Another S**t stirring article in The Independent today !

[filledeplage]

It is a matter of recorded and verifiable fact that the current Mike & Bruce dates were arranged months ago, I think even before the 50th anniversary tour began.

We have had, for 14 years now, the default "Beach Boys" show being the M&B deal, with Brian, Al etc. doing their own thing.

The 50th anniversary tour was a special event.

We have returned to the default situation. As arranged. As agreed. As announced - prior to the 50th anniversary tour beginning.

Would I like to see all 5 Beach Boys play together again? Hell yes. But I was never under any illusions that the guys would do anything other than they announced. And they are doing what they announced.

The news media whipped up the controversy with this silly, and false, idea that Brian and co. had been fired by Mike.

Mike can sure be a skull of Dick Reising but he's done nothing here to fire anyone.

Very good - the concept of "special event."

Others will counter that the "default band" are the principals.   

Put on your flack jacket! 

No one can accuse this forum of being dull.

[Jonathan Blum]

I disagree, the plan has long been known and public. Even after the recent September announcement there was no stink until like a week to 10 days later when the other Boys' announcements claiming confusion and the press suggestions someone was being fired began.

No, Cam.  The press release was less than two weeks ago, on September 17th.  It hit Rolling Stone within a day.  They played the Grammy Museum on the 18th, and the stories about that the next day (in places like Billboard and the LA Times) all mentioned the split.  Four days later it had hit CNN.  The story was picked up, the "stink" was out there.

Brian and Al didn't issue a press release, they were asked for their comments because the story had broken.

You've always been really good at rewriting history, but this is way too fresh in peoples' memories to get away with it.

Regards,
Jon Blum

[Jon Stebbins]

I typed a long thing and it timed out and I lost it but others have already said it.

Anyways regarding timing of the announcement, I just think it is demonstrable that the announcements timing is not the problem. It actually was announced,  discussed, and reported in late June that there would be BrianAlDavidless post Reunion Tour October dates and that was when the Reunion was to end in mid-September. So it is demonstrated that the timing of the Mike's announcement is not the problem,

No, the announcement is exactly the problem.  We saw that simply announcing some gigs without the full lineup didn't get the bad publicity, any more than the band touring without Brian and Dennis in 1982 did.  But putting out a press release to celebrate the lineup change, and presenting the reduced lineup as the Beach Boys from that point onwards, with no indication of the full group ever working together again or even hoping to work together again, is a much bigger story.  And doing it just before their final show-of-unity concerts is just plain bizarre timing.

Regards,
Jon Blum

Exactly. Badly timed. Badly worded. Brian's reaction was to the press quizzing him on a taint they'd already picked up on. I chatted with CNN reporters at the Grammy Museum thing and that's all they could talk about, how cold the announcement from Mike's camp seemed...and how the timing seemed provocative.

[hypehat]

I'm with you guys - saying things like 'THE ENDLESS SUMMER CONTINUES (without Brian, David or Al)' right then, as they were about to cap off a great summer does seem like a big slap in the face, and yes we all know that C50 was finite and they had booked these shows then etc. The question becomes why the announcement was made then.

[Cam Mott]

Yes the announcement was on the 17th, Howie posted it here. To me the stink didn't start until the "fired" press got traction and the fan petition got official links from the 23rd to the 26th. Maybe I've got the dates wrong or maybe our mileage will vary.

[HeyJude]

I think when we talk about "perception" as it relates to Mike's press release, we're talking about two very different groups. The masses, the uninformed media, they don't know anything about the BRI license to use the BB name, they don't know who has been in the band for the last 14 years, and/or they are too lazy to research it. That ignorance is not right, but it's a reality. For the BB organization, and specifically whomever planned out Mike's press release, to not understand in light of the hugely increased interest and awareness raised for the BB's this year due to their awesome tour that such a press release would result in a bunch of negative press is just incompetent.

As for the fans' perception, yes, we did know more than the masses about the realities of the "norm" for BB tours of recent years, and that it could go back to that.

