What Won't be released

[punkinhead]

So, of all the rumors going around with what's going to be in the forthcoming box set, I'd like to start a list of items from "rarities" that some may own that we know won't ever be officially released:\

-the Lost Hotel Tapes (with BW, Stamos, Bruce, Jeff Foskett)
-We Gotta Groove (unless something new pops up with some more lyrics)
-Honda 55
-Stella By Starlight
-How Deep is the Ocean?
-Over the Waves (Carnival)
-Lookin' Down the Coast (original).
-Chopsticks Boogie
-Santa Ana Winds (original)
-Michael Row The Boat Ashore
-Lady Lynda (original)
-Everybody Wants To Live
-Beginning of the End
-Back Home (sunflower outtake)
-Black Widow
-Hey little Tomboy (original)
-Marilyn Rovell
-Pretty much any Sweet Insanity material
-Lazy Lizzie
-Silly Walls
-I'm Begging You Please
-Teardrops on my Bed
-That Special Feeling
-the piano Love You demos
-I Sleep Alone
-Any leftover Gary Usher (80s) material
-All Of My Love
-Out in the Country

[Andrew G. Doe]

Never say never. These are The Beach Boys, after all.

[hypehat]

I see no reason why a few of those wouldn't be released?

Out In The Country would be a great thing to put out in pristine quality, and they could fade it before whoever's on the organ futzs with the chords.

The Love You demos could potentially see release again if the tape source were better - it'd be a great way to show those songs qualities beneath the polarising production of the record.

You're right,  we wouldn't get anything that was pegged as BW solo material.

Why do you reckon we wouldn't get Back Home? Outside of the fact it's not very interesting.

Again, I think any BW piano demos from the later period would be a shoe in if the tape sources were decent. And I know people hate on I'm Begging You Please, but if it was finished it would be great.


I reckon we won't see any Blondie/Ricky material. Hopefully that won't mean they will deny us Carry Me Home, but we certainly won't get Hard Times or a studio We Got Love.

I think any material pegged as solo would be out. Which means a lot of late-period Denny. I think his early 70's stuff would be on there though, as he never actually made it solo then.

Rollin' Up To Heaven. Unless they edit a certain vocal track.....

[over and over]

Their are some pretty awkward moments on the full "Lost Hotel Tapes". My copy had some parts that was fast-forwarded through, I guess there was a few parts that was REALLY awkward. But I still think its the greatest boot I own. If they did release it, it would have to be heavily edited I think. Plus they would have to find the original tape it was filmed on.

[punkinhead]

I see no reason why a few of those wouldn't be released?

Out In The Country would be a great thing to put out in pristine quality, and they could fade it before whoever's on the organ futzs with the chords.

The Love You demos could potentially see release again if the tape source were better - it'd be a great way to show those songs qualities beneath the polarising production of the record.

You're right,  we wouldn't get anything that was pegged as BW solo material.

Why do you reckon we wouldn't get Back Home? Outside of the fact it's not very interesting.

Again, I think any BW piano demos from the later period would be a shoe in if the tape sources were decent. And I know people hate on I'm Begging You Please, but if it was finished it would be great.


I reckon we won't see any Blondie/Ricky material. Hopefully that won't mean they will deny us Carry Me Home, but we certainly won't get Hard Times or a studio We Got Love.

I think any material pegged as solo would be out. Which means a lot of late-period Denny. I think his early 70's stuff would be on there though, as he never actually made it solo then.

Rollin' Up To Heaven. Unless they edit a certain vocal track.....

Why not the studio We Got Love?

Honestly, some of what I posted was just a guess and a stab away from just getting some discussion going on some rare tracks and see what folks really thought of the songs. I honestly think Back Home (early 60s cut & sunflower cut) is totally a shoe in. And really, I'd love to see it all released, but I was just trying to be realistic, something a BB fan such as myself never does.

[punkinhead]

Their are some pretty awkward moments on the full "Lost Hotel Tapes". My copy had some parts that was fast-forwarded through, I guess there was a few parts that was REALLY awkward. But I still think its the greatest boot I own. If they did release it, it would have to be heavily edited I think. Plus they would have to find the original tape it was filmed on.

What parts are awkward? I'd love to hear/read some examples. What would they edit?

[over and over]

Their are some pretty awkward moments on the full "Lost Hotel Tapes". My copy had some parts that was fast-forwarded through, I guess there was a few parts that was REALLY awkward. But I still think its the greatest boot I own. If they did release it, it would have to be heavily edited I think. Plus they would have to find the original tape it was filmed on.

What parts are awkward? I'd love to hear/read some examples. What would they edit?

I haven't looked at it in awhile, but there are some parts where Brian gets kinda heated with Jeff cuz he keeps asking Brian to play songs he can't remember. They might have to edit Landy's people yelling for Brian to go to bed. I'll have to watch the tape again since its been awhile, but I do remember it was a real treat seeing Brian teach everyone "Please Let Me Wonder".

