tour was special and I would hate to see the real Beach Boys playing tiny oldies gigs. 

[Cabinessenceking]

He is undisputedly a fantastic vocalist, charismatic frontman and an enduring cultural icon for american culture for over 50 years. He is also a complete prat.

[Lonelysea30]

I think mike has had a bad rap because of  the things he says, but they would not be the beach boys without him. He wrote alot of songs with Brian, the so called albums he disliked, he sang very good on.  But he's done scumbag things like dogging brians solo stuff but gloating over Kokomo, saying  Brian never had a hit on a solo album. Almost to say that Brian can't write a hit song alone, but that he accomplished that with Kokomo.  Then he will say brian's great and a genius, mikes all over the map. I suppose I don't understand his actions, but nonetheless he's a crucial member of the band and all that they represent. Mike almost comes off as cocky buy yet insecure, every interview he seems to have to throw in a comment about what he wrote or did, it's like hes always defending his position in the band. But just be humble, we all know what u've done man!

[I. Spaceman]

He is undisputedly a fantastic vocalist, charismatic frontman and an enduring cultural icon for american culture for over 50 years. He is also a complete prat.

I like Mick Jagger!

[BillA]

I like the Mike Love of "All I Wanna Do" and "Big Sur" and "All This is That"

I dislike the Mike Love of "MIU", "Summer in Paradise", the RRHOF induction, cheerleaders and Kokomo.

Artistically I believe that "Endless Summer" reversed his maturation as an artist.  A twenty three year old attempting to appeal to teenagers is okay.  A 35+ year old trying t appeal to teenagers is creepy.

I think he over rates his commercial instincts.

I admire his "I don't care what you think attitude".  Very rock 'n roll of him.

[rn57]

Was about to go asleep but this deserves some thought.

I have heard of but not heard a recording of one of the shows made back in '71, when Mike was temporarily institutionalized after the Wilson blood got the better of him, as he later put it, and Al ended up taking most of the leads.  I understand that though it's a crude recording, what's there is enough to establish that Al could not really reproduce the signature vocal tone of Mike's that carried the band to the top - that nasal thing just on the knife edge of whiny but not whiny. They might have done a little better imitatiing the bass vocal but again, that is Mike's domain, and he's very difficult to replace there too.  Look at the earlier Shindig clip for examples of his skill in that area.

As a lead singer, he can drop the cockiness when he chooses and sing with extraordinary gentleness and sensitivity - Meant For You is a prime example in terms of lead singing, and his counterpoint to Brian's "when day is over I close my tired eyes" really illustrates how he can weave around a lead vocal when a delicate touch is needed.

Songwriting - "All This Is That" and "All I Wanna Do" and "California Saga," plus some others, show that he can produce tracks that are true album highlights - on their best albums.

Now, in the area of bandleading.....

In another thread I talked about my advice to a reporter writing an obituary of Tandyn Almer.  Where the guys were concerned I told him to contact Brian, Mike, Al and Bruce in that order.  (Come to think of it maybe I should have suggested Blondie and Ricky too....) 

Brian, I just figure, would have someone call back with a statement - I don't know if it'll be something like "Tandyn was a great writer. It was great to listen to Rhapsody In Blue with him and write songs" or such.  (But I'm putting up the obit's text, so we'll see what's said if anything.)

Mike I listed second because, first, his recollections of the sessions involving Tandyn would be clear - whether the events as they happened support his interpretation of the behavior and motives of Tandyn is another thing.  But he could say what he thought and he would be unambiguous in saying it. 

Which is true of his interviews. He says what he considers to be the facts, and does, when challenged, present the reasons why he thinks his interpretation is correct. 

I think Mike tries to be fair, too, in balancing what he perceives as what the ordinary guy or gal would like to hear at a Beach Boys show with what the hardcore fans want to hear - but in doing this he always follows the conclusions he draws based on what he thinks the ratio at the shows will be.  The Mike & Bruce combo generally do casinos and smaller towns so they put on the playlist what they think most people in those locales hope to hear, which are the hits.  Since the audiences last year were more diverse than that, he was open to going into the deep catalog, providing it had something in common with what the band had played in live shows in previous times. 

Right now, I'm ready to put up with all Mike's insensitivity and occasional boorish leanings, because he's indispensable. I just keep my fingers crossed and hope next week he doesn't say or do something that pisses me off. But there's always that chance.

[Kurosawa]

I think most BB fans have a love/hate relationship with Mike. Mike at his best is awesome, and awesome in a very unique way. He has a one of a kind voice, his voice is actually the most unique thing about the vocal blend. Brian's falsetto was the best ever and was beautiful, but there are other male singers with very clean and beautiful falsettos. But Mike Love is without a doubt the best Mike Love type singer in the world. His bass voice is great, but there are other great bass singers, but he is the very very best nasal singer I have ever heard. He is also by far the most rock and roll member of the band still alive, although Denny of course lived the lifestyle more than any of the others. They never would have made it as big without him.

With all that said, I do feel they reached a point where it was a mistake for Brian to stay along with the rest of the band. You just can't have a real band when the main writer and second main singer doesn't tour. I think when the BB split into two groups-the live and the studio group-was the real beginning of the end, and the failure of SMiLE was just the final nail in the coffin. And Mike did play a big part in that, but Brian's issues and weaknesses made it worse.

Mike reminds me a lot of Roger Daltrey, except I think Roger has done a much better job over the years with a similar position as a frontman and singer of another writer's songs. And Roger even had much less to do with Pete's songs than Mike did-at least Mike did do a ton of lyrics and some musical input as well. Maybe that's why Roger defers to Pete more than Mike does to Brian.

[urbanite]

A performer, not an artist.

His speech to the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame is probably a more accurate example of who he is, than all the guarded interviews.

[Jason]

If you think performers aren't artists in their own right, you're seriously deluded. That's like saying someone like Mick Jagger or Jim Morrison or Elvis Presley isn't an artist. Total bullshit.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I would, er, imagine that performing is ..... an art..... right?..... "Performing Arts" ..... I've heard that term tossed around here and there.....