Record company archival policy

[ash]

For any of you who like me hope that missing tapes (esp. Smile) may still be found this makes interesting if occasionally distressing reading.
http://www.billholland.net/words/Labels%20Strive%20to%20Rectify%20Past%20Archival%20Problems.pdf

The paragraph "source familiar with the EMI-Capitol libraries admitted that "there are probably 10,,000 reels that nobody knows what's on them. And probably won't know--it isn't cost-effective. You know how much it would cost to play all those tapes and pay experts to find out what's there?" makes me wonder what could be lurking unfound.
Not sure how many of you are aware that a missing cut of  the 1927 film Metropolis was found (in Argentina) in 2008. Not suggesting Mr Boyd goes there to look for the dec 19th 1966 Heroes session but things can turn up in unusual places. I still hope to see Orson Welles' original cut of The Magnificent Ambersons one day and the Metropolis discovery made that seem like a possibility, no matter how small.
I'm sure Alan/Mark et al. looked everywhere possible. I wonder how much of a dead end they feel they have reached in terms of multitracks and acetates. I hope their latest discoveries appear on the boxset.

[hypehat]

I would so happily volunteer my time for that.

[jeffcdo]

Fascinating article.  You would think that the evaluation of such recordings could be crowdsourced.

[runnersdialzero]

I would so happily volunteer my time for that.

I think a lot of folks here would.

[The Heartical Don]

Thanks go out to Ash for this wonderful piece of writing (which is also depressing reading, sometimes, but important at any rate).

I would like to recommend the following book, essential to all collectors and pop fans in general:



Read it; it's cheap and you won't regret it.

[ash]

I'd just like to stress i didn't write that article, just found it a while ago and lost it in my archive !
Orson Welles fans might like to know that UCLA has several cans of undeveloped film from It's All True and another unidentified project(s) from that period in it's archive.
Can you believe that ? Undeveloped....
No sign of the Inside Pop reels though.
I wish Alan et al. had printed more tape box pictures so we had a better idea of what was recorded and subsequently went missing. I'm sure Alan has mentioned that several Heroes boxes have no tape reels inside. Wonder if any of those tapes are in this "pile" of unlabelled tapes or if BW simply said we don't need that and used them for something else ? That's what happened to the first Heroes session isn't it ?

[The Heartical Don]

I'd just like to stress i didn't write that article, just found it a while ago and lost it in my archive !
Orson Welles fans might like to know that UCLA has several cans of undeveloped film from It's All True and another unidentified project(s) from that period in it's archive.
Can you believe that ? Undeveloped....
No sign of the Inside Pop reels though.
I wish Alan et al. had printed more tape box pictures so we had a better idea of what was recorded and subsequently went missing. I'm sure Alan has mentioned that several Heroes boxes have no tape reels inside. Wonder if any of those tapes are in this "pile" of unlabelled tapes or if BW simply said we don't need that and used them for something else ? That's what happened to the first Heroes session isn't it ?

Thanks for correcting, Ash - only now I see that I forgot to write: 'thanks for posting this piece of writing (etc.)'.

And yes, it's another opportunity for starting speculating to our heart's content...

[SMiLE Brian]

Imagine finding the finished smile album...

[The Heartical Don]

Imagine finding the finished smile album...

I hear that it's located somewhere in a landfill near Roswell, NM.

Felix Baumgartner tried hard to take a new perspective on things, high above, and then dive for it.

It did not work.

[buddhahat]

Thanks go out to Ash for this wonderful piece of writing (which is also depressing reading, sometimes, but important at any rate).

I would like to recommend the following book, essential to all collectors and pop fans in general:



Read it; it's cheap and you won't regret it.

I think I read a snippet of this in the Guardian, or at least it was  piece about retromania. Fascinating stuff - I might see if I can pick up that book. Thanks for the tip.

[SMiLE Brian]

Imagine finding the finished smile album...

I hear that it's located somewhere in a landfill near Roswell, NM.

Felix Baumgartner tried hard to take a new perspective on things, high above, and then dive for it.

It did not work.

[DonnyL]

Fascinating article.  You would think that the evaluation of such recordings could be crowdsourced.

Not really ...

The most difficult, time consuming, and expensive element is not the listening but the transferring of old, fragile media. You must have the proper facilities to play such tapes, and the expertise to treat and handle them. Simply locating a working machine to play back some of the tapes would not be easy (how many folks here have a 1/2" 3-track recorder or a 1" 12-track?), and maintaining the variety of machines to play some of the masters is a specialized field. There are a few companies out there who can handle it ... Sonicraft in New Jersey comes to mind.