[Bill M]

Most of that stuff has already been booted, & drawing on past experience, a lot of the previously booted stuff often does seem to get official release - eventually.  What I think we're not likely to see is the Caribou era stuff that hasn't already come out & the Beachago live stuff from '75.  I'm thinking that JWG has this stuff under lock & key.  Also, I don't think any of the live shows that were recorded for  TBBIC will come out.  Record company probably believes that the  general public doesn't have any interest in this since most of it already exists on TBBIC.  Of course, we diehards would love this stuff.

[Jason Penick]

So, of all the rumors going around with what's going to be in the forthcoming box set, I'd like to start a list of items from "rarities" that some may own that we know won't ever be officially released:\

-Over the Waves (Carnival)
-Lookin' Down the Coast (original).
-Chopsticks Boogie
-Santa Ana Winds (original)
-Michael Row The Boat Ashore
-Lady Lynda (original)
-Everybody Wants To Live
-Back Home (sunflower outtake)
-Black Widow
-Marilyn Rovell
-Pretty much any Sweet Insanity material
-Any leftover Gary Usher (80s) material
-All Of My Love
-Out in the Country

I think there's at least a chance any of these could come out at some point. Why not?

-Teardrops on my Bed

What's this? Has it been leaked?

[Mikie]

What's this? Has it been leaked?

Yes!  Where ya been Jason, joining the Occupy movement in Oakland? 

[Jason Penick]

What's this? Has it been leaked?

Yes!  Where ya been Jason, joining the Occupy movement in Oakland? 

Haha, noooo! I went down there to check it out once and that was enough. Way too chaotic. While I support them on their core beliefs as defined on the Occupy Wiki page, what you've essentially got at the protests are people who are mad about anything and everything, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't (shutting down Port of Oakland for example). But it was basically a big f*** the police rally when I was there, which obviously lead to protestors being tear gassed and all that sh*t. No thanks.

Anyway, rather than derail the thread, my answer to the original question is: "Battle Hymn of the Republic". It'll be a cold day in hell before that song shows up on a Brother-sanctioned release!

[Mikie]

Completely agree with ya on the Occupy movement. Any exuse to start poo. Just like the Bart cop killing of the black kid. Seems like Oakland's the central point now for kiddies to come into town and bust out windows and cop cars and other personal property. Nothing else to do so they think they'll get media attention causing property damage and general mayhem.

"Teardrops On My Head" a.k.a. "Drip Drop" is up on YouTube.  Grab it there or I'll PM you a link to the file tonight if you'd like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS_uO7hVOn8

[SurfRiderHawaii]

"Michael Row The Boat Ashore" sounds to me like it could have been a "Pet Sounds" out-take.

Iʻd be putting it on the boxset if it were up to me.

[Jason Penick]

Completely agree with ya on the Occupy movement. Any exuse to start merda. Just like the Bart cop killing of the black kid. Seems like Oakland's the central point now for kiddies to come into town and bust out windows and cop cars and other personal property. Nothing else to do so they think they'll get media attention causing property damage and general mayhem.

"Teardrops On My Head" a.k.a. "Drip Drop" is up on YouTube.  Grab it there or I'll PM you a link to the file tonight if you'd like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS_uO7hVOn8

Ohh, "Drip Drop"... Yeah, I've got that already, but thanks! 

I agree with "Michael Row Your Boat"; I think that's a great track.

[Summer_Days]

'Battle Hymn of the Republic'. I seriously doubt this.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

'Battle Hymn of the Republic'. I seriously doubt this.

Agree.  Unless Mike's not in on the joke yet.

[Quzi]

'Battle Hymn of the Republic' might work if the powers that be decided to fly-in some of the laughter from Sonny love vs. Cassius Wilson  

[rn57]

Well, moving back to the topic, of what material is there, or maybe not....

As I mentioned before, some time ago I found out that Tandyn Almer, for several years, has been a member of that social-media site everybody belongs to that isn't Twitter, writing in the public mode so that everyone logged in the site can read his posts. (Though he does have a Twitter account which he has never Tweeted on.)

As I wrote at the thread concerning "Then I'll Be Someone," until recently he made almost no references to his storied past at his page, but in recent weeks, apparently in an effort to get buzz going about the release of his demo album as a Sundazed CD, whenever that happens, he has started to post about his musical work of the 60s and early 70s - for example, when someone put up the Youtube clip of David Cassidy singing TIBS on his page, he replied that he had finished the song just as he met Brian in '71, that it was intended to be recorded by Spring but that didn't happen, and that he sold the tune's publishing to Carl for money to go to Hawaii with. (Which may be why Carl is listed as its cowriter in that banana-and-louie.org inventory.)