What apparently both categories, the fans and the masses, agree on is that the press release is just a disaster in terms of PR. One can say that objectively regardless of how much you like or dislike Mike or his band.

This continued sort of robotic response that the content of Mike's press release is accurate does not take any sort of emotion or PR or perception into account.

If being informationally and factually correct are the only standards for such press releases, then a press release that reads "I have the license to use the name and Al can go fudge himself and remake 'The Many Moods of Murry Wilson'" is also technically accurate. Yes, that is an obvious exaggeration. 

[KittyKat]

Didn't someone who was backstage at the Australian reunion gigs say that one of Brian's band members said that Brian planned to return to Australia some time in the next year and play as a solo act?  Brian has been planning for his own solo career to continue without the other Beach Boys so I'm not sure why he implied otherwise to the press.  If he weren't expecting the break-up, he wouldn't be planning more solo tours.

[HeyJude]

Didn't someone who was backstage at the Australian reunion gigs say that one of Brian's band members said that Brian planned to return to Australia some time in the next year and play as a solo act?  Brian has been planning for his own solo career to continue without the other Beach Boys so I'm not sure why he implied otherwise to the press.  If he weren't expecting the break-up, he wouldn't be planning more solo tours.

I realize we're all sort of operating on some guesswork and speculation, but how did one band member mentioning Brian wanting to come back there turn into Brian planning a solo tour and contradicting himself to the press? That's a lot of stretching and assuming. It seems pretty obvious Brian wanted the reunion to continue in some form, and in some form other than Mike continuing without him with some sort of vague possibility of more reunion work at some point. I don't think any plans would preclude more solo plans from any of the BB's. Brian (or Al, or anybody else) could work solo gigs around any potential reunion shows.

As I said, we're speculating on a lot of this. But as opposed to that vague bit from one of Brian's band members, we have much more firm evidence of certain things relating to Mike's plans. We have clear evidence of booking shows on Mike's part, whether it was before, during, or after the reunion. Further, while Mike's plans involve taking a different group out and using the same name as the reunion band, any potential Brian gigs would, I assume, be billed as "Brian Wilson" as they always have.

That's another area where Mike would have saved himself all the bad PR by issuing the exact same press release, but with one change: "Mike will be continuing the Endless Summer with his own solo tour celebrating the Beach Boys' music." That would never happen, but he could do that if he wanted to.

[Sheriff John Stone]

That's a lot of stretching and assuming. It seems pretty obvious Brian wanted the reunion to continue in some form...

Just to clarify, are you assuming that Brian wanted the reunion to continue from Brian's insightful and telling quote, "I'm bummed"?

[KittyKat]

Brian could have reunited the band years ago.  Brian wrote those songs for "Radio" back in 1998 with a plan to use them in the future.  It took him years to get to that point. In the meantime, he reached the age of 70, as did Al, and Mike is 71.  So, why didn't Brian plan better and start on the reunion a few years ago, when  they were all younger and it would have been easier to plan a schedule of two years breaks in between touring?  Just saying.  Yeah, I know Brian had a great solo career to think about, like doing "Smile," not to mention covers of Disney songs.

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike kinda sued Brian.....

[filledeplage]

Brian could have reunited the band years ago.  Brian wrote those songs for "Radio" back in 1998 with a plan to use them in the future.  It took him years to get to that point. In the meantime, he reached the age of 70, as did Al, and Mike is 71.  So, why didn't Brian plan better and start on the reunion a few years ago, when  they were all younger and it would have been easier to plan a schedule of two years breaks in between touring?  Just saying.  Yeah, I know Brian had a great solo career to think about, like doing "Smile," not to mention covers of Disney songs.

Kitty Kat - while much of what you're saying is true, I like to look at Brian's body of work, since 1998, after he (we all) lost the magnificent voice of Carl.  He sort of took a different approach to the music, with the support of his fabulous band, doing Pet Sounds live, and cleaning up that "unfinished business" called SMiLE.  It seems that his journey led him back to his "roots" but he took a creative path or road back "home."