[The Heartical Don]

Fascinating article.  You would think that the evaluation of such recordings could be crowdsourced.

Not really ...

The most difficult, time consuming, and expensive element is not the listening but the transferring of old, fragile media. You must have the proper facilities to play such tapes, and the expertise to treat and handle them. Simply locating a working machine to play back some of the tapes would not be easy (how many folks here have a 1/2" 3-track recorder or a 1" 12-track?), and maintaining the variety of machines to play some of the masters is a specialized field. There are a few companies out there who can handle it ... Sonicraft in New Jersey comes to mind.

Can sound carriers be so fragile that they fall apart, when in the wrong hands?

[jeffcdo]

Not really ...

The most difficult, time consuming, and expensive element is not the listening but the transferring of old, fragile media. You must have the proper facilities to play such tapes, and the expertise to treat and handle them. Simply locating a working machine to play back some of the tapes would not be easy (how many folks here have a 1/2" 3-track recorder or a 1" 12-track?), and maintaining the variety of machines to play some of the masters is a specialized field. There are a few companies out there who can handle it ... Sonicraft in New Jersey comes to mind.

That's why I said evaluation, not initial playback...

[DonnyL]

Fascinating article.  You would think that the evaluation of such recordings could be crowdsourced.

Not really ...

The most difficult, time consuming, and expensive element is not the listening but the transferring of old, fragile media. You must have the proper facilities to play such tapes, and the expertise to treat and handle them. Simply locating a working machine to play back some of the tapes would not be easy (how many folks here have a 1/2" 3-track recorder or a 1" 12-track?), and maintaining the variety of machines to play some of the masters is a specialized field. There are a few companies out there who can handle it ... Sonicraft in New Jersey comes to mind.

Can sound carriers be so fragile that they fall apart, when in the wrong hands?

basically, yes. it's much more complicated than that. Every particular type of tape has specific problems that people need to be aware of in order to avoid damage.

Most of our beloved Beach Boys reels from the '60s are on Scotch 201, 202, 203 or 111, probably plenty of other variants as well. Each one of these tape types have specific potential problems that must be addressed prior to even attempting playback. I've actually heard people who should know better saying things like, 'Oh just bake it' ... if you bake any of these formulas, the tape can be ruined. 111 can be very brittle and the transport needs to be setup for gentle operation, and the operator needs to be very careful about handling. 202 and 203 are great tapes but can suffer from an anamoly that involves the oxide completely coming off of the tape (it will literally become transparent), and 203 is very thin and must be run very carefully to avoid stretching (which causes pitch variations similar to what you hear on 'Do You Like Worms?'). 201 is also problematic, but I haven't figured out exactly what's going on with it personally yet. It sheds more oxide kind of like sticky-shed, but it's acetate so it cannot be baked, and it doesn't have a backcoating anyway. Playback can be accomplished but cleaning of the tape and path frequenty is necessary for a clean transfer.

Acetate tape (particularly 111) usually has at least some degree of 'vinegar syndrome', which is a deterioration that emits a vinegar odor and can infect entire libraries like a virus (it literally spreads from tape to tape). It's best to not store large groups of acetate tapes close together, or to perhaps store them alternating side by side with poly tapes, but i doubt anyone actually does this because most people don't know about it. There's no cure for vinegar syndrome but exposure to dry air helps slow the process.

[DonnyL]

Not really ...

The most difficult, time consuming, and expensive element is not the listening but the transferring of old, fragile media. You must have the proper facilities to play such tapes, and the expertise to treat and handle them. Simply locating a working machine to play back some of the tapes would not be easy (how many folks here have a 1/2" 3-track recorder or a 1" 12-track?), and maintaining the variety of machines to play some of the masters is a specialized field. There are a few companies out there who can handle it ... Sonicraft in New Jersey comes to mind.

That's why I said evaluation, not initial playback...

hmm perhaps I misunderstood ...

how can you evaluate the tape without playing it? I thought the problem was there are thousands of unlabeled or mislabeled reels?

To qualify as someone who could evaluate tapes, you need to be familiar with tapes and tape preservation. You would also need to have an understanding of the history of the label and artists, as well as an understanding of different tape types, when they were used, etc.