Well...a few weeks back TA set up another page at the same site, the purpose of which is unclear - it may be intended for his social-media doings apart from what he is using his usual page for. He has posted nothing on it except a photo of what seems to be the cover art of a self-burned two-CD set of his recorded work. (This has all the tracks he wrote or arranged which have been discussed at this board over the years, plus a couple of obscurities that haven't been discussed, like the arrangement he did for Bobby Vee of a Bonner/Gordon tune, "Tiffany Rings.")

Marcella and SOS are on one of the CDs....but in the "about" statement TA provided for his profile on this new page - which is open to all using the site to read - he expands just a little bit. My comments are in brackets. TA's ee cummings-esque approach to capitalization is left as is:

"left home [Minneapolis according to his Wikipedia entry] at age 17 [ie, 1960] went to Chicago to study jazz with prominent musicians; got a job as houseboy & manuscript typist with Philosophy professor at UCLA at age 18. rode with him many days to use the practice rooms at Schoenberg Hall [this would seem to be 1961]. had a jazz quintet for short time. helped Doug Weston open Troubadour II, a folk music club to Troubadour I, a jazz club. learned to play bass & accompanied several acts e.g. Linda Ronstadt [this must have been just after she got to LA and got Stone Poneys going], Odetta, Mason Williams with whom i traveled for several months. in late 1964 took LSD & began to write lyrics to songs i had been developing. first attempt resulted in Association hit, Along Comes Mary. (later hit was by the Bloodhound Gang [which was a #6 single in Germany in '99].) met Brian Wilson in 1971 & had about 30 titles with him but only hits were Sail on Sailor written with Van Dyke Parks & more i can't remember. left LA in 1975 to work on filmscore in Wash DC, then became interested in writing musical comedy & dance for the stage."

Before we get to that number 30....I think TA meant to say that he helped open a Troubadour jazz club in the early '60s, since the folk club started well before that. (In his memoirs, John Kay of Steppenwolf mentions that he first met TA at the Troubadour around 1965, in the period before the Association recorded Along Comes Mary. At that time, Kay says, TA was actually living in the club, in a room next to Doug Weston's office.)

All right. "met Brian Wilson in 1971 & had about 30 titles with him."  Note that TA writes "titles," not songs, not recordings.

 It may be that the about 27 "titles" he was involved with that were not titled Marcella, Sail On Sailor and Beatrice From Baltimore were those rewritten lyrics he, Stanley Shapiro, and Brian were working on after SOT was sold to A&M - the famous seven-inch tape that vanished from the piano bench, probably pilfered by Z. Wilson, and which may or may not have something in common with that cassette Alan Boyd mentioned locating at the board in '06. (I can never remember - were the lyrics BJ Thomas sang for his version of Don't Worry Baby from this material?)

Or maybe the "titles" are the SOT material...plus something else.  

Who can tell what he means? As I wrote on another thread, TA seems focused nowadays on his current music and the Sundazed "Along Comes Tandyn" release....he indicated in one post that if the CD stirs much interest he just might emerge from his hibernation to some degree. But anyway, if he does clarify that "titles" business in any public forum, I'll write about it here.

[runnersdialzero]

"Titles" very likely means songs or at least ideas. I doubt he and Brian just sat around thinking up song titles.

[Jim V.]

met Brian Wilson in 1971 & had about 30 titles with him but only hits were Sail on Sailor written with Van Dyke Parks & more i can't remember.

All right. "met Brian Wilson in 1971 & had about 30 titles with him."  Note that TA writes "titles," not songs, not recordings.

 It may be that the about 27 "titles" he was involved with that were not titled Marcella, Sail On Sailor and Beatrice From Baltimore were those rewritten lyrics he, Stanley Shapiro, and Brian were working on after SOT was sold to A&M - the famous seven-inch tape that vanished from the piano bench, probably pilfered by Z. Wilson, and which may or may not have something in common with that cassette Alan Boyd mentioned locating at the board in '06. (I can never remember - were the lyrics BJ Thomas sang for his version of Don't Worry Baby from this material?)

Or maybe the "titles" are the SOT material...plus something else.  

I personally don't think that the rewritten Sea of Tunes material is what he is talking about, but maybe it is. I also gotta say I find it extremely hard to believe that he and Brian collaborated on 30 pieces, as everywhere else it has pretty much been said that Brian doing all that much, outside of drugs and occasionally working with Tandyn Almer, David Sandler, Van Dyke on "Sail On, Sailor", etc. My guess is that he might be taking account of songs that they were working upon separately and showed to each other, to add up to 30. But regardless, I'd have to imagine that there might be a few "B. Wilson/T. Almer" songs in the vaults that we don't know of. "Rooftop Harry" possibly?