And while 70 sounds old to someone much younger, there are lots of vibrant, creative and renewed artists, happier to embark on another adventure.  And lots of health related developments that keep people active, longer.  He looked so awesome and very happy at those shows in England.  BB (pun intended!)

[hypehat]

That's a lot of stretching and assuming. It seems pretty obvious Brian wanted the reunion to continue in some form...

Just to clarify, are you assuming that Brian wanted the reunion to continue from Brian's insightful and telling quote, "I'm bummed"?

The reunion was also supposed to be 50 dates.... they overran a little because someone wanted to keep touring...

[Sheriff John Stone]

That's a lot of stretching and assuming. It seems pretty obvious Brian wanted the reunion to continue in some form...

Just to clarify, are you assuming that Brian wanted the reunion to continue from Brian's insightful and telling quote, "I'm bummed"?

The reunion was also supposed to be 50 dates.... they overran a little because someone wanted to keep touring...

More money and more food.

[HeyJude]

That's a lot of stretching and assuming. It seems pretty obvious Brian wanted the reunion to continue in some form...

Just to clarify, are you assuming that Brian wanted the reunion to continue from Brian's insightful and telling quote, "I'm bummed"?

Sure, that's part of it. I assume if he's bummed about Mike going back to his old touring lineup, that implies he wants the current lineup to continue in some sort of form, and does not want it to continue with Mike doing his own touring thing. Also, Rolling Stone reported the following:

However, Brian Wilson seemed optimistic about continuing with the band. When asked recently what his future plans were, Wilson told Rolling Stone, "I want to continue touring with the Beach Boys indefinitely." Still, Wilson was unsure of the possibilities of that happening. "I don't know. I really don't know. I just know I'm going to continue to tour with them," he said.

Again, to me, that doesn't state precisely what Brian wants or envisions, but indicates he didn't want the reunion to end.

Also, I weigh accordingly the mention by Jon Stebbins of additional reunion bookings that Brian/Al/David reportedly wanted to do and Mike reportedly did not.

All of this doesn't add up to any kind of ironclad proof. But if somebody out there really believes any mention of Brian wanting to continue the reunion is just a complete fabrication is just stretching this a bit too thin. Yes, people speak for Brian (as they do all of these guys apparently), and Brian's words are not always exactly precise. But all of the evidence points to Brian wanting more reuntion activity and Mike not so much at this time.

[HeyJude]

Brian could have reunited the band years ago.  Brian wrote those songs for "Radio" back in 1998 with a plan to use them in the future.  It took him years to get to that point. In the meantime, he reached the age of 70, as did Al, and Mike is 71.  So, why didn't Brian plan better and start on the reunion a few years ago, when  they were all younger and it would have been easier to plan a schedule of two years breaks in between touring?  Just saying.  Yeah, I know Brian had a great solo career to think about, like doing "Smile," not to mention covers of Disney songs.

This has nothing to do with the current state of affairs as it pertains to the reunion that *actually* took place and could continue to.

All of the BB's, maybe some more than others, are to blame for not getting their s*** together and working together sooner, and more often. Brian was hesitant for a long time, clearly. Al has been pining for it for awhile now.

Point is, they all actually made it happen this year. If Mike wanted to work with Brian in 1998 or whatever, and Brian didn't, then that's to some degree on Brian. Similarly, if Brian wants to keep the reunion together now and Mike doesn't, that's not to some degree on Mike. I would argue continuing the present reunion after all of the groundwork (both interpersonally and functionally/logistically) has been laid is less of an undertaking compared to trying to reunite the band from scratch in 1998 in the middle of lawsuits and in the immediate aftermath of Carl's death.

[EthanJames]

I read some of the comments made On ML facebook page, It's like reading something on Lil Wayne's page lol, but anyhow it was only two days when yahoo said Brian, Al and Dave weren't going to continue touring, then a day later they stated Brian was fired and then all hell broke loose after that. Anyhow the reunion tour this year was amazing, I witness them perform in Central Park, what an amazing experience it was! Let us see what next year will bring

[the professor]

someone please start a thread called  "credible published information about the status of the BB post reunion."