[The Heartical Don]

@DonnyL -

great info, cheers for that! I am an absolute layman in these matters, but love such detailed knowledge. It makes me much more aware of what people who try to save the treasures of the past have to go through...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Boyd once gave me an incomplete list of formats he'd encountered in the Brother archives. It would make your hair stand on end, especially when you factor in finding the equipment to actually play it on. But, as he added (he's also in the silent movie restoration/archive business), at least he's never opened a tape box to find it's apparently full of biscuit crumbs and sticky goop.

Yet. 

[DonnyL]

Boyd once gave me an incomplete list of formats he'd encountered in the Brother archives. It would make your hair stand on end, especially when you factor in finding the equipment to actually play it on. But, as he added (he's also in the silent movie restoration/archive business), at least he's never opened a tape box to find it's apparently full of biscuit crumbs and sticky goop.

Yet. 

ha, yeh i can only imagine. although Sonicraft can transfer pretty much anything ... although I'd venture to say 90% of all '60s-'70s studio tapes are on 1/4" mono or 2-track, 1/2" 3 or 4-track, 1" 8-track, or 2" 16 or 24-track ... though you do have major historic recordings on oddball formats like the Scully 1" 12-track or the Stephens 2" 40-track (both ahead of their time really). Some studios even used 35mm recorders.

[Jay]

Perhaps somebody in the BB's camp should get in touch with SoniCraft, if they haven't already.

[adloc]

Imagine finding the finished smile album...

And then do with it what Mr Desper's doing on his thread.....

[Jay]

I didn't actually know that Mr Boyd was in the silent film business(don't laugh). I mainly knew of his Beach Boys association. I had read of some mention of silent film in regards to him, but I just thought he was a huge silent film buff.  Perhaps then, he could be of some assistance in trying to identify this film. There are I think three parts of it on the YouTube channel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPuDig_Pw5Q&feature=plcp

[The Heartical Don]

I didn't actually know that Mr Boyd was in the silent film business(don't laugh). I mainly knew of his Beach Boys association. I had read of some mention of silent film in regards to him, but I just thought he was a huge silent film buff.  Perhaps then, he could be of some assistance in trying to identify this film. There are I think three parts of it on the YouTube channel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPuDig_Pw5Q&feature=plcp

Amazing stuff... thanks for referring!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Maybe translating the intertitles might furnish a clue ?

[Aegir]

Fascinating article.  You would think that the evaluation of such recordings could be crowdsourced.

Not really ...

The most difficult, time consuming, and expensive element is not the listening but the transferring of old, fragile media. You must have the proper facilities to play such tapes, and the expertise to treat and handle them. Simply locating a working machine to play back some of the tapes would not be easy (how many folks here have a 1/2" 3-track recorder or a 1" 12-track?), and maintaining the variety of machines to play some of the masters is a specialized field. There are a few companies out there who can handle it ... Sonicraft in New Jersey comes to mind.

Can sound carriers be so fragile that they fall apart, when in the wrong hands?

basically, yes. it's much more complicated than that. Every particular type of tape has specific problems that people need to be aware of in order to avoid damage.

Most of our beloved Beach Boys reels from the '60s are on Scotch 201, 202, 203 or 111, probably plenty of other variants as well. Each one of these tape types have specific potential problems that must be addressed prior to even attempting playback. I've actually heard people who should know better saying things like, 'Oh just bake it' ... if you bake any of these formulas, the tape can be ruined. 111 can be very brittle and the transport needs to be setup for gentle operation, and the operator needs to be very careful about handling. 202 and 203 are great tapes but can suffer from an anamoly that involves the oxide completely coming off of the tape (it will literally become transparent), and 203 is very thin and must be run very carefully to avoid stretching (which causes pitch variations similar to what you hear on 'Do You Like Worms?'). 201 is also problematic, but I haven't figured out exactly what's going on with it personally yet. It sheds more oxide kind of like sticky-shed, but it's acetate so it cannot be baked, and it doesn't have a backcoating anyway. Playback can be accomplished but cleaning of the tape and path frequenty is necessary for a clean transfer.

Acetate tape (particularly 111) usually has at least some degree of 'vinegar syndrome', which is a deterioration that emits a vinegar odor and can infect entire libraries like a virus (it literally spreads from tape to tape). It's best to not store large groups of acetate tapes close together, or to perhaps store them alternating side by side with poly tapes, but i doubt anyone actually does this because most people don't know about it. There's no cure for vinegar syndrome but exposure to dry air helps slow the process.

this is very enlightening, I never realized listening to old tapes was such an involved process.