I think one of us should ask what some of the titles he worked on Brian with were. Obviously, he'd probably mention "Marcella", "Beatrice From Baltimore", and "Sail On, Sailor", but it'd be interesting to see if he mentioned any other titles we might already be familiar with, which would indicate their genesis may have been from Brian's time with Tandyn. I do wonder however that if there is anything unreleased that got recorded would get the go-ahead from Brother since Tandyn isn't exactly thought of as a great person in their circle still.

[rn57]

Well....in Tandyn Almer's case, when he's been asked a question on his page about his pre-BBs work he's sometimes answered with some detail. As I mentioned at the other thread he gave his explanation of why Curt Boettcher's name was not on "Along Comes Mary," which is something I never expected to read. 

But the BBs and Brian may be different. I noticed that at his page someone who was commenting on the clip of Cassidy singing Then I'll Be Someone remarked that "I'd heard you and Brian wrote a bunch of material," but that didn't lead TA to elaborate.  He did say some interesting things about TIBS - that "a track" for it had been done in Brian's studio when it was being considered for Spring, although from what he wrote, it sounded as if Marilyn and Diane never did vocals. And he added that "Carl wanted to do it," which suggests Carl had it in mind as a possible BBs song so that may have led to his acquiring the publishing.

TA's reference to "30 titles" with Brian certainly can't refer to recordings or to songs. He was closely involved with Brian for a pretty short time - as far as I can tell, starting in the summer of '71, or sometime right before then, and ending sometime before the guys going to Holland in summer '72. (His page mentions that in '72 he started attending UCLA's Experimental College - a "free university" full of New Age-ish courses - and was there for two years.)

 TA could write in bulk, so to speak - by himself and with collaborators he did about three dozen songs when he was a staff writer at Irving Music between Dec. '66 or so and Jan. '68.  But Brian couldn't have been in any shape to finish 30 songs in '71-'72. About the only thing I could figure this could mean, if not the rewritten lyrics done with Brian and Shapiro, would be primarily a few stray lines here, a bit of chorus or a couple of verses there, which got a working title.

It should be noted that TA seems to some degree to live up, or down, to his spaced-out rep. I did send him a message a few weeks ago - not concerning the BBs or Brian.  He replied a week later, in a quite genial tone, and some of what he said was on point regarding what I wrote - but a lot of his answer seemed to be a reply to either something somebody else had written to him, or even an answer to something he thought I'd written that I hadn't.  My impression is that whenever Sundazed gets his CD out, he could be up for interviews of some kind...but at this point he seems to waver between being Info-providing Tandyn and the traditional Elusive Tandyn. So we'll just have to wait and see which one comes to the fore.

[rn57]

Though, all that said - whenever I see an unreleased, un-booted title dating from mid-'71 to mid '72, which does not bear a self-evident connection to the list of Love and/or Riely- Approved Lyrical Subjects at that time (TM/World Peace, Environment, Evolution, Revolution, Togetherness, etc) but seems to veer toward mean streets, petty crime, hookers, strippers, and narcotics, I start thinking about possible Almer involvement. "Rooftop Harry," "Burlesque," etc.

[MBE]

So, of all the rumors going around with what's going to be in the forthcoming box set, I'd like to start a list of items from "rarities" that some may own that we know won't ever be officially released:\

-the Lost Hotel Tapes (with BW, Stamos, Bruce, Jeff Foskett)
-We Gotta Groove (unless something new pops up with some more lyrics)
-Honda 55
-Stella By Starlight
-How Deep is the Ocean?
-Over the Waves (Carnival)
-Lookin' Down the Coast (original).
-Chopsticks Boogie
-Santa Ana Winds (original)
-Michael Row The Boat Ashore
-Lady Lynda (original)
-Everybody Wants To Live
-Beginning of the End
-Back Home (sunflower outtake)
-Black Widow
-Hey little Tomboy (original)
-Marilyn Rovell
-Pretty much any Sweet Insanity material
-Lazy Lizzie
-Silly Walls
-I'm Begging You Please
-Teardrops on my Bed
-That Special Feeling
-the piano Love You demos
-I Sleep Alone
-Any leftover Gary Usher (80s) material
-All Of My Love
-Out in the Country

Of these I bet the following will come out one day
 -We Gotta Groove
-Honda 55
-Over the Waves (Carnival)
-Lookin' Down the Coast (original).
--Santa Ana Winds (original)
-Michael Row The Boat Ashore
-Lady Lynda (original)
-Everybody Wants To Live
-Beginning of the End
-Back Home (sunflower outtake)
-Silly Walls
-All Of My Love
-Out in the Country
 
 

[tansen]

I'd say that the original versions of 'Santa Ana Winds' and 'Looking Down the Coast' are definite contenders for the box set.

[Cabinessenceking]

Loop De Loop was released, in two different forms even. This forms the basis of my argument that anything might show up on the box.