[Dave in KC]

Dream On

[Jonathan Blum]

Yes the announcement was on the 17th, Howie posted it here. To me the stink didn't start until the "fired" press got traction and the fan petition got official links from the 23rd to the 26th. Maybe I've got the dates wrong or maybe our mileage will vary.

Our mileage definitely does vary.  But the story had already hit CNN on the 23rd.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Cam Mott]

Yes the announcement was on the 17th, Howie posted it here. To me the stink didn't start until the "fired" press got traction and the fan petition got official links from the 23rd to the 26th. Maybe I've got the dates wrong or maybe our mileage will vary.

Our mileage definitely does vary.  But the story had already hit CNN on the 23rd.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Yes.

[Jonathan Blum]

Didn't someone who was backstage at the Australian reunion gigs say that one of Brian's band members said that Brian planned to return to Australia some time in the next year and play as a solo act?

I think that's a slightly enlarged version of something Probyn said... which was very much in the terms of "maybe" and "possibly", and "soon" rather than "next year".

I think we all knew that Brian wasn't going to be doing the endless roadtrip; his plan was clearly to go home for a while, kick back, and hopefully work on a new album, while keeping the option of another batch of Beach Boys gigs open.  Maybe there'll be another solo tour, maybe not...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[runnersdialzero]

On ML facebook page, It's like reading something on Lil Wayne's page

So true.

My God. What have we become...?

[Nicko]

Why would Brian or anybody have to sign up for 100 shows? Why couldn't Mike just do the reunion gigs, whether 50 or 75 or more, and committ to no non-reunion shows until 2013, whether the reunion ended in July or September or whenever? A lot of comments seem to be predicated on the idea that Mike *has* to keep booking shows throughout the years. That is at least part of the reason that is leading to some of the negative characterizations of him, that he can't just leave the band's name alone for a few months. Yes, I know why he wants to keep going; it's the same reason he didn't want to take, say, some or all of 1998 to get past Carl's death, and so on. He does what he wants to do, what he feels is best. That's fine, but I don't think anyone should be surprised that it leaves him open to criticism if he needs to wring every bit of revenue out of the band's name as he can.

It's just not a realistic idea is it...

If Mike had agreed not to tour with Bruce this year then his expectation would have been that it would have cost him a large amount of money.

As the tour was scheduled to end in August he would also have been envisaging having to spend months off the road.

Plus the band and crew members( including his son) may not have been too happy at having to sit around for a year.

He can't have been certain that the reunion was going to go without a hitch anyway.

If you add the factor that Mike in many ways probably prefers playing in a band with guys he has no issues with and where it's easier for him to get women then I don't think it was ever realistic at all.

[John Manning]

Why would Brian or anybody have to sign up for 100 shows? Why couldn't Mike just do the reunion gigs, whether 50 or 75 or more, and committ to no non-reunion shows until 2013, whether the reunion ended in July or September or whenever? A lot of comments seem to be predicated on the idea that Mike *has* to keep booking shows throughout the years. That is at least part of the reason that is leading to some of the negative characterizations of him, that he can't just leave the band's name alone for a few months. Yes, I know why he wants to keep going; it's the same reason he didn't want to take, say, some or all of 1998 to get past Carl's death, and so on. He does what he wants to do, what he feels is best. That's fine, but I don't think anyone should be surprised that it leaves him open to criticism if he needs to wring every bit of revenue out of the band's name as he can.

It's just not a realistic idea is it...

If Mike had agreed not to tour with Bruce this year then his expectation would have been that it would have cost him a large amount of money.

As the tour was scheduled to end in August he would also have been envisaging having to spend months off the road.

Plus the band and crew members( including his son) may not have been too happy at having to sit around for a year.

He can't have been certain that the reunion was going to go without a hitch anyway.

If you add the factor that Mike in many ways probably prefers playing in a band with guys he has no issues with and where it's easier for him to get women then I don't think it was ever realistic at all.

I think you're right -  far as Mike's concerned, he's just gone back to the coal face to earn a buck.  His tour probably never raked in millions but for his band members it must provide a reasonable living.  Never thought of Mike as a caring employer before…!